RE: [h-cost] Costume for Elizabeth
On my Tribe list, there is someone selling a Ren costume for an 8 yr old. Interested? If so, I'll send her your e-mail. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Becky Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:52 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses Elizabeth likes the Unknown child7 picture. That is the basic design I wanted to use. I'll keep that one to use for reference. Thanks. - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:31 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor roses What kind of embroidery? Blackwork? If your daughter is trying to be Elizabeth I as a Princess then you are looking at early Tudor styles for women. Some children in portraits of the 1500s. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild1.jpg 1590 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild1.jpg 1575-80 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/ArabellaStewart.jpg 1577 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/WilliamBrooke.jpg 1567 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild7.jpg 1545 Florence http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Bia.jpg 1542 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild6.jpg 1541 French/German? http://www.tudor-portraits.com/TBJacquelineBourgogne.jpg 1530 As for roses, this is a partlet and sleeves not a shift but good for inspiration http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg De -Original Message- Hi all, I'd like to embroider some Tudor roses on a shift and I cannot draw, really cannot draw. So I would like to know if there is somewhere on-line I can find black and white line drawings of Tudor roses, preferably the five petal kind. Books with this kind of line drawing would also be great. Other Tudor flowers suitable for embroidery would also be of interest for later but I would like to get started on the roses soon. Thanks, Cassandra ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers
Made my day, beautifully executet was this with the guillotine? Just kittin Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:43 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:34:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Those Frenchthey may not be accurate, but they are beautifully executed! HeyI made a French Revolution joke :-P ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] colonial
Oooo wedding dress!:) What color? De -Original Message- Thanks so much for sharing! I am trying to design my wedding gown which will roughly be from this period and I am trying to find out all I can about construction techniques. This new colonial dress will be a big help. Diana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
Holy Crapola, that dress is beautiful, but really badly mounted. So I wouldn't trust all of their information, especially about the gown meeting edge to edge at the centrefront. I wish they had taken the time to mount the dress proprely, then you would be able to see all it's glory in the photos...they are great photos, I'm bummed ;-( If you are interested in more information about dresses from this time period, check out Janet Arnold's book on this period, also Louisbourg National Historic Site, published booklets on clothing from this time period a few years back, they are complete with patterns and tailoring details. Their website is http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/ , you may be able to contact them for a copy. For those who are interested in this era, come join me and a few hundred others at Louisbourg's Grande Encampment this year! Kelly/estela - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] colonial Ooo...look what I found. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_238.htm De I LOVE this website! I know that they show the details to help sell the clothing but it is AWESOME for us historical costumers that may not ever get to study garments like these in person. Thanks so much for sharing! I am trying to design my wedding gown which will roughly be from this period and I am trying to find out all I can about construction techniques. This new colonial dress will be a big help. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
http://www.flowerpictures.net/perennials/columbine.htm I think the Dutch call it Agley or Akelei. A few other names, origins unknown: Culverwort, Jovisblume, Alderblume, Glockenblume. De -Original Message- Oh that sounds absolutely lovely. I tried to look up Colombines in my dictionary, but could not find it. Which flowers are they? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Effigy Corset
I wore mine at Pennsic and was able to bend in every direction (I used only a single steel bone in the front for the large whalebone piece), as if I wasn't wearing it. Admittedly, I did break some reeds at the waist doing this, but that didn't effect the comfort level or support. In fact, the broken reeds affected things so minimally that I never did replace them before that corset got retired. It was THE most comfortable thing I ever wore and was no trouble at all for potty breaks (provided it isn't too long in front), or at least no trouble than all those skirts etc... can possibly be. Cheers, Danielle At 05:12 PM 2/12/2006, you wrote: To those who have made this corset. How is it for bending over and/or twisting? Can you bend over from the waist or do you do the Stewardess kneel down, back straight? How about potty breaks? Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 141
Hi Kimiko, I walk and dance quite easily in 14th century dresses that are about 10-15cm longer than me at the front. The only time it becomes inconvenient is going up stairs or up a slope, or when you are carrying a lot of stuff as then it becomes difficult to get into the right way of walking. It's definitely an upper class thing, but the skirt puddling around the feet when you're standing still is quite an attractive effect. With regard to the shorter gowns, in the first link there, the woman's gown is clearly looped up over something (it's not her girdle, that is just above it). In the second the gown is definitely shorter, but there is a note with it saying that the Venetian ambassador noted in the 1550's that it was common for English women to have the gown shorter than the kirtle. I can't say this is something I've ever noticed, but I haven't paid a lot of attention to later Tudor (it's certainly nothing I've picked up in early Tudor dress), and the portraits from then do tend to mostly show the upper half. Claire - Original Message - From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:29 PM Subject: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking Hi all, Forgive me if you've seen this question on another list before, but I didn't get any response, so I was hoping those learned folk here would be able to provide some insight. I've been looking at the online effigies database (http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies), and was struck by the views of the women's garments from the 1520s to mid 1530s. Most images of that time frame don't go below the waist, so it's very nice to be able to view the feet, and bottoms of the kirtles and gowns. But when I see that the kirtles are flowing over the feet, I have to wonder. How do the ladies in the earlier Tudor (Henry VIII) era walk when their kirtles seem to be longer than they are tall? Examples are: Oakley woman (unknown) c1520 http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/browse/view.asp?id=81 Edith Pexall née Brocas (c1535) http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/browse/view.asp?id=95 Did they always have to lift all their skirts up to walk? Were they meant to be worn over farthingales, but just didn't wear the farthingales for the effigies? (I'm not even positive if farthingales were worn in England during this time frame.) I see dress hooks holding up the front of the gown, but what about the overflowing kirtles? Is it something else entirely? I also find it interesting that the gown hems are much shorter than kirtle hems. From the looks of things, gown hems appear to end above the ankles or so. I would love any and all comments, thoughts, or even speculation on this, please. Thank you, Kimiko Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Fresno, CA, USA Lady of the Wardrobe for Isle of Mann Guild Portraying at California's Central Valley Renaissance Faires Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret Russell) ___ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress
How is the stomacher attached? It has tabs, but in the picture you linked to I don't see how it attached. The description said it was removable like a jewel. It covered the corset lacings. How was it held in place? - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:35 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress Okay perhaps I used the wrong label at least the online dictionarys seem to say so. It is usually defined as an ornamental, detachable front of a woman's bodice similar to a stomacher? This is a stomacher to give a rough idea. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_230.htm De -Original Message- What's a plastron? I looked up and the range was all over the place. I found one necklace of the Romanovs that was gorgeous but I don't know if that is what the term applies to or not. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Costume for Elizabeth
Yes, I'd like to see it. I'd buy it if it is the correct one for her. The decision is up to her, but I know I can convience her if the price is right for me. Please forward my email to the person. I'd appreciate it. - Original Message - From: Sharon at Collierfam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:08 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume for Elizabeth On my Tribe list, there is someone selling a Ren costume for an 8 yr old. Interested? If so, I'll send her your e-mail. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Becky Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:52 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses Elizabeth likes the Unknown child7 picture. That is the basic design I wanted to use. I'll keep that one to use for reference. Thanks. - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:31 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor roses What kind of embroidery? Blackwork? If your daughter is trying to be Elizabeth I as a Princess then you are looking at early Tudor styles for women. Some children in portraits of the 1500s. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild1.jpg 1590 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild1.jpg 1575-80 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/ArabellaStewart.jpg 1577 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/WilliamBrooke.jpg 1567 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild7.jpg 1545 Florence http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Bia.jpg 1542 http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownChild6.jpg 1541 French/German? http://www.tudor-portraits.com/TBJacquelineBourgogne.jpg 1530 As for roses, this is a partlet and sleeves not a shift but good for inspiration http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg De -Original Message- Hi all, I'd like to embroider some Tudor roses on a shift and I cannot draw, really cannot draw. So I would like to know if there is somewhere on-line I can find black and white line drawings of Tudor roses, preferably the five petal kind. Books with this kind of line drawing would also be great. Other Tudor flowers suitable for embroidery would also be of interest for later but I would like to get started on the roses soon. Thanks, Cassandra ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT: Fabric for sale
