[google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[timh]

Do you have billing enabled ?
idle instance can be shut down at any point where their count is above min 
idle.  What sort of settings are you running ?

I have a low traffic site with billing usually 1 or 2 reserved instances 
(depending on the time of the week.)  All content is dynamic (though cached 
by memcache) and not seeing any problems at all.

T



On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:23:35 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have the application "yumyumlabs" and all of my users are complaining 
> about "slowness" or broken connections.
>
> To my surprise I went to the appengine console to see that my instances 
> were dying out of nothing. No releases were made on my side and this seems 
> a new behavior. This happening for a week already and I have tried *
> everything*.
>
> I was hopping that this was temporary, but as it turns out it's not. This 
> is the issue: http://code.google.com/p/**googleappengine/issues/detail?**
> id=8781 
>
> Can anyone tell me if this will be a new permanent state? All the 
> datastore applications will continue to be this slow? 
>
> I must take actions ASAP. The current service quality is unbearable. 
>
> thanks
> rafael
>

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[google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[stevep]

Quite some time ago I started a thread about instances for my paid app 
shutting down quickly (almost immediately). Same issue I believe. Perhaps 
it is working differently now, but I would be hesitant to conclude that 
this will stop occurring once billing is activated. It seems quite 
variable, so I am not suggesting timh is wrong. Perhaps it is a function of 
how busy other apps are in one's slice of GAE's virtualized pie.  As noted, 
this question was posted a good time ago, and has been followed by many 
similar questions asked by many devs affected by this. I would also be 
hesitant to suggest this pattern will quit repeating or that we will be 
given any insights about it from G. I think the last big thread on 
this (and this subject has engendered MUCHO discussion) ended with someone 
concluding that Java can not be used for low-volume GAE apps given this 
issue. I am Python with fast start times, so can not offer insights when 
spin up times are slow, but do sympathize.

On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:34:17 AM UTC-7, timh wrote:
>
> Do you have billing enabled ?
> idle instance can be shut down at any point where their count is above min 
> idle.  What sort of settings are you running ?
>
> I have a low traffic site with billing usually 1 or 2 reserved instances 
> (depending on the time of the week.)  All content is dynamic (though cached 
> by memcache) and not seeing any problems at all.
>
> T
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:23:35 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have the application "yumyumlabs" and all of my users are complaining 
>> about "slowness" or broken connections.
>>
>> To my surprise I went to the appengine console to see that my instances 
>> were dying out of nothing. No releases were made on my side and this seems 
>> a new behavior. This happening for a week already and I have tried *
>> everything*.
>>
>> I was hopping that this was temporary, but as it turns out it's not. This 
>> is the issue: http://code.google.com/p/**googleappengine/issues/detail?**
>> id=8781 
>>
>> Can anyone tell me if this will be a new permanent state? All the 
>> datastore applications will continue to be this slow? 
>>
>> I must take actions ASAP. The current service quality is unbearable. 
>>
>> thanks
>> rafael
>>
>

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[google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Vinny P]

Can you screenshot an AppStats profile view of a sample request?

-Vinny

On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:23:35 AM UTC-5, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have the application "yumyumlabs" and all of my users are complaining 
> about "slowness" or broken connections.
>
> To my surprise I went to the appengine console to see that my instances 
> were dying out of nothing. No releases were made on my side and this seems 
> a new behavior. This happening for a week already and I have tried *
> everything*.
>
> I was hopping that this was temporary, but as it turns out it's not. This 
> is the issue: http://code.google.com/p/**googleappengine/issues/detail?**
> id=8781 
>
> Can anyone tell me if this will be a new permanent state? All the 
> datastore applications will continue to be this slow? 
>
> I must take actions ASAP. The current service quality is unbearable. 
>
> thanks
> rafael
>

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[google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[stevep]

I am uncertain about GAE given recent history, but have hope. Certainly 
given MS is deprecated, we cannot hold G. accountable for issues there. 
They **clearly** recommend HR, so MS app are 100% caveat emptor. However, 
the SO and Google Groups threads recently have been consumed with ire not 
limited to MS. A while ago, Jeff S. (whose posts I value the most along 
with Drake) posited that G. would have fixed the issues had they been able 
to do so. Going way back (when I started with GAE) billing was based on CPU 
milliseconds consumed. My guess is they thought this was highly disruptive. 
Then after beta, we got billed for 15 minute instance slices which was a 
big change from beta. This suggest that the initial assumptions were wrong 
(sh*t happens sometimes even if you are the brightest bulb in the pack). 
Overall, I think Jeff is right. There are some problems that can not be 
fixed given GAE's initial architecture. However, there may be some big 
changes coming with the App>Server architecture that only trusted devs (me 
excluded) get to enjoy. As I read the limited docs about what this entails, 
I wonder if this will be a fundamental change for GAE. It appears to fix 
most of my complaints, so I will be happy.

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[google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[John V Denley]

My Application has been charged TEN TIMES as much every week since mid 
february. I have changed NOTHING and I have NO extra customers and NO extra 
traffic everything has been stable apart from the fact that my CPU 
times have dramatically increased since we started having these instance 
warm up/hard deadline exceeded issues...

Below are my charges, as you can see, a fairly stable $2(ish) per week 
before 11th Feb and since then SIGNIFICANTLY higher charges, and NOTHING 
has changed at my end!!

