Re: [guadec-list] gender field in registration system
The reason this has been brought up is because there were been complaints in previous years from people who were contacted and did not want to receive the mail. Coincidentally, the gender field is not being used for contacting people this year as per the first email from Marina. I did not fill it in and I have been contacted already. This sort of behaviour is what polarises people over the issue. It doesn't help that the same email has already been sent to gnome-women-list as well. On 4 August 2015 at 20:11, Christopher Svanefalk christopher.svanef...@gmail.com wrote: IANAL, but the way I read the law regarding unsolicited email, it simply means you should not be sending existing or potential consumers any solicitation for commercial products or services. In this case we are just sending a friendly notice that there will be a women's dinner, and a pointer who to speak to. If you really want to get deep with it, I am sure we are already violating 50-some other regulations already that we are not even aware of, anyway. This one is not really even a violation. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:55 PM Pascal Terjan pter...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 August 2015 at 17:44, Mattias Bengtsson mattias.jc.bengts...@gmail.com wrote: On tis, 2015-08-04 at 14:23 +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya marina...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandre, Hey, Thank you for relating this. I think the downside of someone getting an invitation they are not interested in is relatively small, so it's probably not worth having a separate checkbox for opt in for an invitation. I know people prefer to keep the registration page short. That's because you're in a US-centric mindset. There's a difference between the law in the US and in Europe: US is opt-out by default, Europe is opt-in by default. European people see unsolicited contact as a very bad thing, and the usual Here's a piece of information about our thing, if you don't want to hear from us again just unsubscribe using the link at the bottom is actually not ok. Oh come on! It's just an E-mail. It's not like anyone's getting unwanted phone calls, it's also directly related to an event you have signed up for. But is there a way to say we don't want to receive any email? If not we can't use the address to send emails related to the conference or not. This is required by european law (at the time when the email is collected, and again in each email). http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32002L0058:en:HTML Also the thing about European vs American mindset... Neither Europeans nor US citizens are homogeneous groups. The opinions will surely differ more between citizens inside a country or continent than the aggregate opinion will differ between continents and countries. ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list -- Best, Christopher Svanefalk Web: http://www.csvanefalk.com GitHub: https://github.com/csvan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/csvanefalk Cell: +46762628251 Skype: csvanefalk ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
Re: [guadec-list] gender field in registration system
Better to just please everybody, I guess, if there really are people who feel that strongly about it. Perhaps a public notice will be enough for this year, so we can do it more properly next year. On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 6:24 PM Ekaterina Gerasimova kittykat3...@gmail.com wrote: The reason this has been brought up is because there were been complaints in previous years from people who were contacted and did not want to receive the mail. Coincidentally, the gender field is not being used for contacting people this year as per the first email from Marina. I did not fill it in and I have been contacted already. This sort of behaviour is what polarises people over the issue. It doesn't help that the same email has already been sent to gnome-women-list as well. On 4 August 2015 at 20:11, Christopher Svanefalk christopher.svanef...@gmail.com wrote: IANAL, but the way I read the law regarding unsolicited email, it simply means you should not be sending existing or potential consumers any solicitation for commercial products or services. In this case we are just sending a friendly notice that there will be a women's dinner, and a pointer who to speak to. If you really want to get deep with it, I am sure we are already violating 50-some other regulations already that we are not even aware of, anyway. This one is not really even a violation. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:55 PM Pascal Terjan pter...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 August 2015 at 17:44, Mattias Bengtsson mattias.jc.bengts...@gmail.com wrote: On tis, 2015-08-04 at 14:23 +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya marina...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandre, Hey, Thank you for relating this. I think the downside of someone getting an invitation they are not interested in is relatively small, so it's probably not worth having a separate checkbox for opt in for an invitation. I know people prefer to keep the registration page short. That's because you're in a US-centric mindset. There's a difference between the law in the US and in Europe: US is opt-out by default, Europe is opt-in by default. European people see unsolicited contact as a very bad thing, and the usual Here's a piece of information about our thing, if you don't want to hear from us again just unsubscribe using the link at the bottom is actually not ok. Oh come on! It's just an E-mail. It's not like anyone's getting unwanted phone calls, it's also directly related to an event you have signed up for. But is there a way to say we don't want to receive any email? If not we can't use the address to send emails related to the conference or not. This is required by european law (at the time when the email is collected, and again in each email). http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32002L0058:en:HTML Also the thing about European vs American mindset... Neither Europeans nor US citizens are homogeneous groups. The opinions will surely differ more between citizens inside a country or continent than the aggregate opinion will differ between continents and countries. ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list -- Best, Christopher Svanefalk Web: http://www.csvanefalk.com GitHub: https://github.com/csvan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/csvanefalk Cell: +46762628251 Skype: csvanefalk ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list -- Best, Christopher Svanefalk Web: http://www.csvanefalk.com GitHub: https://github.com/csvan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/csvanefalk Cell: +46762628251 Skype: csvanefalk ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
Re: [guadec-list] gender field in registration system
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya marina...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandre, Hey, Thank you for relating this. I think the downside of someone getting an invitation they are not interested in is relatively small, so it's probably not worth having a separate checkbox for opt in for an invitation. I know people prefer to keep the registration page short. That's because you're in a US-centric mindset. There's a difference between the law in the US and in Europe: US is opt-out by default, Europe is opt-in by default. European people see unsolicited contact as a very bad thing, and the usual Here's a piece of information about our thing, if you don't want to hear from us again just unsubscribe using the link at the bottom is actually not ok. So while I'm all for short registration form, I prefer having one more checkbox in it and making a decision at this time rather than getting more noise in my inbox and having to jump through hoops to get rid of it. No thanks rather than Please go away now. However, I don't mind us having it in the future if more people think that's the best way to go. Yes, we can change it next year. Too late for this year. I agree that getting multiple e-mails is annoying. I added a note about sending individual invitations to the wiki page about the dinner, so that we preserve it for future years, and related it to Rosanna, who is organizing the dinner this year, as well. Thanks. -- Alexandre Franke ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
Re: [guadec-list] gender field in registration system
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:44 PM Mattias Bengtsson mattias.jc.bengts...@gmail.com wrote: On tis, 2015-08-04 at 14:23 +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya marina...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandre, Hey, Thank you for relating this. I think the downside of someone getting an invitation they are not interested in is relatively small, so it's probably not worth having a separate checkbox for opt in for an invitation. I know people prefer to keep the registration page short. That's because you're in a US-centric mindset. There's a difference between the law in the US and in Europe: US is opt-out by default, Europe is opt-in by default. European people see unsolicited contact as a very bad thing, and the usual Here's a piece of information about our thing, if you don't want to hear from us again just unsubscribe using the link at the bottom is actually not ok. Oh come on! It's just an E-mail. It's not like anyone's getting unwanted phone calls, it's also directly related to an event you have signed up for. Also the thing about European vs American mindset... Neither Europeans nor US citizens are homogeneous groups. The opinions will surely differ more between citizens inside a country or continent than the aggregate opinion will differ between continents and countries. Regards, Mattias +1 ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list -- Best, Christopher Svanefalk Web: http://www.csvanefalk.com GitHub: https://github.com/csvan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/csvanefalk Cell: +46762628251 Skype: csvanefalk ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
Re: [guadec-list] gender field in registration system
On 4 August 2015 at 17:44, Mattias Bengtsson mattias.jc.bengts...@gmail.com wrote: On tis, 2015-08-04 at 14:23 +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya marina...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandre, Hey, Thank you for relating this. I think the downside of someone getting an invitation they are not interested in is relatively small, so it's probably not worth having a separate checkbox for opt in for an invitation. I know people prefer to keep the registration page short. That's because you're in a US-centric mindset. There's a difference between the law in the US and in Europe: US is opt-out by default, Europe is opt-in by default. European people see unsolicited contact as a very bad thing, and the usual Here's a piece of information about our thing, if you don't want to hear from us again just unsubscribe using the link at the bottom is actually not ok. Oh come on! It's just an E-mail. It's not like anyone's getting unwanted phone calls, it's also directly related to an event you have signed up for. But is there a way to say we don't want to receive any email? If not we can't use the address to send emails related to the conference or not. This is required by european law (at the time when the email is collected, and again in each email). http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32002L0058:en:HTML Also the thing about European vs American mindset... Neither Europeans nor US citizens are homogeneous groups. The opinions will surely differ more between citizens inside a country or continent than the aggregate opinion will differ between continents and countries. ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
