Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
I did it. Your link to the Italian chemise was just what I needed to get me past a potential block on this project. I'm about 1/2 way through the basic assembly - maybe a 1/2 hour to go. The neckline - the important feature on this chemise, will certainly take longer, but I can always use a project to work on while sitting through music lessons. This is just a trial run, using a very light, sheer 100% cotton with a very subtle crinkle. Nothing period about it, but the crinkle may actually work well for producing the look of the chemise in the painting. After I've worked out the kinks of sizing and assembly on this one, I'll settle on a real linen for a second version. I'm betting though, that this trial-run if it turns out wearable, will actually get a lot of use. So thanks again for the link and suggestions. I'm off and running and quite excited. My studio was getting lonely, but maybe this will lead to my getting busy on other projects too...need to prime the pump sometimes. Laurie T. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:08 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern As I recall, the general consensus is that this raglan-style is not supported by current research. If you want a more documentable pattern, go with this one: http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/chemise.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
There are examples of the camicia/chemise with a quasy raglan sleeve but they have gussets. Smocking and gathering was done. A ruler and blue chalk to mark the stitches or if in a hurry, a basting stitch on your sewing machine will help give even gatherings for pleating. If you have patience you can count the threads. Side note, the chemise's hem does not go to the floor, it is usually calf length. Fabric was silk or linen (I have heard rumors of cotton as well for mid to late 1500s) Currently, silk and cotton are your cheapest route. You can get the light weight, near sheer linen from a company in Europe for roughly $45 yd. 36 wide. Most settle for handkerchief weight linen which is a shade or two heavier then sheer linen. There is a Yahoo Groups list for Italian Renaissance costuming. You should be able to get even more info. on Italian Ren clothing there. The pic that you chose is Venetian influence and therefore you may wish to peruse the Realm of Venus site as there are some differences of clothing between Italian city states. De -Original Message- (snip) I agree completely about the 'gathering' looking like very fine cartridge pleating. It will be a test of my stitching patience, but I love the look. Yes, the softer and lighter the fabric, the better my odds for success. I'll try my cotton first, just as a practice run and because it is here and ready. After that...time to shop I suppose. Thank you so much for your response. With everything that everyone has offered up in the way of links and ideas, I'm comfortable finally with getting this chemise started and finished. Laurie T. -Original Message- As I recall, the general consensus is that this raglan-style is not supported by current research. If you want a more documentable pattern, go with this one: http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/chemise.html Refer also to Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 4 for tips on how to accomplish the gathering. Gathering, back in their day, is a lot more like super-fine cartridge pleating. That's really just how it turns out when you do gathering stitches by hand (it doesn't have to, but it sure looks good that way). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
Not that I'm in the market for it currently ;) but I'd love to know the name of the company in Europe that offers the sheer linen... -M On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:27 PM, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote: There are examples of the camicia/chemise with a quasy raglan sleeve but they have gussets. Smocking and gathering was done. A ruler and blue chalk to mark the stitches or if in a hurry, a basting stitch on your sewing machine will help give even gatherings for pleating. If you have patience you can count the threads. Side note, the chemise's hem does not go to the floor, it is usually calf length. Fabric was silk or linen (I have heard rumors of cotton as well for mid to late 1500s) Currently, silk and cotton are your cheapest route. You can get the light weight, near sheer linen from a company in Europe for roughly $45 yd. 36 wide. Most settle for handkerchief weight linen which is a shade or two heavier then sheer linen. There is a Yahoo Groups list for Italian Renaissance costuming. You should be able to get even more info. on Italian Ren clothing there. The pic that you chose is Venetian influence and therefore you may wish to peruse the Realm of Venus site as there are some differences of clothing between Italian city states. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
On Oct 11, 2010, at 6:10 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: Laurie T wrote: The chemise in the painting seems unlikely to have a drawstring neckline. Any thoughts on this? We discussed drawstrings on shifts/chemises a few years ago, and the consensus was that before the 18th century they all had sewn gathers round the neck and wrists. I recently heard a talk by Stuart Peachey, the British expert on the 17th century, and asked him a question about this. He confirmed the above statement. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor. Not much in the way of drawstrings in the 18thC, either. There are a few cases of a drawstring to snug up or hold the shape of a neckline, but not for controlling mass quantities of fabric. Shift sleeves were gathered into cuffs that buttoned and sometimes had a ruffle added.. Some decades had volume in the sleeves, others had less volume when the gown sleeves fit closely. I think the 1960s/70s peasant look made us believe drawstrings were all over the place. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
Not much in the way of drawstrings in the 18thC, either. There are a few cases of a drawstring to snug up or hold the shape of a neckline, but not for controlling mass quantities of fabric. The 1820s sources I used for _The Lady's Stratagem_ recommended using a drawstring around the chemise neckline for decency while getting dressed. Fran Lavolta Press Two new books of 1880s clothing patterns! www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