Greetings, I have a bunch of fabric for sale and I know not everyone on this list is on the Yahoogroups Swap Sell or Costume Trader lists so I had my husband put them up on the web for me, more will be going up soon, including a couple of bonnets - one I made and the other a new Hatcrafters one that never got worn. If you're at all interested in any of it, please contact me at dannw at mn.rr.com Sorry for this rather commercial message... http://www.cyberiosity.com/FabricSale/Default.html Cheers, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Thanks Deredere, Now i know, we call it Akkeleje in danish. Thanks Bjarne - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:48 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses http://www.flowerpictures.net/perennials/columbine.htm I think the Dutch call it Agley or Akelei. A few other names, origins unknown: Culverwort, Jovisblume, Alderblume, Glockenblume. De -Original Message- Oh that sounds absolutely lovely. I tried to look up Colombines in my dictionary, but could not find it. Which flowers are they? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress
Dear Becky. Stomachers could be attached on top of the stays with the small tabs in the sides, or it could be directly pinned into the bodice sides of the dress. Pins was used to do this. Most ladies i know hate to pin with dressing pins, afraid it will heart somebody or themselves. However i dont think bad things could happend. This is what they did back then. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress How is the stomacher attached? It has tabs, but in the picture you linked to I don't see how it attached. The description said it was removable like a jewel. It covered the corset lacings. How was it held in place? - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:35 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress Okay perhaps I used the wrong label at least the online dictionarys seem to say so. It is usually defined as an ornamental, detachable front of a woman's bodice similar to a stomacher? This is a stomacher to give a rough idea. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_230.htm De -Original Message- What's a plastron? I looked up and the range was all over the place. I found one necklace of the Romanovs that was gorgeous but I don't know if that is what the term applies to or not. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers
Hmm so you think they had a corset with tabs to which the bumroll was attached and over it the dress? So the dress itself should be of two parts - the skirt and the bodice. One thing that remains a mystery to me is this perfect fit of the bodices - I'd say they were at least stiffened with something. [EMAIL PROTECTED] says they were boned. This thing with attaching the bumroll to the tabs of the corset is quite interesting - I've never heard about it before. You know it from the Evolution of Fashion? It's a real pity I haven't got that book. But it's a good tip for buying, thanks:-)) Just one thing - how far on the tabs would the bumroll be, I mean, just at the waist or an inch or two lower? Just to know how to make the waistline of that bumroll. Zuzana Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think they wore a bodice under the dress wich had a peplum or large tabs. And i would guess there was lacing holes on top of the tabs, to hold up a small bumroll. Corsets must have ben worn to give this push up breasts, and smooth bodice. How they looked like, i really would have loved to see. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
Oh, we wants it, preciouss..yes, we do. --Sue, apparently channeling Gollum this morning - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historic Costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:29 PM Subject: [h-cost] colonial Ooo...look what I found. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_238.htm De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting Historians?
Recently there was a discussion about the history of knitting. I didn't really pay to much attention to it since I do not knit. But a friend of mine is a knitter and wants to talk to anyone who does know the history of knitting. If you can help, would you please contact me privately so I can get my friend in contact with you. Roscelin Contact Mistress Nan Compton, who started the An Tir Spinners and Knitters Guild. She will be able to give your friend tons of help, and can be reach at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Arlys ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
At 06:14 PM 2/14/2006, you wrote: Is there a way to make a smock that can create the illusion of being different parts and still be accuate? Well the intent of the sleeves is to not look different to the partlet, if they are indeed seperate items;) I personally feel she is wearing a garment similar to the smock in the VA that is heavily embroidered and would surely not have been worn next to the skin: http://costume.dm.net/va/smocks.html There is a typo, the chemise is all linen, but of two grades. It is not a silk upper half. In regards to seperate items, I am not discounting that they exist. Does anyone remember what book has a picture of some blackworked sleeves in it? I know there is also a picture of uncut blackworked sleeves somewhere else as well. They show that there were indeed seperate items, even aside from what is in written inventories (which can be hard to understand given the change of language over time.) michaela http://glittersweet.com I think that the book you are referring to is QEWU. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Thanks, De! I didn't know how to describe them for Bjarne. I like columbines, and specifically chose them for my SCA heraldry because the plant is found in both my part of the U.S. and in Europe. They come in all kinds of riotous color combinations, too. --Sue, starting to long for Spring so she can work in her garden - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:48 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses http://www.flowerpictures.net/perennials/columbine.htm I think the Dutch call it Agley or Akelei. A few other names, origins unknown: Culverwort, Jovisblume, Alderblume, Glockenblume. De -Original Message- Oh that sounds absolutely lovely. I tried to look up Colombines in my dictionary, but could not find it. Which flowers are they? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress
At 02:48 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: Thats interresting. Its funny they want to keep the edwardian shape even for renaissance. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress At 09:42 AM 2/14/2006, you wrote: Found this, and thoaght some of you might not have seen it yeat. http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=dresssubmit.x=3submit.y=10coll_start=81 Bjarne Thank you Bjarne, I got to playing around with the search engine, and found this interesting gown, from the House of Worth. http://tinyurl.com/92mz4 I found it amusing that they would do a renaissance style gown for the well to do. I could almost see this gown on a friend of faire person, someone who likes to dress up with something that looks kinda right, but isn't. And in purple velvet, it's rather fetching. Kimiko I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress (costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
Holy Crapola, that dress is beautiful, but really badly mounted. So I wouldn't trust all of their information, especially about the gown meeting edge to edge at the centrefront. I wish they had taken the time to mount the dress proprely, then you would be able to see all it's glory in the photos...they are great photos, I'm bummed ;-( If you are interested in more information about dresses from this time period, check out Janet Arnold's book on this period, also Louisbourg National Historic Site, published booklets on clothing from this time period a few years back, they are complete with patterns and tailoring details. Their website is http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/ , you may be able to contact them for a copy. For those who are interested in this era, come join me and a few hundred others at Louisbourg's Grande Encampment this year! Kelly/estela - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] colonial Ooo...look what I found. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_238.htm De I LOVE this website! I know that they show the details to help sell the clothing but it is AWESOME for us historical costumers that may not ever get to study garments like these in person. Thanks so much for sharing! I am trying to design my wedding gown which will roughly be from this period and I am trying to find out all I can about construction techniques. This new colonial dress will be a big help. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] colonial
Oooo wedding dress!:) What color? De Well, that has been the hardest part. I want to do a white-ish color white, cream, chanpagne, etc.) but my accent color is a deep purple-blue. I originally intended to make it white with the blue accents but the contrast is so big! I am still trying to figure out how to do it. I am very inspired by this painting: http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?32697+0+0 But I also like the split-skirt style like the garment just posted. Sighso many ideas and I only get to choose one! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Pattern suggestions, was Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses
At 04:57 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: Yes. I've read just about every document on how to make these period costumes. I searched online for images and dairies for help. I found the diaries very helpful. I borrowed a copy of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked from a library. It had lots of details but not what I wanted... suggested patterns. Quite a heavy book! I've seen the eyelet and ribbon attachments on several examples. I saved where they were and images to a disk so I have a collection of parts to use for my costume. I have patterns to use for parts and I guess it'll be a pick-and-choose to get it all like I want. Have you checked out Margo Anderson's Historic Patterns? She has complete packages with sizes from 2 to 30. I have the original set of Ladies' Underpinnings, Ladies' Gown, and Accessories. Her web site is http://www.margospatterns.com/mainframe.htm . Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
