Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic
I know everyone feels passionately about this topic. Whatever our individual feelings may be the truth is these days museums themselves are selling massive amounts of items on ebay and other places too I imagine. I have a particular interest in victorian corsets and in searching for extant examples I realized just how many "historic" items were being sold out of museum stock. The museums either can's store or maintain them themselves or just have too many. These things cost money to preserve and many museums are struggling. I'm not sure people are aware of how much stuff is literally rotting in museum stores where they can't afford the maintenance of said items. Every museum doesn't have acid free boxes and climate controlled rooms. That's but a dream for most smaller museums. Is it better rotting in a box in a museum basement or being repurposed somehow in the hands of someone who will use it. Whether that be for just making a new pattern or reusing the actual item. I think better to not let it rot away! Tanya ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
Whenever you make something you are transforming the materials into something else. As for what eras should be remodeled, durability is a key issue. This is affected not only by the age of the materials but the fiber, how thin/thick they are, how they were stored (for example with moth repellant or not, in the dark or not), how they were prepared for sale (for example soaked in chlorine bleach or not), and other factors. I have no idea how purist anyone wants to get about the age (and it's easy to dictate an age if you never do it anyway), but many of the things people are going to get really agitated about cutting up or wearing aren't durable enough to be worth the effort. And/or they are too expensive on today's market. Somethings you can't easily buy or even get the look of today, such as handmade lace. And handmade linen bobbin lace is often quite durable. Fran Lavolta Press Books on historic clothing www.lavoltapress.com On 3/30/2013 10:41 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote: Costumers ARE consumers! Somebody or something is going to be wearing the product, right? Even if it is made for display on a mannequin, that is consumption. And re-making something isn't destroying it. But I don't collect vintage or antiques clothing or textiles, either. I just admire others'. I'm strictly making period style things from modern materials. I have been known to buy 1950s and 1960s era things from thrift stores, though, and altering them to fit to wear for costume. So, how far do we go? 1950s? 1040s? 1920s? Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Marjorie Wilser To: Historical Costume Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 11:19 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press) And here I thought this list was for *costumers* and not consumers and destroyers. == Marjorie Wilser On Mar 30, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: But apparently you don't even collect antique textiles yourself. You are certainly welcome to do so, but are in no position to dictate to others regarding it. Rather than taking that dress in or out, why not check out the seam lines and see if you can recreate a pattern from it? Because I don't want to. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
On 3/30/2013 4:44 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote: Fran and I don't always see eye to eye. But I have to agree with her on this one. Sounds like these tunics/shifts, which started the discussion, exist in great numbers. Let us hope someone, somewhere, has saved a couple, along with their provenance (if they were indeed worn at institutions, or whatever). For the rest, well, we can't save EVERYTHING. If we did, we would be covered with mountains of stuff. I am intrigued by these because in 40 years, I have never seen anything like them (this sturdy) from American, UK, or Canadian dealers. French dealers seem to accept them as common and sometimes call them "rustic." Maybe, but then the French lower classes, rural or perhaps urban, were willing to sacrifice comfort for extreme durability more than the Americans or British. I have not seen any from other European countries, but then, the vast majority of dealers I see on English-speakingwebsites are naturally from English-speaking countries. They are all cut with the selvage across the hem of the bottom (except sometimes the side gores) and any sleeves (many are sleeveless) and there is no hem there, just the selvage. I also see men's shirts made from the same fabric, but I have not bought any. Fran Lavolta Press Books on historic clothing www.lavoltapress.com . ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
Costumers ARE consumers! Somebody or something is going to be wearing the product, right? Even if it is made for display on a mannequin, that is consumption. And re-making something isn't destroying it. But I don't collect vintage or antiques clothing or textiles, either. I just admire others'. I'm strictly making period style things from modern materials. I have been known to buy 1950s and 1960s era things from thrift stores, though, and altering them to fit to wear for costume. So, how far do we go? 1950s? 1040s? 1920s? Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Marjorie Wilser To: Historical Costume Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 11:19 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press) And here I thought this list was for *costumers* and not consumers and destroyers. == Marjorie Wilser On Mar 30, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: > > But apparently you don't even collect antique textiles yourself. You > are certainly welcome to do so, but are in no position to dictate to > others regarding it. > > > Rather than taking that dress in or out, why not check out the > seam lines and see if you can recreate a pattern from it? > > Because I don't want to. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
And here I thought this list was for *costumers* and not consumers and destroyers. == Marjorie Wilser On Mar 30, 2013, at 7:40 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: But apparently you don't even collect antique textiles yourself. You are certainly welcome to do so, but are in no position to dictate to others regarding it. > Rather than taking that dress in or out, why not check out the seam lines and see if you can recreate a pattern from it? Because I don't want to. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
