Re: What are the specs for your guix server?

[Julien Lepiller]

It's relatively small. 8 cores, 8 GB of RAM, 1 TB of disk and good bandwidth 
for 150€/year. Serving the videos just require some bandwidth, no processing. I 
don't really have numbers for that, but I would be surprised if more than two 
people downloaded videos at the same time.

On March 2, 2022 12:36:04 AM GMT+01:00, jbra...@dismail.de wrote:
>March 1, 2022 5:36 PM, "Julien Lepiller"  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I changed the default format and published the .ass file on my 
>> server. Not sure about the
>> other files.
>
>I was pretty impressed that you were able to serve/host those videos.  How 
>powerful is your server?  May I ask how much it costs you?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joshua
>
>> 
>> On March 1, 2022 11:08:50 PM GMT+01:00, Tanguy LE CARROUR 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Julien,
>>> 
>>> Quoting Julien Lepiller (2022-03-01 15:36:19)
>>> 
 I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
 talks. […] Please send me the subtitles once
 they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.
>>> 
>>> It's my first time, so thank you for your indulgence! :-)
>>> 
>>> I'm attaching my humble contribution:
>>> 
>>> - `.txt` the transcription ;
>>> - `.ass` the file created by Aegisub ; and
>>> - `.sub` an attempt to export it to sub format.
>>> 
>>> I have to admit that is pretty bad "punctuation-wise", because I was not
>>> sure were the sentences started and ended. Sorry!
>>> 
>>> Just let me know if I have to fix anything.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tanguy

Re: Statement from the Guix maintainers regarding recent events

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hi Mark,

Mark H Weaver  writes:

> Hi Maxim,
>
> Maxim Cournoyer  writes:
>
>> * The person who lacked judgment and caused hurt by repeatedly pushing
>>   their exclusionary views onto our community have been removed from the
>>   trusted list, meaning each of their messages will now have to go
>>   through moderation.
>
> Can you please cite the specific language in our Code of Conduct[*] that
> you believe justifies this enforcement action, along with the offending
> quotes by the accused person?

Let's not rehash the story yet again.  I think the archived thread
speaks for itself.  If not, you can contact us guix-maintainers
privately if there is really something unclear or which needs further
explaining, and I'll do my best to answer your questions there.

Thank you,

Maxim

Re: Statement from the Guix maintainers regarding recent events

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

Hi Mark,

Maxim wasn't directly involved.  Neither was the CoC.  I was.

If you're really curious about what happened you can read the past days' 
archived threads in which Taylan participated.

We're not going to rehash them here.

Kind regards,

T G-R

Sent on the go.  Excuse or enjoy my brevity.

Re: Statement from the Guix maintainers regarding recent events

[Mark H Weaver]

Hi Maxim,

Maxim Cournoyer  writes:

> * The person who lacked judgment and caused hurt by repeatedly pushing
>   their exclusionary views onto our community have been removed from the
>   trusted list, meaning each of their messages will now have to go
>   through moderation.

Can you please cite the specific language in our Code of Conduct[*] that
you believe justifies this enforcement action, along with the offending
quotes by the accused person?

  Thanks,
Mark

[*] Specifically, the version that was in force at the time of the
alleged violations.
-- 
Disinformation flourishes because many people care deeply about injustice
but very few check the facts.  Ask me about .

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt]

  On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 18:18:42 -0500 Matt  wrote 

 > I've started working on the "Dreaming of better patch review".  This is 
 > great steno practice!

Got to about the 9:21 mark. Putting my work so far here in case I get abducted 
by aliens before I can complete it.

Guix - Packaging tutorial-R8DtPnP4eL8.ass
Description: Binary data

What are the specs for your guix server?

[jbranso]

March 1, 2022 5:36 PM, "Julien Lepiller"  wrote:

> Thanks, I changed the default format and published the .ass file on my 
> server. Not sure about the
> other files.

I was pretty impressed that you were able to serve/host those videos.  How 
powerful is your server?  May I ask how much it costs you?

