Re: [h-cost] Hallowe'en - Alice in Wonderland
I sew costumes, if she's interested in having one made for her. I have pictures of other costumes I've made. I was a technical theatre major in college (which included costuming) and have worked with local community theatres for years; also Dickens and Renaissance fairs. Sharon Collier -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Suzanne Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 7:11 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Hallowe'en - Alice in Wonderland I don't usually purchase costumes. . . but my daughter [who's in college, and in a different time zone] has asked for help with a traditional Disney Alice in Wonderland blue dress with white pinafore. She's looked in the standard costume shops that pop up at this time of year and says the dresses are all too short. She's looked on e-bay and it seems that everyone is selling the same custom design that comes from China and takes 6 weeks for delivery. Does anyone know of a costume shop in New York City that has real costumes instead of stuff-to-get-drunk-in? Thanks for any suggestions! Suzanne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
I'm curious--does anyone know the answer to this question? Do the artists who draw the covers of romance novels just come up with a costume out of their head, or do they pose the models in a costume from a costume warehouse or something? Some novels' covers look almost like photos; the costumes are horrible, but very detailed. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Dunham Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray. THEN I looked them up online and the covers -- argh! Obviously art-directed at the bodice ripper set! The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire wench in green, @ http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_2. And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but not anywhere near right, @ http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Eleanor-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425234509. Recent re-issue of Great Maria is even afflicted with this... although the cover looks like a renaissance angel, THAT is not appropriate for Maria! http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maria-Cecelia-Holland/dp/B005CDUUD2/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_3 The original Great Maria cover, http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maria-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0394485092/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_5 I now know isn't period for the story either, but at least looks period to SOME time! Funny how the original covers from the central-male-character, 1960-70-80 2000s titles are all very reasonable. chimene (a huge CH fan, for decades!!!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pink?
Pictures, please! -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bambi TBNL Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:14 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pink? Oh..WOW!!! Ok so now i so gotta do this if there is tome. And Ive got one week to squeeze it in!. I have pink Minnlot of it. I can get my hand on some green and the piece de resistance... About 4ft by 3 ft of rose colored pinked leather. Double and green Italian slop plus a mosque w flower petals... A pinked pink?.just wondering. Message- Date: Sunday, September 25, 2011 11:16:21 pm To: h-cost...@indra.com From: albert...@aol.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pink? From a layman's perspective, it is interesting to find out that a pink is a type of carnation. sweet williams are pinks too, I believe. Let's see Wikipedia says: Dianthus is a genus of about 300 species of flowering plants in the family Caryophyllaceae, native mainly to Europe and Asia, with a few species extending south to north Africa, and one species (D. repens) in arctic North America. Common names include carnation (D. caryophyllus), pink (D. plumarius and related species) and sweet William (D. barbatus). The name Dianthus is from the Greek words dios(god) and anthos (flower), and was cited by the Greek botanist Theophrastus. also The color pink may be named after the flower, coming from the frilled edge of the flowers: the verb pink dates from the 14th century and means to decorate with a perforated or punched pattern (maybe from German pinken = to peck). Source: Collins Dictionary. This verb sense is also used in the name of pinking shears. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
A fair number of costumes you see on the covers of books can very well come direct from movie stills. They photoshop them to change colors and minor details. Otherwise the dresses can be put onto models and photographed to use for the cover shot. Recycledmoviecostumes.com has lots of pictures of dresses that have been reused for book covers. Maggie H. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Sender: h-costume-boun...@indra.com Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 23:27:01 To: 'Historical Costume'h-cost...@indra.com Reply-To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh I'm curious--does anyone know the answer to this question? Do the artists who draw the covers of romance novels just come up with a costume out of their head, or do they pose the models in a costume from a costume warehouse or something? Some novels' covers look almost like photos; the costumes are horrible, but very detailed. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Dunham Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray. THEN I looked them up online and the covers -- argh! Obviously art-directed at the bodice ripper set! The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire wench in green, @ http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_2. And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but not anywhere near right, @ http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Eleanor-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425234509. Recent re-issue of Great Maria is even afflicted with this... although the cover looks like a renaissance angel, THAT is not appropriate for Maria! http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maria-Cecelia-Holland/dp/B005CDUUD2/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_3 The original Great Maria cover, http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maria-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0394485092/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_5 I now know isn't period for the story either, but at least looks period to SOME time! Funny how the original covers from the central-male-character, 1960-70-80 2000s titles are all very reasonable. chimene (a huge CH fan, for decades!!!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re:Pink?
