Re: [h-cost] bifurcated garments
I'm starting to wonder if our ancestors found the idea of women in pants as shocking as we think they did. I keep finding examples of women wearing them in the 19th century. The bloomer costume as reform dress, the bathing costumes, women in camping and hiking situations, women on the westward trek, female mine workers in Wales and other parts of Europe, utopian societies, fishwives in England and female acrobatic performers. I have a feeling the more people dig the more we will find out that there were just certain situations where no one found it out of place to see a woman in pants. I will grant you that in none of these cases are the women putting on a pair of men's pants. They are wearing pants with a unique style and construction. Maggie Koenig Sent from my iPhone On Mar 21, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com wrote: I was astounded to learn that my very proper great-great grandmother and her daughters wore bifurcated garments on the Oregon Trail-- in 1852, very soon after Amelia Bloomer was named as their creator. One of the older daughters wrote about their experience and how the garments made walking the trail much easier than it would have been in skirts. The stuff of family legend. I suspect G-g-grandmother's prior pioneering experience influenced her to make a radical fashion choice for Oregon. In 1836 she and her husband had floated down the Allegheny on a raft; she mentions having to traipse around a portage through weeds and wet with wind, and how her skirts switched between her ankles, making walking almost impossible. G-g-grandmother was the wife of a preacher and Presbyterian missionary- I was amazed that such a character would make use of what was then rather a controversial garment. Perhaps she thought nobody she knew would see her! -- they and their large family had two wagons and did not join a train. == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= http://3toad.blogspot.com/ Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Bounces
Eliza, Would you please check into a problem for me. For the past two months when I send a message to h-costume or reply to a post, my email bounces. The bounce message states that my email address is marked as spam. I am receiving posts okay. Penny Ladnier From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants
Amelia Bloomer gets the credit, but she and her sister and other friends were not the first to make the bifurcated scene . There were several religious groups who tried a fashion reform as a peculiar identity for their sect as well as diversity clothing. Robert Owen with his group at New Harmony in Indiana was one of these. Also the Graham group wore bifurcated garments as a hygienic improvement. I am remembering that this was probably the origin that the Seneca ladies chose. Lucy Stone wore it for a while but when the costume was getting more attention than the message(Women's Rights), she felt bound to put it aside. From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell [rmitch...@washjeff.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:40 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants No one seems to have mentioned bifurcated garments...19th C. review and philosophy of women wearing male garments...including Bible Quotations...Lots of interesting examples there! From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rickard, Patty [ricka...@mountunion.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:30 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants I guess I should read all the posts before replying - fun memories. Patty -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Rickard, Patty Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants And let's not forget clam-diggers - similar to either capri pants or pedal-pushers, also from around the 1950s. Patty -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of aqua...@patriot.net Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:07 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants There was a short fad for knickers in the mid to late 1970s for women. Gauchos were another one, loose pants that ended below the knee - sort of like a split skirt. For both, you might wear them with a blouse and matching vest. Culottes were a skirt/shorts combo, just above the knee. They might have a wide leg or a separate panel for the skirt effect. Sporty, I remember my mom wearing them for golfing. Capri pants are high ankle or low calf length, and are currently fashionable, and were various times back as far as the 1950s. I think of Audrey Hepburn in them. Pedal pushers were long-ish shorts, I think just below the knee? But a regular pants width, not flared and not gathered. I remember them from the 1960s, but could be earlier. -Carol On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Sybella mae...@gmail.com wrote: In the '80s people called pants that ended just below the knee knickers. Assuming you mean 1980s: I recall Capri pants for women,not knickers. Before that, they were peddle pushers. And I think there's at least one other name for them. Knee highs, maybe? It seems every time they come back into fashion, they are called something else. Probably, pedal-pushers as that what my mom called the things they went bicycling in in the 1950s. Also, Knickers strikes me as something an early 20th c golfer or upperclass sport hunter (male) might wear. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] bifurcated garments
I have pictures (somewhere) of my great-grandmother working on the farm in pants. I also seem to remember that when my grandmother was very small and left out to herd the sheep, that she wore boy's clothes. I, of course, was more shocked to learn that an eight-year-old would be left alone all day with the sheep, the dog and a rifle. Carmen On 3/22/2013 1:37 AM, Maggie Koenig wrote: I'm starting to wonder if our ancestors found the idea of women in pants as shocking as we think they did. I keep finding examples of women wearing them in the 19th century. The bloomer costume as reform dress, the bathing costumes, women in camping and hiking situations, women on the westward trek, female mine workers in Wales and other parts of Europe, utopian societies, fishwives in England and female acrobatic performers. I have a feeling the more people dig the more we will find out that there were just certain situations where no one found it out of place to see a woman in pants. I will grant