Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
2009/2/18 Alberto Ruiz : > The idea es that Gtk+ is actually something that enables really cool > things, but we don't empower that idea from the website. > The other point is that bindings seems like second class citizens > whereas it's actually quite the opposite. I think that a lot of the > confusion out there about Gtk+ being written in C is an issue, is that > the documentation that you have in the webpage is all about C. Which > is something that most people shouldn't bother about. > > The other point is that we need other sort of documentation, the > tutorial is nothing but a widget-by-widget manual, not something that > you want to use to learn how to build a useful Gtk+/GNOME app, the > worst thing here is that this is the reference document used by some > binding documentation (pygtk for example) so you spread a C-like api > that doesn't really encourage subclassing and good practices for the > sake of simplicity (useful from the C point of view). > > In this regard "Getting started with gtkmm" looks a much better > approach to me, but since it is under the gtkmm.org umbrella, it > doesn't get that much attention. > > Also, we need screencasts to create really basic apps with Gtkmm or > PyGTK for example, so that people can really get into Gtk+ without > even to follow a text document and start playing. This is how Rails > got millions of developers really excited and faded Django out of the > picture for some time, if you go to the RoR page, you can get a clue > on how to start really easily and figure out what kind of things you > can do. > > At the moment the Gtk+ webpage, although much better than the previous > one, is all a lot of some boring text that doesn't really shows what > Gtk+ can do and doesn't encourage anyone to try it unless you already > know what it is. > > I plan to work on some other mockups of the website for other sections > and I would like to get feedback from you guys. The mockup looks great, and the reasoning makes full sense to me! At the GNOME level, the "part of the GNOME dev platform" label, seems very good. Is it a Gnome initiative? Would it be great if it would be followed by the other components of the platform like GStreamer, cairo, pango, etc., and if the related sites would follow similar patterns so someone developing an application would have a familiar feeling everywhere, as part of one single platform? > > -- > Cheers, > Alberto Ruiz > > ___ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list > > ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
Am Mittwoch, den 18.02.2009, 01:54 + schrieb Alberto Ruiz: > I plan to work on some other mockups of the website for other sections > and I would like to get feedback from you guys. Awesome mockup! Let's get it in place! Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Hasselmann Personal Blog: http://taschenorakel.de/mathias/ Openismus GmbH: http://www.openismus.com/ ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
2009/2/19 Luc Pionchon : > 2009/2/18 Alberto Ruiz : > >> The idea es that Gtk+ is actually something that enables really cool >> things, but we don't empower that idea from the website. >> The other point is that bindings seems like second class citizens >> whereas it's actually quite the opposite. I think that a lot of the >> confusion out there about Gtk+ being written in C is an issue, is that >> the documentation that you have in the webpage is all about C. Which >> is something that most people shouldn't bother about. >> >> The other point is that we need other sort of documentation, the >> tutorial is nothing but a widget-by-widget manual, not something that >> you want to use to learn how to build a useful Gtk+/GNOME app, the >> worst thing here is that this is the reference document used by some >> binding documentation (pygtk for example) so you spread a C-like api >> that doesn't really encourage subclassing and good practices for the >> sake of simplicity (useful from the C point of view). >> >> In this regard "Getting started with gtkmm" looks a much better >> approach to me, but since it is under the gtkmm.org umbrella, it >> doesn't get that much attention. >> >> Also, we need screencasts to create really basic apps with Gtkmm or >> PyGTK for example, so that people can really get into Gtk+ without >> even to follow a text document and start playing. This is how Rails >> got millions of developers really excited and faded Django out of the >> picture for some time, if you go to the RoR page, you can get a clue >> on how to start really easily and figure out what kind of things you >> can do. >> >> At the moment the Gtk+ webpage, although much better than the previous >> one, is all a lot of some boring text that doesn't really shows what >> Gtk+ can do and doesn't encourage anyone to try it unless you already >> know what it is. >> >> I plan to work on some other mockups of the website for other sections >> and I would like to get feedback from you guys. > > The mockup looks great, and the reasoning makes full sense to me! > > At the GNOME level, the "part of the GNOME dev platform" label, seems > very good. Is it a Gnome initiative? Is just an idea, so that people understand easily that you have more components outside of gtk+. Glade for example is not part of Gtk+, but it is an essential tool, we want to give that notion. > Would it be great if it would be > followed by the other components of the platform like GStreamer, > cairo, pango, etc., and if the related sites would follow similar > patterns so someone developing an application would have a familiar > feeling everywhere, as part of one single platform? That's the idea, yeah, seems I'm not that crazy then ;-) -- Un saludo, Alberto Ruiz ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