Holy Crapola, that dress is beautiful, but really badly mounted. So I wouldn't trust all of their information, especially about the gown meeting edge to edge at the centrefront. I wish they had taken the time to mount the dress proprely, then you would be able to see all it's glory in the photos...they are great photos, I'm bummed ;-( Sorry, I hit send accidently! If you think that one is mounted badly, check this one out: http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_431.htm I LOVE this jacket, but it looks so awful there! If you are interested in more information about dresses from this time period, check out Janet Arnold's book on this period, I have the book but I don't remember many construction pictures in it. And I work much better from pictures than somebody's description. I will take a look at it again now that I know more about the period. also Louisbourg National Historic Site, published booklets on clothing from this time period a few years back, they are complete with patterns and tailoring details. Their website is http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/ , you may be able to contact them for a copy. Thanks, I will check it out. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pattern suggestions, was Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses
I've seen that before and wanted it. I decided to buy the set. My husband forgot Valentine's Day so this is my gift to myself. Paypal is great sometimes. Paid and on it's way to my house. I hope the package includes all the sizes. Anyone have this? Any suggestions? - Original Message - From: Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:55 AM Subject: Pattern suggestions, was Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses At 04:57 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: Yes. I've read just about every document on how to make these period costumes. I searched online for images and dairies for help. I found the diaries very helpful. I borrowed a copy of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked from a library. It had lots of details but not what I wanted... suggested patterns. Quite a heavy book! I've seen the eyelet and ribbon attachments on several examples. I saved where they were and images to a disk so I have a collection of parts to use for my costume. I have patterns to use for parts and I guess it'll be a pick-and-choose to get it all like I want. Have you checked out Margo Anderson's Historic Patterns? She has complete packages with sizes from 2 to 30. I have the original set of Ladies' Underpinnings, Ladies' Gown, and Accessories. Her web site is http://www.margospatterns.com/mainframe.htm . Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Yep, interlibrary loan found it for me. I couldn't afford to buy it myself. It's a nice book but not what I expected. I read fantastic stories of the designs and details that no other book had. A great source for Tudor, but not helpful about MAKING the costume I want. - Original Message - From: Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses At 06:14 PM 2/14/2006, you wrote: Is there a way to make a smock that can create the illusion of being different parts and still be accuate? Well the intent of the sleeves is to not look different to the partlet, if they are indeed seperate items;) I personally feel she is wearing a garment similar to the smock in the VA that is heavily embroidered and would surely not have been worn next to the skin: http://costume.dm.net/va/smocks.html There is a typo, the chemise is all linen, but of two grades. It is not a silk upper half. In regards to seperate items, I am not discounting that they exist. Does anyone remember what book has a picture of some blackworked sleeves in it? I know there is also a picture of uncut blackworked sleeves somewhere else as well. They show that there were indeed seperate items, even aside from what is in written inventories (which can be hard to understand given the change of language over time.) michaela http://glittersweet.com I think that the book you are referring to is QEWU. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thanks Deredere, Now i know, we call it Akkeleje in danish. Cool. The genus name is Aquilegia. It's in the buttercup family. I've toyed with trying to transform one of the english columbines Elizabethan patterns into the American columbine. Ours is not as fat and the spurs are *much* longer. http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Wildflower/Images/columbine.jpg Susan, the (spring) wildflower junkie - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 141
rotflmao - almost sprayed my computer with my morning coffee! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 19:43:47 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:34:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Those Frenchthey may not be accurate, but they are beautifully executed! HeyI made a French Revolution joke :-P - What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking
At 04:36 PM 2/14/2006, you wrote: Not sure why the 'gown shorter than the kirtle' idea? Can you explain? As for the length of dresses seeming long, we in the modern era walk differently than ladies of the historical era would have. If, when you are walking, you let your toes drop to a relax point when stepping forward, it is difficult to step on your hem, as you push it away with the toe of your foot. There is also a little half kick/ swirl movement to move your back hem (which is sometimes trained) out of the way when you turn around. The only time I ever lift my skirt hem is when I'm climbing stairs. Kelly/estela Hi Kelly/estela Thank you for your reply, and clarifications on how to walk in a long gown. I was simply noting what I saw, and what Dr Jane Malcolm-Davies has written on that page, as follows on the last image: Edith Pexall née Brocas (c1535) - Hem The top layer (the gown) is shorter than the under layer (the kirtle). This was described as characteristic of Englishwomen's dress by the Venetian ambassador in 1554 (quoted in Carter, A [1984] Mary Tudors Wardrobe in Costume, 18, 20). This image is direct, and shows what I mean. http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/assets/main/95_137_main.jpg I had always presumed that the outer gown was longer or the same length than the kirtle worn underneath, yet that seems to not be the case in this effigy, and apparently, in English gowns of the time. The kirtles shown in the effigy are very long, over the feet long, as in they would be a few inches lower than the ground long when you are standing. I don't follow how the skirts would be constantly pooling around your feet when you are standing and walking, and not trip a lot. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: women costumes from The three musketeers
This thing with attaching the bumroll to the tabs of the corset is quite interesting - I've never heard about it before. Zuzana I dont think the bumme needs to be attached. It's supported with those things called hips. Since the narrower part that ties goes under the corset CF it's wont twist on the body. Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Corsets must have ben worn to give this push up breasts, and smooth bodice. How they looked like, i really would have loved to see. Exactly. That straight-laced smooth body is so much easier to fit with a smooth bodice than lumpy loose modern women. No, the bodice is not padded, the interior structure is interfacing. Basic Butterick Simplicity sewing skills cannot reproduce the effect. Get one of the Couture how-to books like Palmer-Pletch or Shaeffer. Once you learn how modern couture construction technically works, you will understand Janet Arnold, Blanche Payne, Norah Waugh and others' notes and pictures better. I'm hoping to get my copy of The Tudor Tailor soon. When I started costuming there just werent any books around on early construction and tailoring, only on cutting diagrams. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Tudor roses
Becky -- I don't know where to get child-sized patterns; you may have to draft them yourself (it's not hard, really, with little kids); but here are two sites which may help you -- http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/gowns/velvetgown/gettingstarted.htm This is a dress diary that discusses where and how to get the patterns for a Tudor gown like the one you've chosen for your daughter. http://www.reddawn.net/costume/costpat.htm And here's a site that reviews commercial costume patterns for their historicity. Hope this helps! Tea Rose === Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 07:57:44 -0500 From: Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses It had lots of details but not what I wanted... suggested patterns. I have patterns to use for parts and I guess it'll be a pick-and-choose to get it all like I want. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
was: fancy dress costumes Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress
Subject: I got to playing around with the search engine, and found this interesting gown, from the House of Worth. http://tinyurl.com/92mz4 I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress (costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny. I have several fancy dress fashion plates, too. My personal favorite is the kimono set of curraise gowns entitled Receiving in the Japanese Room (peterson's 1879). The dolmans are a marvelous combo of geisha victorian. It's so well loved it's on my wall in the dining room. At the Pitti Palace in Florence, there was a small collection on display of 19th repros of earlier styles. I loved the 1840s(?) version of 15th c Florentine. It's in the Galleria di Costume catalogs. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Tudor Roses
Found this embroidery pattern while looking for something else. They call it English Rose but it looks like the right thing to me. Hope it helps. http://www.dragonbear.com/cenrose.html Annette M - Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, more on new and used cars. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
Yowza thats lovely! Hmmm, it seems that the measurements that they give are exactly my measurements in a corset Now for that winning lottery ticket. :0) Sheridan From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/02/14 Tue PM 11:29:31 EST To: Historic Costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] colonial Ooo...look what I found. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_238.htm De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
