RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: getting smoke smell out of fabrics
There is a spray product available at places such as Home Depot that does a very good job of removing smoke smells from things. I didn't use it on clothing, but read the label and see if it's recommended or not. A few years back our kitchen caught fire and this spray really did an excellent job on the house, including the furniture. I gave the rest of the can to my sister to get the tobacco pipe smell out of her car after her husband has been driving it for a while. She said it worked there as well. Sorry I can't remember the exact name but it was located in the cleaning section of HD. ::Linda:: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Thurman Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 9:12 PM To: Historic Costume List Subject: [h-cost] semi-OT: getting smoke smell out of fabrics My mom is quitting smoking and my sister is trying to get the smoke smell out of her clothes and linens (only reason I'm not is because I live too far away!) So far she's tried 2 washes with baking soda-based laundry detergent and drying with a scented dryer sheet, but the stink is still there. I've found a few online references (http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/laundry/msg0715272815935.html?4, http://ask.yahoo.com/20021212.html, http://www.howtogetridofstuff.com/odor-removal/how-to-get-rid-of-cigaret te-smoke-smell) and while I'm still researching, I have a few questions: 1) most of the recommendations I've read for removing tobacco smoke from fabrics involve phospate based detergents, vinegar, and/or ammonia. This is great for whites, but will this affect dyed fabrics? 2) my mom is very wash and wear so most of her clothing (as well as linens) are cottons and cotton-poly blends. What about the odd wool or silk items? 3) Any further recommendations? Thanks in advance, Allison T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] book: Prayers and Portraits
Hey, I never told you to BUY the book! ;-) That's what Inter- Library Loan is for Suzanne From: Wanda Pease [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: March 9, 2008 9:40:15 PM CDT To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [h-cost] book: Prayers and Portraits Reply-To: Historical Costume h-costume@mail.indra.com I have one word for you: Enabler!! Book is for Sale on Amazon for a mere (!) $54.00. Regina -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:h-costume- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Suzanne Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 10:17 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] book: Prayers and Portraits I want to share my enthusiasm for a big, lovely, art book that I found at the library. Prayers and Portraits: unfolding the Netherlandish diptych ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: Where are the Lectures?
I have been doing this for a couple of years now through the Scottsdale Center for the Arts and also the Phoenix Art Museum as well as some college lecturing. Also, our PAM has a costume institute - so that small group is always happy for a lecture or demonstration. My suggestion is to contact a local museum, art center, or college and offer up your services. Offer a topic to them and solicit ideas...they are thrilled whenever I do something. I should note, I've only been paid once for doing this, and I think it worked out to less than $5.00 an hour, but it is SO much fun! Sg _ Have any of you ever been asked to speak publicly about period clothing of any era? A lady friend of mine asked me a very lovely question last night and I may need a little advice before giving her a reply. She was told about my collection of antique clothing and my general passion for it, and asked if I ever hold public programs involving them. I told her I haven't yet but am honoured to be considered in doing so. The program would be about 45 minutes and I am trying to come up with a theme for it, a way in which I can utlize my collection for such a purpose since I am far from having a complete collection of anything. If anyone could offer any suggestions for a program theme and would need to know what I have to work with please email me directly. Take care everybody:) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: getting smoke smell out of fabrics
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't tried it on smoke, but good old White Vinegar is my fall back. Lord knows it works for getting a certain cat smell out of fabric for me! Does it work when the cat is a smoker? -- Antonia Calvo (formerly known as Adele de Maisieres) - Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: getting smoke smell out of fabrics
I haven't tried it on smoke, but good old White Vinegar is my fall back. Lord knows it works for getting a certain cat smell out of fabric for me! Henry Osier Chief Spy Costume-Con 28 in Milwaukee in 2010 www.CC28.org View the latest Intell: http://agent-milw.livejournal.com/ Questions?: http://community.livejournal.com/costume_con_28/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] semi-OT: getting smoke smell out of fabrics
If you have the capability the best thing I've ever found for getting smoke out of fabrics is simply to give them a really good airing - preferably outdoors. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] . Re: semi-OT: getting smoke smell out of fabrics
We had some threads come in on a special order (the type you can't return). Well, they were the nastiest smelling things due to someone being a smoker where they were stored. Someone made the suggestion to put the threads in a paper bag then put the bag into the freezer over night. Surprisingly enough, it worked. Being in the freezer killed the icky tobacco smoke stink. Hope this helps. Peggy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] saint/iconography question
