Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
I think nurse's caps were more of a professional symbol, though. I believe each nursing school had its own cap design. I remember being in the hospital as a child, in 1967 or so, and being entranced with one nurse whose cap was a frilly little lampshade thing. I remember her saying it was a real pain to iron. Margo My mother was a nurse in the 60s - graduation was frequently called capping, because of the cap's importance as a symbol. Her cap was relatively plain I can remember her starching it flattening it on the refrigerator to dry. When it was dry, she took it down folded it into shape. Patty ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
In a message dated 5/31/2008 10:52:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think nurse's caps were more of a professional symbol, though. I wonder how nun's veils play into this. Sisters of mercy, y'know. Many nuns were nurses y'know, from the beginning. **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch Cooking with Tyler Florence on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?NCID=aolfod000302) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
Don't nurses wear veils in the UK? I remember from several movies... Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants In a message dated 5/31/2008 10:52:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think nurse's caps were more of a professional symbol, though. I wonder how nun's veils play into this. Sisters of mercy, y'know. Many nuns were nurses y'know, from the beginning. **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch Cooking with Tyler Florence on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?NCID=aolfod000302) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
At 18:58 01/06/2008, you wrote: Don't nurses wear veils in the UK? I remember from several movies... Monica Nurses don't wear actual veils, but caps, some of which are very, very elaborate. St. Thomas's sisters used to wear a cap called a Nightingale, which was a nightmare to fold and starch. Some Matrons seem to have worn veil-like headdresses, and used to march along corridors like ships in full sail. Nuns still wear veils here, but fairly simple, going by the nuns from the place just off Oxford Street, In London's West End. Suzi In a message dated 5/31/2008 10:52:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think nurse's caps were more of a professional symbol, though. I wonder how nun's veils play into this. Sisters of mercy, y'know. Many nuns were nurses y'know, from the beginning. **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch Cooking with Tyler Florence on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?NCID=aolfod000302) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
It's not quite 1840s but here's a fashion plate from 1852 showing a nurse http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/pics/1852_4.shtml (presumably a nurse would wear similar clothes to a maid) I think a dark coloured wool in a somewhat conservative cut (nobody likes their servants dressing above their station) would be the most sensible style for somebody who is doing potentially messy work (unless it was so messy you would want a cotton wash dress) a cap was a badge of servitude for many years after other women had abandoned them (even into the early 20th century you see maids and waitresses in restaurants wearing some sort of remnant of a cap on their heads). Clean, starched, white aprons were also important for female servants when they were 'on display' in a sense (e.g. when answering the door or serving visitors) as another badge of servitude it showed their status and that they hadn't been doing any messy work (or at least not recently). I know this is later than your period, but Isabella Beeton's book of household management outlines the duties of various servants and sometimes includes references to clothing http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/beeton/isabella/household/chapter41.html You may also find images of servants in the background in some royal portraits http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/category.asp?category=AAPICTURESrow=0 HTH Elizabeth - Original Message - From: Serena Dyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:01 AM Subject: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants Does anyone know of any quotes or pictorial sources for what house maids or a ladies' maid would be wearing in the 1830s-40s? I have been asked to make servants' dress of this date for historical interpretation, and am trying to find a source to replicate which will challenge the black gown/white apron look, which our visitors seem to associate with them. Thanks Serena Dyer http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk http://www.dressing-history.co.uk ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
Have you looked at The Workwoman's Guide by a Lady? It was published originally in 1838, and republished in 1986 by Opus Publications. On page 110 of my copy is a description (with a tiny pattern elsewhere) of a High Full Gown, to open in front ... particularly suitable for house-maids, dairy or kitchen maids, chair [char?] and washerwomen; I'm betting there are other descriptions, but I'm not finding them at the moment. Regards, Deb Salisbury The Mantua-Maker Designer and creator of quality historical sewing patterns Renaissance to Victorian www.mantua-maker.com Does anyone know of any quotes or pictorial sources for what house maids or a ladies' maid would be wearing in the 1830s-40s? I have been asked to make servants' dress of this date for historical interpretation, and am trying to find a source to replicate which will challenge the black gown/white apron look, which our visitors seem to associate with them. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