At 08:04 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: [anip] If you are interested in more information about dresses from this time period, check out Janet Arnold's book on this period, I have the book but I don't remember many construction pictures in it. And I work much better from pictures than somebody's description. I will take a look at it again now that I know more about the period. also Louisbourg National Historic Site, published booklets on clothing from this time period a few years back, they are complete with patterns and tailoring details. Their website is http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/ , you may be able to contact them for a copy. Thanks, I will check it out. Diana Check out The Cut of Women's Clothing. I can't lay my hands on my copy at the moment :-(, but there are many cutting diagrams in the back. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re: [h-cost]italian childs renaissance dress
I have in my collection just such a gown of the '70s that got reshaped and trotted out as QE1! It is indeed a hoot. My very favorite of these can be seen at The Museum of the City of NY: A purple velvet number of the late '70/ early '80s and worn by Mrs. Astor. She went to the party as a Light Bulb!! Her Diamond headdress provided the twinkling lights. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:47 AM Subject: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re: [h-cost]italian childs renaissance dress At 02:48 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: Thats interresting. Its funny they want to keep the edwardian shape even for renaissance. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:36 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress At 09:42 AM 2/14/2006, you wrote: Found this, and thoaght some of you might not have seen it yeat. http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=dresssubmit. x=3submit.y=10coll_start=81 Bjarne Thank you Bjarne, I got to playing around with the search engine, and found this interesting gown, from the House of Worth. http://tinyurl.com/92mz4 I found it amusing that they would do a renaissance style gown for the well to do. I could almost see this gown on a friend of faire person, someone who likes to dress up with something that looks kinda right, but isn't. And in purple velvet, it's rather fetching. Kimiko I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress (costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Pattern suggestions, was Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses
Each pattern has all the sizes. And they come with an instruction book that you can put into a three-ring binder. They are well worth the cost. Joan At 08:20 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: I've seen that before and wanted it. I decided to buy the set. My husband forgot Valentine's Day so this is my gift to myself. Paypal is great sometimes. Paid and on it's way to my house. I hope the package includes all the sizes. Anyone have this? Any suggestions? - Original Message - From: Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:55 AM Subject: Pattern suggestions, was Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses At 04:57 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: Yes. I've read just about every document on how to make these period costumes. I searched online for images and dairies for help. I found the diaries very helpful. I borrowed a copy of Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked from a library. It had lots of details but not what I wanted... suggested patterns. Quite a heavy book! I've seen the eyelet and ribbon attachments on several examples. I saved where they were and images to a disk so I have a collection of parts to use for my costume. I have patterns to use for parts and I guess it'll be a pick-and-choose to get it all like I want. Have you checked out Margo Anderson's Historic Patterns? She has complete packages with sizes from 2 to 30. I have the original set of Ladies' Underpinnings, Ladies' Gown, and Accessories. Her web site is http://www.margospatterns.com/mainframe.htm . Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re: [h-cost]italian childs renaissance dress
At 18:14 15/02/2006, you wrote: I have in my collection just such a gown of the '70s that got reshaped and trotted out as QE1! It is indeed a hoot. My very favorite of these can be seen at The Museum of the City of NY: A purple velvet number of the late '70/ early '80s and worn by Mrs. Astor. She went to the party as a Light Bulb!! Her Diamond headdress provided the twinkling lights. I have a recent purchase of a fashion plate from the 1890's of a Bookworm - it was in German, so it took me a while to fathom out! Suzi Found this, and thoaght some of you might not have seen it yeat. http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=dresssubmit. x=3submit.y=10coll_start=81 I got to playing around with the search engine, and found this interesting gown, from the House of Worth. http://tinyurl.com/92mz4 I found it amusing that they would do a renaissance style gown for the well to do. I could almost see this gown on a friend of faire person, someone who likes to dress up with something that looks kinda right, but isn't. And in purple velvet, it's rather fetching. Kimiko I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress (costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: OT: work at home 'rituals'
Hi, Katherine, This is a very familiar and old experience for me, as I've been working at home since 1980 when my children were pre-school (and are now in their mid to late 20s and forging successful careers of their own.) I've juggled a career as a writer, journalist, artist and more recently (since 2000) added to that vendor of historical sewing patterns. I learned very quickly that it is important to treat your cocooning career just as you would a commuter career, even if that commute was only 10 minutes. So, I established a work routine. I have to be dressed and ready for work by 9:00 a.m., latest 10:00 a.m. I have to work until noon. I break at noon and take a nice leisurely lunch, maybe an hour, maybe an hour and a half. I nosh, perhaps take care of some domestic items (cleaning, cooking, baking, gardening, laundry and when the children were little quality time with them, and since being here walking into the village to fetch mail.) I then work for another two hours, take a break, about half an hour, and then knock off around 4:00 or 5:00 p.m. Malleable rule is I'm not allowed to work after hours or weekends. I say the rule is malleable, because I am flexible if there's an important order, or a deadline that's getting crunchy. By keeping these rules I've managed to look at what I do as a 'job', that requires discipline, dedication and results. I do not turn on the TV except at lunch to catch the news, and I only allow about 15 to 20 minutes of that. In the good weather I take my lunches out of doors so I can recharge by watching the birds and communing with my garden. These things won't work for everyone. But they work for me. Regards, Lorina Five Rivers Chapmanry purveyors of historical sewing patterns, quality hand-crafted cooperage, re-enactor and embroidery supplies, and more. 519-799-5577 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - www.5rivers.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] article on lace making
Did anyone else see yesterday's Wall Street Journal? On the front page was an article on Indian women making hand-made lace and the difficulties of keeping the art going, finding places to sell it, etc. I found it fascinating, and thought others here would as well. I don't know if you can access the article on-line without a subscription, but just about every local library I've ever had access to got the WSJ. I think it would be worth looking up. *** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence Bristol Renaissance Faire My arms are too short to box with God. --Johnny Cash *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italian childs renaissance dress
Your day sounds much like mine. The most difficult problem for me has been getting customers to keep to business hours when it comes to the telephone! No, I am not happy to take your call between the hours of 6PM and Am!! Call me when the shop is open. ( And don't show up on a Sunday afternoon and expect that the shop is..or can be open!!) We solved that one by taking off for the day sometime after 9AM and get home maybe after dark. I will take appointments between 9Am and noon on Saturday...if I have to. Funny thing, came the day when I realized that none of the costume shops or suppliers worked aft Noon on Saturday and so I liberated myself. The other problem work related is how easy (or hard not to) let the shop inventory travel into the living quarters.. kathleen - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:27 PM Subject: Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italian childs renaissance dress At 18:14 15/02/2006, you wrote: I have in my collection just such a gown of the '70s that got reshaped and trotted out as QE1! It is indeed a hoot. My very favorite of these can be seen at The Museum of the City of NY: A purple velvet number of the late '70/ early '80s and worn by Mrs. Astor. She went to the party as a Light Bulb!! Her Diamond headdress provided the twinkling lights. I have a recent purchase of a fashion plate from the 1890's of a Bookworm - it was in German, so it took me a while to fathom out! Suzi Found this, and thoaght some of you might not have seen it yeat. http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=dresssubmit. x=3submit.y=10coll_start=81 I got to playing around with the search engine, and found this interesting gown, from the House of Worth. http://tinyurl.com/92mz4 I found it amusing that they would do a renaissance style gown for the well to do. I could almost see this gown on a friend of faire person, someone who likes to dress up with something that looks kinda right, but isn't. And in purple velvet, it's rather fetching. Kimiko I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress (costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers
Hi, No i dont think i explained very well what i ment. I believe they wore a corset, and on top of this corset they had a fitted bodice wich had either large tabs or a shaped peplum. It would be closed center front. On top of these tabs lacing holes in the sides and at the back to attach a small bumroll. It shoould hang about an inch below the high waistline. On top of this, the underskirt or petticoat. Then the dress wich is attached bodice and skirt is hanged over the shoulders, and closed center front with a stomacher. Evolution says its the bodice with the tabs wich is the actually corset, but i dont believe they wore such short stays. I think they used the evolution shapes of the old renaissance stays. We dont know this, as no stays excist from this period. Their posture kind of tells me that they did wear corsets, also the way the breasts are lifted up. The standing collar for this dress in the book, 1625 is made of a rectangle piece of linen wich is pleated into its round shape. The yoke wich is pleated also is then attached to the standing collar and pins in the center front bustline. Because it is bended (yoke) towards the bust, it rises the standing collar very beautifully behind. Cuffs are made the same way rectangle, pleated in shape. And off cause edged with a scalloped lace like the standing band. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers Hmm so you think they had a corset with tabs to which the bumroll was attached and over it the dress? So the dress itself should be of two parts - the skirt and the bodice. One thing that remains a mystery to me is this perfect fit of the bodices - I'd say they were at least stiffened with something. [EMAIL PROTECTED] says they were boned. This thing with attaching the bumroll to the tabs of the corset is quite interesting - I've never heard about it before. You know it from the Evolution of Fashion? It's a real pity I haven't got that book. But it's a good tip for buying, thanks:-)) Just one thing - how far on the tabs would the bumroll be, I mean, just at the waist or an inch or two lower? Just to know how to make the waistline of that bumroll. Zuzana Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think they wore a bodice under the dress wich had a peplum or large tabs. And i would guess there was lacing holes on top of the tabs, to hold up a small bumroll. Corsets must have ben worn to give this push up breasts, and smooth bodice. How they looked like, i really would have loved to see. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: colonial
-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:08:12 -0800 From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] colonial To: Historical Costume Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 08:04 AM 2/15/2006, you wrote: [anip] If you are interested in more information about dresses from this time period, check out Janet Arnold's book on this period, I have the book but I don't remember many construction pictures in it. And I work much better from pictures than somebody's description. I will take a look at it again now that I know more about the period. also Louisbourg National Historic Site, published booklets on clothing from this time period a few years back, they are complete with patterns and tailoring details. Their website is http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/ , you may be able to contact them for a copy. Thanks, I will check it out. Diana Check out The Cut of Women's Clothing. I can't lay my hands on my copy at the moment :-(, but there are many cutting diagrams in the back. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also check out Fitting and Proper, this has two types of 18c gowns and diagrams for each. (a sack back-in silk and a round gown in a block printed cotton, but I may be dis--remembering the correct terms and types), These are taken from a PA area hsitorical society Chester County I believe. Correct me ladies who know. It seems to me that the basic shapes are the same for the different types, so the diagrams in Fitting and Proper pretty much equal Costume closeup = Cut of Womens clothing = Janet Arnold. I know this is over simplifing. I've gone/am going through this process to try to put together some garments. Williamsburg's Costume close up was my first source with additions from the other books...each has its strength and weaknesses... 18c Mia in Charlotte, NC, where i saw a daffodil today!! - Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
Hi, This has ben my dream to make for many many years, it is so lovely. By the way, this portrait is one of the reasons that i keep on saying that cartridge pleating was used in 18th century, even though the 18th century womens list has disagreed. They claim it never was used, but how would you pleat this skirt otherwise? Bjarne - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:55 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] colonial Oooo wedding dress!:) What color? De Well, that has been the hardest part. I want to do a white-ish color white, cream, chanpagne, etc.) but my accent color is a deep purple-blue. I originally intended to make it white with the blue accents but the contrast is so big! I am still trying to figure out how to do it. I am very inspired by this painting: http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?32697+0+0 But I also like the split-skirt style like the garment just posted. Sighso many ideas and I only get to choose one! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
This is the week for not finding things. I know I have seen a 1500s blackwork pattern of columbines. AAAHHH! Have you considered a full front view of the flower connected by lattice vines? De -Original Message- Cool. The genus name is Aquilegia. It's in the buttercup family. I've toyed with trying to transform one of the english columbines Elizabethan patterns into the American columbine. Ours is not as fat and the spurs are *much* longer. http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Wildflower/Images/columbine.jpg Susan, the (spring) wildflower junkie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Your welcome. And thank you for the Danish name. :) De small note: De is for D'Lisa. -Original Message- Thanks Deredere, Now i know, we call it Akkeleje in danish. Thanks Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] colonial
I was looking up the artist and found this lovely picture. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_019.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_018.jpg If I was interested in the period and had the figure I would love a dress like this. Madame Pompadour has some nice dresses http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_017.jpg De -Original Message- I am very inspired by this painting: http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?32697+0+0 But I also like the split-skirt style like the garment just posted. Sighso many ideas and I only get to choose one! Diana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] colonial
This shows some other portraits of similar fullness of skirt. Click on the picture for bigger picture and info in Spanish. Then click on that picture with enlargement features (note: 200% is fuzzy) http://pintura.aut.org/BU04?Autnum=11680Empnum=0Inicio=46 I'm not sure, cartridge pleating looks possible. Some techniques usually don't disappear so easily. De -Original Message- Hi, This has ben my dream to make for many many years, it is so lovely. By the way, this portrait is one of the reasons that i keep on saying that cartridge pleating was used in 18th century, even though the 18th century womens list has disagreed. They claim it never was used, but how would you pleat this skirt otherwise? Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 3 musketeers
Hi, I think some of you might have misunderstanded my explanations to this. I was not reffering to the movie picture costumes, but the cavallier style fashion for women. With the high waists. The reason why i want the bumroll to be laced to a bodice is that the dress waistline is so high over the natural waistline, that it simply couldnt be tied arround so high, without slipping down emediately. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress
Kimiko Small wrote: http://tinyurl.com/92mz4 I found it amusing that they would do a renaissance style gown for the well to do. I could almost see this gown on a friend of faire person, someone who likes to dress up with something that looks kinda right, but isn't. There was a resurgence of interest in the renaissance period around then (1877) and quite a bit of clothing and household goods got made in imitation of it. Some of it is quite nice. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
- Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] colonial This shows some other portraits of similar fullness of skirt. Click on the picture for bigger picture and info in Spanish. Then click on that picture with enlargement features (note: 200% is fuzzy) http://pintura.aut.org/BU04?Autnum=11680Empnum=0Inicio=46 I'm not sure, cartridge pleating looks possible. Some techniques usually don't disappear so easily. You also clearly sees her wooden busk trough the bodice, this i never noticed before. This must be a heavy duchesse satin, and imagine to pleat so much width into such a small waist, you really must use cartridge pleats :-) sorry i keep on Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
In a message dated 2/15/2006 3:57:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_019.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_018.jpg The color seems off in these pics. Anyway, Glen Close wears a replica of this gown [in a dark teal with pink roses and bows] in Dangerous Liaisons in the only scene where all the main characters are together, at the Salon, listening to the castrate singing Handel. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tudor roses(sleeves)
I hadn't thought of the partlet and I think the weight might effect the lay of the partlet. Connecting to the corset strap is more possibility then proof. As I can see a person putting on the sleeves before the gown. The corset is where I would think it could connect and it would be easier to put the sleeves on that way then to push the sleeve cap up and attach. There is also a possibility that the sleeve could be attached with hook and eye just on the inside near the edge of the sleeve cap. Sorry for not being specific on docs. vs. conjecture. De -Original Message- Yes. Thanks for the clarification. I think that if the sleeves aren't part of a shirt, they'd either tie onto the armscye of the partlet, or *perhaps* the gown. Corset hadn't occured to me though...what led you to think of that? --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
At 01:11 PM 2/15/2006, you wrote: - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] colonial This shows some other portraits of similar fullness of skirt. Click on the picture for bigger picture and info in Spanish. Then click on that picture with enlargement features (note: 200% is fuzzy) http://pintura.aut.org/BU04?Autnum=11680Empnum=0Inicio=46 I'm not sure, cartridge pleating looks possible. Some techniques usually don't disappear so easily. You also clearly sees her wooden busk trough the bodice, this i never noticed before. This must be a heavy duchesse satin, and imagine to pleat so much width into such a small waist, you really must use cartridge pleats :-) sorry i keep on Bjarne Actually, there is another technique, rolled pleats. And they are easy to sew into a waistband. My tailor, Stephen Bergdahl, used them for my latest Elizabethan gown (I still have not learned how to do them since I have not needed a new gown, yet). He said it was very easy. And it does give the look of the full skirts in many of the portraits. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 3 musketeers
