Re: [h-cost] CC27

[Judy Mitchell]

Hi all,

  ak, there is now a chat group on yahoo for discussing all things 
CostumeCon.  It will stay up 
(hopefully) and transfer to each successive year's concom, so it isn't 
one year spcific and you won't have to join each time. One of the 
co-chairs is already on board, so come, feel free to ask any questions 
about how CC27 is going, what is happening and discuss amongst 
yourselves what you are planning on doing there. Have fun!


-Judy Mitchell
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[h-cost] celtic knot designs

[Kathleen Gillies]

Hi Zuzana, I saw this link last weekend on one of my other lists.  
http://www.gracefulembroidery.com/index.html

They were advertising a new design collection of celtic knots.  I don't know if 
this is what you are looking for as I could not find a pic at your link.  I 
have never purchased any designs from this seller but apparently she has a good 
reputation.

I hope this helps
Kathy
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Re: [h-cost] Finished Empire Gown

[Gilbert]

Ann (almost a neighbor),

Thank you for your kind words!

Yes, finished! Hurrah! Though I think I won't wear the gown to go shopping 
as I originally threatened as the train is such a bother (to myself and 
others). Better for promenading sedately in book stores or less trafficked 
places...


Resizing is challenging. You must be quite tall to have to add 9 inches to 
the hem.


Thank you for your kind words!

Marjorie

Marjorie Gilbert
author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England
www.marjoriegilbert.net
http://historicalfictionbooks.ning.com/profile/MarjorieGilbert
- Original Message - 
From: "Ann Catelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished Empire Gown


The gown suits you very nicely.
And you got it Done! Hurrah!

I sympathize with the sizing issues--I tend to go to the other extreme, and 
start with my measurements & add, add, add.  I had to put in a 9" hem this 
July, which is fairly absurd for a quickie gown to wear camping.


And what d'ye mean, OT?  Historic clothing is the raison d'être of this 
list, and quite on topic. :)


Ann in CT



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Re: [h-cost] OT: Finished Empire Gown

[ruthanneb]

The dress diary is very interesting. I've been flirting with a gown from one of 
the Albert books for some time and may now get up the nerve to try it.
BUT the most enjoyable part of your site is the 
What-kind-of-romance-novel-heroine-are-you quiz. I took it in the spirit of fun 
and discovered that the result is a pretty good picture of the actual me! Who 
knew?
Thanks so much for your posting!
--Ruth Anne Baumgartner
scholar gypsy and amateur costumer

-Original Message-
>From: Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sep 15, 2008 2:57 PM
>To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Finished Empire Gown
>
>Dear All,
>
>I've been working an an Empire gown (well, actually three which I had to 
>size up until I got one that fit me) for over a year, and now it's done. You 
>can see it in progress on my website www.marjoriegilbert.net, as well as a 
>section on the stays I made for it, and how to get dressed in the gown 
>(which is a bit of a process).
>
>I hope you enjoy it!
>
>Marjorie
>
>Marjorie Gilbert
>author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England
>www.marjoriegilbert.net
>http://historicalfictionbooks.ning.com/profile/MarjorieGilbert
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Cin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:31 PM
>Subject: Re: [h-cost] CC-27
>
>
>> Yes'm.  Looks like my request was filled before I made it.
>> Thanks,
>> --cin
>> Cynthia Barnes
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>> From: Judy Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>I have passed on all the concerns to the Powers That Be. The 
>>> website
>>> will hopefully get worked over this week, as to a chat list.. is there
>>> really interest? I've been given permission to start one up on yahoo if
>>> people want it. Will that do?
>>>
>>> -Judy Mitchell
>> ___
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>> 
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] Celtic design in costume question.

[Chris Laning]

On Sep 14, 2008, at 1:11 AM, Kimiko Small wrote:


--- On Fri, 9/12/08, Saragrace Knauf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Does anyone recall coming across the use of Celtic designs
in medieval/renaissance clothing?  Like designs in fabric,
or even a belt?



