Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not!...maybe
The military cocked hat is also cocked differently from the equilaterally cocked hat. There are portraits that show the hat tipped back, not just parodies. The one that comes to mind immediately is a sporting painting however. I will try to look up the name and artist, I know I have a copy of it around here somewhere. I have seen two that I can remember, which I only remember because I hate the look and was surprised to see it. It looks so Disney. "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carol Kocian Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:50 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not!...maybe The purpose of the point over the left eye was so the musket barrel would not hit it. There are probably caricatures of hats being worn back on the head, but the fashion was straight. I remember hearing that 17thC hats were round rather than oval, and the distortion when worn caused the fashionable undulation of the brim. That doesn't happen when the brim is cocked up. Stretching the hat to oval will change the shape a bit, but not the the extent that it's visible with a free brim. Carol On Apr 15, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: > I think they were designed to be worn straight. When I did 18th > century re-enactment 30 years ago, we were told that soldiers' hats > should be worn with the front point an inch above the left eyebrow. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian & 17th century reenactor > > -- > > Not especially my period, but were they worn straight on the head? > If you > wear a hat tilted back so it sits where an alice band would be, > rather than > around the crown of your head, then the crown of the hat can have a > circular > rather than oval profile. > > Claire ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not!...maybe
The purpose of the point over the left eye was so the musket barrel would not hit it. There are probably caricatures of hats being worn back on the head, but the fashion was straight. I remember hearing that 17thC hats were round rather than oval, and the distortion when worn caused the fashionable undulation of the brim. That doesn't happen when the brim is cocked up. Stretching the hat to oval will change the shape a bit, but not the the extent that it's visible with a free brim. Carol On Apr 15, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: I think they were designed to be worn straight. When I did 18th century re-enactment 30 years ago, we were told that soldiers' hats should be worn with the front point an inch above the left eyebrow. Kate Bunting Librarian & 17th century reenactor -- Not especially my period, but were they worn straight on the head? If you wear a hat tilted back so it sits where an alice band would be, rather than around the crown of your head, then the crown of the hat can have a circular rather than oval profile. Claire ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not!...maybe
I think they were designed to be worn straight. When I did 18th century re-enactment 30 years ago, we were told that soldiers' hats should be worn with the front point an inch above the left eyebrow. Kate Bunting Librarian & 17th century reenactor -- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 21:22:27 +0930 From: "Claire Clarke" Subject: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not! ...maybe To: Message-ID: <000601c9b909$a79da320$f6d8e9...@com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not especially my period, but were they worn straight on the head? If you wear a hat tilted back so it sits where an alice band would be, rather than around the crown of your head, then the crown of the hat can have a circular rather than oval profile. Claire The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk The policy is available here: http://www.derby.ac.uk/LIS/Email-Policy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not! ...maybe
I usually wear my reproductions level or tilted to one side. I wear one daily. I have seen them worn at all angles in portraiture. The round shape of a proper reproduction (most do not have it) really isn't as much of a problem as one would think "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Claire Clarke Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 7:52 AM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not! ...maybe Not especially my period, but were they worn straight on the head? If you wear a hat tilted back so it sits where an alice band would be, rather than around the crown of your head, then the crown of the hat can have a circular rather than oval profile. Claire Message: 7 Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:11:33 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! ..maybe... To: "'Historical Costume'" Message-ID: <005201c9b7ef$56ff2bc0$04fd83...@carnegie@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 They certainly were worn in the late 18th century. I am not certain that it was ever true that they were only carried, but if it is it had to have been earlier. Usually that story goes along with the huge tall hats of the early period. Wigs decline in favour through the period "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melody Watts Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:14 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! ..maybe... Weren't the majority of the hats for the era, merely carried under the arm or in the hand,as a sort of "fashion accessory"? So if not actually worn,it wouldn't matter on the shape of the headpiece. Perhaps they had "Dress"hats,with?the rounded crown?and "everyday/working mans" hats,shaped for a head,?that were worn, the Accessory hats,not actually being worn and subject to sweat,weather and wear and tear will have survived.The actual everyday worn on your head hat will have worn out and been discarded eventually. just a muse. melody ? --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Ron Carnegie wrote: From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 5:32 AM Of course the originals have seen are round and not oval.? The leaves (flaps) are held up in period by a stitched tacks, hook and eyes, or tapes, usually two for each leave.? The arrangement of the leaves depends upon style.? They are properly referred to as cocked hats, tricorn being a modern term for them. "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads...not! ...maybe
Not especially my period, but were they worn straight on the head? If you
wear a hat tilted back so it sits where an alice band would be, rather than
around the crown of your head, then the crown of the hat can have a circular
rather than oval profile.