We've been looking at this painting http://www.wga.hu/art/l/lorenzo/monaco/ador_mag.jpg Billed as Adoration of the Magi by Lorenzo Monaco ca. 1422 Are those really the Magi? (The folks with the halo's). To my *very* untrained eye, they remind me more of saints than Magi. The individual in the peach/orange with the blue head-wrap reminds me more of The Magdalene rather than one of the Magi. I'm not that good with early 15th c. art or saints iconography -- and I know that there are folks on this list that are more knowledgeable than I. Half my brain tells me that I should just take the painting title at face value and go with it, but those 3 individuals aren't like any other representations of Magi that I've seen. Thanks! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] saint/iconography question
Well, here is my opion: I love the Christian art from Early through the Byzantine Era. At that time, any who actively participated in the Nativity paintings were given the halo to distinguish who were important and those who were incidental to the painting. Mother, baby, Joseph and magi had that honor. It was as if to say these people were touched by God to be there at that time, to witness this special event.. the birth of God's Son made into human flesh. The fulfilment of the prophesies of the Jewish Bible/Torah. The magi were well educated men, usually of high ranking and social status... so people would believe them. They researched the star for many years before finding the Christ child. THey had travelled for mnay months to get there at just the right time. Joseph was given this honor because God and his angels had told him that Mary had notbetrayed their marriage vow. Joseph was to raise the holy child and guide him until he was old enough to begin his teachings. Mary, of course. was the Holy Vessel in which the Holy Child was made flesh. She was perfect in God's eyes, the symbol of the love and caring that only a mother can have most of the time. Mary had been choosen long before she was told by the angel. The halos themselves held stars to represent the heavens and godly environments. This was the symbol of heaven... the star... just like the star that shone that night. I say all this because I took a class on Early Christian Art and Iconography. I did research on the Madonna and Child in the Haga Sophia. Through that research, I read lots of books trying to find out what each part meant. The colors, the jewels, the way the people were portrayed by posture... right down to that white hanky on Mary's finger. I finally found out what that was last year. I met a man who was Orthodox Christian from Constantinople/Istanbul. He told me that the handkerchief respresented the partonage of Mary, who was the parton saint of that city. Through her, the city prospered and was under her protection. Some say the cloth represented the swaddling clothes, or the cloth in which the body of Christ was wrapped (especially the cloth that was put over the face of the dead before wrapping and oils applied) or the cloth to wipe away her tears at his death. Either way, the symbolism is a wide open field. Well worth reading if you're really interested. Look in iconography books and symbol books. Sorry so long a message but I love that research. Great stuff to those Christians that don't know and aren't taught in thier churches either. Most of the symbolism is lost to the books when it does have a bearing on any faith in the world, Christian, Jew, Hebrew or Moslim. Don't know about other religions but all have symbolism.Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:58:23 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Subject: [h-cost] saint/iconography question We've been looking at this painting http://www.wga.hu/art/l/lorenzo/monaco/ador_mag.jpg Billed as Adoration of the Magi by Lorenzo Monaco ca. 1422 Are those really the Magi? (The folks with the halo's). To my *very* untrained eye, they remind me more of saints than Magi. The individual in the peach/orange with the blue head-wrap reminds me more of The Magdalene rather than one of the Magi. I'm not that good with early 15th c. art or saints iconography -- and I know that there are folks on this list that are more knowledgeable than I. Half my brain tells me that I should just take the painting title at face value and go with it, but those 3 individuals aren't like any other representations of Magi that I've seen. Thanks! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] saint/iconography question
H. I'm usually pretty good at this (Catholic school fom grade 1 through grad school) I would have thought the person in the front in red was probably Mary Magdelene because the cup is part of the iconography and it looks like a woman. But I am stumped. St. Joseph is the guy in yellow at the left. Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Susan Farmer Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:58 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] saint/iconography question We've been looking at this painting http://www.wga.hu/art/l/lorenzo/monaco/ador_mag.jpg Billed as Adoration of the Magi by Lorenzo Monaco ca. 1422 Are those really the Magi? (The folks with the halo's). To my *very* untrained eye, they remind me more of saints than Magi. The individual in the peach/orange with the blue head-wrap reminds me more of The Magdalene rather than one of the Magi. I'm not that good with early 15th c. art or saints iconography -- and I know that there are folks on this list that are more knowledgeable than I. Half my brain tells me that I should just take the painting title at face value and go with it, but those 3 individuals aren't like any other representations of Magi that I've seen. Thanks! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] saint/iconography question