Re: [guadec-list] gender field in registration system
On tis, 2015-08-04 at 14:23 +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya marina...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandre, Hey, Thank you for relating this. I think the downside of someone getting an invitation they are not interested in is relatively small, so it's probably not worth having a separate checkbox for opt in for an invitation. I know people prefer to keep the registration page short. That's because you're in a US-centric mindset. There's a difference between the law in the US and in Europe: US is opt-out by default, Europe is opt-in by default. European people see unsolicited contact as a very bad thing, and the usual Here's a piece of information about our thing, if you don't want to hear from us again just unsubscribe using the link at the bottom is actually not ok. Oh come on! It's just an E-mail. It's not like anyone's getting unwanted phone calls, it's also directly related to an event you have signed up for. Also the thing about European vs American mindset... Neither Europeans nor US citizens are homogeneous groups. The opinions will surely differ more between citizens inside a country or continent than the aggregate opinion will differ between continents and countries. Regards, Mattias ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
Re: [guadec-list] gender field in registration system
IANAL, but the way I read the law regarding unsolicited email, it simply means you should not be sending existing or potential consumers any solicitation for commercial products or services. In this case we are just sending a friendly notice that there will be a women's dinner, and a pointer who to speak to. If you really want to get deep with it, I am sure we are already violating 50-some other regulations already that we are not even aware of, anyway. This one is not really even a violation. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:55 PM Pascal Terjan pter...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 August 2015 at 17:44, Mattias Bengtsson mattias.jc.bengts...@gmail.com wrote: On tis, 2015-08-04 at 14:23 +0200, Alexandre Franke wrote: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:08 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya marina...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandre, Hey, Thank you for relating this. I think the downside of someone getting an invitation they are not interested in is relatively small, so it's probably not worth having a separate checkbox for opt in for an invitation. I know people prefer to keep the registration page short. That's because you're in a US-centric mindset. There's a difference between the law in the US and in Europe: US is opt-out by default, Europe is opt-in by default. European people see unsolicited contact as a very bad thing, and the usual Here's a piece of information about our thing, if you don't want to hear from us again just unsubscribe using the link at the bottom is actually not ok. Oh come on! It's just an E-mail. It's not like anyone's getting unwanted phone calls, it's also directly related to an event you have signed up for. But is there a way to say we don't want to receive any email? If not we can't use the address to send emails related to the conference or not. This is required by european law (at the time when the email is collected, and again in each email). http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32002L0058:en:HTML Also the thing about European vs American mindset... Neither Europeans nor US citizens are homogeneous groups. The opinions will surely differ more between citizens inside a country or continent than the aggregate opinion will differ between continents and countries. ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list -- Best, Christopher Svanefalk Web: http://www.csvanefalk.com GitHub: https://github.com/csvan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/csvanefalk Cell: +46762628251 Skype: csvanefalk ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
Re: [guadec-list] gender field in registration system
On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya marina...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Hi, We will not publish gender data. It will only be used for attendee statistics and for an invitation to the women's dinner. Can you try and handle this better than last year please? There were two issues. First, at least one person was contacted that wasn't interested in the women's dinner. I'd need to check, but I'm not even sure she actually filled in the field as female (she may have left it blank), so there could have been some guesswork on your side. Anyway there should be a way to opt out of the invitation, or better yet the invitation should be opt in and separate from the field. The second issue was that, if I recall correctly, you sent an email with all the invited people in the To or CC field. The consequence is that if you're not interested in the dinner, people keep you in the list of recipients and you keep getting email about something you have no interest in. All of this is from memory and I have no quick way to check my facts. I'm sorry if I got parts wrong, but I think this are details you should pay attention to. Cheers. -- Alexandre Franke ___ guadec-list mailing list guadec-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
