Re: [h-cost] Mystery Hands
It reminds me of Van Ike paintings or Flemish artists. They often painted their models touching their stomach or holding the drawn up fronts of their dresses. I don't know much more than that. - Original Message - From: Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Mystery Hands I've been pondering this detail of a painting for quite some time: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/86215971/ Where I found it is on the cover of a book, _500 Jahre Rosenkranz_, the catalog of a 1975 exhibition in Cologne, Germany, marking the 500th anniversary of the modern rosary. Unfortunately the book is in German, which is a language I can plod through, but not skim. I've looked in the obvious (to me) places where the cover picture's source might be mentioned (title pages, last pages, etc.) with no luck. Can anyone help me identify the painting? It seems likely from the context (and from what's visible in the picture) that this is a woman, possibly the Virgin Mary or a saint. This looks to me like Biblical or exotic clothing rather than what normal people actually wore. If so, this is less likely to be a donor portrait in the corner of a painting (since they're usually painted in ordinary clothes) and more likely to be one of the main subjects. Does this look familiar to anyone? I've discussed the reasons why I'd like to identify this painting here: http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2005/06/more-mystery-hands.html (besides just plain curiosity, that is!) -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] More fantastic figures/dolls was: fashion dolls again.
Burgidges dolls are awesome. Here is another artist who is in the LA area: http://www.galleryhistoricalfigures.com/ This fellow is AMAZING Too bad the one I know you all would like to get a closer look at comes up with, although interesting, the wrong doll upon clicking. I have written the webmaster to get it fixed so keep checking back! French: Countess de la Motte 1756-1793: *http://tinyurl.com/achdn* http://www.galleryhistoricalfigures.com/figures-pages/French/dela-motte/dela-motte.html Enjoy Sg Katy Bishop wrote: This talk of fashion dolls reminds me of a wonderful array of historically dressed dolls by John Burbidge, Les Petites Dames de Mode. Not sure if they have been brought up here before, but for anyone thinking about making period dressed dolls they are well worth a look. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] another old thread.
One of my gleanings on e-bay this week was a pinking tool. This small crank 19th C. piece sounded very intriguing. Remembering our last discussion of Pinking I decided I needed this . . And I think that there are at least three more up for sale...Also up just now is a number of fluting irons! Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: morse
It looks like morse is the correct term. I contacted a vestment company and they wrote back to me: I don't know, how about cope closure? Ha ha. Gail ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's it called?
I finally was able to ask my other half and he says, Yes, it is called a 'morse'. He also had problems finding it, but finally found it a while back, but can't recall which of our books had the correct term. Roscelin -- Original message -- At 7:39 AM -0500 1/21/06, jen funk segrest wrote: http://www.newadvent.org/images/04351aax.jpg that little square thing at the top edge? What is that called? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mystery Hands
I searched for rosary and found paternoster with medieval clothing. from this, I found this image that is very similar to the one in your portrait. http://paternosters.home.igc.org/ - Original Message - From: Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] Mystery Hands I've been pondering this detail of a painting for quite some time: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/86215971/ Where I found it is on the cover of a book, _500 Jahre Rosenkranz_, the catalog of a 1975 exhibition in Cologne, Germany, marking the 500th anniversary of the modern rosary. Unfortunately the book is in German, which is a language I can plod through, but not skim. I've looked in the obvious (to me) places where the cover picture's source might be mentioned (title pages, last pages, etc.) with no luck. Can anyone help me identify the painting? It seems likely from the context (and from what's visible in the picture) that this is a woman, possibly the Virgin Mary or a saint. This looks to me like Biblical or exotic clothing rather than what normal people actually wore. If so, this is less likely to be a donor portrait in the corner of a painting (since they're usually painted in ordinary clothes) and more likely to be one of the main subjects. Does this look familiar to anyone? I've discussed the reasons why I'd like to identify this painting here: http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2005/06/more-mystery-hands.html (besides just plain curiosity, that is!) -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mystery Hands