Oh so true Bjarne! I picked this time period to dress myself for SCA because of my rediculously high waist! It's the only time in history that I have the body type for! I have the quintessential Rubenesque body, I can't imagine keeping the bumroll that high if I didn't. On most folks you would have to tie the roll to the stays, the skirts are heavier than they look! Kelly The reason why i want the bumroll to be laced to a bodice is that the dress waistline is so high over the natural waistline, that it simply couldnt be tied arround so high, without slipping down emediately. Bjarne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
The portrait is earlier 18thC, and perhaps represents an opulent fantasy style. If anyone can get a look at extant upper class wear of the time, we would know if there were cartridge pleats or knife pleats.-Carol If pictures in books dont suit your taste, then for a good grovel, a CV, and a letter of introduction you can get into the Bath Museum of Costume and fondle the real thing. Other museums have their own rituals of supplication. grin I wonder if 18th will be fashionable among costume dance historians this year. When I saw Memoirs of a Geisha this weekend, there was a preview for Marie Antonette. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers
--- Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmm so you think they had a corset with tabs to which the bumroll was attached and over it the dress? So the dress itself should be of two parts - the skirt and the bodice. Zuzana The bodice and skirts were Cut separately, and then sewn together. Which separately cut pieces for torso skirting starts showing up, maybe, 1570-ish continues on with varying popularity up to the current day. The gowns were worn over chemise, corsets, and bumroll. Ann in CT __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Well, speaking as Sue the flower junkie, and not Susan the flower junkie g, no, not really. I've done collar and cuffs in an interlacing linear pattern of columbines (from a mid-16th century boy's shirt in the VA), and will some day do columbine slips for a Helena Snackenburg (sp???) inspired outfit, but hadn't considered the style you mentioned below. If only because, in part, I find the flowers so interesting in profile;o) The pattern from the boy's shirt is actually done in very tiny cross stitch. I believe mine worked out to about 30 stitches/inch, done using a single strand of royal blue Soie Cristale silk. I charted the design out for myself, using a delightful closeup of the collar that I just happened to find in a generalized overview-of-embroidery book from our local library. I have my theories about that design, which I hope to make into an article for competition at some point(ah, the bliss of research ;o) --Sue in Montana, where columbines are more of an early-mid Summer flower - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:25 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses This is the week for not finding things. I know I have seen a 1500s blackwork pattern of columbines. AAAHHH! Have you considered a full front view of the flower connected by lattice vines? De -Original Message- Cool. The genus name is Aquilegia. It's in the buttercup family. I've toyed with trying to transform one of the english columbines Elizabethan patterns into the American columbine. Ours is not as fat and the spurs are *much* longer. http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Wildflower/Images/columbine.jpg Susan, the (spring) wildflower junkie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re: [h-cost] italian childs renaissance dress
For a fun time, those interested in Victorian historical fancy dress will enjoy: http://lafayette.150m.com/dhblist.html Photos of the Devonshire House ball of 1897. The site often exceeds its bandwidth, but it is worth it to bookmark and come back later. The thumbnails start a couple of page downs down the page, and there are enlarged versions available. I found out it via this list a couple years ago. I haven't been able to read much of this list in a week or two (lots of life), so please forgive me if someone has mentioned it already! And if any of you are Lois McMaster-Bujold fans, I sent her the URL back-when and said looking at this sort of grand house helped me envision Vorkosigan House. She said it was just this sort of house she had in mind for it, and she enjoyed looking at the costumes, too. (Fangirl delight!) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent US postage with medieval images on it: http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures/1160846 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
In a message dated 2/15/2006 3:56:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By the way, this portrait is one of the reasons that i keep on saying that cartridge pleating was used in 18th century, even though the 18th century womens list has disagreed. I think you're right. The big difference in this gown and is say one of Madam de Pompadour's is this is not an open robe. It is a bodice with skirt attached. The crisp silk looks cartridge pleated to meit doesn't even look like those little 1/2 inch pleats you get in the 1770s and 80s. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] colonial
On some other sites the colors were dark green, teal, blue, blue green, and blue grey. :) annoying isn't it?:P The two paintings are different paintings. The close up is probably copied from the other. De -Original Message- http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_019.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher_018.jpg The color seems off in these pics. Anyway, Glen Close wears a replica of this gown [in a dark teal with pink roses and bows] in Dangerous Liaisons in the only scene where all the main characters are together, at the Salon, listening to the castrate singing Handel. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tudor roses(sleeves)
No worries! I think discussing theories like this is at least half the fun of any hobby. ;o) I would not have thought of attaching bits to the corset strap, but I know that could at least, in part, be attributed to me just not running into examples of it. When I was still wearing 16th century stuff for SCA garb, I always wore a strapless corset, so I tend not to think in strap terms ;o). It would definitely be easier to have those sleeves on (one way or t'other) before the gown-and-epaulets went one, I agree! It would be interesting to do a study or project on something like this, wouldn't it? and compare different methods and results? --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:35 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tudor roses(sleeves) I hadn't thought of the partlet and I think the weight might effect the lay of the partlet. Connecting to the corset strap is more possibility then proof. As I can see a person putting on the sleeves before the gown. The corset is where I would think it could connect and it would be easier to put the sleeves on that way then to push the sleeve cap up and attach. There is also a possibility that the sleeve could be attached with hook and eye just on the inside near the edge of the sleeve cap. Sorry for not being specific on docs. vs. conjecture. De -Original Message- Yes. Thanks for the clarification. I think that if the sleeves aren't part of a shirt, they'd either tie onto the armscye of the partlet, or *perhaps* the gown. Corset hadn't occured to me though...what led you to think of that? --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
Holy Crapola, that dress is beautiful, but really badly mounted. So I wouldn't trust all of their information, especially about the gown meeting edge to edge at the centrefront. I wish they had taken the time to mount the dress proprely, then you would be able to see all it's glory in the photos...they are great photos, I'm bummed ;-( Sorry about the other post, I hit send accidently :~ If you think the mounting was bad for that one, check this one out: http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_431.htm I LOVE this jacket, but it looks so awful there! If you are interested in more information about dresses from this time period, check out Janet Arnold's book on this period, I have it but I don't remember too many pictures with construction details. Maybe I will have to look at it again. also Louisbourg National Historic Site, published booklets on clothing from this time period a few years back, they are complete with patterns and tailoring details. Their website is http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/ , you may be able to contact them for a copy. Thanks! I will look into that. Costume Close-Up has been helpful for construction information but they only have limited close-ups and usually only one per garment. But every little bit helps! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Quoting Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well, speaking as Sue the flower junkie, and not Susan the flower junkie g, no, not really. I've done collar and cuffs in an interlacing linear pattern of columbines (from a mid-16th century boy's shirt in the VA), and will some day do columbine slips for a Helena Snackenburg (sp???) inspired outfit, but hadn't considered the style you mentioned below. If only because, in part, I find the flowers so interesting in profile;o) The pattern from the boy's shirt is actually done in very tiny cross stitch. I believe mine worked out to about 30 stitches/inch, done using a single strand of royal blue Soie Cristale silk. I charted the design out for myself, using a delightful closeup of the collar that I just happened to find in a generalized overview-of-embroidery book from our local library. I have my theories about that design, which I hope to make into an article for competition at some point(ah, the bliss of research ;o) Cool! (we Sue/Susan/Suzi have to stick together!) Do you by any chance have an accession number for the VA shirt -- or a reference for the Overview-Of-Embroidery book? I'd like to see that! Thanks, Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
I'd try small delicate flowers spread around the lower part of the skirt and in the bouquet. Ribbons should be delicat and not so bold since the color is so contrasted. I've made lots of wedding dresses and this is what I'd suggest. My wedding colors were ecru/cream with wine accents. I mixed pale baby blue in there every so often for contrast. Gold accents in the table fabrics and a gold ribbon in my bouquet of wine and cream colored silk flowers. I used silk lilacs in the chapel. Looked great to me. And in only 2 weeks to plan it all. - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:55 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] colonial Oooo wedding dress!:) What color? De Well, that has been the hardest part. I want to do a white-ish color white, cream, chanpagne, etc.) but my accent color is a deep purple-blue. I originally intended to make it white with the blue accents but the contrast is so big! I am still trying to figure out how to do it. I am very inspired by this painting: http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?32697+0+0 But I also like the split-skirt style like the garment just posted. Sighso many ideas and I only get to choose one! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] women costumes from The three musketeers
