[h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House (Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suure?) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, E House wrote: > Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart > Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in > Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X This is out. Our reviewer already has her copy. I don't know when orders were shipped to purchasers, but if you ordered through an intermediary, it may take longer. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
At 12:41 PM 3/16/2006, you wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House (Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suure?) I ordered "The Tudor Tailor" and I'm eagerly awaiting its delivery. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
E House wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X Yes. "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? No. The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Boydell & Brewer (David Brown Co., in the US) had it out last month. Arlys On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:32:17 -0600 (CST) Robin Netherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, E House wrote: > > > Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > > > "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and > Stuart > > Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites > in > > Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X > > This is out. Our reviewer already has her copy. I don't know when > orders > were shipped to purchasers, but if you ordered through an > intermediary, it > may take longer. > > --Robin > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
- Original Message - From: "Lavolta Press" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ she's checked that, but I'll make sure. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Considering it's almost impossible to get hold of a live person at Amazon, the "Your Account" page is probably your only recourse. Note that these days if you choose the free shipping option, Amazon often holds the entire order until _all_ items are available, which can be weeks or even a couple of months. I'm not worrying about my order for the _Tudor Tailor_, and wouldn't until around mid April at the very least. First they have to get the books from the printer--March is not over yet--then yours has to get to you, presumably via media mail. In fact I seldom worry about these things at all--nagging someone is not going to get either their book printer or media mail to hurry up. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: - Original Message - From: "Lavolta Press" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ she's checked that, but I'll make sure. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Boydell & Brewer (David Brown Co., in the US) had it out last month. David Brown is the US branch of the UK's Oxbow booksellers; it is not the same as the publisher Boydell & Brewer, though Brown/Oxbow sells many of Boydell's books (including mine). --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
At 20:49 16/03/2006, you wrote: I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I ordered "Tudor Tailor" and have not received it yet. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House (Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suure?) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Try 1-800-201-7575. I've gotten a real, live person at this number. Good luck! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:59 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Considering it's almost impossible to get hold of a live person at Amazon, the "Your Account" page is probably your only recourse. Note that these days if you choose the free shipping option, Amazon often holds the entire order until _all_ items are available, which can be weeks or even a couple of months. I'm not worrying about my order for the _Tudor Tailor_, and wouldn't until around mid April at the very least. First they have to get the books from the printer--March is not over yet--then yours has to get to you, presumably via media mail. In fact I seldom worry about these things at all--nagging someone is not going to get either their book printer or media mail to hurry up. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: > - Original Message - From: "Lavolta Press" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where >> you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. > > > The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ > she's > checked that, but I'll make sure. > > -E House > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
On Thursday 16 March 2006 6:24 pm, Suzi Clarke wrote: [snip] > >E House wrote: > >>Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > >> > >> > >> > >>"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) > >>ISBN: ? > > Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They > will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. Good. I have my certificate that the received my payment; just waiting for the book -- Cathy Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
>Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They >will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. >Suzi Thank you. I am also waiting for a copy. Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 3/15/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I have been working my way through the Egan Finds book for nearly two weeks now. I ordered it through David Brown Book Company along with Live and Death aboard the Mary Rose. A mere $100 combined, but for the bookoholic and Tudor addict, they are both "necessary" (yes, I know I'm late on my taxes, but there were these books... You understand, don't you?) Regina > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Suzi Clarke > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 3:24 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books > > > At 20:49 16/03/2006, you wrote: > > >I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March > >2006" and it is still March... > > > >E House wrote: > > > >>Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > >> > >> > >> > >>"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) > >>ISBN: ? > > > Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They > will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. > > Suzi > > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Mine said Feb. 21 still no book Brin "Lonnie D. Harvel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: >Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > > >"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) >ISBN: ? > > > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
