RE: [h-cost] Valuation of collection
Just out of curiosity would his name be Richard Collins? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaggiRos Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:33 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Valuation of collection I have a friend who is both a lawyer and a costumed weirdo like the rest of us. He practices here in California, but he might be able to provide some guidance. Contact information available on request. MaggiRos No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.4/1057 - Release Date: 10/8/2007 9:04 AM ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Valuation of collection
Heather said: Just a brief idea: the method of valuation depends on the purpose. If you were setting a value to something for insurance, that would different from estimating what to charge for a commission, etc. It seems to me (but IANAL) that in the context of a divorce, the key question is what is the liquidatable value of this property? Spoken like finance professional. Also, Kathy, you are selling used clothing, and not your time effort. As Heather says, that would be considered in the replacement cost of each item. During your term of ownership, you've used up some portion of the original value of each of these assets. What you are recouping now is the, unfortunately termed, salvage value of the items. No one has mentioned this side: If you are trying to value these costumes and keep them, then you'd certainly want to price them as used, low value, unsaleable items for purposes of sharing out the assets of the marriage. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Valuation of collection
What I'd like to know is if most of these costumes are made for and worn by her and her daughter and thus proof of ownership, it therefore should NOT be shared property unless HE has been wearing the items himself as well. His lawyer can not make her sell the costumes. If she sells the costumes then the money becomes shared property but until then, again, unless he wears them as well, they are her's. All commissioned costumes need to be sold to the ones that commissioned them then that money is shared property. All costumes not sewn for anyone in particular or a customer backed out would be sold and money becomes shared property. It sounds like she needs another lawyer and if she doesn't have one she needs to try to find a pro bono (sp?) one. If the husband is the one filing for divorce for reasons of another woman then he is in the hot seat position and he should be making the concession. There is one thing that one SHOULD NOT do is find physical ways to get even. One may be angry at the jerk but burning clothes, destroying their stuff will not put the judge's or judge advocate 's mood to your side. And if children are involved do not act like a child or bad mouth the other person in front of the child as there is enough problems the child has to work through emotionally with a divorce. De Personal opinion and not a lawyer. -Original Message- Heather said: Just a brief idea: the method of valuation depends on the purpose. If you were setting a value to something for insurance, that would different from estimating what to charge for a commission, etc. It seems to me (but IANAL) that in the context of a divorce, the key question is what is the liquidatable value of this property? Spoken like finance professional. Also, Kathy, you are selling used clothing, and not your time effort. As Heather says, that would be considered in the replacement cost of each item. During your term of ownership, you've used up some portion of the original value of each of these assets. What you are recouping now is the, unfortunately termed, salvage value of the items. No one has mentioned this side: If you are trying to value these costumes and keep them, then you'd certainly want to price them as used, low value, unsaleable items for purposes of sharing out the assets of the marriage. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Valuation of collection
otsisto wrote: What I'd like to know is if most of these costumes are made for and worn by her and her daughter and thus proof of ownership, it therefore should NOT be shared property unless HE has been wearing the items himself as well. I think that depends on the state you live in. For example, I live in California, which is a community property state. Legally half my earnings and half my personal possessions belong to my husband--and vice versa. My creditors could attach property in his name, or part of his earnings--and his creditors could attach my property and earnings. I've lived happily with the same man since I was 18, so I know little about divorce. However, the little I've gathered from seeing other people's California divorces indicates that any financial arrangement the couple can manage to negotiate together, and legally sign up to, is valid. For example, if one party is willing to let the other party retain certain assets, their value doesn't really matter. I've never known anyone to force liquidation to divide up property for a divorce; though I suppose someone somewhere must have done it. So frankly, I think the strategy is for her to convince her soon-to-be-ex-husband that her partly-worn clothes, in her own personal size, are of little value or use to him. Probably in return for giving up something else that _he_ wants, but which is hopefully something she does not actually want. Of course, that may be exactly what he's doing claiming her wardrobe--trying to get her to give up her claim to something _he_ wants much more than a bunch of women's clothes. Failing that, to hire an official appraiser--and try to get one who will stress the low value of the wardrobe, its worn condition, unique sizing, unsuitability for ordinary daily use (after all, we're not talking about new Prada handbags or diamond necklaces here, something the average lawyer or jury would attach more value to than historic costume), etc. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Valuation of collection--again