In a message dated 2/15/2006 2:45:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Evolution says its the bodice with the tabs which is the actually corset, but i dont believe they wore such short stays. I think they used the evolution shapes of the old renaissance stays. We dont know this, as no stays excist from this period. Their posture kind of tells me that they did wear corsets, also the way the breasts are lifted up. *** But when you get to the 1660s you have bodices mounted onto a boned lining [something that really helps with the horizontal neckline]. This suggests to me that there is some kind of transitional thing probably going on in the 1630s, It's like they start out with the corset with bodice over it but perhaps as the waistline rises, the bodices start getting tacked to the corset and then eventually, because of the high waist perhaps, the corset becomes the lining of the bodice. They are made up separately. Tabs and tassets seem to be present when some kind of lacing or tying up is necessary.like in a man's doublet where the hosen are laced to the doublet. With this logic, and also the attaching of rolls and pads and even farthingals to the corset under its tassets being common, I can see how this was transferred to the actual bodice, especially if it keeps a separate skirt up at the high waistline...either under or over the tassets. Also, sometimes you see an unstructured open gown over the quite complete in its own right rigid gown...that undergown acting like underpinnings of sorts. I could find pics in books pretty easily, but I don't know where to go on the web. If someone thinks they know what I'm talking about [hahahahahaha! Gotcha!] they might be so kind as to point me to some picture sources. This is not a period I have ever even made a gown foror studied too closely. But I like it, and always scrutinize images from it. I love Van Dyke! Maybe I'm thinking of some of his portraits. Y'know, we mostly think of underwear as underwearyou don't show it off and it's not outerwear to be seen. But in many periods, that distinction is definitely a blurry one...at least in informal affairs. The fashion designer, Versace, who loved to comb the Met Museum in NYC, and others, understood this and used these notions for effect; designing couture evening gowns that, from afar, look like bras and slips. You can see the residue of this too even in guys clothes when they show the top of their boxers. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is the week for not finding things. I know I have seen a 1500s blackwork pattern of columbines. AAAHHH! I'm pretty sure that there's one on the dragonbear site, if not the Elizabethan Blackwork Archives (or both .) RRGGGHH I *know* that I've seen one. Ill have to look at my stuff when I get home tonight. Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] colonial
Perhaps a very faint hint of color of purple/ blue (periwinkle?) for the dress material with eggshell white bows and underskirt. If you have the split, were you thinking of a quilted underskirt or leaving it plan? De -Original Message- Well, that has been the hardest part. I want to do a white-ish color white, cream, chanpagne, etc.) but my accent color is a deep purple-blue. I originally intended to make it white with the blue accents but the contrast is so big! I am still trying to figure out how to do it. I am very inspired by this painting: http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?32697+0+0 But I also like the split-skirt style like the garment just posted. Sighso many ideas and I only get to choose one! Diana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
I have both Arnold books and don't need them. If anyone is interested in buying them, let me know. They are beautiful but not what I needed. I accidently ordered the wrong time period first then had to get the earlier period one. SO I have them both now. - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] colonial Holy Crapola, that dress is beautiful, but really badly mounted. So I wouldn't trust all of their information, especially about the gown meeting edge to edge at the centrefront. I wish they had taken the time to mount the dress proprely, then you would be able to see all it's glory in the photos...they are great photos, I'm bummed ;-( If you are interested in more information about dresses from this time period, check out Janet Arnold's book on this period, also Louisbourg National Historic Site, published booklets on clothing from this time period a few years back, they are complete with patterns and tailoring details. Their website is http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/ , you may be able to contact them for a copy. For those who are interested in this era, come join me and a few hundred others at Louisbourg's Grande Encampment this year! Kelly/estela - Original Message - From: Diana Habra [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] colonial Ooo...look what I found. http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_238.htm De I LOVE this website! I know that they show the details to help sell the clothing but it is AWESOME for us historical costumers that may not ever get to study garments like these in person. Thanks so much for sharing! I am trying to design my wedding gown which will roughly be from this period and I am trying to find out all I can about construction techniques. This new colonial dress will be a big help. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Lightbown's European Medieval Jewellery
I hate to forward stuff, but if I had a few hundred lying around fallow I'd want this book: -- Forwarded message -- Originally posted to EK_AnS I have contacted the VA about a reprint of this book ['European Medieval Jewellery' by Ronald W. Lightbown]. It's been out of print for decades and it's almost the bible for medieval jewellery enthusiasts around the world. So many people are after a copy, that I thought it might be worthwhile finding out what the publisher thinks about a reprint. Now, generally they are not against the idea, but there are a few things they said: The book was and will be expensive. But seeing that the last available copy that I know of went for something ridiculous like $800 US, I would happily pay the £120 or £150 it cost originally - it's a great book and worth every penny (or cent or whathaveyou) They need to have a ballpark figure of how many people would be interested to buy it. If it is a close cut, those people might have to pledge themselves to buy it for it to be reprinted, if the number is overwhelming, they will probably not need to confirm every single buyer. Even though I know that there are several people who would love to have it, I also know that it's a different matter to actually have to buy it, once it's available. I have wanted it for ages, that's why I am doing this. In any case, before anything happens, they need a number. I am asking for your help now, in finding out how many people there would possibly be, who would be interested in buying a copy, if it is reprinted. All you medieval jewellery people, if you want it, please let me know or if you know someone who wants it, could you let them all know about it and tell them to let me know, too? If you could pass this on to as many people you know who might be interested or any groups you think might be interested as well, it would help a lot and I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks everyone, Caithlinn You can contact her at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: colonial
Just out of curiosity -- are the flowers in this lady's hair and corsage supposed to be real, and if not, how would they be made? http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pimage?32697+0+0 Thanks! Tea Rose ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking
That is quite a bit longer than I had imagined when I first read your email. Hope you weren't offended by my first response. I'm thinking that a gown that long would have to be held up when walking...perhaps the fashion that's depicted in Jan van Eyck's 'Marriage of Giovanni Arnolfini', in that painting, the dress is held up in front by her hand. I know that it's earlier than Tudor, but I've heard that the style held on for a good amount. You've got me thinking now! Kelly This image is direct, and shows what I mean. http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/assets/main/95_137_main.jpg I had always presumed that the outer gown was longer or the same length than the kirtle worn underneath, yet that seems to not be the case in this effigy, and apparently, in English gowns of the time. The kirtles shown in the effigy are very long, over the feet long, as in they would be a few inches lower than the ground long when you are standing. I don't follow how the skirts would be constantly pooling around your feet when you are standing and walking, and not trip a lot. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: work at home 'rituals'
I don't have a set routine of hours that I work - it tends to depend on what I'm making, and how interested in it I am, though I try to avoid too many evenings and weekends unless at the silly time of year (just before the new re-enactment season, and the time that the museums get their new annual budgets - i.e. about now-ish). But I prefer a more fluid day - I tend to work better knowing I have to get x, y, and z done today, than when working to strict times. I seem to get more done that way. I also tend to have more than one thing on the go at any given time (be it sewing or websites, or brochures, or whatever), so that when I start to tear out my hair over one thing, I can move onto something different for a bit. Or occasionally I'll go for a walk if I just want to rip everyhting to shreds. My start time can be anything from about 7am to about 11am, depending on how I feel, and whether or not I've done any work the night before (sometimes I do a bit after Nige goes to bed). My workroom is on the top floor of the house, so my journey to work involves climbing a flight of stairs. My 'at work' signal (clothes don't work - I've been known to wear pj's all day!!) is that I open the door of the room, switch on the light, and turn on the mains power to the machines and the radio (I listen to Radio 4 mostly, or books on tape when they're broadcasting repeats, or I'm bored with the news!). As soon as that's done I'm 'at work'. At some point during the day (time varies), I go and get lunch, and check e-mail and things while I'm eating. Then I go back to work. My finish time is between 6 and 6.30 pm, or when Nigel gets home (6.30 - 7.30), depending on how involved I am in what I'm doing. Of course, there are times when I literally work a 24 hour day, mainlining red bull, if there's a tight deadline - and there were a couple of times that I worked 130 or 140 hour weeks when I first started, but I really wouldn't recommend that to anyone!! :-) Debs ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Knitting Historians?