It's my understanding that the flower was named after the fabric treatment (because of its petals' jagged edges), and the colour after the flower. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. The policy is available here: http://www.derby.ac.uk/LIS/Email-Policy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] (h-cost) Re: costume on book covers, argh
I had two historical romances published back in the 70s (when it was comparatively easy to find a market). The first had a lovely cover illustration which portrayed the lead characters just as I imagined them (whether by accident or design, I don't know). The second had a horrible cover, in which the male figure had apparently been copied from a magazine photo of a reenactor and didn't even have the right hair colour. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. The policy is available here: http://www.derby.ac.uk/LIS/Email-Policy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hallowe'en - Alice in Wonderland
Suzanne, The sad thing is that the Halloween shops all buy from the same distributors. A couple of years ago I went to the Halloween convention in Vegas...I am still seeing those same costumes in the marketplace. Last week on the TV show Whitney, her nurse sexy costume was shown in the new costumes fashion show.OTOH, the TV show is going to show her wearing a lot of these type costumes...so the sexy costume businesses should be selling a lot this year. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Chickahominy American Indian Powwow
Yesterday I went to the powwow in our area. I put a few of my photos on my Facebook page (look in my email signature for the link). There are two really nice photos of a newborn baby in the arms of his grandfather and father dancing with the baby. I hope you enjoy the photos that are on Facebook. I am sorry for not getting the photos on my website quickly.I have hundreds of photos of the event. I had shoulder surgery a month ago and my computer time is limited to one hour at a time here and there. For once in my life, I am going to behave and do what the doctor said. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery Websites http://www.costumegallery.com/ www.costumegallery.com 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
Often times the costume is orderd in a certain artist model size, color optional. Who designs it is between the writer , the artist and the publisher, the costumes ia not seen as a designer/historian but as the seamstress who almost never has any more info than an artist sketch which they expect precise compliance with. The suggestion tha alteration in this might provide something more *..historically accurate, pleasing, tasteful, is at best met with we are not flexible on this matter and at worst with the business being conducted elsewhere , ( where their order is filled no questions asked, -Original Message- Date: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:27:20 am To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh I'm curious--does anyone know the answer to this question? Do the artists who draw the covers of romance novels just come up with a costume out of their head, or do they pose the models in a costume from a costume warehouse or something? Some novels' covers look almost like photos; the costumes are horrible, but very detailed. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Dunham Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray. THEN I looked them up online and the covers -- argh! Obviously art-directed at the bodice ripper set! The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire wench in green, @ http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_2. And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
About 20 years ago a friend who is a historical artist, borrowed several of my period gowns and had his gorgeous wife, my friend, pose in them in bodice ripper poses. His goal was to start doing historically accurate bodice ripper covers. I don't know if anything came of it. I should ask his wife. Katy On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 2:27 AM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: I'm curious--does anyone know the answer to this question? Do the artists who draw the covers of romance novels just come up with a costume out of their head, or do they pose the models in a costume from a costume warehouse or something? Some novels' covers look almost like photos; the costumes are horrible, but very detailed. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Dunham Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray. THEN I looked them up online and the covers -- argh! Obviously art-directed at the bodice ripper set! The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire wench in green, @ http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_2. And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but not anywhere near right, @ http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Eleanor-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425234509. Recent re-issue of Great Maria is even afflicted with this... although the cover looks like a renaissance angel, THAT is not appropriate for Maria! http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maria-Cecelia-Holland/dp/B005CDUUD2/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_3 The original Great Maria cover, http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maria-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0394485092/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_5 I now know isn't period for the story either, but at least looks period to SOME time! Funny how the original covers from the central-male-character, 1960-70-80 2000s titles are all very reasonable. chimene (a huge CH fan, for decades!!!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian katybisho...@gmail.com www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