Claire
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:11:33 -0400
From: "Ron Carnegie"
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads
...not! ..maybe...
To: "'Historical Costume'"
Message-ID: <005201c9b7ef$56ff2bc0$04fd83...@carnegie@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
They certainly were worn in the late 18th century. I am not certain that it
was ever true that they were only carried, but if it is it had to have been
earlier. Usually that story goes along with the huge tall hats of the early
period. Wigs decline in favour through the period
"I'm your huckleberry"
Ron Carnegie
r.carne...@verizon.net
-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Melody Watts
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:14 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not!
..maybe...
Weren't the majority of the hats for the era, merely carried under the arm
or in the hand,as a sort of "fashion accessory"? So if not actually worn,it
wouldn't matter on the shape of the headpiece.
Perhaps they had "Dress"hats,with?the rounded crown?and "everyday/working
mans" hats,shaped for a head,?that were worn, the Accessory hats,not
actually being worn and subject to sweat,weather and wear and tear will have
survived.The actual everyday worn on your head hat will have worn out and
been discarded eventually.
just a muse.
melody
?
--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Ron Carnegie wrote:
From: Ron Carnegie
Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not!
To: "'Historical Costume'"
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 5:32 AM
Of course the originals have seen are round and not oval.? The leaves
(flaps) are held up in period by a stitched tacks, hook and eyes, or tapes,
usually two for each leave.? The arrangement of the leaves depends upon
style.? They are properly referred to as cocked hats, tricorn being a modern
term for them.
"I'm your huckleberry"
Ron Carnegie
r.carne...@verizon.net
___
h-costume mailing list
h-costume@mail.indra.com
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads ...not! ..maybe...
> Weren't the majority of the hats for the era, merely carried under the arm > or in the hand,as a sort of "fashion accessory"? So if not actually worn,it Of course they were worn. I have seen the comic book version of Robert Newton in Treasure Island and he is wearing one so it must be true, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads ...not! ..maybe...
I meant huge tall wigs "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Ron Carnegie Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:12 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads ...not! ..maybe... They certainly were worn in the late 18th century. I am not certain that it was ever true that they were only carried, but if it is it had to have been earlier. Usually that story goes along with the huge tall hats of the early period. Wigs decline in favour through the period "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melody Watts Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:14 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! ..maybe... Weren't the majority of the hats for the era, merely carried under the arm or in the hand,as a sort of "fashion accessory"? So if not actually worn,it wouldn't matter on the shape of the headpiece. Perhaps they had "Dress"hats,with the rounded crown and "everyday/working mans" hats,shaped for a head, that were worn, the Accessory hats,not actually being worn and subject to sweat,weather and wear and tear will have survived.The actual everyday worn on your head hat will have worn out and been discarded eventually. just a muse. melody --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Ron Carnegie wrote: From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 5:32 AM Of course the originals have seen are round and not oval. The leaves (flaps) are held up in period by a stitched tacks, hook and eyes, or tapes, usually two for each leave. The arrangement of the leaves depends upon style. They are properly referred to as cocked hats, tricorn being a modern term for them. "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melody Watts Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 10:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! You know what the worse part of using a ball or bowl,is the shap is indeed round. Most peoples heads are actually oval, so if you set it to dry on a ball the fit is off and really hard to keep on your head. I had this happen with a very nice 1900 era straw boater, I set it to dry on a gallon paint can and when it was dry it looked like a cheap party hat,a round hat trying to sit on my oval head. If I had to do it over again, I would don a plastic shower cap and wear the darn hat til it dried.Those wig head stands usually have a very small circumference,too melody --- On Mon, 4/6/09, stils...@netspace.net.au wrote: From: stils...@netspace.net.au Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats To: "Historical Costume" Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 5:38 PM The tricorn origin was just pinning up wide-brim hats until the floppy bits were out of the way. The most common of what we call a tricorn had a dome crown (cylindrical is not unheard of but the dome is the most common). So: Grab a hat that matches your size requirements. If you have a larger one, pin it up and cut the brim; Wet the thing with felt stiffener (there are several brands, all stink to high heaven so do it outdoors or in a ventilated area), set the shape that you want and leave it to dry; As a tip, if you do not have a reliably heavy hatblock or mannequin head to leave it dry upon, use a ball of the right size; Add decoration and edging when dry, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads ...not! ..maybe...