BTW, I don't see that a father has any claim on his children's (or stepchildren's, if that's the case) personal posessions in a divorce suit. He's not divorcing the daughter. Fran Lavolta Press wrote: otsisto wrote: What I'd like to know is if most of these costumes are made for and worn by her and her daughter and thus proof of ownership, it therefore should NOT be shared property unless HE has been wearing the items himself as well. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Valuation of collection
I have a friend who is both a lawyer and a costumed weirdo like the rest of us. He practices here in California, but he might be able to provide some guidance. Contact information available on request. MaggiRos --- otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I'd like to know is if most of these costumes are made for and worn by her and her daughter and thus proof of ownership, it therefore should NOT be shared property unless HE has been wearing the items himself as well. [...] Vikings? What Vikings? We are but poor, simple farmers. The village was burning when we got here. Anon. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Valuation of collection--again
So any costume that is the daughter's stays with the daughter and should not be up for sale unless the daughter wishes to sell it. Right? De -Original Message- BTW, I don't see that a father has any claim on his children's (or stepchildren's, if that's the case) personal posessions in a divorce suit. He's not divorcing the daughter. Fran Lavolta Press wrote: ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Valuation of collection--again
Well, I'd think so. Fran otsisto wrote: So any costume that is the daughter's stays with the daughter and should not be up for sale unless the daughter wishes to sell it. Right? De -Original Message- BTW, I don't see that a father has any claim on his children's (or stepchildren's, if that's the case) personal posessions in a divorce suit. He's not divorcing the daughter. Fran Lavolta Press wrote: ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Subject: [h-cost] Valuation of collection
Having gone some of this route myself... be very careful about validation. And don't get trapped into what he's saying. The rules for things like books and clothing are garage sale prices. (Boy, did I skate by on my book collection. Tilki = $2 G) And, the reality is, if you try to sell the pieces... they sell as used. Not only are you likely to not get your labor, but not get your material costs at liquidation prices... which is what you've got to use. Don't be prideful and values them at what they're worth to you, or insurance rates. Ex: My Snow Queen had over $1500 in materials alone and was in excellent condition. It could sized up and down a lot was covered in hand beading and crystal and all kinds of extras from wig to shoes. I worked on it for over 2 years to create a living sculpture Even with the most advertising I could muster, and selling near Halloween, it went for under $325. I couldn't even get e-bay sales on some of the other things because they were not what folks wanted. They ended up sold to neighbors and thrift shops for $25 to $35, even with hand beadings and embroidery... because to them they were just rental costumes... and not the flashy kind. (The exception was a flashy disaster of a t-tunic that had never been finished that folks fought over because they though it said Harry Potter... and I made money on that thing.) If your hubby argues at the low set prices. Ask if he'll split the cost of having someone come in and value them value-for-sale prices... and use a vintage clothing/costume dealer, not a historic expert. IF he doesn't like it, ask him to do the work of listing the pieces you're selling on e-bay and see what you get (and then value the pieces you're keeping from the same prices.) There is NO need for you to dance to his tune. He's forfeit any claim at this point to even suggest. Go with the letter of the law. -Cat- Been there, done that, and even lost the t-shirt off my back but at least I have a spine now. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Valuation of collection