2013-03-25 12:55:21Charge Cleared($25.74)$0.00 2013-03-18 16:11:03Charge 
Cleared($19.67)$0.00 2013-03-11 13:01:14Charge Cleared($6.85)$0.00 2013-03-04 
13:58:43Charge Cleared($6.94)$0.00 2013-02-25 13:01:18Charge Cleared($13.16)
$0.00 2013-02-18 13:00:10Charge Cleared($9.06)$0.00 2013-02-11 13:02:06Charge 
Cleared($20.42)$0.00 2013-02-04 12:49:39Charge Cleared($2.30)$0.00 2013-01-28 
12:48:57Charge Cleared($2.10)$0.00 2013-01-21 12:52:44Charge Cleared($2.10)
$0.00 2013-01-14 12:48:24Charge Cleared($2.10)$0.00 2013-01-07 12:50:48Charge 
Cleared($2.10)$0.00 2012-12-31 12:59:44Charge Cleared($2.10)$0.00 2012-12-24 
13:02:54Charge Cleared($2.10)$0.00 2012-12-17 13:05:47Charge Cleared($2.10)
$0.00 2012-12-10 13:01:34Charge Cleared($2.10)$0.00 2012-12-03 15:09:00Charge 
Cleared($2.64)$0.00 2012-11-26 12:59:38Charge Cleared($2.10)$0.00 2012-11-19 
13:08:04Charge Cleared($2.10)$0.00 2012-11-12 13:01:26Charge Cleared($2.10)
$0.00 

On Thursday, 14 March 2013 04:39:38 UTC, stevep wrote:
>
> I am uncertain about GAE given recent history, but have hope. Certainly 
> given MS is deprecated, we cannot hold G. accountable for issues there. 
> They **clearly** recommend HR, so MS app are 100% caveat emptor. However, 
> the SO and Google Groups threads recently have been consumed with ire not 
> limited to MS. A while ago, Jeff S. (whose posts I value the most along 
> with Drake) posited that G. would have fixed the issues had they been able 
> to do so. Going way back (when I started with GAE) billing was based on CPU 
> milliseconds consumed. My guess is they thought this was highly disruptive. 
> Then after beta, we got billed for 15 minute instance slices which was a 
> big change from beta. This suggest that the initial assumptions were wrong 
> (sh*t happens sometimes even if you are the brightest bulb in the pack). 
> Overall, I think Jeff is right. There are some problems that can not be 
> fixed given GAE's initial architecture. However, there may be some big 
> changes coming with the App>Server architecture that only trusted devs (me 
> excluded) get to enjoy. As I read the limited docs about what this entails, 
> I wonder if this will be a fundamental change for GAE. It appears to fix 
> most of my complaints, so I will be happy.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Rafael]

Yes, I have a lot of traffic. Out of nothing the instances die and new ones
come up. Check out this screenshot: http://cl.ly/image/3e1W1a1d0V3A

Please, see that some instances are up for more than an hour and a half.
Although, many new ones are spawned.

You're running on HDR? The may be related to datastore.

thanks
rafa


On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:34 AM, timh  wrote:

> Do you have billing enabled ?
> idle instance can be shut down at any point where their count is above min
> idle.  What sort of settings are you running ?
>
> I have a low traffic site with billing usually 1 or 2 reserved instances
> (depending on the time of the week.)  All content is dynamic (though cached
> by memcache) and not seeing any problems at all.
>
> T
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:23:35 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have the application "yumyumlabs" and all of my users are complaining
>> about "slowness" or broken connections.
>>
>> To my surprise I went to the appengine console to see that my instances
>> were dying out of nothing. No releases were made on my side and this seems
>> a new behavior. This happening for a week already and I have tried *
>> everything*.
>>
>> I was hopping that this was temporary, but as it turns out it's not. This
>> is the issue: http://code.google.com/**p/**googleappengine/issues/**
>> detail?**id=8781
>>
>> Can anyone tell me if this will be a new permanent state? All the
>> datastore applications will continue to be this slow?
>>
>> I must take actions ASAP. The current service quality is unbearable.
>>
>> thanks
>> rafael
>>
>  --
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>
>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Jeff Schnitzer]

As an experiment, try getting rid of the resident instances and go
with Automatic - Automatic.  It's been a while since I last touched
those buttons, but I had very bad results whenever I configure a lower
bound.

Jeff

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Rafael  wrote:
> Yes, I have a lot of traffic. Out of nothing the instances die and new ones
> come up. Check out this screenshot: http://cl.ly/image/3e1W1a1d0V3A
>
> Please, see that some instances are up for more than an hour and a half.
> Although, many new ones are spawned.
>
> You're running on HDR? The may be related to datastore.
>
> thanks
> rafa
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:34 AM, timh  wrote:
>>
>> Do you have billing enabled ?
>> idle instance can be shut down at any point where their count is above min
>> idle.  What sort of settings are you running ?
>>
>> I have a low traffic site with billing usually 1 or 2 reserved instances
>> (depending on the time of the week.)  All content is dynamic (though cached
>> by memcache) and not seeing any problems at all.
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:23:35 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have the application "yumyumlabs" and all of my users are complaining
>>> about "slowness" or broken connections.
>>>
>>> To my surprise I went to the appengine console to see that my instances
>>> were dying out of nothing. No releases were made on my side and this seems a
>>> new behavior. This happening for a week already and I have tried everything.
>>>
>>> I was hopping that this was temporary, but as it turns out it's not. This
>>> is the issue: http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=8781
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me if this will be a new permanent state? All the
>>> datastore applications will continue to be this slow?
>>>
>>> I must take actions ASAP. The current service quality is unbearable.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> rafael
>>
>> --
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>> "Google App Engine" group.
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>> email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
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>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[timh]

Hi

I am using HRD and usually my resident instances are many days old, however 
today I have one resident instance 2 hours old, 1 dynamic instance 2 hours 
old, and a dynamic instance 1.5 days old ;-)

T

On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:06:15 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>
> Yes, I have a lot of traffic. Out of nothing the instances die and new 
> ones come up. Check out this screenshot: http://cl.ly/image/3e1W1a1d0V3A
>
> Please, see that some instances are up for more than an hour and a half. 
> Although, many new ones are spawned. 
>
> You're running on HDR? The may be related to datastore.
>
> thanks
> rafa
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:34 AM, timh >wrote:
>
>> Do you have billing enabled ?
>> idle instance can be shut down at any point where their count is above 
>> min idle.  What sort of settings are you running ?
>>
>> I have a low traffic site with billing usually 1 or 2 reserved instances 
>> (depending on the time of the week.)  All content is dynamic (though cached 
>> by memcache) and not seeing any problems at all.
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:23:35 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have the application "yumyumlabs" and all of my users are complaining 
>>> about "slowness" or broken connections.
>>>
>>> To my surprise I went to the appengine console to see that my instances 
>>> were dying out of nothing. No releases were made on my side and this seems 
>>> a new behavior. This happening for a week already and I have tried *
>>> everything*.
>>>
>>> I was hopping that this was temporary, but as it turns out it's not. 
>>> This is the issue: http://code.google.com/**p/**googleappengine/issues/*
>>> *detail?**id=8781
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me if this will be a new permanent state? All the 
>>> datastore applications will continue to be this slow? 
>>>
>>> I must take actions ASAP. The current service quality is unbearable. 
>>>
>>>  thanks
>>> rafael
>>>
>>  -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to google-appengi...@googlegroups.com .
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>> google-a...@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>  
>>  
>>
>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[timh]

Are you running M/S ?