Also, in the Victorian age, they loved doing exactly what you are doing - taking antique dresses and outfits > to wear to fancy balls. Do you have any idea how many we lost during that time period? How many not only > Rococo but Elizabethan outfits? Just because someone wanted to look pretty and was incapable of thinking > about the historic value of the item in their hands. And that is one of the things I love about the Victorian era. I love reading about people in the late 1870s and early 1880s remodeling men's 18th-century vests for dresses. >Not only are you doing this yourself, but encouraging others to do this as well - which is where my outrage is coming from. I've > seen plenty of people post something to ebay/etsy/pick your favorite online flea market that they had no idea what it was. By > encourage others to do what you do to create a t-tunic - beginners garb for most Medieval groups- you are encouraging people who have little knowledge on the subject of historical textiles to rip apart something that may be very valuable. Apparently, you don't have the slightest idea what is valuable on the vintage market and what is not. Perhaps you should do some research before you express outrage. > That supposed 19th C chemise may actually be 17th C. Since I have been studying and collecting textiles for over 40 years, I do know the difference. > You may not consider yourself a "custodian" of historical wears but we all are. But apparently you don't even collect antique textiles yourself. You are certainly welcome to do so, but are in no position to dictate to others regarding it. > Rather than taking that dress in or out, why not check out the seam lines and see if you can recreate a pattern from it? Because I don't want to. >As for the items being yours - well, the old house was your parents', right? I highly doubt they were allowed to do whatever they pleased with it. Of course they were allowed to do whatever they pleased with it. You are under a major misconception that every older house is under historic protection. There are a great many of them around and the vast majority are not. The only thing the owners have to conform to is local zoning relations and the building code. Everybody remodels and upgrades older homes all the time. Check your local real estate section for the ads for older homes and what the realtors say has been done to them. >I know you won't listen, Fran. I've been on this list long enough to know that. Well, naturally, I don't regulate my life by the advice of a perfect stranger who doesn't have a clue what she is talking about. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What to do with 18C/1840 quilted skirts
I'm starting into American Civil War, and would LOVE to know what the 're-model' looks like. Can you describe how the skirts are 'gathered' into the waistband? Katheryne Central NJ, USA On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 12:42 AM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden wrote: > I collect antique garments and bring them out for study and research > purposes and sometimes for displays. I have two hand-quilted skirts that > look like they were originally made in the 18th century but then > re-modelled in the 1840s. Both have had the waistbands replaced - and both > need to be regathered and sewn back onto the waistband. What would others > do here? > Many thanks, > Aylwen > > *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden* ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
Once more playing devil's advocate here. I know that, through the lens of hindsight, we are dismayed that people took 18th century gowns and altered them to wear in 1876, for example. But you know, this kind of re-use is what might have gotten them saved at all. Cleaning out the attic--who needs this old thing anymore? Oh, don't throw it out, it would be perfect for the centennial ball this summer! So don't judge too harshly. But I will add--we have a local vintage clothing dealer who has come to me with two dresses that she knows are worth saving. One is from the early 19th century--it has been mucked with some, but not too badly; and one is probably mid-19th century. She rescued them but won't sell them in her shop. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
On Mar 30, 2013, at 8:04 AM, . . wrote: Also, in the Victorian age, they loved doing exactly what you are doing - taking antique dresses and outfits to wear to fancy balls. Do you have any idea how many we lost during that time period? How many not only Rococo but Elizabethan outfits? Just because someone wanted to look pretty and was incapable of thinking about the historic value of the item in their hands. There was also a practice, I think it was called drizzling, where they would take old medieval fabrics or embroideries and pick out the metal, gold and silver, to melt down. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
Yes, families did change jewelry to the latest style back in the Victorian and Edwardian age -not so much anymore. Because now they understand the historical value of the gem in that setting if it's truly that old. Also, in the Victorian age, they loved doing exactly what you are doing - taking antique dresses and outfits to wear to fancy balls. Do you have any idea how many we lost during that time period? How many not only Rococo but Elizabethan outfits? Just because someone wanted to look pretty and was incapable of thinking about the historic value of the item in their hands. Not only are you doing this yourself, but encouraging others to do this as well - which is where my outrage is coming from. I've seen plenty of people post something to ebay/etsy/pick your favorite online flea market that they had no idea what it was. By encourage others to do what you do to create a t-tunic - beginners garb for most Medieval groups- you are encouraging people who have little knowledge on the subject of historical textiles to rip apart something that may be very valuable. That supposed 19th C chemise may actually be 17th C. It's irresponsible. You may not consider yourself a "custodian" of historical wears but we all are. We all need to attempt to preserve objects of the past so that future generations can learn from them. Rather than taking that dress in or out, why not check out the seam lines and see if you can recreate a pattern from it? As for the items being yours - well, the old house was your parents', right? I highly doubt they were allowed to do whatever they pleased with it. The laws and regulations for houses began due to people with your mindset. Originally, Independence Hall was scheduled to be torn down because the people