I think it would depend on the design in question. I've seen what  
we call "celtic knots" as embroidered decorations, from blackwork,  
to the curtains behind Henry VIII, to the embroidery seen on  
Francois of France's doublet and sleeves.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Jean_Clouet_001.jpg
Those really aren't so much celtic, but came from the middle east,  
that traveled into Europe, and ended up in many of the pattern  
books of the 16th century.


But if you mean the triskelion designs similar to the cover of the  
book you linked to, not that I have seen on fabric. It has been  
many years ago, but I think I remember those from stone crosses.



As one who has frequently been complimented on the "Celtic knotwork"  
on my Renaissance gown  Yes, knotwork was very popular in many  
parts of Renaissance Europe. Clouet's portrait of King Francis I of  
France and the portraits of Henry VIII are full of it.


But there isn't any real connection to "Celtic" in this case -- it's  
just knotwork. And you don't see the contorted beasts, or many of the  
other aspects of design (like triskelions) that we associate with the  
"Celtic knotwork" that you see in manuscripts, jewelry, et cetera.


For some examples of Renaissance knotwork and a bit of discussion:
http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/interlace.html


OChris Laning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Davis, California
+ http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com




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Re: [h-cost] OT: Finished Empire Gown

[Gilbert]

The dress diary is very interesting. I've been flirting with a gown from 
one of the Albert books for some time and may now get up the nerve to try 
it.



I hope you do go for it, Ruth! Why the heck not? I hope you do what I 
didn't, and that's work with mock-ups more. Had I done that, I would have 
saved myself time, I think...


Glad you liked the diary and the quiz!

Marjorie

Marjorie Gilbert
author of THE RETURN, a historical novel set in Georgian England
www.marjoriegilbert.net
http://historicalfictionbooks.ning.com/profile/MarjorieGilbert 



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[h-cost] OT-Over-dyeing wool melton

[zelda crusher]

You guys know wool better than any sewing list I belong to...
I know that some of this has been covered previously, but I had no luck finding 
it in the archives (I am only semi computer literate).
 
I have two questions about this fabric:
http://tinyurl.com/5bwd3h
 
1) I am going to make a coat for my 16 year old daughter (some of you may 
remember I just did this last spring 
[http://laswa.livejournal.com/24074.html#cutid1]), but she wore it in the rain 
and her father's girlfriend threw it in the dryer and it shrank down too much 
to use.  Sigh.  Is it practicable to pre-shrink the fabric enough to prevent 
this happening again?  And still have the fabric be usable (ie not wavy and 
weird to work with)?
 
2) The color is a little loud for even her, so I would like to overdye it, to 
perhaps one of these two shades.  I know dyeing is always a bit unpredicatable, 
but how do I guess what color to overdye with to get what shade?
 
http://tinyurl.com/5hbaw6
 
http://tinyurl.com/6f29yg
 
Thanks so much,
Laurie
 
 
_
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Re: [h-cost] OT-Over-dyeing wool melton

[Land of Oz]

1) .  Is it practicable to pre-shrink the fabric enough to prevent this 
happening again?  And still have the fabric be usable (ie not wavy and 
weird to work with)?


2)   I know dyeing is always a bit unpredicatable, but how do I guess what 
color to overdye with to get what shade?





Yes, you can pre-shrink.

For both questions, you need to use samples.  Cut a square of fabric and 
measure it. The bigger the better if you want to evaluate the 
hand/thickness/flexibility, etc. Wash and dry the sample, measuring it 
BEFORE and AFTER. Keep notes.  If you can buy enough extra, do several. Wash 
all of them once, save one out and label it 1, wash and dry the rest, save 
one out and label it 2, etc. This will tell you if the fabric continues to 
shrink after 2 or 3 washes.


The fabric is less likely to get wavy if it isn't twisted and pulled while 
washing. Using a front loader will help, but the rate of shrinkage might be 
less per washing.