2009/2/19 Mathias Hasselmann : > Am Mittwoch, den 18.02.2009, 01:54 + schrieb Alberto Ruiz: >> I plan to work on some other mockups of the website for other sections >> and I would like to get feedback from you guys. > > Awesome mockup! Let's get it in place! Well, first I want to come up with some screencasts of Gtkmm/pygtk. I wold also like to get MacSlows interviews from the latest Gtk+ hackfest, or record some testimonials from Gtk+ hackers and users so that people can see that this is a community project and so that they can get excited about it more easily. It won't hurt to start playing around, there are some parts of the page that I'm not sure how to arrange, like the download page. With the runtime or the runtime+headers or the sources, you can't do anything useful really. I would like to have links to the Mac OS X framework, links to Glade and in some future Gtkmm+Eclipse or PyGTK+ bundles, stuff that would make Gtk+ really useful in different platforms, an SDK rather than a library+headers. > Ciao, > Mathias > -- > Mathias Hasselmann > Personal Blog: http://taschenorakel.de/mathias/ > Openismus GmbH: http://www.openismus.com/ > > -- Un saludo, Alberto Ruiz ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
gtk+ documentation wikified
Hi all Since you guys are discussing the redesign of the gtk+ website, I'd like to propose an idea that I have. I've seen quite a lot of comments saying gtk+ documentation isn't as good as qt's. What do you think of having a wiki that documents all of gtk+ api? ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: gtk+ documentation wikified
That's hard-ish to do today. GTK+'s documentation is generated in large part by scanning comments in C code, which a program then turns into HTML. Any proposal would require a way to keep the Wiki and the C comments in-sync. On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky wrote: > Hi all > > Since you guys are discussing the redesign of the gtk+ website, I'd > like to propose an idea that I have. I've seen quite a lot of comments > saying gtk+ documentation isn't as good as qt's. What do you think of > having a wiki that documents all of gtk+ api? > ___ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list > -- Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums. ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Fwd: gtk+ documentation wikified
Have there been cases where documentation for some function was changed after that function appeared in the stable version? 2009/2/19 Dominic Lachowicz : > That's hard-ish to do today. GTK+'s documentation is generated in > large part by scanning comments in C code, which a program then turns > into HTML. Any proposal would require a way to keep the Wiki and the C > comments in-sync. > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky > wrote: >> Hi all >> >> Since you guys are discussing the redesign of the gtk+ website, I'd >> like to propose an idea that I have. I've seen quite a lot of comments >> saying gtk+ documentation isn't as good as qt's. What do you think of >> having a wiki that documents all of gtk+ api? >> ___ >> gtk-devel-list mailing list >> gtk-devel-list@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list >> > > > > -- > Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums. > ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: gtk+ documentation wikified
Yes. The most common example I can think of is when a function is deprecated. On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky wrote: > Have there been cases where documentation for some function was > changed after that function appeared in the stable version? > > 2009/2/19 Dominic Lachowicz : >> That's hard-ish to do today. GTK+'s documentation is generated in >> large part by scanning comments in C code, which a program then turns >> into HTML. Any proposal would require a way to keep the Wiki and the C >> comments in-sync. >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky >> wrote: >>> Hi all >>> >>> Since you guys are discussing the redesign of the gtk+ website, I'd >>> like to propose an idea that I have. I've seen quite a lot of comments >>> saying gtk+ documentation isn't as good as qt's. What do you think of >>> having a wiki that documents all of gtk+ api? >>> ___ >>> gtk-devel-list mailing list >>> gtk-devel-list@gnome.org >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums. >> > -- Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums. ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: gtk+ documentation wikified
