Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-06 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you very much, Justin.
I was take note of this in subsequent runs.
Thank you so, so much for your assistance.
It is greatly appreciated!




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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-06 Thread Justin Lemkul



On 10/6/16 7:13 AM, Kelechi Okoroafor wrote:

Thank you for the tip, Justin.
I incorrectly thought that the coordinates and box dimensions were
sufficient to preserve the pressure of the system.
I shall make a habit of restarting simulations with the checkpoint file
rather than .gro files.

My sequence of commands were:


   - gmx  grompp  -f npt.mdp   -c EM.gro   -p sys.top   -o NPT1.tpr  -n
   index.ndx   -maxwarn  -1

   -

   gmx  mdrun -v -deffnm NPT1  -nb gpu -tunepme
   -

   gmx editconf -f  NPT1.gro  -o   NPT1.pdb  -c -d 0.00
   -

   gmx editconf -f  NPT1.pdb  -o   NPT1.gro  -c -d 0.00
   -



If you just want to convert file formats, omit -c -d in your editconf command 
and nothing will change.  By using -d 0.00, you will be adjusting the system 
size (you will see this by comparing the box vectors in the input and output 
files).  You're ensuring a bad discontinuity by doing this.  My recommendation 
is to always use unmodified files when continuing runs; it's basically 
bulletproof.  If you want a different format for visualization, that's fine, but 
just use it for visualization.  Your original NPT1.gro should have been fine, 
but having transformed to .pdb while manipulating the box, then back, you're 
just invalidating anything that was done previously.


-Justin


   gmx  grompp  -f pme.mdp   -c NPT1.gro   -p sys.top   -o NVT1.tpr  -n
   index.ndx   -maxwarn  -1
   -

   gmx  mdrun -v -deffnm NVT1  -nb gpu -tunepme










--
==

Justin A. Lemkul, Ph.D.
Ruth L. Kirschstein NRSA Postdoctoral Fellow

Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences
School of Pharmacy
Health Sciences Facility II, Room 629
University of Maryland, Baltimore
20 Penn St.
Baltimore, MD 21201

jalem...@outerbanks.umaryland.edu | (410) 706-7441
http://mackerell.umaryland.edu/~jalemkul

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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-06 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you for the tip, Justin.
I incorrectly thought that the coordinates and box dimensions were
sufficient to preserve the pressure of the system.
I shall make a habit of restarting simulations with the checkpoint file
rather than .gro files.

My sequence of commands were:


   - gmx  grompp  -f npt.mdp   -c EM.gro   -p sys.top   -o NPT1.tpr  -n
   index.ndx   -maxwarn  -1

   -

   gmx  mdrun -v -deffnm NPT1  -nb gpu -tunepme
   -

   gmx editconf -f  NPT1.gro  -o   NPT1.pdb  -c -d 0.00
   -

   gmx editconf -f  NPT1.pdb  -o   NPT1.gro  -c -d 0.00
   -

   gmx  grompp  -f pme.mdp   -c NPT1.gro   -p sys.top   -o NVT1.tpr  -n
   index.ndx   -maxwarn  -1
   -

   gmx  mdrun -v -deffnm NVT1  -nb gpu -tunepme








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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-05 Thread Justin Lemkul



On 10/5/16 9:46 PM, Kelechi Okoroafor wrote:

Thank you very much, Justin.
So I did not restart the simulation directly.

One of my desktops had a hardware malfunction so I had to move my
files between desktops.
Before moving my files, I converted my final npt.gro trajectory into a
.pdb file (for ease of vmd visualisation as vmd often crashes while
viewing .gro files), then converted the files back to .gro to restart
the simulation in a different desktop.

Somewhere in between my file conversion, the trajectories must have
been edited to cause such drastic pressure increase.



The difference between .pdb and .gro is negligible.  Not preserving the state by 
using the checkpoint basically negates any previous simulation as you will be 
restarting from a random state.  But without an exact sequence of your commands, 
it's pure guesswork and is unproductive for all involved.


-Justin

--
==

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Ruth L. Kirschstein NRSA Postdoctoral Fellow

Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences
School of Pharmacy
Health Sciences Facility II, Room 629
University of Maryland, Baltimore
20 Penn St.
Baltimore, MD 21201

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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-05 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you very much, Justin.
So I did not restart the simulation directly.

One of my desktops had a hardware malfunction so I had to move my
files between desktops.
Before moving my files, I converted my final npt.gro trajectory into a
.pdb file (for ease of vmd visualisation as vmd often crashes while
viewing .gro files), then converted the files back to .gro to restart
the simulation in a different desktop.

Somewhere in between my file conversion, the trajectories must have
been edited to cause such drastic pressure increase.