I just had a look at a different app I have access to on M/S (has large 
numbers of users) and it appears to be cycling instances fast, and long 
startup times.

T

On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:58:22 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>
> You are living the dream my brother. Check this out: 
> http://cl.ly/image/3F0m2c3T1b3D
>
> It's a screenshot from right now. Please, notice that there's two brave 
> instances that are 1:40 hours old, although we have over 15 that are dying 
> randomly. 
>
> The best thing is that I am paying a lot for those 15 randomy dying. Also, 
> my 10 million user app is quickly dying just like the instances.. it's 
> beautiful. 
>
>  Alright, 3 days without sleeping. I officially tried everything possible 
> on my side. Now it's just pray for google to fix it.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:06 PM, timh >wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I am using HRD and usually my resident instances are many days old, 
>> however today I have one resident instance 2 hours old, 1 dynamic instance 
>> 2 hours old, and a dynamic instance 1.5 days old ;-)
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:06:15 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I have a lot of traffic. Out of nothing the instances die and new 
>>> ones come up. Check out this screenshot: http://cl.ly/**
>>> image/3e1W1a1d0V3A 
>>>
>>> Please, see that some instances are up for more than an hour and a half. 
>>> Although, many new ones are spawned. 
>>>
>>> You're running on HDR? The may be related to datastore.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> rafa
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:34 AM, timh  wrote:
>>>
 Do you have billing enabled ?
 idle instance can be shut down at any point where their count is above 
 min idle.  What sort of settings are you running ?

 I have a low traffic site with billing usually 1 or 2 reserved 
 instances (depending on the time of the week.)  All content is dynamic 
 (though cached by memcache) and not seeing any problems at all.

 T



 On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:23:35 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have the application "yumyumlabs" and all of my users are 
> complaining about "slowness" or broken connections.
>
> To my surprise I went to the appengine console to see that my 
> instances were dying out of nothing. No releases were made on my side and 
> this seems a new behavior. This happening for a week already and I have 
> tried *everything*.
>
> I was hopping that this was temporary, but as it turns out it's not. 
> This is the issue: http://code.google.com/p/**
> googleappengine/issues/**detai**l?**id=8781
>
> Can anyone tell me if this will be a new permanent state? All the 
> datastore applications will continue to be this slow? 
>
> I must take actions ASAP. The current service quality is unbearable. 
>
>  thanks
> rafael
>
  -- 
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 Groups "Google App Engine" group.
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 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**
 group/google-appengine?hl=en
 .
 For more options, visit 
 https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out
 .
  
  

>>>
>>>  -- 
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>>  
>>  
>>
>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Cesium]

You read the previous posts on this right?

You are complaining about instances lasting an hour?

I'd sacrifice my prize unicorn to get that!
When service goes pear shaped, instances last seconds!

Yes. This behavior will change.
No. You can't predict when the change will occur.
No. There's nothing (effective) you can do.
No. You won't get a response from G.
Yes. You will get used to shoveling unicorn poo.
Yes. It looks like little piles of rainbows.

David

On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:36:44 AM UTC-6, Rafael Sanches wrote:
> YES! I'm on the master/slave. 
> 
> 
> Google putting a message at the top of the appengine site saying that it's 
> deprecated isn't an excuse for extreme reduction of performance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Migrating to HDR will never happen to me. This is frustrating. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 2:20 AM, timh  wrote:
> 
> 
> Are you running M/S ?
> 
> 
> I just had a look at a different app I have access to on M/S (has large 
> numbers of users) and it appears to be cycling instances fast, and long 
> startup times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:58:22 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> You are living the dream my brother. Check this out: 
> http://cl.ly/image/3F0m2c3T1b3D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a screenshot from right now. Please, notice that there's two brave 
> instances that are 1:40 hours old, although we have over 15 that are dying 
> randomly. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best thing is that I am paying a lot for those 15 randomy dying. Also, my 
> 10 million user app is quickly dying just like the instances.. it's 
> beautiful. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, 3 days without sleeping. I officially tried everything possible on 
> my side. Now it's just pray for google to fix it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:06 PM, timh  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> 
> I am using HRD and usually my resident instances are many days old, however 
> today I have one resident instance 2 hours old, 1 dynamic instance 2 hours 
> old, and a dynamic instance 1.5 days old ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:06:15 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have a lot of traffic. Out of nothing the instances die and new ones 
> come up. Check out this screenshot: http://cl.ly/image/3e1W1a1d0V3A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please, see that some instances are up for more than an hour and a half. 
> Although, many new ones are spawned. 
> 
> 
> You're running on HDR? The may be related to datastore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks
> rafa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:34 AM, timh  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have billing enabled ?
> idle instance can be shut down at any point where their count is above min 
> idle.  What sort of settings are you running ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a low traffic site with billing usually 1 or 2 reserved instances 
> (depending on the time of the week.)  All content is dynamic (though cached 
> by memcache) and not seeing any problems at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:23:35 PM UTC+8, Rafael Sanches wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I have the application "yumyumlabs" and all of my users are complaining about 
> "slowness" or broken connections.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my surprise I went to the appengine console to see that my instances were 
> dying out of nothing. No releases were made on my side and this seems a new 
> behavior. This happening for a week already and I have tried everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hopping that this was temporary, but as it turns out it's not. This is 
> the issue: http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=8781
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me if this will be a new permanent state? All the datastore 
> applications will continue to be this slow? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must take actions ASAP. The current service quality is unbearable. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks
> rafael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
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> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[johnP]

Barry -

If you look through this message board and at the issue tracker, you'll see 
that many people with HRD are also affected by this issue.  