that owned the land didn't care about it's historical value. Shakespeare's home was torn down because the individual that owned the land didn't care about the historical value.We need to appreciate the value in all objects and attempt to preserve them. Of course, just like houses, there are exceptions - if the dress is too badly damaged to be saved then save what can be saved and reuse those bits. If the silk is shattered or dry rot has gotten to too much of it then take what can be used. But in dresses that , in your opinion, are good enough to wear? No. That's like destroying the an antique building that is good enough to live in. I know you won't listen, Fran. I've been on this list long enough to know that. I also know you'll write back telling me how I have no business telling you what to do with your stuff and how I should just go away. It will probably take three or four paragraphs. ;-) However, I know it will make others on the list stop and think. And if we stop this cultural object destruction only one person at a time, so be it. -Isabella > Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 18:10:24 -0700 > From: Lavolta Press > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta > Press) > Message-ID: <51563b80.9020...@lavoltapress.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > What I am saying is the do-not-cross line is strictly up to the owner of > the item. The families wealthy enough to have "family jewels" have > traditionally often reset them to current styles and sometimes, recut > stones with new techniques. The 18th-century diamond necklace might be > lovely, and so is the Victorian one later made from the same diamonds, > and so is the Art Deco one even later made from the same diamonds. It's > other people's business to criticize the owners for their goal of having > stylish jewelry to wear now instead of unstylish jewelry preserved in a > vault. And it's useless. Everyone on this list can get together in a > committee and decide no one should ever alter any jewelry set after > 1920, or whatever, and the owners will go right ahead and do it. I doubt > I'm ever going to have to face that particular issue personally, but if > someone ever gives me a whopping diamond necklace in a style I don't > like, I will certainly feel free to have it reset in a style I do like. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > www.lavoltapress.com > > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
Fran and I don't always see eye to eye. But I have to agree with her on this one. Sounds like these tunics/shifts, which started the discussion, exist in great numbers. Let us hope someone, somewhere, has saved a couple, along with their provenance (if they were indeed worn at institutions, or whatever). For the rest, well, we can't save EVERYTHING. If we did, we would be covered with mountains of stuff. Museums run out of storage space eventually, you know. Even the National Museum of American History (aka America's Attic), is getting extremely selective about what they will collect. They just don't have room for everything everyone wants to give them. And as to Fran's being rude, well, some of you gave her a pretty hard time, too. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Maggie Koenig To: Historical Costume Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 7:24 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press) Fran, at this point I think you are just being downright rude. Someone said something you disagree with and instead of being open to a discussion about preservation vs. use you are just telling us all to go away. So, please either contribute while respecting the opinions of others or stop posting on the subject. Maggie Koenig Sent from my iPhone On Mar 30, 2013, at 2:35 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: > I fail to see how it's any of your business. > > Fran > > > On 3/29/2013 10:45 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote: >> Dear Isabella, >> >> Likewise. I am sure. Brava! for saying so out loud. >> >> == Marjorie Wilser >> >> >> On Mar 29, 2013, at 1:25 PM, . . wrote: >> >>> I am HORRIFIED at the idea of using an antique piece of our cultural >>> history as something to wear; let alone cut it and dye it! Would you buy a slightly rundown Victorian house and tear it up to sell off the pieces and remake it into a modern home? Of course not! Most countries now have regulations to protect these homes as part of our cultural heritage. It's sad that we do not have similar laws to protect against the destruction of antiquities as is being described here. I'm completly revolted at the idea of tearing up a garmet that is not shreaded, not in rags, just to make a t-tunic? You can make a t-tunic out of good old linen for far less than $40 if watch for coupons and stash reduction sales. There is no reason whatsoever to destroy a piece of history just to get something to wear. >>> >>> -Isabella >> >> ___ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
Fran, at this point I think you are just being downright rude. Someone said something you disagree with and instead of being open to a discussion about preservation vs. use you are just telling us all to go away. So, please either contribute while respecting the opinions of others or stop posting on the subject. Maggie Koenig Sent from my iPhone On Mar 30, 2013, at 2:35 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: > I fail to see how it's any of your business. > > Fran > > > On 3/29/2013 10:45 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote: >> Dear Isabella, >> >> Likewise. I am sure. Brava! for saying so out loud. >> >> == Marjorie Wilser >> >> >> On Mar 29, 2013, at 1:25 PM, . . wrote: >> >>> I am HORRIFIED at the idea of using an antique piece of our cultural >>> history as something to wear; let alone cut it and dye it! Would you buy a >>> slightly rundown Victorian house and tear it up to sell off the pieces and >>> remake it into a modern home? Of course not! Most countries now have >>> regulations to protect these homes as part of our cultural heritage. It's >>> sad that we do not have similar laws to protect against the destruction of >>> antiquities as is being described here. I'm completly revolted at the idea >>> of tearing up a garmet that is not shreaded, not in rags, just to make a >>> t-tunic? You can make a t-tunic out of good old linen for far less than >>> $40 if watch for coupons and stash reduction sales. There is no reason >>> whatsoever to destroy a piece of history just to get something to wear. >>> >>> -Isabella >> >> ___ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
