Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 09:47:50AM +0200, Vladimir 'phcoder' Serbinenko wrote: Peng Tao wrote: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Robert Millan r...@aybabtu.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:29:11AM +0800, Peng Tao wrote: It would be great if somebody could take up Edward's work and port it to GRUB 2. If nobody else does then I'd be interested in doing so myself, although I will not be able to start for a month or two from now. Is there any guild lines for porting GPLv2 code to GRUB2? I've looked at the GRUB2 wiki but very few things are documented there (http://grub.enbug.org/). I'd like to see what it would take to port the patches. If I can afford it, I'd like to try. I assume you mean GPLv2-only code (as opposed to GPLv2-or-later). First step would be to contact the copyright holders and ask them to relicense under v3-compatible terms (e.g. GPLv2-or-later). Chances are they didn't chose these terms as an act of hostility, but were simply being zealous about allowing something before they knew what it is. If that doesn't work, we'll always have Par^W clean room (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design). Edward's patch (stage2/fsys_btrfs.c) is declared GPLv2-or-later. But stage2/btrfs.h (which is extracted from btrfs-progs) is GPLv2-only. At the point, we only need a clean room for btrfs.h, right? Doing any clean room is needed only if other ways fail. And I hope Oracle and btrfs contributors could agree to license under GPLv3-compatible terms Yes, this should only be our last-ressort option. -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
Peng Tao wrote: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Robert Millan r...@aybabtu.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:29:11AM +0800, Peng Tao wrote: It would be great if somebody could take up Edward's work and port it to GRUB 2. If nobody else does then I'd be interested in doing so myself, although I will not be able to start for a month or two from now. Is there any guild lines for porting GPLv2 code to GRUB2? I've looked at the GRUB2 wiki but very few things are documented there (http://grub.enbug.org/). I'd like to see what it would take to port the patches. If I can afford it, I'd like to try. I assume you mean GPLv2-only code (as opposed to GPLv2-or-later). First step would be to contact the copyright holders and ask them to relicense under v3-compatible terms (e.g. GPLv2-or-later). Chances are they didn't chose these terms as an act of hostility, but were simply being zealous about allowing something before they knew what it is. If that doesn't work, we'll always have Par^W clean room (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design). Edward's patch (stage2/fsys_btrfs.c) is declared GPLv2-or-later. But stage2/btrfs.h (which is extracted from btrfs-progs) is GPLv2-only. At the point, we only need a clean room for btrfs.h, right? Doing any clean room is needed only if other ways fail. And I hope Oracle and btrfs contributors could agree to license under GPLv3-compatible terms And I'm not sure what a clean room design in GRUB2 looks like. Is there an example? -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:29:11AM +0800, Peng Tao wrote: It would be great if somebody could take up Edward's work and port it to GRUB 2. If nobody else does then I'd be interested in doing so myself, although I will not be able to start for a month or two from now. Is there any guild lines for porting GPLv2 code to GRUB2? I've looked at the GRUB2 wiki but very few things are documented there (http://grub.enbug.org/). I'd like to see what it would take to port the patches. If I can afford it, I'd like to try. I assume you mean GPLv2-only code (as opposed to GPLv2-or-later). First step would be to contact the copyright holders and ask them to relicense under v3-compatible terms (e.g. GPLv2-or-later). Chances are they didn't chose these terms as an act of hostility, but were simply being zealous about allowing something before they knew what it is. If that doesn't work, we'll always have Par^W clean room (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design). -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 08:38:10AM +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote: Edward - please do continue to develop patches for GRUB 1 (the one that still actually works plenty well enough for lots of people) and ignore the naysayers who are happy to throw out backwards compatibility. Sometimes you have to maintain crappy code because people out there depend on it. And we thank those who step up and do it rather than throw their hands up and pretend it doesn't need doing! Btw, I just wanted to add that although we decide to focus on the codebase that has a future, it doesn't bother me at all that GRUB Legacy is useful to others. We made it free software so that it enables as many users as possible to use their computer in freedom, and so that distributors can adopt it despite our disrecommendation. I don't regret that they have the practical means to disagree with us and take a different path. It's precisely the freedom we wanted them to benefit from! Nevertheless, grub-devel is a mailing list for coordination of GRUB 2 development. Most of us are volunteers and our time is quite limited, so bringing up GRUB Legacy development here is at best a distraction. I'll appreciate if you won't do that anymore. Thanks for listening -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Robert Millan r...@aybabtu.