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Kelechi
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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-05 Thread Justin Lemkul



On 10/5/16 8:45 PM, Kelechi Okoroafor wrote:

Thank you very much, James.
My apologies, I miscommunicated myself.

I meant to say that I used NPT simulation to equilibrate the pressure
to 1bar as desired. I had planned to do NVT simulation after the NPT
simulation, expecting the pressure to fluctuate reasonably about the
mean value of 1bar.

Unfortunately, editconf edited the trajectory such that during the NVT
simulation, the pressure fluctuated about the mean value of 900bar
causing the observed unusual behaviour.



I don't see how that's possible.  If you move from NPT -> NVT, the ensemble that 
is preserved is the one that is present in the final snapshot; even if the 
average over the NPT run is 1 bar, there is no guarantee that instantaneous 
value is 1 bar, though the density is likely correct.


Where was editconf involved in this process?  If you're continuing a run and 
changing ensemble, you should be invoking grompp -t with the previous 
checkpoint.  Any other use of GROMACS tools introduces discontinuity.


-Justin

--
==

Justin A. Lemkul, Ph.D.
Ruth L. Kirschstein NRSA Postdoctoral Fellow

Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences
School of Pharmacy
Health Sciences Facility II, Room 629
University of Maryland, Baltimore
20 Penn St.
Baltimore, MD 21201

jalem...@outerbanks.umaryland.edu | (410) 706-7441
http://mackerell.umaryland.edu/~jalemkul

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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-05 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you very much, James.
My apologies, I miscommunicated myself.

I meant to say that I used NPT simulation to equilibrate the pressure
to 1bar as desired. I had planned to do NVT simulation after the NPT
simulation, expecting the pressure to fluctuate reasonably about the
mean value of 1bar.

Unfortunately, editconf edited the trajectory such that during the NVT
simulation, the pressure fluctuated about the mean value of 900bar
causing the observed unusual behaviour.

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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-05 Thread jkrieger
That is not a bug. The idea of NVT is it keeps your volume constant not
your pressure. In theory the pressure should stay fairly constant for a
given temperature as the solvent pushes against the boundaries or itself
to a fairly constant extent that depends on its velocities. I have not
however heard of anyone usually pressure coupling (NPT) for equilibration
only but I imagine it should work. You'd probably be best to keep the
velocities to be sure rather than generating them again. Did you not use
the same mdp files in the same order on all machines?

Best wishes
James

> As advised, I compared the systems between the different platforms and
> found the bug.
> I had initially equilibrated the pressure of my system in an NPT run
> before
> doing an NVT run on my desktop.
> Unbeknownst to me,  editconf had adjusted the coordinates of my molecules
> such that the pressure during the NVT run was almost 3 orders of magnitude
> higher than the initially equilibrated pressure, hence the unusual
> behaviour.
> I just did an NPT run on my desktop and it is loooking good.
> This bug cost me some frustrating weeks of my life but on the bright side,
> I may just get a publication from studying  it. :D
>
> Thank you so, so much Mark, Justin and Szilárd.
> I really appreciate your assistance!
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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-05 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
As advised, I compared the systems between the different platforms and
found the bug.
I had initially equilibrated the pressure of my system in an NPT run before
doing an NVT run on my desktop.
Unbeknownst to me,  editconf had adjusted the coordinates of my molecules
such that the pressure during the NVT run was almost 3 orders of magnitude
higher than the initially equilibrated pressure, hence the unusual
behaviour.
I just did an NPT run on my desktop and it is loooking good.
This bug cost me some frustrating weeks of my life but on the bright side,
I may just get a publication from studying  it. :D

Thank you so, so much Mark, Justin and Szilárd.
I really appreciate your assistance!
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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you so much, Szilárd.
Yes, it passed the regression tests.

Let me explore system characteristics and see how they differ between
the platforms.


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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you, Justin.

As suggested, I re-ran the regression tests and got the result:

All 16 simple tests PASSED
All 45 complex tests PASSED
All 142 kernel tests PASSED
All 10 freeenergy tests PASSED
All 12 rotation tests PASSED
All 0 extra tests PASSED
All 42 pdb2gmx tests PASSED

I shall keep the simulation running and see what happens.


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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Szilárd Páll
If the regressiontests pass, I'd recommend trying to identify
differences measurable/reproducible between those runs on shorter and
preferably known time-scales.
--
Szilárd


On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 5:30 PM, Kelechi Okoroafor  wrote:
> Thank you very much, Mark.
>
> You are absolutely right in that I do not have enough statistical data
> to definitely say that the structures ought to form at 200ns.
>
> However, I have repeated the experimental set in total 4 times on
> Stampede and twice on my school's cluster.
> In all cases, without exception, all the systems have formed the
> expected self-assembled structures within the 200ns time frame.
>
> But on my desktop, the structure did not happen even after 523ns.
>
> Do you suggest that I keep running the simulation for observation?
>
>
>
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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you very much, Mark.