As often is the case, the big problem is not the crime - it's the cover-up. 
 Everyone here can understand technical issues, if people are working to 
fix them.  The non-response from Google is what's freaking people out.




On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:31:07 AM UTC-7, barryhunter wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Rafael  >wrote:
>
>> YES! I'm on the master/slave. 
>>
>> Google putting a message at the top of the appengine site saying that 
>> it's deprecated isn't an excuse for extreme reduction of performance.
>>
>
> The depreciation pretty much is Google admitting the can't (and/or won't) 
> fix M/S. They KNOW it's bad, and want you to stop using it. 
>  
> M/S is a sinking ship. Google arent allocating much resources to bailing 
> it out. They've moved on to brighter and better things. 
>
>
>
>> Migrating to HDR will never happen to me. 
>>
>
> Then you have pretty much resigned yourself to issues. Why are you 
> pointing a loaded gun at your own foot?
>
>
>  By continuing to use M/S you making yourself and Google look bad. 
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[johnP]

Or even if Google says that there is not a technical issue; that there have 
been internal tweaks to the scheduler that make instances that (in my case) 
would happily serve for days or weeks to now serve for less than 10-15 
minutes (during a good part of the day); and that we should do a, b, and c 
to maximize performance; that would also provide some clarity.



On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:17:17 AM UTC-7, johnP wrote:
>
>
> Barry -
>
> If you look through this message board and at the issue tracker, you'll 
> see that many people with HRD are also affected by this issue.  
>
> As often is the case, the big problem is not the crime - it's the 
> cover-up.  Everyone here can understand technical issues, if people are 
> working to fix them.  The non-response from Google is what's freaking 
> people out.
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:31:07 AM UTC-7, barryhunter wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Rafael  wrote:
>>
>>> YES! I'm on the master/slave. 
>>>
>>> Google putting a message at the top of the appengine site saying that 
>>> it's deprecated isn't an excuse for extreme reduction of performance.
>>>
>>
>> The depreciation pretty much is Google admitting the can't (and/or won't) 
>> fix M/S. They KNOW it's bad, and want you to stop using it. 
>>  
>> M/S is a sinking ship. Google arent allocating much resources to bailing 
>> it out. They've moved on to brighter and better things. 
>>
>>
>>
>>> Migrating to HDR will never happen to me. 
>>>
>>
>> Then you have pretty much resigned yourself to issues. Why are you 
>> pointing a loaded gun at your own foot?
>>
>>
>>  By continuing to use M/S you making yourself and Google look bad. 
>>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[johnP]

That's you projecting your hopes, that someone is calmly fixing the 
problem.  

But one of the attributes of competent leadership is effective 
communication.  When customers see that effective communication is lacking, 
they a symptom of poor leadership. If appengine has poor leadership, this 
is an existential threat to everyone who has bet their future on this 
platform.



On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:13:03 AM UTC-7, barryhunter wrote:
>
> I didnt say there where not problems with HRD. 
>
> Just that its expected there will be problems with M/S. Google have pretty 
> much said they WONT even try to be fixing them. 
>
> Any resources Google have working on the issue, will be fixing it 
> (ultimately) within the HRD codebase. They probably wont back-port it to 
> M/S. M/S is like a live grenade just waiting to explode, they wont touch 
> it. 
>
>
> Alas its just in Googles culture to be tight-lipped about upcoming changes 
> (and that includes bug fixes) - so as you say we are just all running 
> around like headless chickens, while Google hopefully has 
> someone calmly sitting there working on the issue (we just dont know about 
> it). One day just to push it into production with little fanfare. 
>
> Google's timescale on fixing issues, is also almost certainly orders of 
> magnitude slower than most people would like. 
>
>
>
>  On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:17 PM, johnP 
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Barry -
>>
>> If you look through this message board and at the issue tracker, you'll 
>> see that many people with HRD are also affected by this issue.  
>>
>> As often is the case, the big problem is not the crime - it's the 
>> cover-up.  Everyone here can understand technical issues, if people are 
>> working to fix them.  The non-response from Google is what's freaking 
>> people out.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:31:07 AM UTC-7, barryhunter wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Rafael  wrote:
>>>
 YES! I'm on the master/slave. 

 Google putting a message at the top of the appengine site saying that 
 it's deprecated isn't an excuse for extreme reduction of performance.

>>>
>>> The depreciation pretty much is Google admitting the can't (and/or 
>>> won't) fix M/S. They KNOW it's bad, and want you to stop using it. 
>>>  
>>> M/S is a sinking ship. Google arent allocating much resources to bailing 
>>> it out. They've moved on to brighter and better things. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Migrating to HDR will never happen to me. 

>>>
>>> Then you have pretty much resigned yourself to issues. Why are you 
>>> pointing a loaded gun at your own foot?
>>>
>>>
>>>  By continuing to use M/S you making yourself and Google look bad. 
>>>
>>  -- 
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>> "Google App Engine" group.
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>> email to google-appengi...@googlegroups.com .
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>> google-a...@googlegroups.com
>> .
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>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>  
>>  
>>
>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Rafael]

This is my biggest concern. I don't care about technical problems, I care
about shipping high quality products. That was the reason why we picked
appengine 2 years ago.

The problem is that the service isn't working well and we can't predict for
how long. We need to have any insight on how long this instability will
last, so we can play ahead.

We have serialized blobs everywhere across our application. We're paying
the price for "clever optimizations". I believe it would be less work to
move out of appengine rather than moving to HDR.