Sometimes covers are even reused. Sometimes a certain model is popular (aka: Fabio). Romance novel covers go through phases. Right now there is a trend for headless women (what does THAT say?). Other covers feature a shirtless man-- with or without tattoos. The frustrating thing for an author is the cover. She tell the publisher how she envisions a cover, and gets the exact opposite. My friend got a contract for a book and sent exact ideas (man: James bond type, in a good suit and tie). What she got was a skinny, shirtless, guy with a medallion around his neck. Let's say she was not happy. My personal frustration with novels of historical fiction is when the publishers take a piece of real art work from a period, and use it for the another, completely wrong period. Monica Spence -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bambi TBNL Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:51 AM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Often times the costume is orderd in a certain artist model size, color optional. Who designs it is between the writer , the artist and the publisher, the costumes ia not seen as a designer/historian but as the seamstress who almost never has any more info than an artist sketch which they expect precise compliance with. The suggestion tha alteration in this might provide something more *..historically accurate, pleasing, tasteful, is at best met with we are not flexible on this matter and at worst with the business being conducted elsewhere , ( where their order is filled no questions asked, -Original Message- Date: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:27:20 am To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh I'm curious--does anyone know the answer to this question? Do the artists who draw the covers of romance novels just come up with a costume out of their head, or do they pose the models in a costume from a costume warehouse or something? Some novels' covers look almost like photos; the costumes are horrible, but very detailed. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Dunham Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray. THEN I looked them up online and the covers -- argh! Obviously art-directed at the bodice ripper set! The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire wench in green, @ http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_2. And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hallowe'en - Alice in Wonderland
I also make costumes. I am in Amarillo. I sew for a costume shop in Syracuse, ny. And sell mascot heads on eBay when I can. Sent from my iPad Becky Rautine On Sep 24, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Suzanne sovag...@cybermesa.com wrote: I don't usually purchase costumes. . . but my daughter [who's in college, and in a different time zone] has asked for help with a traditional Disney Alice in Wonderland blue dress with white pinafore. She's looked in the standard costume shops that pop up at this time of year and says the dresses are all too short. She's looked on e-bay and it seems that everyone is selling the same custom design that comes from China and takes 6 weeks for delivery. Does anyone know of a costume shop in New York City that has real costumes instead of stuff-to-get-drunk-in? Thanks for any suggestions! Suzanne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hallowe'en - Alice in Wonderland
When I read the original post, I thought it sounded like something that would have to be made to order. Sounds like you have a couple of alternatives to choose from, and enough lead time to have it done. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Becky Rautine zearti...@hotmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 9:34 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hallowe'en - Alice in Wonderland I also make costumes. I am in Amarillo. I sew for a costume shop in Syracuse, y. And sell mascot heads on eBay when I can. Sent from my iPad Becky Rautine On Sep 24, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Suzanne sovag...@cybermesa.com wrote: I don't usually purchase costumes. . . but my daughter [who's in college, and n a different time zone] has asked for help with a traditional Disney Alice in onderland blue dress with white pinafore. She's looked in the standard ostume shops that pop up at this time of year and says the dresses are all too hort. She's looked on e-bay and it seems that everyone is selling the same custom design that comes from China and takes 6 weeks for delivery. Does anyone know of a costume shop in New York City that has real costumes nstead of stuff-to-get-drunk-in? Thanks for any suggestions! Suzanne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
One reason for the frustrating mis-matches between story details and cover in the mass market genre fiction industry is that cover art is much more about conveying brand and sub-genre information than intended to be illustration. The idea is to build a (somewhat arbitrary) symbolic vocabulary that answers the buyers questions of: What general setting does this story have? What general plot will it have? In the case of romance, what level of sexual content will it have? And sometimes down to the level of: what specific writing style can I expect. The cover is intended to stop the eye of a casual bookstore browser and communicate to them This book is going to be similar to those other books you liked that had covers with the same 'vocabulary' elements. Consider: the average romance buyer isn't looking for a cover that says something like 1480s Burgundy, lower nobility but a cover that says something like middle ages, no time-travel or supernatural elements, passionate courtship but probably little explicit sex. Heather Rose Jones ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