What a subject! Modern Knitting: http://www.newhouse.com/archive/sefton021406.html Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Feb 15, 2006, at 1:30 AM, Carol Kocian wrote: Hi Rosecelin, A good source of knit historians is the Historic Kint list. It's a Yahoogroup, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/historicknit/ You didn't say what era you friend prefers - different people concentrate on different time periods, cultures, etc. There are a lot of great discussions. And we have talked about crochet, too, and it's beginnings. I do 18th century and crochet is not around for that era, either. -Carol Recently there was a discussion about the history of knitting. I didn't really pay to much attention to it since I do not knit. But a friend of mine is a knitter and wants to talk to anyone who does know the history of knitting. If you can help, would you please contact me privately so I can get my friend in contact with you. Roscelin By the way, please excuse this question if it has been discussed. When did crocheting come along? I was told long ago that it started after 1650 - Is this true? I've been trying to convince a few of my needlework students that it is out of period for our group. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colors (was colonial)
Diana Habra wrote: Oooo wedding dress!:) What color? De Well, that has been the hardest part. I want to do a white-ish color white, cream, chanpagne, etc.) but my accent color is a deep purple-blue. I originally intended to make it white with the blue accents but the contrast is so big! I am still trying to figure out how to do it. Yellow? Maybe a paler yellow, but not too light. Get some shades of blue that graduate up to your darkest color, to soften the contrast. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT: work at home 'rituals'
Hello all as a fairly new costumer (for money) I am trying to establish a work-from-home pattern that doesn't involve quite so much tv - I know, I know... my brain is rotting as I type. I'm going to try having a special 'sewing uniform' - a work pinafore to cover my clothes - as a signal to my brain that now is work time. I got to wondering if other people have special rituals or procedures they do to separate their time, particularly those who work at home. You never know what useful info could come up, so I hope you forgive this meander slightly OT. Thanks, Katherine A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright ___ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italian childs renaissance dress
I'd like to see That one...(And who said that Victorians were lacking in a sense of humor... when it came to Dress? Kathleen - Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:27 PM Subject: Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italian childs renaissance dress At 18:14 15/02/2006, you wrote: I have in my collection just such a gown of the '70s that got reshaped and trotted out as QE1! It is indeed a hoot. My very favorite of these can be seen at The Museum of the City of NY: A purple velvet number of the late '70/ early '80s and worn by Mrs. Astor. She went to the party as a Light Bulb!! Her Diamond headdress provided the twinkling lights. I have a recent purchase of a fashion plate from the 1890's of a Bookworm - it was in German, so it took me a while to fathom out! Suzi Found this, and thoaght some of you might not have seen it yeat. http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=dresssubmit. x=3submit.y=10coll_start=81 I got to playing around with the search engine, and found this interesting gown, from the House of Worth. http://tinyurl.com/92mz4 I found it amusing that they would do a renaissance style gown for the well to do. I could almost see this gown on a friend of faire person, someone who likes to dress up with something that looks kinda right, but isn't. And in purple velvet, it's rather fetching. Kimiko I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress (costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
I don't have the accession number for the shirt, sorry, but you might be able to find pictures of it online (people's websites and blogs, if nothing else). Or maybe the VA website? I'll try to remember to dig around in my old bookmarks file this weekend, if someone else on the list doesn't beat me to it. ;o) I was quite singularly bummed out about not getting to see that darned shirt on my one-and-only visit to the VA, but they'd taken that exhibit down, and put in some stupid 20th century ballgown thing. (my apologies to those of you fond of such things, but they're not my cup of tea as clothing or as historical pieces) I'll have to root through my blackwork files to get the cite for the book, but that, I know I have. Give me a few days? --Sue (from Montana ;o) - Original Message - From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses snipped Cool! (we Sue/Susan/Suzi have to stick together!) Do you by any chance have an accession number for the VA shirt -- or a reference for the Overview-Of-Embroidery book? I'd like to see that! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Tudor patterns was Tudor rose
http://www.sewingcentral.com/cgi-bin/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=pp.htmlca rt_id=71329_959 Patterns 51 and 52 (need to scroll down) Sorry, for adults but can give an idea of what to look for in making you daughters outfit. I had thought that Margo Anderson was working on some Elizabethan children's patterns for her next major patterns but I guess I was thinking of another history pattern company. Once upon a time I could have sworn that there was a Tudor pattern for girls that with a bit o' tweaking could be very close to period in construction but I can't seem to find it. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Victorian ideas of Renaissance clothing, was Re:[h-cost]italian childs renaissance dress
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: I'd like to see That one...(And who said that Victorians were lacking in a sense of humor... when it came to Dress? Some of the examples I use during my talk on the Victorian view of historic costume come from a book called Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt, a very popular manual of ideas for costumes for fancy-dress parties. In addition to a large number of historical figures, it gave instructions (and a few illustrations) for how to dress as a deck of cards, a tea set, various flowers, etc. (The historical designs, of course, bore little resemblance to actual period costume of the historical figures.) --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Tudor effigies and women walking
This image is direct, and shows what I mean. http://www.jmdsrv1.dyndns.org/tudoreffigies/assets/main/95_137_main.jpg I had always presumed that the outer gown was longer or the same length than the kirtle worn underneath, yet that seems to not be the case in this effigy, and apparently, in English gowns of the time. The kirtles shown in the effigy are very long, over the feet long, as in they would be a few inches lower than the ground long when you are standing. I don't follow how the skirts would be constantly pooling around your feet when you are standing and walking, and not trip a lot. Kimiko I generally wear my 14th/15th century garb (both kirtle and gown layers) at past-my-feet level as you describe, and once you've practiced in it a bit, it's not as bad as you would think. If I'm walking a long distance or outdoors, I pick my skirts up, and going up stairs can be slightly tricky, but if I'm indoors and wearing appropriate shoes (turnshoes) I can just kick the hems out of my way as I walk. YMMV, of course... Jennifer / Guenièvre ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Tudor Roses
- Original Message - From: Kahlara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:47 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Tudor Roses Found this embroidery pattern while looking for something else. They call it English Rose but it looks like the right thing to me. Hope it helps. http://www.dragonbear.com/cenrose.html Annette M Actually a Tudor rose usually only has 2 layers (one rose on top of another) a better pattern would be the 'Queen's Order of Courtesy' pattern at the bottom of this page http://www.dragonbear.com/ekbadges.html with red and white petals (there is no firm rule about wether the red rose is in front of the white rose or vice versa) with a yellow centre and green leaves. Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] colonial
If pictures in books dont suit your taste, then for a good grovel, a CV, and a letter of introduction you can get into the Bath Museum of Costume and fondle the real thing. Other museums have their own rituals of supplication. grin Well, my CV is not applicable because I haven't done much costume professionally. I didn't need a letter of introduction, and I didn't grovel, either. Of course, I was just looking at stockings, not gowns - maybe they're fussier with the gowns. A lot of museums are open to visits by dedicated amateurs, you just need to phone and write ahead of time and understand that many places are understaffed. It helps to belong to the Costume Society, and meet curators that way. The more people you meet, the more cool stuff you can see, then you meet more people, and see more stuff... I started 20 years ago looking at lace at the Met in New York. Somebody helpfully told me all you have to do is make an appointment. And it worked! It's nice to arrive bearing gifts - chocolate is always correct. And if going over there (wherever over there is), books published over here are nice, too. A lot of people have opportunities to visit collections, so if the question is out there then people may remember to look when they do have the chance to examine original gowns. And then there are the symposium weekends, where a curator and/or private collector brings their originals to show off. So yes, I believe in looking at originals to learn the techniques that were used. Also, regarding American vs European - some collections in America include European clothing. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