Well, not that I'm trained either...but if you zoom in the two guys kneeling have crowns by their feet, indicating their royalty I assume, which would point to Magi/Kings. Ah - the third crown is behind the back of the standing guy. Also, I don't know when it started, but one of the Magi very often is dressed like a far eastern/persian (vs. two that look more European), which may by the one with the blue wrap around his head. They are also all carrying small vials/gifts, which would again be Magi. Also, Jesus is an infant, and the Magdalene doesn't show up in the Biblical account until He is well into His ministry (after age 30). So, that's my two cents. *** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence Bristol Renaissance Faire My arms are too short to box with God. --Johnny Cash *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Farmer Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:58 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] saint/iconography question We've been looking at this painting http://www.wga.hu/art/l/lorenzo/monaco/ador_mag.jpg Billed as Adoration of the Magi by Lorenzo Monaco ca. 1422 Are those really the Magi? (The folks with the halo's). To my *very* untrained eye, they remind me more of saints than Magi. The individual in the peach/orange with the blue head-wrap reminds me more of The Magdalene rather than one of the Magi. I'm not that good with early 15th c. art or saints iconography -- and I know that there are folks on this list that are more knowledgeable than I. Half my brain tells me that I should just take the painting title at face value and go with it, but those 3 individuals aren't like any other representations of Magi that I've seen. Thanks! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] saint/iconography question
Quoting monica spence [EMAIL PROTECTED]: H. I'm usually pretty good at this (Catholic school fom grade 1 through grad school) I would have thought the person in the front in red was probably Mary Magdelene because the cup is part of the iconography and it looks like a woman. But I am stumped. See, that's what I thought. The belt makes it look like a woman's garment; but the bearded man on the horse in the background is also wearing a belted garment. It's got me stumped; but I'm so far out of my league on this one! St. Joseph is the guy in yellow at the left. nods. That one I knew! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] saint/iconography question
Ah - the third crown is behind the back of the standing guy. Yes, held by a woman (?) who is also holding a sword. My guess is that the Magi are the three bearded men with halos. The one with the blue headwrap seems to be wearing a high-waisted gown and seems to have breasts. No cloak like the three (definite) men are wearing. Notice also the woman holding the sword and crown also has blue gloves, as does the guy with the pointy beard and blue turban wrap. At first I thought Magi in green held a sword, but it looks more like the lining of his cloak. Interesting painting! -Carol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Farmer Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:58 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] saint/iconography question We've been looking at this painting http://www.wga.hu/art/l/lorenzo/monaco/ador_mag.jpg Billed as Adoration of the Magi by Lorenzo Monaco ca. 1422 Are those really the Magi? (The folks with the halos). To my *very* untrained eye, they remind me more of saints than Magi. The individual in the peach/orange with the blue head-wrap reminds me more of The Magdalene rather than one of the Magi. I'm not that good with early 15th c. art or saints iconography -- and I know that there are folks on this list that are more knowledgeable than I. Half my brain tells me that I should just take the painting title at face value and go with it, but those 3 individuals aren't like any other representations of Magi that I've seen. Thanks! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] saint/iconography question
How do you determine that the person holding the sword and crown is a woman? My scan of the crowd seems to show all men, and holding a sword would definitely be a man's job. The gown worn is pretty much the same as the black man in pink directly to his right. And as mentioned before, the man in yellow sitting in the corner is definitely Joseph. For one, he has no brocaded trim on his gown. Not sure if yellow is significant (probably!) And I still think the red-gowned person is the third Magi, as 1) that is where the crown is and 2) this person is holding one of the three gifts. Yellow gowned Joseph is not. Where is Robin to tell us all how far off we are??? :-) *** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence Bristol Renaissance Faire My arms are too short to box with God. --Johnny Cash *** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 9:03 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] saint/iconography question Ah - the third crown is behind the back of the standing guy. Yes, held by a woman (?) who is also holding a sword. My guess is that the Magi are the three bearded men with halos. The one with the blue headwrap seems to be wearing a high-waisted gown and seems to have breasts. No cloak like the three (definite) men are wearing. Notice also the woman holding the sword and crown also has blue gloves, as does the guy with the pointy beard and blue turban wrap. At first I thought Magi in green held a sword, but it looks more like the lining of his cloak. Interesting painting! -Carol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Farmer Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:58 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] saint/iconography question We've been looking at this painting http://www.wga.hu/art/l/lorenzo/monaco/ador_mag.jpg Billed as Adoration of the Magi by Lorenzo Monaco ca. 1422 Are those really the Magi? (The folks with the halos). To my *very* untrained eye, they remind me more of saints than Magi. The individual in the peach/orange with the blue head-wrap reminds me more of The Magdalene rather than one of the Magi. I'm not that good with early 15th c. art or saints iconography -- and I know that there are folks on this list that are more knowledgeable than I. Half my brain tells me that I should just take the painting title at face value and go with it, but those 3 individuals aren't like any other representations of Magi that I've seen. Thanks! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] saint/iconography question