What is bodice ripper poses? Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 07:53:04 -0400 From: katybisho...@gmail.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh About 20 years ago a friend who is a historical artist, borrowed several of my period gowns and had his gorgeous wife, my friend, pose in them in bodice ripper poses. His goal was to start doing historically accurate bodice ripper covers. I don't know if anything came of it. I should ask his wife. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
My personal frustration with novels of historical fiction is when the publishers take a piece of real art work from a period, and use it for the another, completely wrong period. This happened to some extent with the recent reissue of Georgette Heyer's Georgian and Regency novels. The publishers used actual paintings for the covers, and some of them were fine, but others had a Georgian gentleman in a powdered wig on the cover of a Regency-set book, or a lady in an Empire dress on a book set a couple of decades earlier. One of my pet peeves is when a mass-market Regency romance cover includes children - the adults' costumes are usually at least passable, but the little girls tend to be dressed in party frocks and Mary Janes. Emily On 9/26/2011 7:36 AM, Monica Spence wrote: Sometimes covers are even reused. Sometimes a certain model is popular (aka: Fabio). Romance novel covers go through phases. Right now there is a trend for headless women (what does THAT say?). Other covers feature a shirtless man-- with or without tattoos. The frustrating thing for an author is the cover. She tell the publisher how she envisions a cover, and gets the exact opposite. My friend got a contract for a book and sent exact ideas (man: James bond type, in a good suit and tie). What she got was a skinny, shirtless, guy with a medallion around his neck. Let's say she was not happy. My personal frustration with novels of historical fiction is when the publishers take a piece of real art work from a period, and use it for the another, completely wrong period. Monica Spence -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bambi TBNL Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:51 AM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Often times the costume is orderd in a certain artist model size, color optional. Who designs it is between the writer , the artist and the publisher, the costumes ia not seen as a designer/historian but as the seamstress who almost never has any more info than an artist sketch which they expect precise compliance with. The suggestion tha alteration in this might provide something more *..historically accurate, pleasing, tasteful, is at best met with we are not flexible on this matter and at worst with the business being conducted elsewhere , ( where their order is filled no questions asked, -Original Message- Date: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:27:20 am To: 'Historical Costume'h-cost...@indra.com From: Sharon Colliersha...@collierfam.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh I'm curious--does anyone know the answer to this question? Do the artists who draw the covers of romance novels just come up with a costume out of their head, or do they pose the models in a costume from a costume warehouse or something? Some novels' covers look almost like photos; the costumes are horrible, but very detailed. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Dunham Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray. THEN I looked them up online and the covers -- argh! Obviously art-directed at the bodice ripper set! The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire wench in green, @ http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_2. And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
The usual poses of ladies as seen on the covers of bodice ripper novels. Katy On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Becky Rautine zearti...@hotmail.com wrote: What is bodice ripper poses? Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 07:53:04 -0400 From: katybisho...@gmail.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh About 20 years ago a friend who is a historical artist, borrowed several of my period gowns and had his gorgeous wife, my friend, pose in them in bodice ripper poses. His goal was to start doing historically accurate bodice ripper covers. I don't know if anything came of it. I should ask his wife. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian katybisho...@gmail.com www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Book Covers