Well, it sounds as though you all have run into enough evidence of sewn gathers on chemise necklines, for my idea of the chemise in the image being sewn gathers to be correct. Did that statement make any sense? So, I'm thinking that I'll go with the sewn gathers, though getting them sized right may be a bit tricky. Of course, worse come to worse, I can always fall back on an old theatre costume trick to adjust the fit - catch-stitching over elastic on the inside - not period but not visible, so if necessary... Pattern-wise, I'm leaning towards the pattern shown on both of these links. It should be close enough to the chemise in the image that started all this, at least for my purposes. If I were going to produce my own fiber, spin and weave it, I'd be more concerned about exactly how the image chemise was made, but this will do. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cheminst.html http://www.reddawn.net/costume/chemise.htm http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23 Any other thoughts on the pattern most welcome. Laurie T. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Carol Kocian Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 9:57 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern On Oct 11, 2010, at 6:10 AM, Kate Bunting wrote: Laurie T wrote: The chemise in the painting seems unlikely to have a drawstring neckline. Any thoughts on this? We discussed drawstrings on shifts/chemises a few years ago, and the consensus was that before the 18th century they all had sewn gathers round the neck and wrists. I recently heard a talk by Stuart Peachey, the British expert on the 17th century, and asked him a question about this. He confirmed the above statement. Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor. Not much in the way of drawstrings in the 18thC, either. There are a few cases of a drawstring to snug up or hold the shape of a neckline, but not for controlling mass quantities of fabric. Shift sleeves were gathered into cuffs that buttoned and sometimes had a ruffle added.. Some decades had volume in the sleeves, others had less volume when the gown sleeves fit closely. I think the 1960s/70s peasant look made us believe drawstrings were all over the place. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
As I recall, the general consensus is that this raglan-style is not supported by current research. If you want a more documentable pattern, go with this one: http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/chemise.html As her notes say, this pattern was taken from the book Cut My Cote which (as I recall) itself took the pattern from a surviving garment. People have used this pattern for years, and I would say it does result in a garment that looks a lot like your example painting. Refer also to Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 4 for tips on how to accomplish the gathering. Gathering, back in their day, is a lot more like super-fine cartridge pleating. That's really just how it turns out when you do gathering stitches by hand (it doesn't have to, but it sure looks good that way). I think you mentioned that you have fabric, but I will note: to best approximate this look, you'll benefit from fabric with a super soft hand. This: http://www.renaissancefabrics.net/cgi-bin/showAll.cgi?id=286category=Cotton%20Fabricfabric=53 might do the job. A pure silk voile might even be better, but I don't know where to find such fabric. Claudine - Original Message From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, October 11, 2010 11:53:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern snipped Pattern-wise, I'm leaning towards the pattern shown on both of these links. It should be close enough to the chemise in the image that started all this, at least for my purposes. If I were going to produce my own fiber, spin and weave it, I'd be more concerned about exactly how the image chemise was made, but this will do. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cheminst.html http://www.reddawn.net/costume/chemise.htm http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23 Any other thoughts on the pattern most welcome. Laurie T. snipped ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
Raglan-sleeve chemises have attempted to cut my arms off. If you must go with them, put a gusset under your arms. Ann in CT --- On Mon, 10/11/10, Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com wrote: http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23 Any other thoughts on the pattern most welcome. Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern
Wow! Not only did you answer my question, but you actually managed to send me a link to a web page that I had not seen before - funny considering that I am familiar with Festive Attyre, but just missed that chemise page! That's practically an early X-mas present! I agree completely about the 'gathering' looking like very fine cartridge pleating. It will be a test of my stitching patience, but I love the look. Yes, the softer and lighter the fabric, the better my odds for success. I'll try my cotton first, just as a practice run and because it is here and ready. After that...time to shop I suppose. Thank you so much for your response. With everything that everyone has offered up in the way of links and ideas, I'm comfortable finally with getting this chemise started and finished. Laurie T. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, October 11, 2010 12:08 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern As I recall, the general consensus is that this raglan-style is not supported by current research. If you want a more documentable pattern, go with this one: http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/chemise.html As her notes say, this pattern was taken from the book Cut My Cote which (as I recall) itself took the pattern from a surviving garment. People have used this pattern for years, and I would say it does result in a garment that looks a lot like your example painting. Refer also to Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 4 for tips on how to accomplish the gathering. Gathering, back in their day, is a lot more like super-fine cartridge pleating. That's really just how it turns out when you do gathering stitches by hand (it doesn't have to, but it sure looks good that way). I think you mentioned that you have fabric, but I will note: to best approximate this look, you'll benefit from fabric with a super soft hand. This: http://www.renaissancefabrics.net/cgi-bin/showAll.cgi?id=286category=Cotto n%20Fabricfabric=53 might do the job. A pure silk voile might even be better, but I don't know where to find such fabric. Claudine - Original Message From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, October 11, 2010 11:53:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chemise pattern snipped Pattern-wise, I'm leaning towards the pattern shown on both of these links. It should be close enough to the chemise in the image that started all this, at least for my purposes. If I were going to produce my own fiber, spin and weave it, I'd be more concerned about exactly how the image chemise was made, but this will do. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cheminst.html http://www.reddawn.net/costume/chemise.htm http://exhibits.denverartmuseum.org/artisansandkings/?page_id=23 Any other thoughts on the pattern most welcome. Laurie T. snipped ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