On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:27 AM, johnP  wrote:

> That's you projecting your hopes, that someone is calmly fixing the
> problem.
>
> But one of the attributes of competent leadership is effective
> communication.  When customers see that effective communication is lacking,
> they a symptom of poor leadership. If appengine has poor leadership, this
> is an existential threat to everyone who has bet their future on this
> platform.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:13:03 AM UTC-7, barryhunter wrote:
>
>> I didnt say there where not problems with HRD.
>>
>> Just that its expected there will be problems with M/S. Google have
>> pretty much said they WONT even try to be fixing them.
>>
>> Any resources Google have working on the issue, will be fixing it
>> (ultimately) within the HRD codebase. They probably wont back-port it to
>> M/S. M/S is like a live grenade just waiting to explode, they wont touch
>> it.
>>
>>
>> Alas its just in Googles culture to be tight-lipped about upcoming
>> changes (and that includes bug fixes) - so as you say we are just all
>> running around like headless chickens, while Google hopefully has
>> someone calmly sitting there working on the issue (we just dont know about
>> it). One day just to push it into production with little fanfare.
>>
>> Google's timescale on fixing issues, is also almost certainly orders of
>> magnitude slower than most people would like.
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:17 PM, johnP  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Barry -
>>>
>>> If you look through this message board and at the issue tracker, you'll
>>> see that many people with HRD are also affected by this issue.
>>>
>>> As often is the case, the big problem is not the crime - it's the
>>> cover-up.  Everyone here can understand technical issues, if people are
>>> working to fix them.  The non-response from Google is what's freaking
>>> people out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:31:07 AM UTC-7, barryhunter wrote:
>>>



 On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Rafael  wrote:

> YES! I'm on the master/slave.
>
> Google putting a message at the top of the appengine site saying that
> it's deprecated isn't an excuse for extreme reduction of performance.
>

 The depreciation pretty much is Google admitting the can't (and/or
 won't) fix M/S. They KNOW it's bad, and want you to stop using it.

 M/S is a sinking ship. Google arent allocating much resources to
 bailing it out. They've moved on to brighter and better things.



> Migrating to HDR will never happen to me.
>

 Then you have pretty much resigned yourself to issues. Why are you
 pointing a loaded gun at your own foot?


  By continuing to use M/S you making yourself and Google look bad.

>>>  --
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>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
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>>>
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>>> group/google-appengine?hl=en
>>> .
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>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Barry Hunter]

 I believe it would be less work to move out of appengine rather than
> moving to HDR.
>

You will have to do one or the other soon anyway. M/S will be turned off.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Stuart Langley]

Rafael:

Here's the 
notice: 
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/masterslave-datastore-thanks-for-all.html

TOS for 
deprecation: https://developers.google.com/appengine/terms#Deprecation

M/S will be turned off 20th April, 2015.

On Thursday, 14 March 2013 15:11:45 UTC+11, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>
> Barry,
>
> Where have you read that it's going to be turned off? 
>
> All google says is: "This application is using the Master/Slave datastore 
> which is deprecated! All customers should migrate to the High-Replication 
> datastore which offers greater stability and is resilient to data center 
> failure. To learn more about migration see High Replication Datastore 
> Migration
> ."
>
> That message and nowhere in the documentation it says that it's going to 
> be turned off. It just says it offers greater stability. It doesn't mention 
> that M/S will be worst than in the past either. 
>
> thanks
> rafael
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Barry Hunter 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>  I believe it would be less work to move out of appengine rather than 
>>> moving to HDR. 
>>>
>>
>> You will have to do one or the other soon anyway. M/S will be turned off. 
>>  
>>
>> -- 
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>> .
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>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>  
>>  
>>
>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Rafael]

Stuart,

The service and it's issues are getting worst and worst as we speak:
http://cl.ly/image/2t1y2O2S2U1h (68 dying instances, just starting up by
coincidence)

Can you please give us a word about the issues? Is this going to be
happening on a constant basis? Is it only M/S affected?

By 2015 I hope to be out. Spending $40k a year on a service that I could
host for $3k isn't in my plans for long.

Please, respond. I must know if I need to migrate right now or it can wait
more time. Migrating to HDR or outside isn't in my plans at all and will
kill my startup.

thanks!
rafa


On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 4:19 AM, Stuart Langley  wrote:

> Rafael:
>
> Here's the notice:
> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/masterslave-datastore-thanks-for-all.html
>
> TOS for deprecation:
> https://developers.google.com/appengine/terms#Deprecation
>
> M/S will be turned off 20th April, 2015.
>
>
> On Thursday, 14 March 2013 15:11:45 UTC+11, Rafael Sanches wrote:
>
>> Barry,
>>
>> Where have you read that it's going to be turned off?
>>
>> All google says is: "This application is using the Master/Slave
>> datastore which is deprecated! All customers should migrate to the
>> High-Replication datastore which offers greater stability and is resilient
>> to data center failure. To learn more about migration see High
>> Replication Datastore 
>> Migration
>> ."
>>
>> That message and nowhere in the documentation it says that it's going to
>> be turned off. It just says it offers greater stability. It doesn't mention
>> that M/S will be worst than in the past either.
>>
>> thanks
>> rafael
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Barry Hunter wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  I believe it would be less work to move out of appengine rather than
 moving to HDR.

>>>
>>> You will have to do one or the other soon anyway. M/S will be turned
>>> off.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Alpha Scorpii]

seeing from your screen capture that the memory usage seems so high... perhaps 
an new instance is started when there is no memory left to serve a new request?

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Alpha Scorpii]

by the way... i wonder why you are spending 40k a yearit doesn't seems your 
site got that much visitor

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Rafael]

Hi John,

Migrating my app to HDR has solved most of the issues! I would highly
recommend to migrate yours ASAP.