Um, you guys know that bodice ripper is considered insulting by romance writers, right? Kind of like costume nazi among historical clothing researchers. And since I'm a published romance novelist (science fiction, so the clothes aren't a problem) and have been researching historical clothing for more than two decades, I feel qualified to make the comparison. As far as getting the dress correct on book covers, in 1993 Christina Dodd became infamous because of a cover that went to press with the heroine having THREE ARMS. If Avon, the leading US publisher of historical romances, couldn't get the number of limbs correct with all their editors and a full art department, do you really think they even care if the dress details are correct? For the record, the dress sucked; 14th century kirtle with bell sleeves gathered at her left wrist in a ruffle--yes, a ruffle--at one right wrist without a ruffle, and no cuff, gathering band, ruffle, or sleeve visible at all at the other right wrist. The hero is wearing a Templar tunic, or it might be a white tunic with a red Maltese cross on it (cue eyelid twitch). Of course, that book is a collector's item now and resells for hundreds of dollars, but still, they failed at counting to two. Got seams in the wrong place...visible zipper lines...wrong kind of lacing for the period...neckline that defies physics? Well, yes. Does she have two arms? Hey, it's all good. Valerie Robertson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
I read a book, about the early life of Elizabeth I. The front cover was a portrait of Princess Elizabeth, daughter of James I, dated approximately 1612. It wouldn't matter to someone who didn't know clothing styles, but to me, it was confusing. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Monica Spence Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 5:37 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Sometimes covers are even reused. Sometimes a certain model is popular (aka: Fabio). Romance novel covers go through phases. Right now there is a trend for headless women (what does THAT say?). Other covers feature a shirtless man-- with or without tattoos. The frustrating thing for an author is the cover. She tell the publisher how she envisions a cover, and gets the exact opposite. My friend got a contract for a book and sent exact ideas (man: James bond type, in a good suit and tie). What she got was a skinny, shirtless, guy with a medallion around his neck. Let's say she was not happy. My personal frustration with novels of historical fiction is when the publishers take a piece of real art work from a period, and use it for the another, completely wrong period. Monica Spence -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Bambi TBNL Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:51 AM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Often times the costume is orderd in a certain artist model size, color optional. Who designs it is between the writer , the artist and the publisher, the costumes ia not seen as a designer/historian but as the seamstress who almost never has any more info than an artist sketch which they expect precise compliance with. The suggestion tha alteration in this might provide something more *..historically accurate, pleasing, tasteful, is at best met with we are not flexible on this matter and at worst with the business being conducted elsewhere , ( where their order is filled no questions asked, -Original Message- Date: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:27:20 am To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh I'm curious--does anyone know the answer to this question? Do the artists who draw the covers of romance novels just come up with a costume out of their head, or do they pose the models in a costume from a costume warehouse or something? Some novels' covers look almost like photos; the costumes are horrible, but very detailed. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Patricia Dunham Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:13 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray. THEN I looked them up online and the covers -- argh! Obviously art-directed at the bodice ripper set! The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire wench in green, @ http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_e p_dpt_2. And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
But why can't they at least get the hair color correct? When I read a book with a red-haired heroine, I expect the cover to have a red-haired woman on it. Otherwise, when I start to read, I am constantly on the lookout for the characters who look like the cover, thinking they will be the main characters. It's disconcerting. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh One reason for the frustrating mis-matches between story details and cover in the mass market genre fiction industry is that cover art is much more about conveying brand and sub-genre information than intended to be illustration. The idea is to build a (somewhat arbitrary) symbolic vocabulary that answers the buyers questions of: What general setting does this story have? What general plot will it have? In the case of romance, what level of sexual content will it have? And sometimes down to the level of: what specific writing style can I expect. The cover is intended to stop the eye of a casual bookstore browser and communicate to them This book is going to be similar to those other books you liked that had covers with the same 'vocabulary' elements. Consider: the average romance buyer isn't looking for a cover that says something like 1480s Burgundy, lower nobility but a cover that says something like middle ages, no time-travel or supernatural elements, passionate courtship but probably little explicit sex. Heather Rose Jones ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Book Covers