I would think that a nurse would probably have worn something to identify her profession from a maid or servant. What about the BBC series upstairs/downstairs (this might be to late) or did they have the sterio type uniforms? There should be several BBC series that show maids in uniforms. -Original Message- It's not quite 1840s but here's a fashion plate from 1852 showing a nurse http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/pics/1852_4.shtml (presumably a nurse would wear similar clothes to a maid) I think a dark coloured wool in a somewhat conservative cut (nobody likes their servants dressing above their station) would be the most sensible style for somebody who is doing potentially messy work (unless it was so messy you would want a cotton wash dress) a cap was a badge of servitude for many years after other women had abandoned them (even into the early 20th century you see maids and waitresses in restaurants wearing some sort of remnant of a cap on their heads). Clean, starched, white aprons were also important for female servants when they were 'on display' in a sense (e.g. when answering the door or serving visitors) as another badge of servitude it showed their status and that they hadn't been doing any messy work (or at least not recently). I know this is later than your period, but Isabella Beeton's book of household management outlines the duties of various servants and sometimes includes references to clothing http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/beeton/isabella/household/chapter41.h tml You may also find images of servants in the background in some royal portraits http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/category.asp?category=AAPICTURES; row=0 HTH Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
This period is before Florence Nightingale gave nursing it's prestige. Before her work in the Crimean War, nursing was not a particularly skilled or important job- most women did it more or less by default. I doubt there would have been an identifiable uniform for a nurse in the 1840's. Karen Seamstrix -- otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would think that a nurse would probably have worn something to identify her profession from a maid or servant. What about the BBC series upstairs/downstairs (this might be to late) or did they have the sterio type uniforms? There should be several BBC series that show maids in uniforms. -Original Message- It's not quite 1840s but here's a fashion plate from 1852 showing a nurse http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/pics/1852_4.shtml (presumably a nurse would wear similar clothes to a maid) I think a dark coloured wool in a somewhat conservative cut (nobody likes their servants dressing above their station) would be the most sensible style for somebody who is doing potentially messy work (unless it was so messy you would want a cotton wash dress) a cap was a badge of servitude for many years after other women had abandoned them (even into the early 20th century you see maids and waitresses in restaurants wearing some sort of remnant of a cap on their heads). Clean, starched, white aprons were also important for female servants when they were 'on display' in a sense (e.g. when answering the door or serving visitors) as another badge of servitude it showed their status and that they hadn't been doing any messy work (or at least not recently). I know this is later than your period, but Isabella Beeton's book of household management outlines the duties of various servants and sometimes includes references to clothing http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/beeton/isabella/household/chapter41.h tml You may also find images of servants in the background in some royal portraits http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/category.asp?category=AAPICTURES; row=0 HTH Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Save on Moving Supplies. Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oij8fb5xPmtHLFvOoOXp1Ymw6R8RtGLDQHWNOYOJ9KTwrdu/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
At 18:22 31/05/2008, you wrote: I would think that a nurse would probably have worn something to identify her profession from a maid or servant. What about the BBC series upstairs/downstairs (this might be to late) or did they have the sterio type uniforms? There should be several BBC series that show maids in uniforms. -Original Message- It's not quite 1840s but here's a fashion plate from 1852 showing a nurse http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/pics/1852_4.shtml (presumably a nurse would wear similar clothes to a maid) I think a dark coloured wool in a somewhat conservative cut (nobody likes their servants dressing above their station) would be the most sensible style for somebody who is doing potentially messy work (unless it was so messy you would want a cotton wash dress) a cap was a badge of servitude for many years after other women had abandoned them (even into the early 20th century you see maids and waitresses in restaurants wearing some sort of remnant of a cap on their heads). Clean, starched, white aprons were also important for female servants when they were 'on display' in a sense (e.g. when answering the door or serving visitors) as another badge of servitude it showed their status and that they hadn't been doing any messy work (or at least not recently). I know this is later than your period, but Isabella Beeton's book of household management outlines the duties of various servants and sometimes includes references to clothing http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/beeton/isabella/household/chapter41.h tml You may also find images of servants in the background in some royal portraits http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/category.asp?category=AAPICTURES; row=0 HTH Elizabeth The fashion plate is not actually of a nurse, but a nursemaid, and as such is not the same as a household servant. She ranks alongside a lady's maid, and although she is wearing dark clothing, was not expected to wear uniform. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Occupational-Costume-England-Eleventh-Century/dp/B00166AA20/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1212255187sr=1-8 This should have the information you require. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
At 18:28 31/05/2008, you wrote: This period is before Florence Nightingale gave nursing it's prestige. Before her work in the Crimean War, nursing was not a particularly skilled or important job- most women did it more or less by default. I doubt there would have been an identifiable uniform for a nurse in the 1840's. During the Crimean War nurses at Scutari did not wear uniforms, as you say. They wore clean white aprons as a sign of their profession, which was not considered respectable, in most places. (A new biography on her has just been shown on British TV, which, of course I missed, but there were articles in several papers/magazines.) Uniforms were, I believe a later innovation, when the Nightingale School was instituted at St. Thomas's Hospital in London, when Miss Nightingale returned from the Crimea. Suzi Karen Seamstrix -- otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would think that a nurse would probably have worn something to identify her profession from a maid or servant. What about the BBC series upstairs/downstairs (this might be to late) or did they have the sterio type uniforms? There should be several BBC series that show maids in uniforms. -Original Message- It's not quite 1840s but here's a fashion plate from 1852 showing a nurse http://www.marquise.de/en/1800/pics/1852_4.shtml (presumably a nurse would wear similar clothes to a maid) I think a dark coloured wool in a somewhat conservative cut (nobody likes their servants dressing above their station) would be the most sensible style for somebody who is doing potentially messy work (unless it was so messy you would want a cotton wash dress) a cap was a badge of servitude for many years after other women had abandoned them (even into the early 20th century you see maids and waitresses in restaurants wearing some sort of remnant of a cap on their heads). Clean, starched, white aprons were also important for female servants when they were 'on display' in a sense (e.g. when answering the door or serving visitors) as another badge of servitude it showed their status and that they hadn't been doing any messy work (or at least not recently). I know this is later than your period, but Isabella Beeton's book of household management outlines the duties of various servants and sometimes includes references to clothing http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/beeton/isabella/household/chapter41.h tml You may also find images of servants in the background in some royal portraits http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/category.asp?category=AAPICTURES; row=0 HTH Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Save on Moving Supplies. Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3oij8fb5xPmtHLFvOoOXp1Ymw6R8RtGLDQHWNOYOJ9KTwrdu/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
In a message dated 5/31/2008 1:30:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: upstairs/downstairs (this might be to late) Upstairs/Downstairs takes place in the 20th century. Like 1908, 1910, 1912, or bothit ran a long time. By then each servant position had it's own uniform, just about. I remember an episode where one of the chambermaids is promoted to Nursemaid. She is ridiculed for wearing her special uniform, proudly, before she has actually taken over the position. And it's too late not to late but you knew that. I would think [though I'm guessing from what I knowand you want documentation] the cut of a maid's gown would be practical [open CF, not too full a skirt] with all the aprons, sleeve guards and what-nots she needed to do her job. Fabrics would be dark or grey and washable...unless she was answering the door and then she might have a plain silk. But not a real uniform. Of course manservants usually dealt with the public I thinky'know, the butler answering the door. Then there are the Great households. Would they still have livery? A la 18th century? Just for the evening or also during the day? **Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch Cooking with Tyler Florence on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?NCID=aolfod000302) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