As for dyeing, you'll have to cut lots of small samples (2x2 at least) and 
test several different strengths of dye, and maybe several colors.   You 
might be able to just use the color you want (raspberry) and overdye with a 
medium strength. You might need a weak grey, blue or tan, etc. depending on 
what kinds of colors are "inside" the dyes used on the fabric and the dyes 
you use to shift it to a duller pink.


Experiment, Experiment, Experiment.  ;-)
Denise B 


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Re: [h-cost] OT-Over-dyeing wool melton

[Kim Baird]

You can't make a fuchsia into a lighter pink, you''ll have to go darker, or
at least toned down.

I would try some brown dye on it. Start with a smaller amount--you can
always re-dye darker, if you need to. 

Why don't you just put in a label that says DRY CLEAN ONLY?

Kim

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of zelda crusher
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:29 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] OT-Over-dyeing wool melton


You guys know wool better than any sewing list I belong to...
I know that some of this has been covered previously, but I had no luck
finding it in the archives (I am only semi computer literate).
 
I have two questions about this fabric:
http://tinyurl.com/5bwd3h
 
1) I am going to make a coat for my 16 year old daughter (some of you may
remember I just did this last spring
[http://laswa.livejournal.com/24074.html#cutid1]), but she wore it in the
rain and her father's girlfriend threw it in the dryer and it shrank down
too much to use.  Sigh.  Is it practicable to pre-shrink the fabric enough
to prevent this happening again?  And still have the fabric be usable (ie
not wavy and weird to work with)?
 
2) The color is a little loud for even her, so I would like to overdye it,
to perhaps one of these two shades.  I know dyeing is always a bit
unpredicatable, but how do I guess what color to overdye with to get what
shade?
 
http://tinyurl.com/5hbaw6
 
http://tinyurl.com/6f29yg
 
Thanks so much,
Laurie
 
 
_
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows
Live.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/
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[h-cost] Ancient Egypt perfume/wax cones on head?

[Cynthia Virtue]

Hi H-Cost!

In grade school, I was told that pictures like this 
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/womena6.jpg showed ancient 
Egyptian women with perfumed wax or fat on their heads, which melted 
over the course of the evening, and smelled good.


It recently came to mind again, and I've tried to find citations for 
this, but all I can find is people repeating it without providing any 
other details.  I thirst for a source!  A good source!


Really, it does seem ridiculous.  Not just the basic idea, but the 
consequences.  First, you get melted wax or fat in your wig.  This is 
probably difficult to clean out (although I suppose you could just hand 
it to the servants and not worry about it.)  Next, the wax or oil or fat 
gets all over your skin.  This is a hot country and being covered in 
oozing wax is probably unpleasant, even if it smells nice.  It makes it 
hard to stay cool.  Thirdly, all those diaphanous pleated gowns would 
soon look like the tail end of a wet T-shirt contest, which I could 
understand being somewhat interesting for half the population, but seems 
unlikely to be a popular fashion statement.


But I could be totally off-base.  Without any kind of authority that I 
can find, though, I am frustrated.


Any leads or suggestions?

cv
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Re: [h-cost] OT-Over-dyeing wool melton

[AlbertCat]

 
In a message dated 9/16/2008 12:54:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Experiment, Experiment, Experiment.   ;-)



Indeed!
 
I can tell you if you dye a fuchsia fabric with a plumb color (purplish  
blue) you get a great concord grape purple! Anyway
 
If a raspberry is the color you want, you'll want to go to the red not  to 
the blue on your already fuchsia and "kill" it a tiny bit. Usually  the 
complimentary color will kill the intensity of a colorin this case a  
green. A 
drop or two of greenish grey with that red may do the trick.
 
I suggest even before experimenting, get a color wheel from an art shop so  
you can better determine where colors come from and how "far away" from your  
goal you are to start with. Also...have a specific goal. Get a color swatch 
 even paint chips from the paint dept are good that is the final color 
you  want so you have a firm goal to work towards.



**Pt...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, 
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.  
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty000514)
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Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egypt perfume/wax cones on head?