So what's the implication here? That the seller is dishonest or that the publisher's printer is late? Or that media mail is slow? If their printer is late (and book printers usually are late, by some weeks), there is nothing you, a retailer, or in many cases the publisher can do about it. Book printers often work on the schedule most convenient for themselves. If the book was shipped by media mail, which can take a month or more, there is nothing much anyone can do about it after the book has been shipped. The post office also tends to work on the schedule most convenient for themselves. There is also nothing the members of h-costume can do about your order. Why not just ask whoever you ordered the book from--the retailer or the publisher? And what's the rush anyway? You preordered a book knowing it was not immediately available. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Edith Reardon wrote: Mine said Feb. 21 still no book Brin "Lonnie D. Harvel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger with Voice ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Well, I don't think there is any problem. In my case, as I said, the book is not even late. My voucher says it will be mailed when the First Editions come in (expected by the end of March). Given processing and mailing time, I wouldn't be concerned until the end of May comes along and I haven't heard anything. Not worried, just impatient for what looks like a wonderful resource! ;) Lonnie Lavolta Press wrote: So what's the implication here? That the seller is dishonest or that the publisher's printer is late? Or that media mail is slow? "Lonnie D. Harvel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Well, my hurry on the first order is that the book has been released, and was released about 7 weeks ago; the seller claims it should arrive within 2-4 weeks, which means _my_ individual order is 3-5 weeks late. I know others have gotten their copy; this leads me to think that something has gone wrong with _my_ order, and before I call the seller up to ask what's wrong, it seemed reasonable to try to find out if _I'm_ the only one with this problem, or if it's a problem everyone else is having. Since I was already asking about the one book, it seemed like a good time to ask about the other, which--as I stated in my email--I know is NOT late; it's merely eagerly expected. Based on what is on the writers'/publisher's website, mid-March is about the earliest it could have arrived; I posted about this in the hopes that those who lived closest to the mailing point might already have gotten their books, which would have meant that I, here in the US, was within a week or two of receiving my copy. I am not surprised or upset to discover that no one else has gotten their copy; I am merely better informed, having asked and been answered. I realize that this could be a touchy subject for you, but I think you're misinterpreting eager expectation as anger, which is no way involved--not even on the overdue book, and certainly not in this post. My original post was a request for information; not a complaint. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I realize that this could be a touchy subject for you, Why? I don't sell books before I get them in (although it is a common practice, and there is nothing wrong with it), nor do I get many complaints about late arrivals. I was merely trying to explain how the book industry works--which is about all you can expect from a post to people who know nothing about your order. There is no need to interpret _my_ repsonses as anger. I have nothing to do with either of these books. Fran Lavolta Press htttp://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
?? Fran, I don't know you in person, but the tone of your notes does sometimes come across as, well, touchy. Don't know if you care or not, but the original poster's not the only one to think that --Sue - Original Message - From: "Lavolta Press" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books > > > > > I realize that this could be a touchy subject for you, > > Why? I don't sell books before I get them in (although it is a common > practice, and there is nothing wrong with it), nor do I get many > complaints about late arrivals. I was merely trying to explain how the > book industry works--which is about all you can expect from a post to > people who know nothing about your order. There is no need to interpret > _my_ repsonses as anger. I have nothing to do with either of these books. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > htttp://www.lavoltapress.com > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
No, I don't care if "lots of other people" think I'm not "nice," or whatever. Or whether they "like" me or not. I don't believe in the traditional (and outmoded) female role model of constantly saying, "of course, it's only my opinion," "it's just my two cents," "your mileage may vary," "what does the rest of the group think?" ad nauseum. That's all about conformity. It has nothing to do with kindness, helpfulness, informativeness, or any positive virtue. Those are just continual statements that a woman is not supposed to think independently and that she should always be ready to back down the instant someone disagrees with her or says she's "rude." It has nothing to do with real friendhip. A large percentage of the women playing out that role are constantly trying to stab each other in the back just under the line of what "the group"--whichever group it is--will openly complain about. Or getting together to gang up on each other, because if you've got enough people on your side, apparently it's OK to be as nasty as you want. Men, on the other hand, do not have to apologize every time they make a statement. They just do it. If more women felt OK about saying what they thought and doing what they wanted, maybe they'd stop trying to get everyone else to conform and lead more productive lives themselves. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Sue Clemenger wrote: ?? Fran, I don't know you in person, but the tone of your notes does sometimes come across as, well, touchy. Don't know if you care or not, but the original poster's not the only one to think that --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Greetings-- I don't believe in the traditional (and outmoded) female role model of constantly saying, "of course, it's only my opinion," "it's just my two cents," "your mileage may vary," "what does the rest of the group think?" ad nauseum. That's all about conformity. It has nothing to do with kindness, helpfulness, informativeness, or any positive virtue. Those are just continual statements that a woman is not supposed to think independently and that she should always be ready to back down the instant someone disagrees with her or says she's "rude." I can't say I agree with you that it's about conformity or being female. It *can* be about conformity, but it also can be about leadership. I am a project manager by profession, and I absolutely have to say in team meetings "what does the rest of the group think"? My job is to lead the project--but I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about software programming, and I'm going to rely on the experts to tell me if that schedule I'm expecting them to follow is unreasonable. If I don't do that, project fails, no matter how "strong" I am. Sometimes I have to turn around and then say to that expert who told me they could get something done in ten days, "OK, it's the seventh day and you're only 50% done. What's with that?" and hold them to their commitment. I'll agree that women should not just back down because someone disagrees with them or calls them rude. However, I can't agree that being honest about one's opinions or asking for input from others is necessarily a bad trait. It all depends on the way it's done and how. Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I can't say I agree with you that it's about conformity or being female. It *can* be about conformity, but it also can be about leadership. I am a project manager by profession, and I absolutely have to say in team meetings "what does the rest of the group think"? A recreational e-group is not a job/work team meeting. Nor, unlike a work meeting, does it usually exist to perform any specific task or solve any specific problem. Nor do most social situations exist for work purposes. What I am driving at is that women traditionally--though not, BTW, by most employees in any company I've ever worked for, and not nearly as much in the San Francisco area as with people from some other geographic areas I encounter on the net--are expected to express themselves differently from men. Some women seem to feel expected to say almost everything with an implicit apology built in, a continual deference to everyone else, a continual wariness as to whether they're agreeing or disagreeing with anyone whatever about anything whatever. The attitude is that people are always important than facts, ideas, analysis, and any and every criteria above or outside of "belonging to the group." I find it puzzling, because as I said, real friendship is very seldom involved. It's not like most people women are expected to defer to would do anything whatever for them in any time of trouble. Often the relationships they work so hard to maintain have a constant hostile undercurrent. It seems like a useless endeavor. And, most men get through life just fine saying what they think and standing by it. There is no reason why women should have to behave differently. I'll agree that women should not just back down because someone disagrees with them or calls them rude. However, I can't agree that being honest about one's opinions or asking for input from others is necessarily a bad trait. I think being honest about one's opinions--rather than constantly deferring to others regarding said opinions--is a very positive trait. As for asking for input from others--asking someone who has, or who you believe to have expertise, is not the same thing as constantly making sure you don't ever disagree with anyone about anything, or apologizing every time you do. Most of what I'm talking about has nothing to do with anyone's expertise. Also, the business of a social group allotting people specific slots as anoited experts who are assumed to be _always_ right about their topic, and whom no one ever disagrees with, and some of them even expect everyone to apologize for offering any information about "their" topic even if it is in agreement with them: This is just a facet of what I was talking about above, assuming that "the group" is always more important than ideas, facts, analysis, and everything outside "the group." In other words, it is sensible to ask your plumber for her or his expert opinion on whether all your pipes really need to be replaced. Even though you may or may not follow that advice, because it is also sensible to get estimates from other plumbers and read up on the subject before hiring anyone. Just because an "expert" says something does not mean they are always correct or unbiased. Going through social or work life saying, "I don't want to step on anyone's toes by even discussing this subject, and I don't want to upset anyone by disagreeing, but I think thus and so, but of course your mileage may vary and I'm perfectly willing to retract everything I just said if even a single person disagrees, and if I did happen to disagree with anyone I'm really sorry because I must have hurt their feelings" yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, is just female conformity that achieves no productive end whatever. It all depends on the way it's done and how. It also depends on where it's done, and for what purpose. Again, a meeting of project members on a work team is not a social e-group. Nor do I usually hear people constantly apologizing for their opinions or stated facts in work situations. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I don't believe in the traditional (and outmoded) female role model of constantly saying, "of course, it's only my opinion," "it's just my two cents," "your mileage may vary," "what does the rest of the group think?" ad nauseum. Tone is not apparent on a list like this one, so I think it's important to spell out one's opinions and offer citations. Statements like those Fran mentions are sometimes used to emphasize that the writer is not saying "always" or "never". There are plenty of topics in costume research where we can state a general trend, which may have rare exceptions. Or the observation is different in another culture or a few decades earlier/later. It's a soft area of research in many ways, with new information found or new experiments attempted. Some of the statements are a shorthand way of saying "This is my own research/experience and others may find something different. I would be very interested to hear about any examples in XYZ culture for the years __ to __." "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary) covers differences in body size, price ranges, etc. As long as people don't get too much into obscure acronyms, or too use many assumptions so that their meaning is not clear. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