At 11:13 PM -0500 1/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know a lot about the subject, but it strikes me as odd that one group of orange beads is 9, while one is 8. Aren't rosaries in groups of 10? Or shouldn't they at least be all the same number? In a painting, not necessarily -- but I see what you mean. Ten is certainly the overwhelmingly common number of beads in a group, with five as the runner-up. But paintings show bead numbers all over the map -- 8, 3, 7, 9, et cetera. Similarly, the total number of beads in a painting may be 39, 19, 16, or some other number that (1) fits into the space on the painting, and (2) allows the beads to be big enough that you can see what they are. As for actual beads, the best evidence is in written documents, which do generally talk about groups of ten. Surviving beads are relatively few and have often been re-strung somewhere along the way, but something like the Langdale gold rosary or Mary Queen of Scots' rosaries indicate that ten-bead groups are indeed the norm. * * * * * * * * BTW, I haven't plugged my website Paternoster-Row or my Paternosters blog in awhile, and I was going to mention them again anyway, since I've just started a blog-post series on Wearing your medieval rosary. * * * * * * * * Some different numbers of beads for your entertainment: The man in the woodcut about halfway down this page has twelve beads: http://paternoster-row.org This page shows St. Joseph's rosary from Rogier Van der Weyden's The Magdalen Reading, which has 16 beads: http://paternosters.home.igc.org/02-linear/02-linear.html There's another indefinite-numbered rosary being worn by St. Hedwig on this page: http://paternosters.home.igc.org/99-gallery/02-hedwig/02-hedwig.html The classic, of course, is the beads of Catherine, Duchess of Cleves, which appear as the border of a manuscript page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/89815411/ Here's one that does seem to be consistently in groups of 10 (as far as we can see): http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/20904863/ Here's a particularly good example, I think, of beads big enough that you can see what they are overriding realism: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/10134724/ -- OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] More fantastic figures/dolls
For the 18thC, there a mold for the Beautiful Nyphenberg doll for which I got the greenware before Christmas. She is cleaned for the first firing. I have a neighbor who has a small kiln for the purpose. I have all the paints and stuff to fly with after this initial firing. It is very hard to wait!! In the meantime, back to my Little Women project. A friend from church just gifted me today with a Huge box of vintage and antique scraps...(Something to play with while THE GAME is on this afternoon) Kathleen (from the'Burg) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] More fantastic figures/dolls About 10 or 15 yeas ago, my mother was into doll-making and I was fascinated by the molds out there. There are antique styles to make the parian dolls, mostly late 19th century and forward from there. I was hoping she would find a mold for a mid-century doll that American Civil War reenactors might like. That would be for making repros of dolls that actually existed at a particular time. There are also doll molds suitable for making a fashion doll, not necessarily period techniques, but all kinds of facial features and body shapes. The base clay can be any skin tone, and then the features painted to any preference. Doll artists have their own ways of doing things, and my opinion of what to do for a historically correct look was different than what my mom wanted to do. One mold, Coco, had a head and breastplate with fairly flat mounds, perfect for 18th century. Her legs had shoes molded in, and I wanted the heels carved into a better shape. mom thought they should stay as is, since that was the way the mold was made, but I convinced her to carve them and they look fine. Another doll mold , Isadora, had a torso with a corset molded in. It ended under the bustline, which was a very natural shape - I could only dress her in that Edwardian style with the puffy front to conceal the shape. There are a lot more molds out there now than there were 15 years ago. You can buy the soft, unfired greenware or already cleaned and fired. You may have a local doll club or doll lady who has a kiln and will offer advice or classes. My mother would paint on the fired piece and fire it again, multiple times as necessary. (She has her own kiln). Anyway, if anyone wants a custom-made doll to dress in historic styles, getting the doll may be easier than you think! Just watch out for the little foibles in the molds, and remember that doll artists' idea of perfect for historic is different. :-) Oh, and the Coco mold with the shoes - I also made her to dress in Regency style, and made cloth legs instead of using the ceramic so she could have flat shoes. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's it called?