[Hanna Zickermann]

Hi,

maybe there´s something in "The artifice of 
beauty" by Sally Pointer? I didn´t have the 
chance to read it yet, but at first glance it looked most promising.


Hanna


At 20:00 16.09.2008, you wrote:

Hi H-Cost!

In grade school, I was told that pictures like 
this 
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/womena6.jpg 
showed ancient Egyptian women with perfumed wax 
or fat on their heads, which melted over the 
course of the evening, and smelled good.


It recently came to mind again, and I've tried 
to find citations for this, but all I can find 
is people repeating it without providing any 
other details.  I thirst for a source!  A good source!


Really, it does seem ridiculous.  Not just the 
basic idea, but the consequences.  First, you 
get melted wax or fat in your wig.  This is 
probably difficult to clean out (although I 
suppose you could just hand it to the servants 
and not worry about it.)  Next, the wax or oil 
or fat gets all over your skin.  This is a hot 
country and being covered in oozing wax is 
probably unpleasant, even if it smells nice.  It 
makes it hard to stay cool.  Thirdly, all those 
diaphanous pleated gowns would soon look like 
the tail end of a wet T-shirt contest, which I 
could understand being somewhat interesting for 
half the population, but seems unlikely to be a popular fashion statement.


But I could be totally off-base.  Without any 
kind of authority that I can find, though, I am frustrated.


Any leads or suggestions?

cv
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[h-cost] I saw it!!!!!

[Pixel, Goddess and Queen]

I saw the sleeve! *bounce* *bounce* *bounce*

Yesterday we got back from a week in England, which included a weekend in 
London. Although the VA and the British Museum are currently remodeling 
their medieval galleries, the Museum of London is *not* (having already 
done so) and so my consort and I had something to occupy ourselves on 
Saturday while my husband attended an SCA event and did geeky herald 
things.


The MoL does not ban photography. And they have many nifty things one 
can see and take pictures of and fantasize about fondling. Including the 
14th c. sleeve fragment. It's in a glass display case along with some 
textile production tools out where everyone can see. I was inches away 
from the actual sleeve! I was overcome with emotion, but not so much that 
I couldn't focus the camera. And I confess that the only reason I did not 
leave noseprints on the glass is because my eyes can't focus very well 
that close, but I did steam it up a bit. :-)


My consort does not get to make fun of me because he was having similar 
geekstasies over the riveted mail hauberk in the next case over.


The sleeve is very small, as if for a child, which leads one to speculate 
on whether it's shrunk over time or was that small to begin with. They 
don't have anything useful like measurements or anything in the cases, but 
at least the actual dimensions and other necessary and/or helpful pieces 
of information are in _Textiles and Clothing_ if one needs them.


Once the slides have been developed, mine can be scanned and then 
hopefully more research can take place.


Some other costumey stuff like the effigy of John Seymour (Jane Seymour's 
father) and the effigies of whomever is buried opposite Bishop Bekynton at 
Wells Cathedral (15th c, IIRC) and the effigy of some other guy in an 
Elizabethan ruff in some church somewhere (I have notes, don't worry!).


Still swooning,

Jen/Margaret
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Re: [h-cost] Finished Empire Gown

[Ann Catelli]

I had, alas, already added the nine inches; I pinned up a 4.5" hem, put on the 
dress, and pinned up as much again.  Fortunately, it was just a slightly 
pleated rectangle, and easy to shorten as much as necessary.

The generous scissors, guided by, "oh, make sure to allow for seams and hems 
and a bit (large) 'just in case'." ;p

Ann in CT

--- On Tue, 9/16/08, Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Resizing is challenging. You must be quite tall to have to
> add 9 inches to the hem.
> 
> Marjorie


  
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Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egypt perfume/wax cones on head?

[monica spence]

It is called a scent cone. It is seen all over Egyptian art. It was wax with
a scent. It did melt, giving off a pleasant smell. (Kind of an Airwick solid
on your head.)
Monica
Fashion History teacher
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Hanna Zickermann
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 3:37 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egypt perfume/wax cones on head?