You are absolutely right in that I do not have enough statistical data
to definitely say that the structures ought to form at 200ns.

However, I have repeated the experimental set in total 4 times on
Stampede and twice on my school's cluster.
In all cases, without exception, all the systems have formed the
expected self-assembled structures within the 200ns time frame.

But on my desktop, the structure did not happen even after 523ns.

Do you suggest that I keep running the simulation for observation?



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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Justin Lemkul



On 10/4/16 11:12 AM, Kelechi Okoroafor wrote:

Thank you very much, Justin, for your response.
It is highly appreciated.

When I built Gromacs on both desktops, I recall doing the regression
tests, though I do not recall the results of the test, my bad.

Do you mean I should re-run the regression tests?


Yes.


Or are there other tests I can run?


In the absence of any demonstration that there's actually something wrong with 
the software in the tests, I concur in full with Mark's reply.  You're seeing 
variability in your results.  This is par for the course in MD simulations.


-Justin

--
==

Justin A. Lemkul, Ph.D.
Ruth L. Kirschstein NRSA Postdoctoral Fellow

Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences
School of Pharmacy
Health Sciences Facility II, Room 629
University of Maryland, Baltimore
20 Penn St.
Baltimore, MD 21201

jalem...@outerbanks.umaryland.edu | (410) 706-7441
http://mackerell.umaryland.edu/~jalemkul

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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you very much, Justin, for your response.
It is highly appreciated.

When I built Gromacs on both desktops, I recall doing the regression
tests, though I do not recall the results of the test, my bad.

Do you mean I should re-run the regression tests?
Or are there other tests I can run?




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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Mark Abraham
Hi,

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 4:17 PM Kelechi Okoroafor  wrote:

> Thank you very much, Mark, for your prompt response; it is highly
> appreciated.
> My sincere apologies for the miscommunication in my initial post.
>
> I meant to say that in performing several repetitions of simulations,
> after approximately 200ns of total simulation time on (Stampede and my
> school's) cluster, I observed some structures formed that have been
> corroborated by other MD simulations as well as experiments.
>
> However, these same simulations were repeated several times on both my
> personal desktop computers and I did not observe the expected
> structures after 200ns.
>

It doesn't follow that because you have observed it in under 200ns that it
will always happen in that time, or even that that is a characteristic
time. You have to observe the process quite a few times before you can
express such times with statistical confidence :-) (In isolation, that the
sun was up for about 12 hours today doesn't tell me much about how long
tomorrow will be...) Experiment is not necessarily oracular, either...
there can be other things going on that don't show up with the method being
used there.

So the issue is not that the simulations are not exactly the same; it
> is that the simulations are not giving physically reasonable results.
>

Of course one cannot rule out that there is a meaningful problem with the
code such that your run(s) with 5.0.6 and 5.1.2 are affected by a bug
(which could even be because 5.0.6 had a bug that was fixed in 5.1.2...).
You should check out the online release notes to see if there's things of
concern for you. But so far, I'd suggest that your problem is merely
insufficient sampling. A physically reasonable result requires that you
have observed reality correctly in an experiment, have used a model capable
of reproducing that reality, have described the system correctly within
that model, have used software that correctly samples according to that
description, and have done enough sampling. Life can be tricky, here :-)

Mark


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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Thank you very much, Mark, for your prompt response; it is highly appreciated.
My sincere apologies for the miscommunication in my initial post.

I meant to say that in performing several repetitions of simulations,
after approximately 200ns of total simulation time on (Stampede and my
school's) cluster, I observed some structures formed that have been
corroborated by other MD simulations as well as experiments.

However, these same simulations were repeated several times on both my
personal desktop computers and I did not observe the expected
structures after 200ns.

So the issue is not that the simulations are not exactly the same; it
is that the simulations are not giving physically reasonable results.


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Kelechi
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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Justin Lemkul



On 10/4/16 10:16 AM, Kelechi Okoroafor wrote:

Thank you very much, Mark, for your prompt response; it is highly appreciated.
My sincere apologies for the miscommunication in my initial post.

I meant to say that in performing several repetitions of simulations,
after approximately 200ns of total simulation time on (Stampede and my
school's) cluster, I observed some structures formed that have been
corroborated by other MD simulations as well as experiments.

However, these same simulations were repeated several times on both my
personal desktop computers and I did not observe the expected
structures after 200ns.



This sounds like normal sampling variability.  It's never a given that 
independent simulations will do the same thing in the same amount of time.



So the issue is not that the simulations are not exactly the same; it
is that the simulations are not giving physically reasonable results.


Does your desktop implementation of GROMACS pass all tests?  If it does, then 
there's nothing wrong with the results.