They certainly were worn in the late 18th century. I am not certain that it was ever true that they were only carried, but if it is it had to have been earlier. Usually that story goes along with the huge tall hats of the early period. Wigs decline in favour through the period "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melody Watts Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:14 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! ..maybe... Weren't the majority of the hats for the era, merely carried under the arm or in the hand,as a sort of "fashion accessory"? So if not actually worn,it wouldn't matter on the shape of the headpiece. Perhaps they had "Dress"hats,with the rounded crown and "everyday/working mans" hats,shaped for a head, that were worn, the Accessory hats,not actually being worn and subject to sweat,weather and wear and tear will have survived.The actual everyday worn on your head hat will have worn out and been discarded eventually. just a muse. melody --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Ron Carnegie wrote: From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 5:32 AM Of course the originals have seen are round and not oval. The leaves (flaps) are held up in period by a stitched tacks, hook and eyes, or tapes, usually two for each leave. The arrangement of the leaves depends upon style. They are properly referred to as cocked hats, tricorn being a modern term for them. "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melody Watts Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 10:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! You know what the worse part of using a ball or bowl,is the shap is indeed round. Most peoples heads are actually oval, so if you set it to dry on a ball the fit is off and really hard to keep on your head. I had this happen with a very nice 1900 era straw boater, I set it to dry on a gallon paint can and when it was dry it looked like a cheap party hat,a round hat trying to sit on my oval head. If I had to do it over again, I would don a plastic shower cap and wear the darn hat til it dried.Those wig head stands usually have a very small circumference,too melody --- On Mon, 4/6/09, stils...@netspace.net.au wrote: From: stils...@netspace.net.au Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats To: "Historical Costume" Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 5:38 PM The tricorn origin was just pinning up wide-brim hats until the floppy bits were out of the way. The most common of what we call a tricorn had a dome crown (cylindrical is not unheard of but the dome is the most common). So: Grab a hat that matches your size requirements. If you have a larger one, pin it up and cut the brim; Wet the thing with felt stiffener (there are several brands, all stink to high heaven so do it outdoors or in a ventilated area), set the shape that you want and leave it to dry; As a tip, if you do not have a reliably heavy hatblock or mannequin head to leave it dry upon, use a ball of the right size; Add decoration and edging when dry, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats ....round heads ...not! ..maybe...
Weren't the majority of the hats for the era, merely carried under the arm or in the hand,as a sort of "fashion accessory"? So if not actually worn,it wouldn't matter on the shape of the headpiece. Perhaps they had "Dress"hats,with the rounded crown and "everyday/working mans" hats,shaped for a head, that were worn, the Accessory hats,not actually being worn and subject to sweat,weather and wear and tear will have survived.The actual everyday worn on your head hat will have worn out and been discarded eventually. just a muse. melody --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Ron Carnegie wrote: From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 5:32 AM Of course the originals have seen are round and not oval. The leaves (flaps) are held up in period by a stitched tacks, hook and eyes, or tapes, usually two for each leave. The arrangement of the leaves depends upon style. They are properly referred to as cocked hats, tricorn being a modern term for them. "I'm your huckleberry" Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melody Watts Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 10:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats round heads ...not! You know what the worse part of using a ball or bowl,is the shap is indeed round. Most peoples heads are actually oval, so if you set it to dry on a ball the fit is off and really hard to keep on your head. I had this happen with a very nice 1900 era straw boater, I set it to dry on a gallon paint can and when it was dry it looked like a cheap party hat,a round hat trying to sit on my oval head. If I had to do it over again, I would don a plastic shower cap and wear the darn hat til it dried.Those wig head stands usually have a very small circumference,too melody --- On Mon, 4/6/09, stils...@netspace.net.au wrote: From: stils...@netspace.net.au Subject: Re: [h-cost] 18th century Tricorn hats To: "Historical Costume" Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 5:38 PM The tricorn origin was just pinning up wide-brim hats until the floppy bits were out of the way. The most common of what we call a tricorn had a dome crown (cylindrical is not unheard of but the dome is the most common). So: Grab a hat that matches your size requirements. If you have a larger one, pin it up and cut the brim; Wet the thing with felt stiffener (there are several brands, all stink to high heaven so do it outdoors or in a ventilated area), set the shape that you want and leave it to dry; As a tip, if you do not have a reliably heavy hatblock or mannequin head to leave it dry upon, use a ball of the right size; Add decoration and edging when dry, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