Thanks,

Joshua

> 
> On March 1, 2022 11:08:50 PM GMT+01:00, Tanguy LE CARROUR 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Julien,
>> 
>> Quoting Julien Lepiller (2022-03-01 15:36:19)
>> 
>>> I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
>>> talks. […] Please send me the subtitles once
>>> they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.
>> 
>> It's my first time, so thank you for your indulgence! :-)
>> 
>> I'm attaching my humble contribution:
>> 
>> - `.txt` the transcription ;
>> - `.ass` the file created by Aegisub ; and
>> - `.sub` an attempt to export it to sub format.
>> 
>> I have to admit that is pretty bad "punctuation-wise", because I was not
>> sure were the sentences started and ended. Sorry!
>> 
>> Just let me know if I have to fix anything.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> --
>> Tanguy

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Matt]

  On Tue, 01 Mar 2022 09:36:19 -0500 Julien Lepiller  
wrote 
 > Hi Guix!
 > 
 > I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
 > talks. It would be great for people who are not very good with spoken
 > English but who can still understand text.
 > 
 > We have created a pad with the list of videos and steps to coordinate
 > and make sure we don't all work on the same videos. Please add you name
 > in front of the video you want to create subtitles for:
 > 
 > https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/guixdays2022-videosubtitles-9stl
 > 
 > You can use aegisub to create the subtitles. Note that it's a lot of
 > work (typically 1 hour for ~10 minutes of video), so I'd be glad for any
 > work you can do, even if it's partial. Please send me the subtitles once
 > they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.
 > 
 
I've started working on the "Dreaming of better patch review".  This is great 
steno practice!

Aegisub kept crashing when setting hotkeys, but I was able to set some up that 
make navigation easier.  

In the "subtitle edit box", I added:
Alt-P audio/play/line
Ctrl-N time/next
Ctrl-P time/prev

This is allows me to navigate by lines, play the audio for that section, and 
then press Return to "commit" what I wrote for the subtitle.

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Julien Lepiller]

Thanks, I changed the default format and published the .ass file on my server. 
Not sure about the other files.

On March 1, 2022 11:08:50 PM GMT+01:00, Tanguy LE CARROUR 
 wrote:
>Hi Julien,
>
>
>Quoting Julien Lepiller (2022-03-01 15:36:19)
>> I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
>> talks. […] Please send me the subtitles once
>> they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.
>
>It's my first time, so thank you for your indulgence! :-)
>
>I'm attaching my humble contribution:
>
>- `.txt` the transcription ;
>- `.ass` the file created by Aegisub ; and
>- `.sub` an attempt to export it to sub format.
>
>I have to admit that is pretty bad "punctuation-wise", because I was not
>sure were the sentences started and ended. Sorry!
>
>Just let me know if I have to fix anything.
>
>Regards,
>
>-- 
>Tanguy

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Tanguy LE CARROUR]

Hi Julien,


Quoting Julien Lepiller (2022-03-01 15:36:19)
> I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
> talks. […] Please send me the subtitles once
> they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.

It's my first time, so thank you for your indulgence! :-)

I'm attaching my humble contribution:

- `.txt` the transcription ;
- `.ass` the file created by Aegisub ; and
- `.sub` an attempt to export it to sub format.

I have to admit that is pretty bad "punctuation-wise", because I was not
sure were the sentences started and ended. Sorry!

Just let me know if I have to fix anything.

Regards,

-- 
Tanguyhello everyone
nice to have you here at Guix Days 2022
I would like to talk about Python build system
and why we need to modernize it
python-build-system is the Guix component
that turns the source distribution of any Python package out there
into an installable image
so, basically, a directory under the GNU store
let's have a look at tomli a quite simple Python package
which has no external dependencies
so, if we import it using `guix import`, here
add a few imports to the resulting file
and then try to build it
it should work out of the box, right?
The problem is, it does not!
and instead we see at the bottom
an error message saying "no setup.py found"
and, indeed, if we look at the source distribution
there is no `setup.py` to be found anywhere
So, what is going on?
Fortunately, this package is already available in Guix
as `python-tomli`
so we can have a look at its definition
to see how it is currently built
let's just do that
looking at the build system's arguments
we see the phases `build` here and `install` here
which are usually provided by Python build system
replaced with custom code
I'm only showing the interesting parts here
the actual commands are actually much longer
first the build phase
uses a Python module called `build`
to build the wheel, as we can see here
the wheel is basically a distribution format in the Python world
then in the install phase
we simply use a well known tool called Pip
to install the wheel that we just built
into the output which would be somewhere around the GNU store
so how does the build module knows what to do
what to build?
it follows PEP 517
PEPs are kind of the RFCs of the Python world
and this PEP basically splits building wheels into two parts
a frontend and a backend
the frontend is the user facing part
for example the `build` we just saw here
this is the user facing part of the build process
and then a backend
the frontend is supposed to read a file called `pyproject.toml`
this is what we are seeing here
and in that TOML file, a section called `build-system`
this one here
declares which backend will actually build our wheel
and, in this case, another package called `flit_core`
its requirements a build time dependency of tomli
and its module `flit_core.buildapi`
is providing us with the build entrypoint.
The file also contains standardize metadata
and tool related configuration data
which I'm not showing here
A PEP 517* compatible build backend
provides a standard function entrypoint
called `build_wheel`
in the module I just referenced here in the top
and, if we call it, it will just do its magic
and it will produce a wheel file
and its first argument it's the wheel directory
that wheel is basically a zip file
with a predefined structure
that we can extract into our store
and we are almost done
and this is what Pip does in the install phase here
and that's basically the entire build process
as specified by PEP 517
there is no `setup.py` involved any more
we don't have to call it
we don't have to create it as a package provider
so the reason why the error message I showed, showed up earlier
will keep on poping up more and more
is simple: we are late!
we are really really late, actually
because PEP 517 was originally created in 2015
and that it gained provisional acceptance in 2017
and just last year,
after being basically being the *de facto* successor of `setup.py` for some time
it has been finalized and fully accepted
and more importantly, flit which you remember from the previous slide
is also able to create source distributions
and upload them to PyPI
Python public package repository basically
so far, it has been generating a `setup.py`
and does nobody really noticed
but since version 3.5, which was released in November 2021
flit stop doing that by default
and thus we are seeing more and more packages without `setup.py`
in their source distributions
and so we are basically unable to build this projects right now
or this Python modules
a look at the Guix's repository in late January
and back then only 11 packages actually used Pip
or PyPA build as we've seen
but I think our ecosystem is quite old
about half the packages not being the latest versions available upstream
according to `guix refresh`
so it's possible that more packages actually require support for this 
`pyproject.toml`
and we simply have not updated them yet for 

