[h-cost] Pros Cons of Gores in Corsets
Sharon, I personally Believe that there is no wrong question, but I can't vouch for everyone. I too am interested in what everyone's opinions and theories are regarding gores in corsets. I believe someone already mentioned that gores went out of fashion when things became industrialized due to the fact it was more time consuming. While a lot can be done with the seam lines of a non-gored corset, I see major advantages if the corset is made for a large busted or large hipped woman. The amount of flare that would need to be added can quickly become too large to provide the same level of support. Plus, if you use a gore, you have less fabric waste in lying out the pattern. I'm sure there are other reasons, other theories, and probably some facts that haven't been brought up yet. So what are you views on this topic? Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS Sent from my iPhone On Mar 24, 2011, at 15:10, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: I'm showing my ignorance here, but I want to learn so... Why use gores at all? Why not just incorporate that extra bit into the main panel of the corset, as an extra flared bit on the end? Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of albert...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:37 AM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions I am specifically hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust gores. One of my fave corset patterns of all time is Past Pattern's # 708 1845 -1860. http://www.pastpatterns.com/708.html I find it works for 1820's to early 1870's The pattern is lightly boned but I have added bones between the bones on the pattern and one could add more. The shape is divine! After the late 1860's, early 1870's you'll need another more rigid shape. A pattern like Past Pattern's #213. http://www.pastpatterns.com/213.html These should do until you come to the straight front corset of the early 1900's. This is where Past Patterns and I part ways. DO NOT GET their pattern #106 http://www.pastpatterns.com/106.html It is NOT what is illustrated on the front and the patter requires so much tweaking that you might as well start from scratch. Hate it! - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
I have found the gores to be very useful fitting the bust and hip areas of a corset, when the waist size and length are correct, but the bust and hip areas need more space. The great thing about them is, they can be easily adjusted for cup size on the bust, and for the hip ones, they can be wider or narrower, while leaving the waist size where it should be. They are not difficult, they just take more time to sew in correctly, but then, corsets are very labor-intensive and require very accurate sewing. I have had some fun with gores by using either a contrasting fabric, or adding lace overlays to them, etc. Yours in cosutming, Lis aA On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:10:49 -0700 Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com writes: I'm showing my ignorance here, but I want to learn so... Why use gores at all? Why not just incorporate that extra bit into the main panel of the corset, as an extra flared bit on the end? Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pros Cons of Gores in Corsets
Period accuracy considerations aside for the moment, gores will give you more control over the grain of the additional fabric. Adding more and more flare to the side of a panel does result in a lot of bias, which may not be a bad thing. But gores let you decide, to a greater extent, how much bias you want or can accept. Not ground-shaking information, but a basic part of life with fabric. And really, even in a corset with gores, the panels are not perfect rectangles. There is some shape built in, just not necessarily enough for the intended wearer. Most 'gored' corsets are probably a bit of a combination of some flare on a panel and gores for more flare. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of michaeljdeib...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 3:17 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Pros Cons of Gores in Corsets Sharon, I personally Believe that there is no wrong question, but I can't vouch for everyone. I too am interested in what everyone's opinions and theories are regarding gores in corsets. I believe someone already mentioned that gores went out of fashion when things became industrialized due to the fact it was more time consuming. While a lot can be done with the seam lines of a non-gored corset, I see major advantages if the corset is made for a large busted or large hipped woman. The amount of flare that would need to be added can quickly become too large to provide the same level of support. Plus, if you use a gore, you have less fabric waste in lying out the pattern. I'm sure there are other reasons, other theories, and probably some facts that haven't been brought up yet. So what are you views on this topic? Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS Sent from my iPhone On Mar 24, 2011, at 15:10, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: I'm showing my ignorance here, but I want to learn so... Why use gores at all? Why not just incorporate that extra bit into the main panel of the corset, as an extra flared bit on the end? Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of albert...@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:37 AM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions I am specifically hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust gores. One of my fave corset patterns of all time is Past Pattern's # 708 1845 -1860. http://www.pastpatterns.com/708.html I find it works for 1820's to early 1870's The pattern is lightly boned but I have added bones between the bones on the pattern and one could add more. The shape is divine! After the late 1860's, early 1870's you'll need another more rigid shape. A pattern like Past Pattern's #213. http://www.pastpatterns.com/213.html These should do until you come to the straight front corset of the early 1900's. This is where Past Patterns and I part ways. DO NOT GET their pattern #106 http://www.pastpatterns.com/106.html It is NOT what is illustrated on the front and the patter requires so much tweaking that you might as well start from scratch. Hate it! - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway. *** The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
