Re: [h-cost] Terminology of pleats
Yikes, what is overhanding? I am not familiar with that term, can you explain it a little more? I am trying to imagine cartridge pleating which are overlapped to reduce bulk... Organ pipes and cartridge pleats are definitely not the same thing. I don't have access to the Oxford online dictionary anymore, but my memory is that Michaela is correct...it shows up in the 19th century. Furthermore, I've not been able to find any specific word for it in German either. Organ pleats, in my opinion, taper towards the top in the same way as an organ pipe does. As often as I have contemplated these things, and made them up, it was only when I looked at those military bases in August that the picture became clear as to why they were called this. When people spoke of them tapering, I always was focused on the fact that they were wider at the hem then where they were attached. I think I might have said this in my write up, but organ pipes are often sliced on the diagonal at the top (which is what I think Suzi is referring to.). When they are viewed from the un-sliced side, there is a point at the top which tapers down in an oval shape. This is very much what they look like. There are some who say they aren't any different then rolled pleats. While rolled pleats look a lot like the organ pipe pleats along their length, they are blunted off in the attachment area. They look squared off or rounded (I am not talking about contemporary portraits here, I am talking about garments I've made up.) Those pictures where the organ pipe pleats have alternating colors are an indication that they are made in sectioned tapers. Otherwise they are cut on a circle - you'd have to have a mighty big piece of fabric to do rolled pleats on a circle. I'd say the same for cartridge pleats. Generally the latter two lend themselves towards long lengths of straight fabric. I wonder if we could date the term to when organ pipes were made like this. BTW, anyone know why an organ is called an organ?? I know it is a musical instrument with air supplied by a bellows of sorts, but why wasn't a flute called an organ... Anyone know why the ends are tapered? I figure it has to do with the sound mechanics...but aren't there all sorts of pipe instruments where the outlet is flat? Sg Of course I keep threatening to write a paper on them, but haven't gotten around to it for four years. I know it ain't happening in the next 6 months either. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Terminology of pleats
Hi all, Are cartridge pleats and organ pleats the same thing? That's what Janet Arnold says in PoF, and I'm inclined to believe her. Actually, I'm looking for the French term: I found plis canon(s) and plis en tuyaux d'orgue (though I'm wondering if that isn't a direct translation from English). I still haven't found a good source for this, they're absent from every specialized lexicon I've looked at so far. Seems my sources are too recent, I can only find box pleats, knife pleats and the likes! No open pleats. Thanks for any help! Audrey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Terminology of pleats
At 23:21 13/10/2006, you wrote: Hi all, Are cartridge pleats and organ pleats the same thing? That's what Janet Arnold says in PoF, and I'm inclined to believe her. Actually, I'm looking for the French term: I found plis canon(s) and plis en tuyaux d'orgue (though I'm wondering if that isn't a direct translation from English). I still haven't found a good source for this, they're absent from every specialized lexicon I've looked at so far. Seems my sources are too recent, I can only find box pleats, knife pleats and the likes! No open pleats. Thanks for any help! Audrey I think they are different. Cartridge pleats are tubes = roughly the same thickness throughout, similar to a cartridge holder on a man's belt. Organ pleats, in my opinion, taper towards the top in the same way as an organ pipe does. At least that is how I have always defined them in my mind. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Terminology of pleats
Are cartridge pleats and organ pleats the same thing? That's what Janet Arnold says in PoF, and I'm inclined to believe her. Can o' worms! Cartridge pleating seems to have become synonymous with overhanding. Yet you can overhand almost any kind of pleat to reduce bulk at the waist. I usually overhand pleats that overlap so I don't wind up with 8 layers of fabric in my waist! These most certainly are not cartridge pleats. It should refer only to those pleats padded and overhanded so as to look like a row of cartridges. Otherwise it could mean nearly any kind of pleat under the sun and be of no help whatsoever when used to describe a garment. It also leads to cross purposes when giving instructions for how to assemble a garment. The term is also a very recent one, it's seen in the 1920s and not much earlier. I've also been lead to believe that gauging was the 19thC term but I can only find that to refer to the method of drawing of the gathers to be overhanded. I can only find box pleats, knife pleats and the likes! No open pleats. That's all I can find. Well actually pleats and reverse pleats usually. And that is about as specific as it gets;) I have a feeling it was mostly a case of make this fit the neatest way how. Michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/475 - Release Date: 13/10/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
