Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
Well, I'd love to just trust the team to just figure it out, but that doesn't seem to work out too well recently, so I don't think being optimistic is justified here. I'm not saying they can't do it, but maybe they are understaffed, or the process is broken, but things aren't going well. (Whoever works at the datastore backend is amazing though). On 4 September 2011 15:00, Joshua Smith wrote: > Let's give the GAE team some credit, and assume that they can discern the > short-term-fix issues from the long-term-solution issues. > I starred this new idea, because, in the long term, it would be a really > amazing toolset to have for my enterprise apps (not my free app, where all I > want to do is keep idle instances from running). It also would be a level > of load balancing control never before seen in the cloud world, which should > get some people at google interested. > And I suspect that Brandon would find ways to use it that just blew us away. > On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:47 AM, Sergey Schetinin wrote: > > Well,.. I intentionally tried to make a suggestion that requires as little > deviation from the existing plan as possible. I have no faith in GAE team > making anything but baby steps towards the community -- that request in the > linked ticket is way too ambitious. > -Sergey > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/TIcQn3mpRLgJ. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > -- http://self.maluke.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
Let's give the GAE team some credit, and assume that they can discern the short-term-fix issues from the long-term-solution issues. I starred this new idea, because, in the long term, it would be a really amazing toolset to have for my enterprise apps (not my free app, where all I want to do is keep idle instances from running). It also would be a level of load balancing control never before seen in the cloud world, which should get some people at google interested. And I suspect that Brandon would find ways to use it that just blew us away. On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:47 AM, Sergey Schetinin wrote: > Well,.. I intentionally tried to make a suggestion that requires as little > deviation from the existing plan as possible. I have no faith in GAE team > making anything but baby steps towards the community -- that request in the > linked ticket is way too ambitious. > > -Sergey > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/TIcQn3mpRLgJ. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
Well,.. I intentionally tried to make a suggestion that requires as little deviation from the existing plan as possible. I have no faith in GAE team making anything but baby steps towards the community -- that request in the linked ticket is way too ambitious. -Sergey -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/TIcQn3mpRLgJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
Here's another approach, which seems a lot more powerful than either of the things we suggested: http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5775 On Sep 4, 2011, at 7:05 AM, Sergey Schetinin wrote: > I made a very similar request back in June -- there was zero reaction from > Google. > > My suggestion is a little different -- provide a separate slider for "maximum > latency for task queue requests". > > -Sergey > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/ZgT491lCdLUJ. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
+1 On 4 September 2011 03:51, Joshua Smith wrote: > Yes, that certainly seems possible. But it's a lot more trouble than just > having a way to say to the scheduler, "run these when you have an idle > instance with nothing better to do," or "DO NOT spin up an instance just to > handle this task" > > On Sep 3, 2011, at 12:14 PM, peterk wrote: > >> You can pull from task queues instead of having them push, right? That >> could help a lot where task queues are the source of instance spin up. >> I'd even be happy to dedicated a back-end to task queue pull-work if >> it was necessary - at least that is totally under your control. >> >> >> >> On Sep 3, 5:05 pm, Joshua Smith wrote: >>> I also identified task queues as the source of my excessive instances. I >>> suspect this is a quite common issue, and together with datastore access >>> bugs (sorry, but you never should have written it like that) like the one >>> you found, are conspiring to make a lot of these crazy new billing numbers. >>> >>> I think a lot of people just need to take a deep breath and look at their >>> apps the way you did. It's certainly a lot less work than migrating to EC2. >>> >>> On Sep 3, 2011, at 6:16 AM, Emlyn wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> I don't think I've posted here before, but I've been an appengine user for a while now (closing on 2 years? Is that even possible?). And like many, I had a rude shock with the new pricing (going from $0.50/day to $50/day). >>> However, I dug into what I'm actually being charged for, and I think it's all actually in my control to sort out, and that in itself is sort of fascinating. I wrote a long blog post on this, which people might find interesting. >>> The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude http://point7.