The whole migration process was waaay easier than expected. Due to the fact
that the old blobKeys are now alias to the new ones.

thanks
rafa


On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:34 AM, John V Denley wrote:

> My Application has been charged TEN TIMES as much every week since mid
> february. I have changed NOTHING and I have NO extra customers and NO extra
> traffic everything has been stable apart from the fact that my CPU
> times have dramatically increased since we started having these instance
> warm up/hard deadline exceeded issues...
>
> Below are my charges, as you can see, a fairly stable $2(ish) per week
> before 11th Feb and since then SIGNIFICANTLY higher charges, and NOTHING
> has changed at my end!!
>
>  2013-03-25 12:55:21 Charge Cleared ($25.74) $0.00  2013-03-18 16:11:03 Charge
> Cleared ($19.67) $0.00  2013-03-11 13:01:14 Charge Cleared ($6.85) $0.00 
> 2013-03-04 13:58:43 Charge
> Cleared ($6.94) $0.00  2013-02-25 13:01:18 Charge Cleared ($13.16) $0.00 
> 2013-02-18 13:00:10 Charge
> Cleared ($9.06) $0.00  2013-02-11 13:02:06 Charge Cleared ($20.42) $0.00 
> 2013-02-04 12:49:39 Charge
> Cleared ($2.30) $0.00  2013-01-28 12:48:57 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
> 2013-01-21 12:52:44 Charge
> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2013-01-14 12:48:24 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
> 2013-01-07 12:50:48 Charge
> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-31 12:59:44 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
> 2012-12-24 13:02:54 Charge
> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-17 13:05:47 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
> 2012-12-10 13:01:34 Charge
> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-03 15:09:00 Charge Cleared ($2.64) $0.00 
> 2012-11-26 12:59:38 Charge
> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-11-19 13:08:04 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
> 2012-11-12 13:01:26 Charge
> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00
>
>
> On Thursday, 14 March 2013 04:39:38 UTC, stevep wrote:
>>
>> I am uncertain about GAE given recent history, but have hope. Certainly
>> given MS is deprecated, we cannot hold G. accountable for issues there.
>> They **clearly** recommend HR, so MS app are 100% caveat emptor. However,
>> the SO and Google Groups threads recently have been consumed with ire not
>> limited to MS. A while ago, Jeff S. (whose posts I value the most along
>> with Drake) posited that G. would have fixed the issues had they been able
>> to do so. Going way back (when I started with GAE) billing was based on CPU
>> milliseconds consumed. My guess is they thought this was highly disruptive.
>> Then after beta, we got billed for 15 minute instance slices which was a
>> big change from beta. This suggest that the initial assumptions were wrong
>> (sh*t happens sometimes even if you are the brightest bulb in the pack).
>> Overall, I think Jeff is right. There are some problems that can not be
>> fixed given GAE's initial architecture. However, there may be some big
>> changes coming with the App>Server architecture that only trusted devs (me
>> excluded) get to enjoy. As I read the limited docs about what this entails,
>> I wonder if this will be a fundamental change for GAE. It appears to fix
>> most of my complaints, so I will be happy.
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[John V Denley]

Thanks Rafa (is this what you have been doing since you vanished from the
tennis scene!! LOL )

I was actually trying to migrate to HRD yesterday, the only trouble is I
wanted to migrate my current M/S appid ("idebanet") over to an new appid
("diarybooker") that I already own, the problem is that "diarybooker" is
also a M/S datastore, but I am just not using it yet at all, I want to
change that to an HRD datastore and THEN migrate, but there does not seem
to be any mechanism available to do this. I already have "diarybooker-hrd"
but really it would be nice to be able to use diarybooker.appspot.com given
that my actual domain is www.DiaryBooker.com

If you or anyone reading this can help me either switch my MS "diarybooker"
appid to HRD or allow me to delete "diarybooker" and recreate it as an HRD.

I could even live with aliasing diarybooker AND idebanet over to
diarybooker-hrd if thats the way I need to go, but I cant even find anyway
to create my own permanent alias manually!

PS as an aside: The minimum "support" contract with Google is $500 per
month for App Engine, which I find frankly insane, surely there is a market
there for use smaller (startup?) businesses to be able to get a minimal
amount of support without having to pay that kind of money!! I dont even
mind if email replies are "48 hours" and SLA is 1 week, but it just seems
madness that its either NOTHING (and frankly almost zero actual support) or
$500 per month!



On 1 April 2013 10:55, Rafael  wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> Migrating my app to HDR has solved most of the issues! I would highly
> recommend to migrate yours ASAP.
>
> The whole migration process was waaay easier than expected. Due to the
> fact that the old blobKeys are now alias to the new ones.
>
> thanks
> rafa
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:34 AM, John V Denley 
> wrote:
>
>> My Application has been charged TEN TIMES as much every week since mid
>> february. I have changed NOTHING and I have NO extra customers and NO extra
>> traffic everything has been stable apart from the fact that my CPU
>> times have dramatically increased since we started having these instance
>> warm up/hard deadline exceeded issues...
>>
>> Below are my charges, as you can see, a fairly stable $2(ish) per week
>> before 11th Feb and since then SIGNIFICANTLY higher charges, and NOTHING
>> has changed at my end!!
>>
>>  2013-03-25 12:55:21 Charge Cleared ($25.74) $0.00  2013-03-18 16:11:03 
>> Charge
>> Cleared ($19.67) $0.00  2013-03-11 13:01:14 Charge Cleared ($6.85) $0.00 
>> 2013-03-04 13:58:43 Charge
>> Cleared ($6.94) $0.00  2013-02-25 13:01:18 Charge Cleared ($13.16) $0.00 
>> 2013-02-18 13:00:10 Charge
>> Cleared ($9.06) $0.00  2013-02-11 13:02:06 Charge Cleared ($20.42) $0.00 
>> 2013-02-04 12:49:39 Charge
>> Cleared ($2.30) $0.00  2013-01-28 12:48:57 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>> 2013-01-21 12:52:44 Charge
>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2013-01-14 12:48:24 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>> 2013-01-07 12:50:48 Charge
>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-31 12:59:44 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>> 2012-12-24 13:02:54 Charge
>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-17 13:05:47 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>> 2012-12-10 13:01:34 Charge
>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-03 15:09:00 Charge Cleared ($2.64) $0.00 
>> 2012-11-26 12:59:38 Charge
>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-11-19 13:08:04 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>> 2012-11-12 13:01:26 Charge
>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 14 March 2013 04:39:38 UTC, stevep wrote:
>>>
>>> I am uncertain about GAE given recent history, but have hope. Certainly
>>> given MS is deprecated, we cannot hold G. accountable for issues there.
>>> They **clearly** recommend HR, so MS app are 100% caveat emptor. However,
>>> the SO and Google Groups threads recently have been consumed with ire not
>>> limited to MS. A while ago, Jeff S. (whose posts I value the most along
>>> with Drake) posited that G. would have fixed the issues had they been able
>>> to do so. Going way back (when I started with GAE) billing was based on CPU
>>> milliseconds consumed. My guess is they thought this was highly disruptive.
>>> Then after beta, we got billed for 15 minute instance slices which was a
>>> big change from beta. This suggest that the initial assumptions were wrong
>>> (sh*t happens sometimes even if you are the brightest bulb in the pack).
>>> Overall, I think Jeff is right. There are some problems that can not be
>>> fixed given GAE's initial architecture. However, there may be some big
>>> changes coming with the App>Server architecture that only trusted devs (me
>>> excluded) get to enjoy. As I read the limited docs about what this entails,
>>> I wonder if this will be a fundamental change for GAE. It appears to fix
>>> most of my complaints, so I will be happy.
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to google

Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Cesium]

Dearest Rafael,

You are living in a dream world if you think migrating to HRD will stop 
instances from dying prematurely.

This is not a criticism! Purposeful rejection of reality will save you!

Do not apply reason to the instance scheduler! Here, we call it a 
"faith-based" scheduler.

Have you not read any of the other posts on this issue???

Is it not definitive proof of the validity of my faith that the almighty G 
has not spoken to us about this problem?

(Should have posted this on Easter.)

David


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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Carl Schroeder]

Ever since I ported our app to Go, we have had no trouble with the 
scheduler aggressively recycling dynamic Java instances (because we have 
none).
This may be due to the Go runtime depending on Mermaids instead of Unicorns 
and Skittles like the Java stack.

On Monday, April 1, 2013 5:58:05 AM UTC-7, Cesium wrote:
>
> Dearest Rafael,
>
> You are living in a dream world if you think migrating to HRD will stop 
> instances from dying prematurely.
>
> This is not a criticism! Purposeful rejection of reality will save you!
>
> Do not apply reason to the instance scheduler! Here, we call it a 
> "faith-based" scheduler.
>
> Have you not read any of the other posts on this issue???
>
> Is it not definitive proof of the validity of my faith that the almighty G 
> has not spoken to us about this problem?
>
> (Should have posted this on Easter.)
>
> David
>
>
>

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"Google App Engine" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[Jeff Schnitzer]

FWIW, it's probably unwise to feel so strongly about your appid. You have
your own domain, there's no reason for anyone to see the *.appspot.com.
Just use diarybooker-hrd.

There may actually be some advantage in an obscure appid; unless you've
built in precautions or have unguessable version names, a malicious user
could spin up old versions of your app which might, for example, create
entities with an obsolete structure.

Jeff


On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 6:22 AM, John V Denley wrote:

> Thanks Rafa (is this what you have been doing since you vanished from the
> tennis scene!! LOL )
>
> I was actually trying to migrate to HRD yesterday, the only trouble is I
> wanted to migrate my current M/S appid ("idebanet") over to an new appid
> ("diarybooker") that I already own, the problem is that "diarybooker" is
> also a M/S datastore, but I am just not using it yet at all, I want to
> change that to an HRD datastore and THEN migrate, but there does not seem
> to be any mechanism available to do this. I already have "diarybooker-hrd"
> but really it would be nice to be able to use diarybooker.appspot.comgiven 
> that my actual domain is
> www.DiaryBooker.com
>
> If you or anyone reading this can help me either switch my MS
> "diarybooker" appid to HRD or allow me to delete "diarybooker" and recreate
> it as an HRD.
>
> I could even live with aliasing diarybooker AND idebanet over to
> diarybooker-hrd if thats the way I need to go, but I cant even find anyway
> to create my own permanent alias manually!
>
>  PS as an aside: The minimum "support" contract with Google is $500 per
> month for App Engine, which I find frankly insane, surely there is a market
> there for use smaller (startup?) businesses to be able to get a minimal
> amount of support without having to pay that kind of money!! I dont even
> mind if email replies are "48 hours" and SLA is 1 week, but it just seems
> madness that its either NOTHING (and frankly almost zero actual support) or
> $500 per month!
>
>
>
> On 1 April 2013 10:55, Rafael  wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Migrating my app to HDR has solved most of the issues! I would highly
>> recommend to migrate yours ASAP.
>>
>> The whole migration process was waaay easier than expected. Due to the
>> fact that the old blobKeys are now alias to the new ones.
>>
>> thanks
>> rafa
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:34 AM, John V Denley > > wrote:
>>
>>> My Application has been charged TEN TIMES as much every week since mid
>>> february. I have changed NOTHING and I have NO extra customers and NO extra
>>> traffic everything has been stable apart from the fact that my CPU
>>> times have dramatically increased since we started having these instance
>>> warm up/hard deadline exceeded issues...
>>>
>>> Below are my charges, as you can see, a fairly stable $2(ish) per week
>>> before 11th Feb and since then SIGNIFICANTLY higher charges, and NOTHING
>>> has changed at my end!!
>>>
>>>  2013-03-25 12:55:21 Charge Cleared ($25.74) $0.00  2013-03-18 16:11:03 
>>> Charge
>>> Cleared ($19.67) $0.00  2013-03-11 13:01:14 Charge Cleared ($6.85)$0.00 
>>> 2013-03-04 13:58:43 Charge
>>> Cleared ($6.94) $0.00  2013-02-25 13:01:18 Charge Cleared ($13.16)$0.00 
>>> 2013-02-18 13:00:10 Charge
>>> Cleared ($9.06) $0.00  2013-02-11 13:02:06 Charge Cleared ($20.42)$0.00 
>>> 2013-02-04 12:49:39 Charge
>>> Cleared ($2.30) $0.00  2013-01-28 12:48:57 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>>> 2013-01-21 12:52:44 Charge
>>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2013-01-14 12:48:24 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>>> 2013-01-07 12:50:48 Charge
>>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-31 12:59:44 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>>> 2012-12-24 13:02:54 Charge
>>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-17 13:05:47 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>>> 2012-12-10 13:01:34 Charge
>>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-03 15:09:00 Charge Cleared ($2.64) $0.00 
>>> 2012-11-26 12:59:38 Charge
>>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-11-19 13:08:04 Charge Cleared ($2.10) $0.00 
>>> 2012-11-12 13:01:26 Charge
>>> Cleared ($2.10) $0.00
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 14 March 2013 04:39:38 UTC, stevep wrote:

