Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Lynn Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I usually just lurk on this list and occasionally ask questions or respond. My question is when making a dress like this one with a close front bodice, where do you put the lacing? I've read if it's english that it goes in the back, but haven't been able to confirm or deny this. Also, if you were doing a spanish one, where would the lacing go? Did they always use lacing in this period or did they also use hookand eye, and if so where did they use it.Lllynn Juan de Alcega was printed in a later period, however the styles seemed not to move much in Spain after the beginning of the 15th c. There were many different styles, they were the leaders at the time. The Hispanic Costume Book shows where they fasten up with an open front, closed laced front, back and side closures. I can't see what kind of closures. Yes, many of them with the over robe and high waist look like they could be pregnant, even the children. What a good coverup. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
I usually just lurk on this list and occasionally ask questions or respond. My question is when making a dress like this one with a close front bodice, where do you put the lacing? I've read if it's english that it goes in the back, but haven't been able to confirm or deny this. Also, if you were doing a spanish one, where would the lacing go? Did they always use lacing in this period or did they also use hookand eye, and if so where did they use it.Lllynn Bonnie Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: least one figure in the Herod scene has a close front bodice and if you haven't already started the bodice that might be a way to go. http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/o/ordonez/d_felipe.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/lazarus2.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/herodias.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/b/borgona/ladyhare.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/gallego/catholic.html Those are examples from 1490-1515 with the closed front and no hoops. I think the bust portrait you have (also on WGA and by Juan de Flandres) is of a no hooped sort too. Thanks for the help. What really caught my eye was the portrait of Juana la Loca. I looked for a bodice in the 1490s that carried out that theme. I have the kirtle underneath. The bodice is cut out and the eyes bought for the laces. I have a lot of embroidery throughout. I have most of my good gowns with closed bodices, lacing in the back, side, front. I wanted something I had nothing of for some special silk a friend brought me back from China. I have had to study completely new cuts and ideas for this. I love the ideas. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
I usually just lurk on this list and occasionally ask questions or respond. My question is when making a dress like this one with a close front bodice, where do you put the lacing? I've read if it's english that it goes in the back, but haven't been able to confirm or deny this. Also, if you were doing a spanish one, where would the lacing go? Did they always use lacing in this period or did they also use hookand eye, and if so where did they use it.Lllynn Side or side back would be my bet. You see either in Italian and Flemish art of a time just before and after and much later in the 16thC Alcega has a pattern for a kirtle with bodice that has the closure side back (the front and back bodice pieces are on the fold, same with front and back of the skirt). http://www.alfayomega.es/estatico/anteriores/alfayomega336/enportada/ep_reportaje2.html This is the image I mentioned earlier that shows hoops worn by real people but that has the open gown. What is interesting about this image is that it shows a high waist. There is a legend that the hoops came about to hide a pregnancy. Doesn't this high waist with hoops support this idea rather more than a regular waisted garment? No idea if it is true or not but I could believe the rumour started after seeing this particular style! Regards, Michaela de Bruce http://glittersweet.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
least one figure in the Herod scene has a close front bodice and if you haven't already started the bodice that might be a way to go. http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/o/ordonez/d_felipe.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/lazarus2.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/herodias.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/b/borgona/ladyhare.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/gallego/catholic.html Those are examples from 1490-1515 with the closed front and no hoops. I think the bust portrait you have (also on WGA and by Juan de Flandres) is of a no hooped sort too. Thanks for the help. What really caught my eye was the portrait of Juana la Loca. I looked for a bodice in the 1490s that carried out that theme. I have the kirtle underneath. The bodice is cut out and the eyes bought for the laces. I have a lot of embroidery throughout. I have most of my good gowns with closed bodices, lacing in the back, side, front. I wanted something I had nothing of for some special silk a friend brought me back from China. I have had to study completely new cuts and ideas for this. I love the ideas. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
Thanks. That was what I was thinking, but I wanted confirmation. You can see what I'm working on at www.myspace/1aspasia.com It isn't one dress, but a combination. I'm in a wheel chair and can't do hoops. It has been a while since I have updated, but just my running thoughts and pictures and documentation as I go. On an educated guess, since you didn't post an image you are working from, but I am thinking the skirt also opens in front, as a slit down from the laced opening a short ways, just enough to help you get the dress over the head. That is what I will be doing with my 1500s working dress I am working on. I'm working on a 1490 Hispanic court gown. I'm getting ready to attach the skirt. It is open in the front and laces in the front. It is open like the German gowns with laces across. Can anyone tell me how the skirt opens? ___ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
I can't seem to access your site. Is the url correct? Kimiko --- On Fri, 6/6/08, Bonnie Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bonnie Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 11:27 AM Thanks. That was what I was thinking, but I wanted confirmation. You can see what I'm working on at www.myspace/1aspasia.com snip ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
Thanks. That was what I was thinking, but I wanted confirmation. You can see what I'm working on at www.myspace/1aspasia.com http://www.myspace.com/1aspasia (no .com after that) Best to copy and paste as, in my mail anyway, the automatic linking started from the 1 last time ;) You also need to be a member of myspace (which I am, geek*) to see the photos. I'm not sure which of the images you are aiming for but at least one figure in the Herod scene has a close front bodice and if you haven't already started the bodice that might be a way to go. http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/o/ordonez/d_felipe.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/lazarus2.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/j/juan/1/herodias.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/b/borgona/ladyhare.html http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/gallego/catholic.html Those are examples from 1490-1515 with the closed front and no hoops. I think the bust portrait you have (also on WGA and by Juan de Flandres) is of a no hooped sort too. All the images I've seen show no indication that the gowns open below the waist of the skirt. Most lacing visibly finishes at the waist, such as the two main figures in the Herod image. I have seen, and cannot find it again, a c1500s painting with the Madonna weeping and what may be side lacing. But I cant find it again so that may be poor memory. Regards, Michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com *lj, blogger, myspace, facebook, yahoo groups**, tribe and lots of fora online ** Yahoo only just left me back in after a few months of bad coding ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kimiko, Kimiko Small wrote: | I can't seem to access your site. Is the url correct? I think that this is it: http://www.myspace.com/1aspasia Kathleen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIScsRl1I2MRCAstYRAmuzAJ9MXYd0u+Fkly07wuXNzI8Yb911aQCfRl+S sqR1RuI38Q1v4MzjQ8r8Ex4= =wPvg -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
I'm working on a 1490 Hispanic court gown. I'm getting ready to attach the skirt. It is open in the front and laces in the front. It is open like the German gowns with laces across. Can anyone tell me how the skirt opens? -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help
On an educated guess, since you didn't post an image you are working from, but I am thinking the skirt also opens in front, as a slit down from the laced opening a short ways, just enough to help you get the dress over the head. That is what I will be doing with my 1500s working dress I am working on. Kimiko --- On Thu, 6/5/08, Bonnie Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bonnie Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, June 5, 2008, 8:39 AM I'm working on a 1490 Hispanic court gown. I'm getting ready to attach the skirt. It is open in the front and laces in the front. It is open like the German gowns with laces across. Can anyone tell me how the skirt opens? -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