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/the-amazing-story-of-appengine... >>> I'd be really grateful for feedback, especially if I've gotten anything wildly wrong. I haven't actually made any of the changes that I've foreshadowed in the post, that's for the next day or two, and I'll write a followup article on how it goes. >>> Thanks in advance for having a look! >>> -- Emlyn >>> http://my.syyn.cc- Synchonise Google+, Facebook, WordPress and Google Buzz posts, comments and all. http://point7.wordpress.com- My blog Find me on Facebook and Buzz >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Google App Engine" group. >> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- Emlyn http://my.syyn.cc - Synchonise Google+, Facebook, WordPress and Google Buzz posts, comments and all. http://point7.wordpress.com - My blog Find me on Facebook and Buzz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
On 4 September 2011 01:35, Joshua Smith wrote: > I also identified task queues as the source of my excessive instances. I > suspect this is a quite common issue, and together with datastore access bugs > (sorry, but you never should have written it like that) I totally agree with you! I don't clearly remember writing that bit of code, but it looks like a kludgy workaround for a bug. This app is an evenings & weekends thing, so "what can I do in 10 mins to fix critical issue X" is often the driving factor. That doesn't lead to good code ;-) > like the one you found, are conspiring to make a lot of these crazy new > billing numbers. I think that's going to end up being true. What Google are doing with the new billing is surfacing the true costs of the platform, which were hidden before. It's pain we've got to go through, and it'll be better for all of us in the long run. That said, it would have been nice to have had a little longer between getting access to the new billing tools and actually wearing the new costs. But it does focus the mind! > > I think a lot of people just need to take a deep breath and look at their > apps the way you did. It's certainly a lot less work than migrating to EC2. Absolutely. We need to not lose sight of just how great a PAAS platform this is, and how much we gain by using it. > > On Sep 3, 2011, at 6:16 AM, Emlyn wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I don't think I've posted here before, but I've been an appengine user >> for a while now (closing on 2 years? Is that even possible?). And like >> many, I had a rude shock with the new pricing (going from $0.50/day to >> $50/day). >> >> However, I dug into what I'm actually being charged for, and I think >> it's all actually in my control to sort out, and that in itself is >> sort of fascinating. I wrote a long blog post on this, which people >> might find interesting. >> >> The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude >> http://point7.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/the-amazing-story-of-appengine-and-the-two-orders-of-magnitude/ >> >> I'd be really grateful for feedback, especially if I've gotten >> anything wildly wrong. I haven't actually made any of the changes that >> I've foreshadowed in the post, that's for the next day or two, and >> I'll write a followup article on how it goes. >> >> Thanks in advance for having a look! >> >> -- >> Emlyn >> >> http://my.syyn.cc - Synchonise Google+, Facebook, WordPress and Google >> Buzz posts, >> comments and all. >> http://point7.wordpress.com - My blog >> Find me on Facebook and Buzz >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Google App Engine" group. >> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- Emlyn http://my.syyn.cc - Synchonise Google+, Facebook, WordPress and Google Buzz posts, comments and all. http://point7.wordpress.com - My blog Find me on Facebook and Buzz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
THAT is a fantastic idea. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/qa8mqxfJ25MJ. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