Hi,

maybe there´s something in "The artifice of
beauty" by Sally Pointer? I didn´t have the
chance to read it yet, but at first glance it looked most promising.

Hanna


At 20:00 16.09.2008, you wrote:
>Hi H-Cost!
>
>In grade school, I was told that pictures like
>this
>http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/womena6.jpg
>showed ancient Egyptian women with perfumed wax
>or fat on their heads, which melted over the
>course of the evening, and smelled good.
>
>It recently came to mind again, and I've tried
>to find citations for this, but all I can find
>is people repeating it without providing any
>other details.  I thirst for a source!  A good source!
>
>Really, it does seem ridiculous.  Not just the
>basic idea, but the consequences.  First, you
>get melted wax or fat in your wig.  This is
>probably difficult to clean out (although I
>suppose you could just hand it to the servants
>and not worry about it.)  Next, the wax or oil
>or fat gets all over your skin.  This is a hot
>country and being covered in oozing wax is
>probably unpleasant, even if it smells nice.  It
>makes it hard to stay cool.  Thirdly, all those
>diaphanous pleated gowns would soon look like
>the tail end of a wet T-shirt contest, which I
>could understand being somewhat interesting for
>half the population, but seems unlikely to be a popular fashion statement.
>
>But I could be totally off-base.  Without any
>kind of authority that I can find, though, I am frustrated.
>
>Any leads or suggestions?
>
>cv
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Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egypt perfume/wax cones on head?

[Cynthia Virtue]

monica spence wrote:

It is called a scent cone. It is seen all over Egyptian art. It was wax with
a scent. It did melt, giving off a pleasant smell. (Kind of an Airwick solid
on your head.)
Monica
Fashion History teacher
Right -- that's what all the web sources and various books seem to say, 
but they don't say *why* we think it was wax and scented.  What I am 
hoping for is something from an archaeologist, or a translation of a 
contemporary text which talks about what the women are wearing on their 
heads.


Without something solid like that, it could be just a myth invented by 
the Victorians, like chastity belts on everyone in the middle ages, 
shoes chained to knees and belts, and so on.


cv
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Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egypt perfume/wax cones on head?

[Ruth FW]

 I don't think you'll find anything to confirm that it's a wax cone; while
I've read that too, I've also read discussions in KMT, "A Modern Journal of
Ancient Egypt" (which tends to take a mixed scholarly/popular approach; the
articles are all footnoted) noting that the idea of what the cones is simply
speculation and has never been proven (by, say, an explicit description of
people wearing them, actual stores of the cones, or even a wig with scented
wax on it).

I can't provide a citation, though I suppose that providing a citation
stating "we don't know exactly what these are" isn't terribly useful.

Sorry,
Ruth

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:01 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] Ancient Egypt perfume/wax cones on head?

Hi H-Cost!

In grade school, I was told that pictures like this
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/womena6.jpg showed ancient Egyptian
women with perfumed wax or fat on their heads, which melted over the course
of the evening, and smelled good.

It recently came to mind again, and I've tried to find citations for this,
but all I can find is people repeating it without providing any other
details.  I thirst for a source!  A good source!

Really, it does seem ridiculous.  Not just the basic idea, but the
consequences.  First, you get melted wax or fat in your wig.  This is
probably difficult to clean out (although I suppose you could just hand it
to the servants and not worry about it.)  Next, the wax or oil or fat gets
all over your skin.  This is a hot country and being covered in oozing wax
is probably unpleasant, even if it smells nice.  It makes it hard to stay
cool.  Thirdly, all those diaphanous pleated gowns would soon look like the
tail end of a wet T-shirt contest, which I could understand being somewhat
interesting for half the population, but seems unlikely to be a popular
fashion statement.

But I could be totally off-base.  Without any kind of authority that I can
find, though, I am frustrated.

Any leads or suggestions?

cv
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