Joseph is the one in the left lower corner in yellow. The Magi in red seems to be a little fancier then the other two. There is always one magi that looks different (Persian, young,...), but this one definitely looks female. A larger picture helps a wee bit. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Don_Lorenzo_Monaco_001.jp g http://tinyurl.com/2xxo2r Here the young mens garments have two waistline?(A bit blurry) http://tinyurl.com/ytvw4m The retainer in lavender has a liripipe on not a high waisted belt. You can see a lower waistline on him. http://pintura.aut.org/BU04?Autnum=11710Empnum=0Inicio=16 In the beheading of St. Catherine,(#19) the man to the far right appears to have it tied a few inches above the natural waistline. But the Virgin Annunciate (#24) shows a high waistline. :P Anyway the hair indicates male even if the waistline suggests female. -Original Message- Ah - the third crown is behind the back of the standing guy. Yes, held by a woman (?) who is also holding a sword. My guess is that the Magi are the three bearded men with halos. The one with the blue headwrap seems to be wearing a high-waisted gown and seems to have breasts. No cloak like the three (definite) men are wearing. Notice also the woman holding the sword and crown also has blue gloves, as does the guy with the pointy beard and blue turban wrap. At first I thought Magi in green held a sword, but it looks more like the lining of his cloak. Interesting painting! -Carol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Farmer Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:58 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] saint/iconography question We've been looking at this painting http://www.wga.hu/art/l/lorenzo/monaco/ador_mag.jpg Billed as Adoration of the Magi by Lorenzo Monaco ca. 1422 Are those really the Magi? (The folks with the halos). To my *very* untrained eye, they remind me more of saints than Magi. The individual in the peach/orange with the blue head-wrap reminds me more of The Magdalene rather than one of the Magi. I'm not that good with early 15th c. art or saints iconography -- and I know that there are folks on this list that are more knowledgeable than I. Half my brain tells me that I should just take the painting title at face value and go with it, but those 3 individuals aren't like any other representations of Magi that I've seen. Thanks! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] saint/iconography question
Rebecca Schmitt wrote: And as mentioned before, the man in yellow sitting in the corner is definitely Joseph. For one, he has no brocaded trim on his gown. Not sure if yellow is significant (probably!) Yes to all. Yellow is one of the Jewish clues in art of some places and periods, very likely including this one. And I still think the red-gowned person is the third Magi, as 1) that is where the crown is and 2) this person is holding one of the three gifts. Correct. One of the Magi is routinely shown as a beardless, beautiful youth, dressed in particularly exotic foreign dress. That's him. The other two, according to custom, are middle-aged and old respectively, so they represent the three ages of man. (In Northern painting, but not so often in Italian, the three are also typically of different races -- white Western European, swarthy or black African, and some attempt at Asian or, failing that, Eastern European. These patterns don't match up consistently with the age distribution; e.g. sometimes the African is young, sometimes middle-aged.) Often people look at the gift out of context and think it's the Magdalen's ointment jar, but that's obviously not the correct reading here. The entire painting is very formulaic; that's part the artist's deliberate attempt to make sure the viewer recognizes it. You have mother, baby, three haloed figures in exotic dress, three crowns, three gifts, the stable setting; these are the necessary ingredients for the Magi scene. Positions are pretty standardized also: One of the Magi is presenting a gift, the others waiting, at least one of them kneeling. Joseph is in the corner, placed as observer but not participant (look at the direction of the gazes). And so on. Artists will sometimes play with the arrangement of a formulaic scene for artistic purposes. Because people are used to seeing a scene done in a certain way, making a change can be a way to call attention to some aspect, e.g. you might direct the Virgin's gaze the position of a donor, or align the figures to place emphasis on some element of the setting. I don't think we need to read the young Magus as a woman, though; that would be beyond the scope of the sort of artistic alteration one sees in this period. And although this figure has feminine elements, you do see a *lot* of Italian youths who look feminine to our eyes. The figures standing around all look to me like male entourage -- lots of foreign elements in the headwear, etc. I'd like to know more about the circumstances of the image; there may be a religious order that has some significance in the representation here. Lots of stuff going on up top, most noticeably the Annunciation to the Shepherds. No idea about that little cloud of praying angels on the stable wall. Where is Robin to tell us all how far off we are??? :-) Robin has been fighting with e-mail trouble all day. If you've tried to write me and it bounced, keep trying. I'm still yelling at my ISP. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