Am Donnerstag, den 19.02.2009, 10:33 -0500 schrieb Dominic Lachowicz: > That's hard-ish to do today. GTK+'s documentation is generated in > large part by scanning comments in C code, which a program then turns > into HTML. Any proposal would require a way to keep the Wiki and the C > comments in-sync. Still that proposed idea has some merits: Currently entry barrier for fixing GTK+ docs still is quite high. Guess the most trivial fix would be, to do what the PHP community does and attach some comment system/forum to library.gnome.org. More sophisticated would be some application that allows editing of API docs via web site and provides some way to easily merge them back. Maybe automatic commits to some separate branch? Maybe just additions to some patch queue? Don't know. But maybe a nice SoC project? Ciao, Mathias > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky > wrote: > > Hi all > > > > Since you guys are discussing the redesign of the gtk+ website, I'd > > like to propose an idea that I have. I've seen quite a lot of comments > > saying gtk+ documentation isn't as good as qt's. What do you think of > > having a wiki that documents all of gtk+ api? > > ___ > > gtk-devel-list mailing list > > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list > > > > > -- Mathias Hasselmann Personal Blog: http://taschenorakel.de/mathias/ Openismus GmbH: http://www.openismus.com/ ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Fwd: gtk+ documentation wikified
Am Donnerstag, den 19.02.2009, 17:52 +0200 schrieb Eugene Gorodinsky: > Have there been cases where documentation for some function was > changed after that function appeared in the stable version? Yes, this happens frequently: Spelling errors, explanations of limitations, code examples, usage scenarios, ... In the end programmers primary are programmers, not book writers. Therefore API documentation provided by programmers always can be just a start. Still API documentation should be close to programmer's finger tips, 'cause otherwise the documentation will start to bit rot quickly. Ciao, Mathias > > 2009/2/19 Dominic Lachowicz : > > That's hard-ish to do today. GTK+'s documentation is generated in > > large part by scanning comments in C code, which a program then turns > > into HTML. Any proposal would require a way to keep the Wiki and -the C > > comments in-sync. > > > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky > > wrote: > >> Hi all > >> > >> Since you guys are discussing the redesign of the gtk+ website, I'd > >> like to propose an idea that I have. I've seen quite a lot of comments > >> saying gtk+ documentation isn't as good as qt's. What do you think of > >> having a wiki that documents all of gtk+ api? > >> ___ > >> gtk-devel-list mailing list > >> gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums. > > > ___ > gtk-devel-list mailing list > gtk-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list > -- Mathias Hasselmann Personal Blog: http://taschenorakel.de/mathias/ Openismus GmbH: http://www.openismus.com/ ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Fwd: gtk+ documentation wikified
A way to overcome that, would be to put a warning on the wiki page whenever the documentation for a function is updated, so that the users could see the updated comment in the code and update the documentation accordingly. P.S. Sorry for sending the message twice 2009/2/19 Dominic Lachowicz : > Yes. The most common example I can think of is when a function is deprecated. > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky > wrote: >> Have there been cases where documentation for some function was >> changed after that function appeared in the stable version? >> >> 2009/2/19 Dominic Lachowicz : >>> That's hard-ish to do today. GTK+'s documentation is generated in >>> large part by scanning comments in C code, which a program then turns >>> into HTML. Any proposal would require a way to keep the Wiki and the C >>> comments in-sync. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:28 AM, Eugene Gorodinsky >>> wrote: Hi all Since you guys are discussing the redesign of the gtk+ website, I'd like to propose an idea that I have. I've seen quite a lot of comments saying gtk+ documentation isn't as good as qt's. What do you think of having a wiki that documents all of gtk+ api? ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums. >>> >> > > > > -- > Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums. > ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: gtk+ documentation wikified
