Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar
I noticed at Pennsic that one bookseller, Poison Pen, I think, had digitized and copied McClintock onto CD. See http://www.scotpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=93 also available at http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/books.htm Glenn McDavid [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar
Hi. All of the currently known illos from the time in question can be found in either Dunlevy's book or in McClintock. I noticed at Pennsic that one bookseller, Poison Pen, I think, had digitized and copied McClintock onto CD. I did find conflicting information on a couple of things as well.. ..what sort of decoration was on the jackets - either embroidered, or braid that was sewn on? Depends on whether it is early or late 16th Cent. Differing illos show a change in the jacket decoration. The Kilcommon jacket had none, but then, it was the type seen in the 1580s illos, not the 1520s or later ones. The Irish chieftains (Ashmolean Museum) and DeHeers illos show decoration ..did the sleeves have ties only at the wrist or along the full length, or were they only worn loose. It looks like only loose or attached at the wrist (maybe not tied at all...) Depends once again on which illo or which artifact and what period. McClintock talks about buttons at the cuff in his description of the Kilcommon jacket. ..how was it held closed in front - by belt, ties, or a brooch? Looking at the 1540s one, (Ashmolean) it seems to be attached by a single button, tie or hook and eye, although none of these is evident in either the 1540s or de Heere (1670s, but purported to have been taken from the reign of Henry VIII) illos, except what might be a loop of something on one of the de Heere men. One of the later (1580s) illos (Derricke's) looks like there was a belt on one guy... but all of the rest, save the horseboy, seem to meet at the middle with no discernable attachment. ..did it overlap like a bathrobe or like a jacket when closed? It appears to have closed butted on both the earlier and later examples, although one image (the horseboy from a Derricke's engraving) looks overlapped. I realize the answers are subject to interpretation of research and there are virtually no extant examples, but any information is appreciated. The Kilcommon jacket looks very much like the Images of Ireland jackets (Derricke's). It lloks to me as if the standing ruff skirt evolved from the less stiff earlier version seen in the Ashmolean illo and the de Heere one. The folded back collar evokes a similar neckline seen at the end of the 15th/beginning of the 16th cents. H.F. McClintock Old Irish and Highland Dress Dundalgan Press 1950 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar
At 8:55 PM -0700 9/8/05, Kimiko Small wrote: And to add even more of a mess to the mix, various knowledgeable Irish re-enactors may or may not adhere to the theory that among the Irish, one's rank is seen by the number of colors worn in one's garment, up to seven colors, iirc, for the clan chief. How that many colors is shown on the garment is unclear. Maybe it was the colors woven into a multi-colored garment, or maybe it was the embroidery or trimmings added, or who really knows. This is supposedly based on Brehan (sp?) laws that I think actually date to an earlier time frame, but I do not claim any knowledge of those laws or how applicable they are to any given time frame. The color thing is a medieval legend about events thousands of years earlier -- in other words, about as relevant to late medieval Irish clothing as Old Testament stories are to late medieval Irish clothing. Specifically, the number of colors = ranks theory among modern historical re-creators has its origins in entries in the Irish Annals of the Four Masters which claimed that Eochaidh Eadghadhach in the year of the world 3664 -- that is, about 1530 *B.C.* -- ordered that the colours of clothes worn should denote the wearer's rank in society: 'one colour in the clothes of slaves, two in the clothes of soldiers, three in the clothes of goodly heroes or young lords of territories, six in the clothes of ollavs [professional men], seven in the clothes of kings and queens.' [Dunlevy, _Dress in Ireland_ p. 16] However, this is purely legendary, recorded millennia after the events supposedly happened, and even if taken as historically accurate is talking about a time period about three _millennia_ before the era depicted in the woodcuts discussed above. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar
Thank you Sharon for clarifying that for me. I never did know when it was, or even that I had a copy of it in my own book (really gotta read the earlier sections again). Now I know better, and hence, can do better. Kimiko At 07:31 PM 9/9/2005, you wrote: The color thing is a medieval legend about events thousands of years earlier -- in other words, about as relevant to late medieval Irish clothing as Old Testament stories are to late medieval Irish clothing. Specifically, the number of colors = ranks theory among modern historical re-creators has its origins in entries in the Irish Annals of the Four Masters which claimed that Eochaidh Eadghadhach in the year of the world 3664 -- that is, about 1530 *B.C.* -- ordered that the colours of clothes worn should denote the wearer's rank in society: 'one colour in the clothes of slaves, two in the clothes of soldiers, three in the clothes of goodly heroes or young lords of territories, six in the clothes of ollavs [professional men], seven in the clothes of kings and queens.' [Dunlevy, _Dress in Ireland_ p. 16] However, this is purely legendary, recorded millennia after the events supposedly happened, and even if taken as historically accurate is talking about a time period about three _millennia_ before the era depicted in the woodcuts discussed above. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