- Original Message - From: Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's called a morse, although I've more commonly seen that word applied to metal brooch-like fastenings. Take a look at: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10577c.htm I wonder what exactly they based this entry on--if it's accurate, they're describing a much earlier use of hooks and eyes than any I've found yet (other than the Roman or the armor-related ones, which were a different type of thing). Interesting! -E House, probably too lazy to follow up on it =} ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Aaaak! Embroidery issues
I have been searching around, (and thank you for the links Sue) and found this site: http://www.independenceneedlepoint.com/index.htm Has anyone here dealt with them before? Sheridan -- From: Sue Clemenger Well, my first suggestion was going to be Threadexpress (www.threadexpress.com), since they certainly carry what you're looking for, but for some reason, the DMC Medicis wool (at least through them) is only available in the US. So if you needed to go through them, you'd have to get one of us from south of our shared border to order it, and then mail it to you. My next thought was HedgehogHandworks, but they don't sell DMC Medicis. My third idea was these guys: http://www.lacemakerusa.com/ They sell DMC Medicis, but that part of their website isn't fully functional. I've bought lace-making supplies and embroidery threads through them before, and found them very helpful, so maybe you could contact them directly, and ask what colors they have? There's an email address and a 1-800 number on the home page of their website Hope this helps! --Sue in Montana - Original Message - From: Shane Sheridan I am *finally* finishing my version of an early period Irish short coat for my Husband, and I find I am nearly out of one particular colour of DMC Medicis wool. I go to check the website of the shop I usually buy from (I cannot get any locally) only to find that since I last ordered from them they no longer carry it. Grrr! (This is the second time this has happened to me with this particular line of wool, apparently I'm one of the very few people that actually uses it.) What I am looking for is a Canadian shop that carries Medicis, that will do mail-order/online. I'm in 'Northern' Ontario, but I'd consider anything within reasonable shipping distance. US suppliers are fine as well, provided they don't charge an arm and a leg for shipping. :-) Thanks folks for any help! Sheridan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat
Hi Regina, The gold guards were sewn directly onto the skirt fabric before piecing the skirt together. The skirt has a total of 16 gores on it which I carefully measured the length on before cutting so all I would have to do was turn the edge under to hem. After that I mapped out the gold pieces and cut those out; I had to paint all of the red swirls on them which was crazy time consuming so in ordre to paint only what was going to be used I really had to measure carefully. After piecing all the gold onto the velvet and making sure all the guards lined up I then sewed the 16 gores together and roll pleasted it to the waistband. The reasoning I had behind sewing the guards on before sewing the gores together was I wanted to skirt to fall in those tubular shapes seen in many of Cranach's paintings. I figured if there was a seam at each gore it would encourage the fabric to fold in a little bit and fall the way I wanted it to. I think it worked out pretty well. :) Elizabeta - Original Message - From: Wanda Pease [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat Elizabeta, How did you do the horizontal stripes on the skirt? Did you sew them straight onto the skirt fabric and then adjust the skirt from the waistband, or apply them after you had the skirt hemmed? Regina ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat
Can you send a link so I can see the costume? Sounds like what I'm doing and it might help me. - Original Message - From: Crimson Vision [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat Hi Regina, The gold guards were sewn directly onto the skirt fabric before piecing the skirt together. The skirt has a total of 16 gores on it which I carefully measured the length on before cutting so all I would have to do was turn the edge under to hem. After that I mapped out the gold pieces and cut those out; I had to paint all of the red swirls on them which was crazy time consuming so in ordre to paint only what was going to be used I really had to measure carefully. After piecing all the gold onto the velvet and making sure all the guards lined up I then sewed the 16 gores together and roll pleasted it to the waistband. The reasoning I had behind sewing the guards on before sewing the gores together was I wanted to skirt to fall in those tubular shapes seen in many of Cranach's paintings. I figured if there was a seam at each gore it would encourage the fabric to fold in a little bit and fall the way I wanted it to. I think it worked out pretty well. :) Elizabeta - Original Message - From: Wanda Pease [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat Elizabeta, How did you do the horizontal stripes on the skirt? Did you sew them straight onto the skirt fabric and then adjust the skirt from the waistband, or apply them after you had the skirt hemmed? Regina ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat
Hi Becky; Here is a link to my gown: http://tinyurl.com/dmpcb Elizabeta - Original Message - From: Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat Can you send a link so I can see the costume? Sounds like what I'm doing and it might help me. - Original Message - From: Crimson Vision [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat Hi Regina, The gold guards were sewn directly onto the skirt fabric before piecing the skirt together. The skirt has a total of 16 gores on it which I carefully measured the length on before cutting so all I would have to do was turn the edge under to hem. After that I mapped out the gold pieces and cut those out; I had to paint all of the red swirls on them which was crazy time consuming so in ordre to paint only what was going to be used I really had to measure carefully. After piecing all the gold onto the velvet and making sure all the guards lined up I then sewed the 16 gores together and roll pleasted it to the waistband. The reasoning I had behind sewing the guards on before sewing the gores together was I wanted to skirt to fall in those tubular shapes seen in many of Cranach's paintings. I figured if there was a seam at each gore it would encourage the fabric to fold in a little bit and fall the way I wanted it to. I think it worked out pretty well. :) Elizabeta - Original Message - From: Wanda Pease [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: [h-cost] Elizabeta's Garb was: attaching feathers to a hat Elizabeta, How did you do the horizontal stripes on the skirt? Did you sew them straight onto the skirt fabric and then adjust the skirt from the waistband, or apply them after you had the skirt hemmed? Regina ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