Re: Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Luis Felipe]

Hi,

On Tuesday, March 1st, 2022 at 2:36 PM, Julien Lepiller  
wrote:

> You can use aegisub to create the subtitles.

Just wanted to mention that there's also an application called Gaupol, which 
people new to subtitling may find less intimidating. You can save to WebVTT 
format.

These are the basic steps to use it:

https://github.com/otsaloma/gaupol/blob/master/doc/creating-subtitles.md

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Re: Statement from the Guix maintainers regarding recent events

[Kaelyn]

Hi Maxim and the other Guix maintainers,

As a new-ish Guix user, fledgling contributer, and fairly quiet list member for 
whom those recent discussions hit close to home, I would like to thank you all 
for your handling of the situation. I also thank you for sending the statement 
about the resolution of the events. The threads were emotionally too difficult 
for me to keep following them, and seeing this statement has again re-affirmed 
my faith in the Guix community and the consideration and respect I have 
observed in it over the past nine months. Again, I give you my heart-felt 
thanks.

Cheers,
Kaelyn

Re: Statement from the Guix maintainers regarding recent events

[Ekaitz Zarraga]

Hi,

Thanks for the decision you have taken here, it was a difficult one.

>From my side I want to publicly apologize to those who thought
(very accurately) my tone was harsh.

That being said, it looks like we reached some understanding
together and that's a reason for celebration.

I hope we keep in the good direction.

Thanks for handling this.

Ekaitz

Re: How to use Guix with sssd, not nscd, on a foreign distro?

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

Ludovic Courtès  skribis:

> Chris Marusich  skribis:
>
>> The Guix manual recommends running nscd:
>>
>> https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Application-Setup.html
>>
>> However, Fedora intends to remove it:
>>
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveNSCD
>
> D’oh!  This is bad.  It might suggest that nscd will vanish from glibc
> as well, given it’s partly developed by the same group of people.

Carlos O’Donell (of glibc) was kind enough to start a discussion
explaining why this is a concern for Guix (and Nix and others) and
proposing possible ways forward:

  https://sourceware.org/pipermail/libc-alpha/2022-February/136741.html

continued:

  https://sourceware.org/pipermail/libc-alpha/2022-March/thread.html#136745

Ludo’.

Re: workflow while hacking on Shepherd

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi!

The Shepherd is decoupled from Guix.  In general, when hacking on it,
you should think of it as an independent piece of software, a user of
which is Guix.

A corollary is that there are well-defined interfaces between the two.
Usually, you cannot add a new interface in the Shepherd an expect to use
it right away in Guix System.

In particular, when running ‘guix system reconfigure’, you have to keep
in mind that the last step, which injects new services (or service
replacements) into the running PID 1, is potentially talking to an old
shepherd that does not implement the latest and greatest
interfaces—think of a machine that hasn’t been rebooted in ages.