I, too, write romances, and I've been fighting the bodice ripper label for years. To me, bad book covers are on the same level as poorly done historical costumes or bad SCA garb. ( I teach Costume History on the college level and my husband and I are in the SCA, so I know from whence I speak.) There is a silver lining in bad book covers. That cover with the three limbs allowed Christina Dodd cover approval for her novels. Likewise, my friend Kristan Higgins got cover control when the artist put the wrong breed of dog on her book cover. Of course, it helps if you are a bestselling New York Times author. Other authors I know must rely on the generosity of the cover gods. :-) Some have really been blessed. Monica Spence -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Valerie Robertson Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:39 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Book Covers Um, you guys know that bodice ripper is considered insulting by romance writers, right? Kind of like costume nazi among historical clothing researchers. And since I'm a published romance novelist (science fiction, so the clothes aren't a problem) and have been researching historical clothing for more than two decades, I feel qualified to make the comparison. As far as getting the dress correct on book covers, in 1993 Christina Dodd became infamous because of a cover that went to press with the heroine having THREE ARMS. If Avon, the leading US publisher of historical romances, couldn't get the number of limbs correct with all their editors and a full art department, do you really think they even care if the dress details are correct? For the record, the dress sucked; 14th century kirtle with bell sleeves gathered at her left wrist in a ruffle--yes, a ruffle--at one right wrist without a ruffle, and no cuff, gathering band, ruffle, or sleeve visible at all at the other right wrist. The hero is wearing a Templar tunic, or it might be a white tunic with a red Maltese cross on it (cue eyelid twitch). Of course, that book is a collector's item now and resells for hundreds of dollars, but still, they failed at counting to two. Got seams in the wrong place...visible zipper lines...wrong kind of lacing for the period...neckline that defies physics? Well, yes. Does she have two arms? Hey, it's all good. Valerie Robertson ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh
about the early life of Elizabeth I. Slightly OT, but reminds me of the magazine ad a few years ago for Queen Anne cordial cherries, that showed Queen Elizabeth I. I wrote the company, and got the response that I was really sharp-eyed. Well, duh, a woman with curly red hair and dripping pearls--I ask you! Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 4:55 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh I read a book, about the early life of Elizabeth I. The front cover was a ortrait of Princess Elizabeth, daughter of James I, dated approximately 612. It wouldn't matter to someone who didn't know clothing styles, but to e, it was confusing. haron C. -Original Message- rom: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On ehalf Of Monica Spence ent: Monday, September 26, 2011 5:37 AM o: 'Historical Costume' ubject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh ometimes covers are even reused. Sometimes a certain model is popular (aka: abio). Romance novel covers go through phases. Right now there is a trend or headless women (what does THAT say?). Other covers feature a shirtless an-- with or without tattoos. The frustrating thing for an author is the cover. She tell the publisher how he envisions a cover, and gets the exact opposite. My friend got a ontract for a book and sent exact ideas (man: James bond type, in a good uit and tie). What she got was a skinny, shirtless, guy with a medallion round his neck. Let's say she was not happy. My personal frustration ith novels of historical fiction is when the publishers take a piece of eal art work from a period, and use it for the another, completely wrong eriod. Monica Spence -Original Message- rom: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On ehalf Of Bambi TBNL ent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:51 AM o: h-cost...@indra.com ubject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Often times the costume is orderd in a certain artist model size, color ptional. Who designs it is between the writer , the artist and the ublisher, the costumes ia not seen as a designer/historian but as the eamstress who almost never has any more info than an artist sketch which hey expect precise compliance with. The suggestion tha alteration in this ight provide something more *..historically accurate, pleasing, tasteful, s at best met with we are not flexible on this matter and at worst with he business being conducted elsewhere , ( where their order is filled no uestions asked, -Original Message- ate: Monday, September 26, 2011 2:27:20 am o: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com rom: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com ubject: Re: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh I'm curious--does anyone know the answer to this question? Do the artists ho draw the covers of romance novels just come up with a costume out of heir head, or do they pose the models in a costume from a costume warehouse r something? Some novels' covers look almost like photos; the costumes are orrible, but very detailed. haron C. -Original Message- rom: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On ehalf Of Patricia Dunham ent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:13 PM o: Historical Costume ubject: [h-cost] costume on book covers, argh Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray. THEN I ooked them up online and the covers -- argh! Obviously art-directed at the odice ripper set! The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire ench in green, @ ttp://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_e _dpt_2. And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but ___ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