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:29:11AM +0800, Peng Tao wrote: It would be great if somebody could take up Edward's work and port it to GRUB 2. If nobody else does then I'd be interested in doing so myself, although I will not be able to start for a month or two from now. Is there any guild lines for porting GPLv2 code to GRUB2? I've looked at the GRUB2 wiki but very few things are documented there (http://grub.enbug.org/). I'd like to see what it would take to port the patches. If I can afford it, I'd like to try. I assume you mean GPLv2-only code (as opposed to GPLv2-or-later). First step would be to contact the copyright holders and ask them to relicense under v3-compatible terms (e.g. GPLv2-or-later). Chances are they didn't chose these terms as an act of hostility, but were simply being zealous about allowing something before they knew what it is. If that doesn't work, we'll always have Par^W clean room (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design). Edward's patch (stage2/fsys_btrfs.c) is declared GPLv2-or-later. But stage2/btrfs.h (which is extracted from btrfs-progs) is GPLv2-only. At the point, we only need a clean room for btrfs.h, right? And I'm not sure what a clean room design in GRUB2 looks like. Is there an example? -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel -- Cheers, Peng Tao State Key Laboratory of Networking and Switching Technology Beijing Univ. of Posts and Telecoms. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Colin Watson cjwat...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:09:51PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 08:38:10AM +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:21:46PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: I'm sorry but GRUB Legacy is not maintained. At least not by us; we've deprecated it in favour of GRUB 2. It is also being abandoned by distributors, so I wouldn't recommend that you put any effort in developing for it. You've been spouting this line for years, and yet my Ubuntu 10.4 machine uses, guess what, GRUB 1. I assume you typoed, since there's no such thing as Ubuntu 10.4 yet. When there is (well, 10.04 anyway), it will use GRUB 2 by default. Edward - please do continue to develop patches for GRUB 1 (the one that still actually works plenty well enough for lots of people) and ignore the naysayers who are happy to throw out backwards compatibility. It would be great if somebody could take up Edward's work and port it to GRUB 2. If nobody else does then I'd be interested in doing so myself, although I will not be able to start for a month or two from now. Is there any guild lines for porting GPLv2 code to GRUB2? I've looked at the GRUB2 wiki but very few things are documented there (http://grub.enbug.org/). I'd like to see what it would take to port the patches. If I can afford it, I'd like to try. Robert is working hard on making GRUB 2 usable, and is just advising Edward that, right now, there is no upstream for GRUB Legacy who could either accept or usefully comment on his patch. It would of course be possible for some people (presumably mostly the distributors who rely on it) to get together and declare themselves the new upstream for GRUB Legacy, but most of the people who might be interested in such things seem to have either lost interest or thrown their weight behind GRUB 2 upstream. Certainly this distributor right here is in the latter camp as it seems much more likely to produce a result that meets our needs in the end. (Plus, I think such a revitalised upstream would be a caretaker at best, and wouldn't really be able to effectively work on some of the major issues that have dogged distributors of GRUB Legacy for years without reinventing the wheel of GRUB 2.) This isn't naysaying those people who post patches for GRUB Legacy - but given the reality that nobody is maintaining GRUB Legacy upstream right now, which is better, to have your patch ignored or to receive a note saying that it's against an unmaintained target? I'd go for not being ignored any day. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-btrfs in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html -- Cheers, Peng Tao State Key Laboratory of Networking and Switching Technology Beijing Univ. of Posts and Telecoms. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 08:38:10AM +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:21:46PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: Hi Edward, I'm sorry but GRUB Legacy is not maintained. At least not by us; we've deprecated it in favour of GRUB 2. It is also being abandoned by distributors, so I wouldn't recommend that you put any effort in developing for it. You've been spouting this line for years, and yet my Ubuntu 10.4 machine uses, guess what, GRUB 1. Mainly because you deprecated GRUB Legacy[tm] well before GRUB 2 was usable. (you in the generic sense of the GRUB project here) Edward - please do continue to develop patches for GRUB 1 (the one that still actually works plenty well enough for lots of people) and ignore the naysayers who are happy to throw out backwards compatibility. Sometimes you have to maintain crappy code because people out there depend on it. And we thank those who step up and do it rather than throw their hands up and pretend it doesn't need doing! I'm not telling anyone what should or shouldn't work with. But if you want to work on a branch we consider deprecated, please do it elsewhere. Discussion regarding GRUB Legacy is off-topic in this list. Thanks -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:09:51PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 08:38:10AM +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:21:46PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: I'm sorry but GRUB Legacy is not maintained. At least not by us; we've deprecated it in favour of GRUB 2. It is also being abandoned by distributors, so