That said, it’s often useful to test Shepherd changes in Guix System, of
course.  To do that, you can modify the ‘shepherd’ field of
 so that it points to your local package
variant.

I’m afraid I’m not really answering your questions, but I hope it makes
some kind of sense.  :-)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Statement from the Guix maintainers regarding recent events

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hi everyone,

Given the recent action from one community member on this list that led
to multiple people feeling hurt or uneasy about the whole situation, we,
the Guix maintainers collective, would like to reaffirm our commitment
to protect our community against such actions.

The Guix community has historically been a very inclusive, welcoming and
safe harbor for everyone to enjoy hacking together, and we'd like it to
remain that way.  The Code of Conduct that everyone interacting in our
community implicitly agrees to follow has demonstrated its usefulness in
keeping the (thankfully rare) abusive actors at bay.

To reduce the chance of a similar situation reoccurring in the future,
the Guix maintainers have acted on the following:

* The person who lacked judgment and caused hurt by repeatedly pushing
  their exclusionary views onto our community have been removed from the
  trusted list, meaning each of their messages will now have to go
  through moderation.

* Our Code of Conduct copy has been upgraded to its latest version.

* A header to the Code of Conduct now mentions any
  suggestions/discussion with regard to the Code of Conduct should now
  go through the Guix maintainers rather than in the public fora.

We hope that we as a community can grow stronger and more united in the
aftermath of this regrettable event.

Sincerely,

Maxim
On behalf of the Guix maintainers

Creating subtitles for the Guix Days videos!

[Julien Lepiller]

Hi Guix!

I'm looking for volunteers to create English subtitles for the Guix Days
talks. It would be great for people who are not very good with spoken
English but who can still understand text.

We have created a pad with the list of videos and steps to coordinate
and make sure we don't all work on the same videos. Please add you name
in front of the video you want to create subtitles for:

https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/guixdays2022-videosubtitles-9stl

You can use aegisub to create the subtitles. Note that it's a lot of
work (typically 1 hour for ~10 minutes of video), so I'd be glad for any
work you can do, even if it's partial. Please send me the subtitles once
they are completed, I'll add them with the videos.

Re: workflow while hacking on Shepherd

[Oliver Propst]

On 2022-03-01 08:59, Attila Lendvai wrote:

Hi Attlila thanks for working on this. For me your proposal seems to 
make sense (but I guess input from more folks would be needed).


--
Kinds regards Oliver Propst
https://twitter.com/Opropst

Re: workflow while hacking on Shepherd

[Maxime Devos]

Attila Lendvai schreef op di 01-03-2022 om 07:59 [+]:
> 1) the code that will be run as the init process in a Guix System
> 
> 2) the code that the Guix codebase is compiled against

AFAICT, these two use the same shepherd -- i.e., the shepherd from
the 'shepherd-configuration' record.

To see what shepherd the 'start' and 'stop' procedures are compiled
against, and what 'shepherd' is actually used at boot, see (gnu
services shepherd) (they are the same!).

Greetings,
Maxime.


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workflow while hacking on Shepherd

[Attila Lendvai]

hi Guix,

following up on the thread "setting open files limit for daemon processes", and 
on Maxime's generous help, i have written up a first iteration of documentation 
at:

https://issues.guix.gnu.org/54199

i'll address the listed concerns, but until then i thought i'll propose an idea 
here that may make the workflow even slicker.

there seems to be 3 ways in which Shepherd is influencing the build results of 
Guix:

1) the code that will be run as the init process in a Guix System

2) the code that the Guix codebase is compiled against

3) the Shepherd package, on which some packages depend (i assume for stuff like 
the halt executable in its bin/ output?).

from the above list, recompiling 3) takes by far the longest time (qemu, 
inkscape, etc are down the stream).

in the current setup, it's possible to change 1) without recompiling anything 
else (see my doc patch), but changing 2) without triggering 3) does not seem to 
be possible.

it's not obvious to me what is the exact mechanism through which the Shepherd 
codebase is made available when Guix is being compiled. judging from the 
behavior, it seems to be through the shepherd package definition in 
gnu/packages/admin.scm, but i don't see where/how.

blurry proposal:

maybe we could introduce another shepherd package definition, that would be 
used in 2), but not trigger a rebuild of 3)?

i would be happy to experiment with this, but i'd appreciate some guidance 
whether this all makes sense, and if so, then where is the point in the build 
process and/or codebase that defines which Shepherd is used in 2).

--
• attila lendvai
• PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39
--
“It is impossible to begin to learn that which one thinks one already knows.”
— Epictetus (c. 55–135 AD)