At 19:15 31/05/2008, you wrote: In a message dated 5/31/2008 1:30:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: upstairs/downstairs (this might be to late) Upstairs/Downstairs takes place in the 20th century. Like 1908, 1910, 1912, or bothit ran a long time. By then each servant position had it's own uniform, just about. I remember an episode where one of the chambermaids is promoted to Nursemaid. She is ridiculed for wearing her special uniform, proudly, before she has actually taken over the position. And it's too late not to late but you knew that. I would think [though I'm guessing from what I knowand you want documentation] the cut of a maid's gown would be practical [open CF, not too full a skirt] with all the aprons, sleeve guards and what-nots she needed to do her job. Fabrics would be dark or grey and washable...unless she was answering the door and then she might have a plain silk. But not a real uniform. Of course manservants usually dealt with the public I thinky'know, the butler answering the door. Then there are the Great households. Would they still have livery? A la 18th century? Just for the evening or also during the day? The British Royal Household servants still wear uniform, livery and all for State occasions - think Coronation, Royal Wedding, coaches for the State Opening of Parliament etc. In Queen Victoria's day the men servants wore the equivalent of black morning suits, with cutaway coats - there are photos. (It was sometimes difficult to tell the butler from the Lord!!) Many of the great households have had photos of their servants, all of whom would have worn some kind of uniform, such as aprons for the gardeners, caps and aprons for maids etc. However, for the date required it is highly unlikely these photos would be of any help, although uniform is very fossilised. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
a cap was a badge of servitude for many years after other women had abandoned them (even into the early 20th century you see maids and waitresses in restaurants wearing some sort of remnant of a cap on their heads) I can recall most waitresses wearing caps and aprons well into the 1960's, in rural California. I think nurse's caps were more of a professional symbol, though. I believe each nursing school had its own cap design. I remember being in the hospital as a child, in 1967 or so, and being entranced with one nurse whose cap was a frilly little lampshade thing. I remember her saying it was a real pain to iron. Margo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
Reading various posts makes me more confident that this suggestion might be helpful: try looking at the illustrations to Charles Dickens' novels. David Copperfield is, if I recall correctly, 1850, but much of it is set earlier, in David's boyhood and adolescence, making the period of the illustrations 1820-1840. Several other novels AND The Pickwick Papers are earlier. The illustrations, mostly by Phiz, are wonderful, and show characters of many classes and callings. I'd bet there's a lady's maid or a housemaid, or both, in there somewhere. Sorry don't have online sources, but any library would have the books. And speaking of books, is London Labour and the London Poor too early? I associate it with Dickens' time but might be wrong. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On May 26, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Serena Dyer wrote: Does anyone know of any quotes or pictorial sources for what house maids or a ladies' maid would be wearing in the 1830s-40s? I have been asked to make servants' dress of this date for historical interpretation, and am trying to find a source to replicate which will challenge the black gown/white apron look, which our visitors seem to associate with them. Thanks Serena Dyer http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk http://www.dressing-history.co.uk ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
England primarily, but anything from eastern europe would be useful. Thanks Serena dressing-history.co.uk -Original Message- What country? -Original Message- Does anyone know of any quotes or pictorial sources for what house maids or a ladies' maid would be wearing in the 1830s-40s? I have been asked to make servants' dress of this date for historical interpretation, and am trying to find a source to replicate which will challenge the black gown/white apron look, which our visitors seem to associate with them. Thanks Serena Dyer ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
These are from the google pictures This is probably 1700s but was told it was 1800s http://museumnetworkuk.org/portraits/artworks/holburne/large/img10.jpg typical maid attire http://tinyurl.com/4twjfy scroll through http://tinyurl.com/3t5ha4 late 1700s? http://www.prints-online.com/pictures_608630/SERVING-MAID-CHOCOLATE.jpg http://tinyurl.com/6jk2ky slavey? http://adamsmithlives.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/slavey_2.jpg hope this helps -Original Message- England primarily, but anything from eastern europe would be useful. Thanks Serena dressing-history.co.uk ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
Does anyone know of any quotes or pictorial sources for what house maids or a ladies' maid would be wearing in the 1830s-40s? I have been asked to make servants' dress of this date for historical interpretation, and am trying to find a source to replicate which will challenge the black gown/white apron look, which our visitors seem to associate with them. Thanks Serena Dyer http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk http://www.dressing-history.co.uk ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830s-40s Servants
What country? -Original Message- Does anyone know of any quotes or pictorial sources for what house maids or a ladies' maid would be wearing in the 1830s-40s? I have been asked to make servants' dress of this date for historical interpretation, and am trying to find a source to replicate which will challenge the black gown/white apron look, which our visitors seem to associate with them. Thanks Serena Dyer ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