Hello everyone, The divorce saga continues. Ugh. My collection is large enough that it's going to wind up on the inventory list for the division of assets. Oh joy. I have to reduce my collection to a bunch of numbers. Some of these things were for my personal collection and thus I never bothered to count hours put in, so I have NO clue what I would valuate them at. Trying to do searches on various costuming sites is proving very lengthy and tedious - time I just don't have since I am scrambling to rebuild myself enough to find a job (anyone having leads for a lowly costumer in dire need of a place to work, do let me know!) and keep up with my soon-to-be- ex's demanding schedule. Apparently I should be waking up one morning totally over it and greeting him at the door like my best buddy already. Then again twelve years of his life was a complete waste of time to him. So much for memories. Getting on with it, I was hoping that everyone as costumers would be willing to throw your opinions - they don't have to be vastly detailed, just a round number - on what these items are worth on the market. Some of them already have a valuation, which you will see - these ones I did count, and are very flexible now. The numbers merely represent actual hours and actual materials costs - I charged myself out $10.00/hr. I am sitting here right now as I type - well, you know what I mean. ;-) putting up measurements for those whom have contacted me with interest for my pieces. That will give you a start on your decision making process. Anything I plan on keeping is marked not for sale. But, if you like it just that much, we can talk. Thanks for your patience with the harried, rather miserable creature that I am, Kathy ~He didn't think the bed prank was as funny as I did. But it was very satisfying!~ Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert (Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lions head erased gules. It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. Who you are is contained inside, and no one can change that. They can only assist you in denying who you are, but not indelibly reshape you to their own image. Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Valuation of collection
Remember, they're only worth what someone is willing to pay, so don't overvalue them. It's probably in your best interest to sell first, then split whatever they bring. Your ex may think they're worth more than you can actually get. Hoping for the best for you, Sharon C. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Page Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:57 AM To: Historical Costume List Subject: [h-cost] Valuation of collection Hello everyone, The divorce saga continues. Ugh. My collection is large enough that it's going to wind up on the inventory list for the division of assets. Oh joy. I have to reduce my collection to a bunch of numbers. Some of these things were for my personal collection and thus I never bothered to count hours put in, so I have NO clue what I would valuate them at. Trying to do searches on various costuming sites is proving very lengthy and tedious - time I just don't have since I am scrambling to rebuild myself enough to find a job (anyone having leads for a lowly costumer in dire need of a place to work, do let me know!) and keep up with my soon-to-be- ex's demanding schedule. Apparently I should be waking up one morning totally over it and greeting him at the door like my best buddy already. Then again twelve years of his life was a complete waste of time to him. So much for memories. Getting on with it, I was hoping that everyone as costumers would be willing to throw your opinions - they don't have to be vastly detailed, just a round number - on what these items are worth on the market. Some of them already have a valuation, which you will see - these ones I did count, and are very flexible now. The numbers merely represent actual hours and actual materials costs - I charged myself out $10.00/hr. I am sitting here right now as I type - well, you know what I mean. ;-) putting up measurements for those whom have contacted me with interest for my pieces. That will give you a start on your decision making process. Anything I plan on keeping is marked not for sale. But, if you like it just that much, we can talk. Thanks for your patience with the harried, rather miserable creature that I am, Kathy ~He didn't think the bed prank was as funny as I did. But it was very satisfying!~ Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert (Fieldless) On a rose Or barbed vert a lions head erased gules. Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot Tosach eólais imchomarc. - Questioning is the beginning of knowledge. Who you are is contained inside, and no one can change that. They can only assist you in denying who you are, but not indelibly reshape you to their own image. Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail at http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Valuation of collection
On Sep 23, 2007, at 8:57 AM, Kathy Page wrote: Hello everyone, The divorce saga continues. Ugh. My collection is large enough that it's going to wind up on the inventory list for the division of assets. Oh joy. I have to reduce my collection to a bunch of numbers. snip Just a brief idea: the method of valuation depends on the purpose. If you were setting a value to something for insurance, that would different from estimating what to charge for a commission, etc. It seems to me (but IANAL) that in the context of a divorce, the key question is what is the liquidatable value of this property? That is, supposing that he, physically, were handed half the wardrobe of costumes, how much cash could he reasonably expect to turn them into on eBay or the equivalent without expending a great deal of time and effort? For that, you shouldn't need to evaluate your specific costumes individually -- simply research final sale prices of roughly equivalent items (i.e., used custom-made costumes being sold to someone they weren't custom-made for) in a market that can be assume to reflect fair market expectations. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