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 16:56 +0100, Mathias Hasselmann wrote: > Am Donnerstag, den 19.02.2009, 10:33 -0500 schrieb Dominic Lachowicz: > > That's hard-ish to do today. GTK+'s documentation is generated in > > large part by scanning comments in C code, which a program then turns > > into HTML. Any proposal would require a way to keep the Wiki and the C > > comments in-sync. > > Still that proposed idea has some merits: Currently entry barrier for > fixing GTK+ docs still is quite high. > > Guess the most trivial fix would be, to do what the PHP community does > and attach some comment system/forum to library.gnome.org. > > More sophisticated would be some application that allows editing of API > docs via web site and provides some way to easily merge them back. Maybe > automatic commits to some separate branch? Maybe just additions to some > patch queue? Don't know. But maybe a nice SoC project? I wish that someone could just finish Danilo's live-document-editing GSOC project: http://live.gnome.org/LiveDocumentationEditing -- murr...@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 14:00 +, Alberto Ruiz wrote: > Well, first I want to come up with some screencasts of Gtkmm/pygtk That would be great. I suggest that you get us to approve a script first though, otherwise there's sure to be some little inaccuracy that I find annoying but which would be very difficult to correct in the finished video. -- murr...@murrayc.com www.murrayc.com www.openismus.com ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
2009/2/19 Murray Cumming : > On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 14:00 +, Alberto Ruiz wrote: >> Well, first I want to come up with some screencasts of Gtkmm/pygtk > > That would be great. I suggest that you get us to approve a script first > though, otherwise there's sure to be some little inaccuracy that I find > annoying but which would be very difficult to correct in the finished > video. That's actually a good idea, I'll poke jdahlin as well. > > -- > murr...@murrayc.com > www.murrayc.com > www.openismus.com > > -- Un saludo, Alberto Ruiz ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
2009/2/19 Mathias Hasselmann : > Am Mittwoch, den 18.02.2009, 01:54 + schrieb Alberto Ruiz: >> I plan to work on some other mockups of the website for other sections >> and I would like to get feedback from you guys. > > Awesome mockup! Let's get it in place! Also, my HTML/CSS-fu is quite lame. I definitively need help implementing the site, web volunteers are welcome! I can work on the graphics and the content though. > Ciao, > Mathias > -- > Mathias Hasselmann > Personal Blog: http://taschenorakel.de/mathias/ > Openismus GmbH: http://www.openismus.com/ > > -- Un saludo, Alberto Ruiz ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
WebKit on webkit.gtk.org
Heya, I'm one of the WebKitGtk fellows and one thing we are missing currently is a place on the web, where you can find releases, docs and whatnot. So we had the idea, "webkit.gtk.org" would be a good domain. We would also like to use a similar design and layout, of course with different colours and content. It's not yet clear what web space we would be using, if that is possible a bit of space for tarballs would be useful (release tarballs for WebKitGtk are not that heavy, in case somebody is worried and has the size of all of WebKit in mind). So the question is, would the Gtk maintainers like the idea of using the 'webkit.gtk.org' subdomain for WebKit? And if the above is an option, whether there's space to spare and whether we could or shouldn't use a similar design. ciao, Christian ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: [...] > + GTK+ 2.16 status (mclasen) > - new API has been merged > - still missing: GtkActivatable (may be ready for next week) Sorry I missed the last meeting, is there anything you need me to do for GtkActivatables ? Cheers, -Tristan ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: minutes of the gtk+ team meeting - 2009-01-20
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Tristan Van Berkom wrote: > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Emmanuele Bassi > > Sorry I missed the last meeting, is there anything you need me > to do for GtkActivatables ? I don't think so. I did another round of fixes to make PolicyKit-gnome work. Now waiting for the next round of breakage.. ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
Re: Bulding client-side-windows branch
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 09:51:32AM +0100, Alexander Larsson wrote: > On Mon, 2009-02-09 at 18:27 -0800, C.J. Adams-Collier wrote: > > Hey folks, > > > > I'm having a problem building gtk from Alex's branch. Am I doing > > something wrong? I had jhbuild take care of building the deps and got > > a jhbuild shell before starting the build. I ran configure this way: > > > > ./configure --prefix=/opt/gnome --disable-gtk-doc > > > > make gives me this (truncated, of course) > > I assume you ran autogen.sh first? > > I have no idea why this is happening, with respect to the gdk-pixbuf > directory the csw branch is an identical copy to the normal gtk. > I think it had to do with the PATH including the system glib bins before the jhbuild bins. I'll give it another go here shortly. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