 I am uncertain about GAE given recent history, but have hope. Certainly
 given MS is deprecated, we cannot hold G. accountable for issues there.
 They **clearly** recommend HR, so MS app are 100% caveat emptor. However,
 the SO and Google Groups threads recently have been consumed with ire not
 limited to MS. A while ago, Jeff S. (whose posts I value the most along
 with Drake) posited that G. would have fixed the issues had they been able
 to do so. Going way back (when I started with GAE) billing was based on CPU
 milliseconds consumed. My guess is they thought this was highly disruptive.
 Then after beta, we got billed for 15 minute instance slices which was a
 big change from beta. This suggest that the initial assumptions were wrong
 (sh*t happens sometimes even if you are the brightest bulb in the pack).
 Overall, I think Jeff is right. The

Re: [google-appengine] Re: instances dying is a permanent states for datastore apps?

[John V Denley]

Good idea Jeff, never considered that.

The only real reason I wanted to use it, is because there have been times
in the past when I have needed to direct my customers direct to the appspot
url and its always a bit embarrassing to send them to my old idebanet
account as its just confusing! one time it was to allow one of my customers
to trial a new bit of functionality, but thinking back on it now it might
have been better to use a URL redirect such as http://test.DiaryBooker.com,
which I have just noticed DOES seem to go somewhere, I cant remember
setting that up... i wonder where it goes ;)


On 1 April 2013 17:53, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:

> FWIW, it's probably unwise to feel so strongly about your appid. You have
> your own domain, there's no reason for anyone to see the *.appspot.com.
> Just use diarybooker-hrd.
>
> There may actually be some advantage in an obscure appid; unless you've
> built in precautions or have unguessable version names, a malicious user
> could spin up old versions of your app which might, for example, create
> entities with an obsolete structure.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 6:22 AM, John V Denley 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Rafa (is this what you have been doing since you vanished from the
>> tennis scene!! LOL )
>>
>>  I was actually trying to migrate to HRD yesterday, the only trouble is
>> I wanted to migrate my current M/S appid ("idebanet") over to an new appid
>> ("diarybooker") that I already own, the problem is that "diarybooker" is
>> also a M/S datastore, but I am just not using it yet at all, I want to
>> change that to an HRD datastore and THEN migrate, but there does not seem
>> to be any mechanism available to do this. I already have "diarybooker-hrd"
>> but really it would be nice to be able to use diarybooker.appspot.comgiven 
>> that my actual domain is
>> www.DiaryBooker.com
>>
>> If you or anyone reading this can help me either switch my MS
>> "diarybooker" appid to HRD or allow me to delete "diarybooker" and recreate
>> it as an HRD.
>>
>> I could even live with aliasing diarybooker AND idebanet over to
>> diarybooker-hrd if thats the way I need to go, but I cant even find anyway
>> to create my own permanent alias manually!
>>
>>  PS as an aside: The minimum "support" contract with Google is $500 per
>> month for App Engine, which I find frankly insane, surely there is a market
>> there for use smaller (startup?) businesses to be able to get a minimal
>> amount of support without having to pay that kind of money!! I dont even
>> mind if email replies are "48 hours" and SLA is 1 week, but it just seems
>> madness that its either NOTHING (and frankly almost zero actual support) or
>> $500 per month!
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1 April 2013 10:55, Rafael  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> Migrating my app to HDR has solved most of the issues! I would highly
>>> recommend to migrate yours ASAP.
>>>
>>> The whole migration process was waaay easier than expected. Due to the
>>> fact that the old blobKeys are now alias to the new ones.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> rafa
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 2:34 AM, John V Denley <
>>> johnvden...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
 My Application has been charged TEN TIMES as much every week since mid
 february. I have changed NOTHING and I have NO extra customers and NO extra
 traffic everything has been stable apart from the fact that my CPU
 times have dramatically increased since we started having these instance
 warm up/hard deadline exceeded issues...

 Below are my charges, as you can see, a fairly stable $2(ish) per week
 before 11th Feb and since then SIGNIFICANTLY higher charges, and NOTHING
 has changed at my end!!

  2013-03-25 12:55:21 Charge Cleared ($25.74) $0.00  2013-03-18 16:11:03 
 Charge
 Cleared ($19.67) $0.00  2013-03-11 13:01:14 Charge Cleared ($6.85)$0.00 
 2013-03-04 13:58:43 Charge
 Cleared ($6.94) $0.00  2013-02-25 13:01:18 Charge Cleared ($13.16)$0.00 
 2013-02-18 13:00:10 Charge
 Cleared ($9.06) $0.00  2013-02-11 13:02:06 Charge Cleared ($20.42)$0.00 
 2013-02-04 12:49:39 Charge
 Cleared ($2.30) $0.00  2013-01-28 12:48:57 Charge Cleared ($2.10)$0.00 
 2013-01-21 12:52:44 Charge
 Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2013-01-14 12:48:24 Charge Cleared ($2.10)$0.00 
 2013-01-07 12:50:48 Charge
 Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-31 12:59:44 Charge Cleared ($2.10)$0.00 
 2012-12-24 13:02:54 Charge
 Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-17 13:05:47 Charge Cleared ($2.10)$0.00 
 2012-12-10 13:01:34 Charge
 Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-12-03 15:09:00 Charge Cleared ($2.64)$0.00 
 2012-11-26 12:59:38 Charge
 Cleared ($2.10) $0.00  2012-11-19 13:08:04 Charge Cleared ($2.10)$0.00 
 2012-11-12 13:01:26 Charge
 Cleared ($2.10) $0.00


 On Thursday, 14 March 2013 04:39:38 UTC, stevep wrote:
>
> I am uncertain about GAE given recent history, but have hope.
> Certainly given MS is deprecated, we cannot hold