there were many corset patterns that used gores - yet many of the current commercial patterns focus on those without. Is there a reason for this that anyone might be aware of? ** Gores come in when the conical 18th century corset started to morph into the curvy 19th century look. If one cuts a slit in the bust area of a conical corset, the slits will spread open to form cups for the breast. Fill those spread apart slits with fabric and you have gussets. Same with hips as the corset grows longer. Around the 1850's, the French corset becomes popular. That is one with shaped pieces rather than added gussets. It persists and becomes the norm because it can be manipulated easier than gores. It is easier to change the shape and to fit and alter. It takes less time to manufacture in an assembly line way. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. Perhaps it's just a simple confusion or misunderstanding? And perhaps both could be right. But until we have references to either or both if that be the case, I'd like to avoid being the start of an arguement on here! Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:50 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote: The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway. *** The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian. _ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
Perhaps the term spoon busk is the source of the confusion. But a spoon busk is this: http://store.corsetmaking.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODProduct_Code=B-GSBSP12Category_Code=BProduct_Count=28 I you look in your Corsets and Crinolines you will not find one before the 1870's... or after the 1890s. Totally Victorian artifact. The wooden busks you see in the 18th and early 19th centuries are not spoon busks. -Original Message- From: Michael Deibert michaeljdeib...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 1:04 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. Perhaps it's just a simple confusion or misunderstanding? And perhaps both could be right. But until we have references to either or both if that be the case, I'd like to avoid being the start of an arguement on here! Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:50 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote: The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway. *** The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian. _ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
I forgot to add: I have never seen a spoon busk that wasn't a split busk. I have never seen an 18th century busk that WAS a split busk. -Original Message- From: albert...@aol.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 1:31 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions Perhaps the term spoon busk is the source of the confusion. But a spoon busk is this: http://store.corsetmaking.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODProduct_Code=B-GSBSP12Category_Code=BProduct_Count=28 I you look in your Corsets and Crinolines you will not find one before the 1870's... or after the 1890s. Totally Victorian artifact. The wooden busks you see in the 18th and early 19th centuries are not spoon busks. -Original Message- From: Michael Deibert michaeljdeib...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 1:04 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. Perhaps it's just a simple confusion or misunderstanding? And perhaps both could be right. But until we have references to either or both if that be the case, I'd like to avoid being the start of an arguement on here! Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:50 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote: The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway. *** The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian. _ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
On 3/25/2011 10:04 AM, Michael Deibert wrote: I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. I agree that research in books and other publications is where you should start. Here are three different bibliographies: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Corset/Bibliography/Old_English http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Corset/Bibliography/English http://www.calectasia.com/Bibliography.php and a long set of corset links: http://costumes.org/history/100pages/corsetlinks.htm You can find more with a net search. These are just the first few I brought up in a casual search. Fran Lavolta Press Books of historic clothing patterns www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
Fran I was actually referencing to the issue of when spoon busks were in style - but those links are still great! I was unaware of the first three! While there can be many good links through The Costumer's Manifesto, there are also some not so great ones, in addition to stores. It just takes longer to sort though sometimes. Michael OAS AAS LLS On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.comwrote: On 3/25/2011 10:04 AM, Michael Deibert wrote: I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. I agree that research in books and other publications is where you should start. Here are three different bibliographies: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Corset/Bibliography/Old_English http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Corset/Bibliography/English http://www.calectasia.com/Bibliography.php and a long set of corset links: http://costumes.org/history/100pages/corsetlinks.htm You can find more with a net search. These are just the first few I brought up in a casual search. Fran Lavolta Press Books of historic clothing patterns www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Costuming for Charity: Haiti Community Center
My apology if this is not an appropriate message for this list. I believe that a number of members of this group are familiar with Catherine Hay of ‘Your Wardrobe Unlock’d’ and ‘Foundations Revealed’. A few years back she decided to make a reproduction of the Worth “Oak Leaf” gown and turned up wearing it at the CoCo Gala in 2009. Catherine blogged as she was working out the construction, trimming, etc; with the results available on the web here: http://harmanhay.livejournal.com/tag/oak%20leaf%20dress As of now she is at it again. This time she plans to reproduce the Peacock Dress, from the foundations out. http://pics.livejournal.com/hsifeng/pic/0003ek5r/ As a charity fundraiser. “How does that work?” The details are here: http://harmanhay.livejournal.com/562622.html Needless to say, this is a MONUMENTAL undertaking; and one that I am personally looking forward to watching via the dress diary. Anyone who donates to the project in Haiti via Catherine's Crowdrise page will get access to view the ongoing work. http://www.crowdrise.com/hopetohaiti1/fundraiser/CathyHay I hope you will join me. :) ~Cherylyn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
1880s-style spoon busk: http://store.corsetmaking.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYStore_Code=CMSCategory_Code=SB1AFFIL=CM nayy I never heard of any other style busk being called a spoon busk, but could have missed such a thing. Ann in CT --- On Thu, 3/24/11, R Lloyd Mitchell rmitch...@staff.washjeff.edu wrote: The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway.? Kathleen, who has been there already ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