-Justin

--
==

Justin A. Lemkul, Ph.D.
Ruth L. Kirschstein NRSA Postdoctoral Fellow

Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences
School of Pharmacy
Health Sciences Facility II, Room 629
University of Maryland, Baltimore
20 Penn St.
Baltimore, MD 21201

jalem...@outerbanks.umaryland.edu | (410) 706-7441
http://mackerell.umaryland.edu/~jalemkul

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Re: [gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Mark Abraham
Hi,

This sounds totally normal. Individual MD trajectories are only
reproducible if you take great pains to make them so, and that is typically
not a relevant objective (and definitely not implemented for GROMACS on
GPUs). If you're trying to do an ergodic sampling, then that's the thing
you want to reproduce. But if a single trajectory hasn't done such
sampling, wanting to reproduce it doesn't address the real issue that that
trajectory was an observation of low significance. You could e.g. run again
on your old cluster with a different set of initial velocities, and I
expect you will observe divergence. You see to have gotten "lucky" to miss
that on the first time you repeated the work. See also
http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Terminology/Reproducibility

Mark

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 2:08 PM Kelechi Okoroafor  wrote:

> Hello, All.
>
> I had previously run the same coarse-grained MD simulations using the
> Martini force field with PME electrostatics on TACC's Stampede GPU cluster
> and my school's CPU cluster and gotten the same results.
>
> I recently built two desktop computers and the results from both my
> computers match each other but are completely different from the results
> from TACC's Stampede and my school's cluster.
>
> I have checked through and I have listed the differences between the
> architecture of the different platforms I have run the simulations on
> below.
>
> Please has anyone else experienced this?
> Does anyone know what may be the issue with my build of Gromacs?
>
> Stampede TACC:
>
>- Gromacs Version  = 5.0.6
>- FFT library  = Intel MKL
>- SIMD instruction set = AVX_256
>- CPU = Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 0
>-
>
>GPU   = NVIDIA Tesla K20m
>
>-
>
>CUDA driver  = 7.0
>
>-
>
>CUDA runtime = 7.0
>
>
>
>
> School's CPU Cluster:
>
>- Gromacs Version  = 5.1.2
>-  FFT library  = fftw-3.3.4-sse2
>- SIMD instruction set = SSE4.1
>- CPU  = Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2699 v3
>
>
>
> My Computer 1
>
>- Gromacs Version = 5.1.2
>- FFT library  = fftw-3.3.4-sse2-avx
>- SIMD instruction set = AVX2_256
>- CPU = Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6800K
>- GPU = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080
>- CUDA driver = 8.0
>- CUDA runtime = 8.0
>
>
> My Computer 2
>
>- Gromacs Version = 5.1.2
>- FFT library  = fftw-3.3.4-sse2-avx
>- SIMD instruction set = AVX2_256
>- CPU = Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6600K
>- GPU = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
>- CUDA driver = 8.0
>- CUDA runtime = 8.0
>
>
> Best wishes,
> Kae
> --
> Gromacs Users mailing list
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[gmx-users] Different Results with Different Platforms

2016-10-04 Thread Kelechi Okoroafor
Hello, All.

I had previously run the same coarse-grained MD simulations using the
Martini force field with PME electrostatics on TACC's Stampede GPU cluster
and my school's CPU cluster and gotten the same results.

I recently built two desktop computers and the results from both my
computers match each other but are completely different from the results
from TACC's Stampede and my school's cluster.

I have checked through and I have listed the differences between the
architecture of the different platforms I have run the simulations on below.

Please has anyone else experienced this?
Does anyone know what may be the issue with my build of Gromacs?

Stampede TACC:

   - Gromacs Version  = 5.0.6
   - FFT library  = Intel MKL
   - SIMD instruction set = AVX_256
   - CPU = Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 0
   -

   GPU   = NVIDIA Tesla K20m

   -

   CUDA driver  = 7.0

   -

   CUDA runtime = 7.0




School's CPU Cluster:

   - Gromacs Version  = 5.1.2
   -  FFT library  = fftw-3.3.4-sse2
   - SIMD instruction set = SSE4.1
   - CPU  = Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2699 v3



My Computer 1

   - Gromacs Version = 5.1.2
   - FFT library  = fftw-3.3.4-sse2-avx
   - SIMD instruction set = AVX2_256
   - CPU = Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6800K
   - GPU = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080
   - CUDA driver = 8.0
   - CUDA runtime = 8.0


My Computer 2

   - Gromacs Version = 5.1.2
   - FFT library  = fftw-3.3.4-sse2-avx
   - SIMD instruction set = AVX2_256
   - CPU = Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6600K
   - GPU = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070
   - CUDA driver = 8.0
   - CUDA runtime = 8.0


Best wishes,
Kae
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