Yes, that certainly seems possible. But it's a lot more trouble than just having a way to say to the scheduler, "run these when you have an idle instance with nothing better to do," or "DO NOT spin up an instance just to handle this task" On Sep 3, 2011, at 12:14 PM, peterk wrote: > You can pull from task queues instead of having them push, right? That > could help a lot where task queues are the source of instance spin up. > I'd even be happy to dedicated a back-end to task queue pull-work if > it was necessary - at least that is totally under your control. > > > > On Sep 3, 5:05 pm, Joshua Smith wrote: >> I also identified task queues as the source of my excessive instances. I >> suspect this is a quite common issue, and together with datastore access >> bugs (sorry, but you never should have written it like that) like the one >> you found, are conspiring to make a lot of these crazy new billing numbers. >> >> I think a lot of people just need to take a deep breath and look at their >> apps the way you did. It's certainly a lot less work than migrating to EC2. >> >> On Sep 3, 2011, at 6:16 AM, Emlyn wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Hi all, >> >>> I don't think I've posted here before, but I've been an appengine user >>> for a while now (closing on 2 years? Is that even possible?). And like >>> many, I had a rude shock with the new pricing (going from $0.50/day to >>> $50/day). >> >>> However, I dug into what I'm actually being charged for, and I think >>> it's all actually in my control to sort out, and that in itself is >>> sort of fascinating. I wrote a long blog post on this, which people >>> might find interesting. >> >>> The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude >>> http://point7.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/the-amazing-story-of-appengine... >> >>> I'd be really grateful for feedback, especially if I've gotten >>> anything wildly wrong. I haven't actually made any of the changes that >>> I've foreshadowed in the post, that's for the next day or two, and >>> I'll write a followup article on how it goes. >> >>> Thanks in advance for having a look! >> >>> -- >>> Emlyn >> >>> http://my.syyn.cc- Synchonise Google+, Facebook, WordPress and Google >>> Buzz posts, >>> comments and all. >>> http://point7.wordpress.com- My blog >>> Find me on Facebook and Buzz >> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Google App Engine" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group >>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
Re: [google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
I also identified task queues as the source of my excessive instances. I suspect this is a quite common issue, and together with datastore access bugs (sorry, but you never should have written it like that) like the one you found, are conspiring to make a lot of these crazy new billing numbers. I think a lot of people just need to take a deep breath and look at their apps the way you did. It's certainly a lot less work than migrating to EC2. On Sep 3, 2011, at 6:16 AM, Emlyn wrote: > Hi all, > > I don't think I've posted here before, but I've been an appengine user > for a while now (closing on 2 years? Is that even possible?). And like > many, I had a rude shock with the new pricing (going from $0.50/day to > $50/day). > > However, I dug into what I'm actually being charged for, and I think > it's all actually in my control to sort out, and that in itself is > sort of fascinating. I wrote a long blog post on this, which people > might find interesting. > > The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude > http://point7.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/the-amazing-story-of-appengine-and-the-two-orders-of-magnitude/ > > I'd be really grateful for feedback, especially if I've gotten > anything wildly wrong. I haven't actually made any of the changes that > I've foreshadowed in the post, that's for the next day or two, and > I'll write a followup article on how it goes. > > Thanks in advance for having a look! > > -- > Emlyn > > http://my.syyn.cc - Synchonise Google+, Facebook, WordPress and Google > Buzz posts, > comments and all. > http://point7.wordpress.com - My blog > Find me on Facebook and Buzz > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
[google-appengine] The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude
Hi all, I don't think I've posted here before, but I've been an appengine user for a while now (closing on 2 years? Is that even possible?). And like many, I had a rude shock with the new pricing (going from $0.50/day to $50/day). However, I dug into what I'm actually being charged for, and I think it's all actually in my control to sort out, and that in itself is sort of fascinating. I wrote a long blog post on this, which people might find interesting. The Amazing Story Of Appengine And The Two Orders Of Magnitude http://point7.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/the-amazing-story-of-appengine-and-the-two-orders-of-magnitude/ I'd be really grateful for feedback, especially if I've gotten anything wildly wrong. I haven't actually made any of the changes that I've foreshadowed in the post, that's for the next day or two, and I'll write a followup article on how it goes. Thanks in advance for having a look! -- Emlyn http://my.syyn.cc - Synchonise Google+, Facebook, WordPress and Google Buzz posts, comments and all. http://point7.wordpress.com - My blog Find me on Facebook and Buzz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