I wouldn't recommend that you put any effort in developing for it. You've been spouting this line for years, and yet my Ubuntu 10.4 machine uses, guess what, GRUB 1. I assume you typoed, since there's no such thing as Ubuntu 10.4 yet. When there is (well, 10.04 anyway), it will use GRUB 2 by default. Edward - please do continue to develop patches for GRUB 1 (the one that still actually works plenty well enough for lots of people) and ignore the naysayers who are happy to throw out backwards compatibility. It would be great if somebody could take up Edward's work and port it to GRUB 2. If nobody else does then I'd be interested in doing so myself, although I will not be able to start for a month or two from now. Robert is working hard on making GRUB 2 usable, and is just advising Edward that, right now, there is no upstream for GRUB Legacy who could either accept or usefully comment on his patch. It would of course be possible for some people (presumably mostly the distributors who rely on it) to get together and declare themselves the new upstream for GRUB Legacy, but most of the people who might be interested in such things seem to have either lost interest or thrown their weight behind GRUB 2 upstream. Certainly this distributor right here is in the latter camp as it seems much more likely to produce a result that meets our needs in the end. (Plus, I think such a revitalised upstream would be a caretaker at best, and wouldn't really be able to effectively work on some of the major issues that have dogged distributors of GRUB Legacy for years without reinventing the wheel of GRUB 2.) This isn't naysaying those people who post patches for GRUB Legacy - but given the reality that nobody is maintaining GRUB Legacy upstream right now, which is better, to have your patch ignored or to receive a note saying that it's against an unmaintained target? I'd go for not being ignored any day. -- Colin Watson [cjwat...@ubuntu.com] ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
Am Freitag, den 25.09.2009, 16:01 +0100 schrieb Colin Watson: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:09:51PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 08:38:10AM +1000, Bron Gondwana wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 10:21:46PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote: Edward - please do continue to develop patches for GRUB 1 (the one that still actually works plenty well enough for lots of people) and ignore the naysayers who are happy to throw out backwards compatibility. It would be great if somebody could take up Edward's work and port it to GRUB 2. If nobody else does then I'd be interested in doing so myself, although I will not be able to start for a month or two from now. Whoever wants to do this, needs also solve the problem that st.stat_rdev never matches st.st_dev of the real device. So `grub-probe -t device /' is broken with btrfs. This seems to be wanted: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.btrfs/3609/focus=3610 But I haven't read the other mails in that thread. -- Felix Zielcke Proud Debian Maintainer ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
Hi Edward, I'm sorry but GRUB Legacy is not maintained. At least not by us; we've deprecated it in favour of GRUB 2. It is also being abandoned by distributors, so I wouldn't recommend that you put any effort in developing for it. -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
RE: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH]
Hello! Robert I tend to agree with your statements except for these: At least not by us; we've deprecated it in favour of GRUB 2. It is also being abandoned by distributors, so I wouldn't recommend that you put any effort in developing for it. Edward this simply means that your efforts here are only being commented about. Robert is indeed correct. We are indeed shifting our directions towards the next generation of GRUB now called GRUB 2. Outside of the Debian family of distributions, I am not at all sure if any of the others are indeed switching. For example Slackware still ships with it in their extras directories. (But only for the 12.2 and 13.0 releases and of course just for the regular 32 bit processors. It may be using GRUB 2 for booting IA64 bit versions of Slackware.) Ideally if you feel that this is necessary, then go ahead and do so, also check with your distribution's management team and see if they are interested with your work. This might also include those who do indeed use BTRFS for their work as well. This is the nature and the wonder of the open source world remember. It can be fun, it certainly is surprising. -- Gregg C Levine hansolofal...@worldnet.att.net The Force will be with you always. Obi-Wan Kenobi -Original Message- From: grub-devel-bounces+hansolofalcon=worldnet.att@gnu.org [mailto:grub-devel- bounces+hansolofalcon=worldnet.att@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Robert Millan Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:22 PM To: The development of GRUB 2 Cc: Ric Wheeler; Chris Mason; The development of BTRFS Subject: Re: grub-0.97: btrfs multidevice support [PATCH] Hi Edward, I'm sorry but GRUB Legacy is not maintained. At least not by us; we've deprecated it in favour of GRUB 2. It is also being abandoned by distributors, so I wouldn't recommend that you put any effort in developing for it. -- Robert Millan The DRM opt-in fallacy: Your data belongs to us. We will decide when (and how) you may access your data; but nobody's threatening your freedom: we still allow you to remove your data and not access it at all. ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel ___ Grub-devel mailing list Grub-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