you that in none of these cases are the women putting on a pair of men's pants. They are wearing pants with a unique style and construction. Maggie Koenig Sent from my iPhone On Mar 21, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com wrote: I was astounded to learn that my very proper great-great grandmother and her daughters wore bifurcated garments on the Oregon Trail-- in 1852, very soon after Amelia Bloomer was named as their creator. One of the older daughters wrote about their experience and how the garments made walking the trail much easier than it would have been in skirts. The stuff of family legend. I suspect G-g-grandmother's prior pioneering experience influenced her to make a radical fashion choice for Oregon. In 1836 she and her husband had floated down the Allegheny on a raft; she mentions having to traipse around a portage through weeds and wet with wind, and how her skirts switched between her ankles, making walking almost impossible. G-g-grandmother was the wife of a preacher and Presbyterian missionary- I was amazed that such a character would make use of what was then rather a controversial garment. Perhaps she thought nobody she knew would see her! -- they and their large family had two wagons and did not join a train. == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= http://3toad.blogspot.com/ Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] One more about the Embellishments book
It's taken longer than I thought, but I just got word that my Kickstarter has been approved. So for those interested in checking it out, it's at http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1285190256/embellishments-constructing-victorian-detail At the very least it has nice images of some of the dresses! The Kickstarter has a variety of pledge levels which include a number of gifts; if you simply want to pre-order a book you can still go to www.schaefferarts.com/embellishments Many thanks! Astrida ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] bifurcated garments
I agree, Maggie, if my conservative proper ancestors wore'em so early. . . Perhaps the shocking aspect we hear so much about in fashion history texts was when *fashionable* women wore them! Perhaps little worn by the anonymous classes was considered shocking: only in the upper and wanna-be classes. == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= http://3toad.blogspot.com/ Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW On Mar 22, 2013, at 1:37 AM, Maggie Koenig wrote: I'm starting to wonder if our ancestors found the idea of women in pants as shocking as we think they did. I keep finding examples of women wearing them in the 19th century. The bloomer costume as reform dress, the bathing costumes, women in camping and hiking situations, women on the westward trek, female mine workers in Wales and other parts of Europe, utopian societies, fishwives in England and female acrobatic performers. I have a feeling the more people dig the more we will find out that there were just certain situations where no one found it out of place to see a woman in pants. I will grant you that in none of these cases are the women putting on a pair of men's pants. They are wearing pants with a unique style and construction. Maggie Koenig Sent from my iPhone On Mar 21, 2013, at 11:09 PM, Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com wrote: I was astounded to learn that my very proper great-great grandmother and her daughters wore bifurcated garments on the Oregon Trail-- in 1852, very soon after Amelia Bloomer was named as their creator. One of the older daughters wrote about their experience and how the garments made walking the trail much easier than it would have been in skirts. The stuff of family legend. I suspect G-g-grandmother's prior pioneering experience influenced her to make a radical fashion choice for Oregon. In 1836 she and her husband had floated down the Allegheny on a raft; she mentions having to traipse around a portage through weeds and wet with wind, and how her skirts switched between her ankles, making walking almost impossible. G-g-grandmother was the wife of a preacher and Presbyterian missionary- I was amazed that such a character would make use of what was then rather a controversial garment. Perhaps she thought nobody she knew would see her! -- they and their large family had two wagons and did not join a train. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants
Hello! Thank you, everyone! I am happily surprised with the amount of answers! It makes me afraid of asking What do you call that little nibby bit on the end of a shoe lace? Just kidding on that. Henry ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants
Aiglet... Katheryne (ducking and giggling) On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM, cc2010m...@cs.com wrote: Hello! Thank you, everyone! I am happily surprised with the amount of answers! It makes me afraid of asking What do you call that little nibby bit on the end of a shoe lace? Just kidding on that. Henry ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants
This time of year maybe we should say egglet? Ceit -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Purple Kat Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 2:48 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants Aiglet... Katheryne (ducking and giggling) On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM, cc2010m...@cs.com wrote: Hello! Thank you, everyone! I am happily surprised with the amount of answers! It makes me afraid of asking What do you call that little nibby bit on the end of a shoe lace? Just kidding on that. Henry ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants
oh n,,, not pun-ishment.. SIGH ,, I guess the yolks on me ... Katheryne On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Rickard, Patty ricka...@mountunion.edu wrote: This time of year maybe we should say egglet? Ceit -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Purple Kat Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 2:48 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Terms for pants Aiglet... Katheryne (ducking and giggling) On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM, cc2010m...@cs.com wrote: Hello! Thank you, everyone! I am happily surprised with the amount of answers! It makes me afraid of asking What do you call that little nibby bit on the end of a shoe lace? Just kidding on that. Henry ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