- Original Message - From: Lavolta Press<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Historical Costume<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books If more women felt OK about saying what they thought and doing what they wanted, maybe they'd stop trying to get everyone else to conform and lead more productive lives themselves. ** You're wrong--it's nothing whatsoever to do with someone's sex. Pontificating boors are pontificating boors regardless of whether they are male or female. LuAnn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Tone is not apparent on a list like this one, so I think it's important to spell out one's opinions and offer citations. You're talking about several different things here. Some people spend way too much effort worrying about "tone." Rational dispute--giving a different opinion, and backing it up with facts and/or analysis--is sensible. It often leads to interesting discussions, sheds new light on many things, etc. Emotionally based dispute--complaining that you just don't like the way someone phrased something, or that you just don't like them personally, is not rational dispute. It does not offer any information, or shed any new light on whatever subject is at hand, or give any real reason why someone disagrees with something. As for citations--Yes, they're a good thing, but an email list is not an academic article or dissertation. This is a recreational list. Not everyone has the time to write a detailed essay every time they want to discuss a topic, nor are their reference works always directly at hand. I'd say if and when people can and want to offer citations, great. But I don't think you can reasonably obligate people to provide them all the time in this context. Statements like those Fran mentions are sometimes used to emphasize that the writer is not saying "always" or "never". I don't think statements like "it's just my opinion" etc., are a good way to convey that. There are many other, shorter, and more precise ways to do it. For example: By XXX date, most American families owned a sewing machine. versus: By XXX date, families had a sewing machine, at least that's my opinion, of course you may disagree. It's a soft area of research in many ways, with new information found or new experiments attempted. History is a soft enough science that some data will never be available, and what there is can be interpreted in many different and equally plausible ways. But this is a given. Some of the statements are a shorthand way of saying "This is my own research/experience and others may find something different. I would be very interested to hear about any examples in XYZ culture for the years __ to __." If someone makes a statement of opinion, who else's would it be but their own? If they make a statement of fact, of course it's their own research, either from primary sources or from reading other people's research/secondary sources. And of course someone else may have found out some different facts or give a different opinion; maybe many people. This is a given, and constantly saying so is meaningless. If you have a definite area you're not sure about, or you want to solicit information on a certain topic, it's more meaningful to say, for example: "I got this information from my research on the clothing of middle-class families in New York City, but it is not necessarily true for all areas and social classes. I'm also interested in working-class families in New England, has anyone done any research on them?" Rather than: "Of course this is just my research, someone else may have found out something different, there are always exceptions, I always say never say never." "YMMV" (Your Mileage May Vary) covers differences in body size, price ranges, etc. As long as people don't get too much into obscure acronyms, or too use many assumptions so that their meaning is not clear. I think it's better to define what's being qualified: "These corset instructions work best for large busts" rather than: "These corset instructions work great for me, YMMV." Having said all that--I only write to spec if you pay me. And you couldn't possibly pay me enough to use any emoticon, or to say "never say never" or some of the other pat phrases I see. I suppose I can't expect anyone else to write to my specs (as above). But I also have the right to say things the way I think is best. Best, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I'm not following your argument. What exactly are you saying about women's roles here, at least middle-class women in modern America? Do you feel that women are now socialized to express themselves exactly the same way as men? Or if there are differences, what do you think they are? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ** You're wrong--it's nothing whatsoever to do with someone's sex. Pontificating boors are pontificating boors regardless of whether they are male or female. LuAnn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I ordered "Material culture in London in an age of transition: Tudor and Stuart period finds c. 1450 - c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan on 10/18/05 from DBBC "The Tutor Tailor" is due out in April. I ordered mine 1/30/06 directly from the author. I have not received either as yet. Beth At 03:06 PM 3/16/2006, you wrote: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:41:28 -0600 From: "E House" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
