Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
On Aug 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Rickard, Patty wrote: Comments? Thanks, Ceit To: Marche of Alderford Subject: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis! OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions. What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C. PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna Offhand, the cover image looks like it was taken from one of those Victorian costume of the ages books. But it's also worth noting that the concept of ca. 450 BC Frankish Celts is nonsensical (the Franks weren't around until much later than that and they weren't Celts). Neither observation provides any level of confidence in the historicity of the illustrations. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
I'm not SCA, don't know anything about Irish Celts in the 6C except that they were there. Having said that, Tom Tierney's colors should be in a little girls bedroom, all pastels, even when pastels are not the appropriate color. From my research, his designs come from other research books or original information (i.e., Godey's Ladies Magazine for Victorian dresses) and aren't too bad. I just can't abide his color schemes. LynnD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Rickard, Patty ricka...@mountunion.eduwrote: Comments? Thanks, Ceit To: Marche of Alderford Subject: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis! OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions. What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C. PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna ___ Please note that Mount Union's campus e-mail addresses have changed from usern...@muc.edu to usern...@mountunion.edu. The username has not changed - only the domain. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
Maybe the Victorian is ok, but the 18thC is bad. Take Tom Tierney with a huge bag of salt if you think he did actual research for the period in question, track down the sources. The more you rely on someone else's creative efforts, the farther you get from the facts. -Carol I'm not SCA, don't know anything about Irish Celts in the 6C except that they were there. Having said that, Tom Tierney's colors should be in a little girls bedroom, all pastels, even when pastels are not the appropriate color. From my research, his designs come from other research books or original information (i.e., Godey's Ladies Magazine for Victorian dresses) and aren't too bad. I just can't abide his color schemes. LynnD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Rickard, Patty ricka...@mountunion.eduwrote: Comments? Thanks, Ceit To: Marche of Alderford Subject: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis! OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions. What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C. PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
I think the same for the Elizabethan, Italian Renn and the medieval periods that I've seen. I have a couple just because, but I wouldn't even use them for the let's get you in the general area and then look for better examples type of search. They seem rather outlandish in most cases... alex who would only use these for halloween costumes when historical accuracy is no where in the picture So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:33 PM, aqua...@patriot.net wrote: Maybe the Victorian is ok, but the 18thC is bad. Take Tom Tierney with a huge bag of salt — if you think he did actual research for the period in question, track down the sources. The more you rely on someone else's creative efforts, the farther you get from the facts. -Carol I'm not SCA, don't know anything about Irish Celts in the 6C except that they were there. Having said that, Tom Tierney's colors should be in a little girls bedroom, all pastels, even when pastels are not the appropriate color. From my research, his designs come from other research books or original information (i.e., Godey's Ladies Magazine for Victorian dresses) and aren't too bad. I just can't abide his color schemes. LynnD On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Rickard, Patty ricka...@mountunion.eduwrote: Comments? Thanks, Ceit To: Marche of Alderford Subject: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis! OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions. What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C. PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
I like Tom's drawings for coloring in planned styles (if he's got something close to what I want to make), and letting my daughter color in copies for fun. But for a resource? Nope, not so much, not even for 16th century fashions as he, like Norris, edits his drawings. I'd rather go to the source, which I know for Celts can be difficult to find, especially before the 16th century. May I suggest Dress in Ireland by Mairead Dunlevy instead. One of the best books on Irish/Celtic clothing, and she does point to original sources for further research. There are a few other books, but I'd start there. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions. What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C. PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
I just looked up his webpage... http://www.tomtierney.com/index.htm He's in his 80's by now, majority of his career he was a fashion artist for various large east coast department stores (in the 50s-70s). The paper doll books were a late development. There's nothing in his bio that indicates any experience with academia, archaeology, costume history, history or even theatrical costume design. A quick scan of the covers of his works (which are voluminous!) -- very colorful, highly decorated, make Iris Brooke look like a paragon of research! He gets some of the silhouettes and main lines right, but the colors and patterns he fills in with are dizzying. chimene On Aug 19, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Alexandria Doyle wrote: I think the same for the Elizabethan, Italian Renn and the medieval periods that I've seen. I have a couple just because, but I wouldn't even use them for the let's get you in the general area and then look for better examples type of search. They seem rather outlandish in most cases... alex who would only use these for halloween costumes when historical accuracy is no where in the picture So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:33 PM, aqua...@patriot.net wrote: Maybe the Victorian is ok, but the 18thC is bad. Take Tom Tierney with a huge bag of salt — if you think he did actual research for the period in question, track down the sources. The more you rely on someone else's creative efforts, the farther you get from the facts. I'm not SCA, don't know anything about Irish Celts in the 6C except that they were there. Having said that, Tom Tierney's colors should be in a little girls bedroom, all pastels, even when pastels are not the appropriate color. From my research, his designs come from other research books or original information (i.e., Godey's Ladies Magazine for Victorian dresses) and aren't too bad. I just can't abide his color schemes. OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions. What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C. PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
Oh, dear! I have his Empire Fashions coloring book... I guess I should take it less seriously as a source of information. Emily Patricia Dunham wrote: I just looked up his webpage... http://www.tomtierney.com/index.htm He's in his 80's by now, majority of his career he was a fashion artist for various large east coast department stores (in the 50s-70s). The paper doll books were a late development. There's nothing in his bio that indicates any experience with academia, archaeology, costume history, history or even theatrical costume design. A quick scan of the covers of his works (which are voluminous!) -- very colorful, highly decorated, make Iris Brooke look like a paragon of research! He gets some of the silhouettes and main lines right, but the colors and patterns he fills in with are dizzying. chimene On Aug 19, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Alexandria Doyle wrote: I think the same for the Elizabethan, Italian Renn and the medieval periods that I've seen. I have a couple just because, but I wouldn't even use them for the let's get you in the general area and then look for better examples type of search. They seem rather outlandish in most cases... alex who would only use these for halloween costumes when historical accuracy is no where in the picture So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:33 PM, aqua...@patriot.net wrote: Maybe the Victorian is ok, but the 18thC is bad. Take Tom Tierney with a huge bag of salt — if you think he did actual research for the period in question, track down the sources. The more you rely on someone else's creative efforts, the farther you get from the facts. I'm not SCA, don't know anything about Irish Celts in the 6C except that they were there. Having said that, Tom Tierney's colors should be in a little girls bedroom, all pastels, even when pastels are not the appropriate color. From my research, his designs come from other research books or original information (i.e., Godey's Ladies Magazine for Victorian dresses) and aren't too bad. I just can't abide his color schemes. OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions. What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C. PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!
On Thursday 19 August 2010 1:46:44 pm Rickard, Patty wrote: Comments? Thanks, Ceit To: Marche of Alderford Subject: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis! OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions. What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C. PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna I wouldn't trust Tierney as far as I could throw him. His books never cite the sources of the illustrations he redraws (assuming he has redrawn in all cases instead of making something up based upon a written description, which I wouldn't bet against). He did a book on later medieval fashion where he misintreprets the long bead string worn by a woman in the Tres Riches Heures as a transparent fabric with a beaded edge. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com No one can make as disastrous a bad choice as a smart person, because they sell it to themselves really well.--Tobias Buckell ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
