Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
--- Marie Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Widows would usually wear mourning until a second marriage, or for the rest of their lives. One way that a widow could signal a willingness to marry was to put off the black. Although it was socially expected that even a young woman would wear mourning for a husband for at least two years, one year of deepest mourning and at least one year of secondary. (and here I might be slipping into Victorian custom, so I'll stop.) Yes, I think you are. That doesn't sound Elizabethan to me. What I was just reading recently indicates that a month (a period called a month's mind) was considered entirely appropriate for mourning a spouse. Men and women both were expected to remarry, especially if there were children involved. This is from David Cressy's Birth, Marriage, and Death: Ritual, Religion, and the Life-Cycle in Tudor and Stuart England, Oxford University Press, 1997. MaggiRos The Elizabethan World is at http://elizabethan.org coming soon in paperback! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
Jane wrote: A question has come up on another list about mourning colors in Europe during the Renaissance. Black was obviously worn for fashion, not necessarily mourning. Some sources say that white was worn for mourning in France. What say you? I only know that there's a famous portrait of Mary Queen of Scots en deuil blanc (in white mourning) for her first husband. Kate Bunting Cataloguing Data Quality Librarian University of Derby ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
Here is the portrait of Mary in the French White Mourning veil. Note that she is wearing a simple French cut gown in black? beneath it. Mari http://www.nationalgalleries.org/media_collection/6/PG%20186.jpg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
The white pleated wimple (like in this portrait) was worn in Ireland by widows in the 16th century. Kass http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/ Looking for the perfect gift for the RH fan on your list? Try a RH Gift Certificate http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/index.php?s=c=123d=160e=f=g=w=21 q=1p=360r=Y . They never expire! http://reconstructinghistory.com http://community.livejournal.com/rh_community/ http://kass-rants.livejournal.com http://www.reconstructinghistory.blogspot.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marie Stewart Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 8:57 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe Here is the portrait of Mary in the French White Mourning veil. Note that she is wearing a simple French cut gown in black? beneath it. Mari http://www.nationalgalleries.org/media_collection/6/PG%20186.jpg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
Hm that's interesting. The white pleated wimple (like in this portrait) was worn in Ireland by widows in the 16th century. Kass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
Ireland tended to be about 50 years behind the times as far as fashion went. So it was always assumed that this widow's wimple was just a hold-over from the late medieval period. But the portrait of Mary Queen of Scots you showed makes me think that it wasn't so much an Irish-only thing. Kass http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/ Looking for the perfect gift for the RH fan on your list? Try a RH Gift Certificate http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/index.php?s=c=123d=160e=f=g=w=21 q=1p=360r=Y . They never expire! http://reconstructinghistory.com http://community.livejournal.com/rh_community/ http://kass-rants.livejournal.com http://www.reconstructinghistory.blogspot.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marie Stewart Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 11:42 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe Hm that's interesting. The white pleated wimple (like in this portrait) was worn in Ireland by widows in the 16th century. Kass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
I'm wondering if there is a Roman-Catholic / Gallic link... On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Kass McGann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ireland tended to be about 50 years behind the times as far as fashion went. So it was always assumed that this widow's wimple was just a hold-over from the late medieval period. But the portrait of Mary Queen of Scots you showed makes me think that it wasn't so much an Irish-only thing. Kass http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/ Looking for the perfect gift for the RH fan on your list? Try a RH Gift Certificate http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/index.php?s=c=123d=160e=f=g=w=21 q=1p=360r=Y . They never expire! http://reconstructinghistory.com http://community.livejournal.com/rh_community/ http://kass-rants.livejournal.com http://www.reconstructinghistory.blogspot.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marie Stewart Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 11:42 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe Hm that's interesting. The white pleated wimple (like in this portrait) was worn in Ireland by widows in the 16th century. Kass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
It's certainly possible. Kass http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/ Looking for the perfect gift for the RH fan on your list? Try a RH Gift Certificate http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/index.php?s=c=123d=160e=f=g=w=21 q=1p=360r=Y . They never expire! http://reconstructinghistory.com http://community.livejournal.com/rh_community/ http://kass-rants.livejournal.com http://www.reconstructinghistory.blogspot.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marie Stewart Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 12:11 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe I'm wondering if there is a Roman-Catholic / Gallic link... On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Kass McGann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ireland tended to be about 50 years behind the times as far as fashion went. So it was always assumed that this widow's wimple was just a hold-over from the late medieval period. But the portrait of Mary Queen of Scots you showed makes me think that it wasn't so much an Irish-only thing. Kass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
(Hi, Kass!) I don't know, lots of the REST of the Irish garments we see in period art are a lot old. I think the wimple is just a wimple, though maybe you would be more likely to see an old widow-lady wearing one. The Chief's wife in Derrick's Banquet is wearing a wimple. They are still wearing turbans and short veils and cotehardie, nearly, as well as the fact that the identifying cultural garment for men is still a dress. (You can only call it that if you have been married to someone who wears one. - I made that up.) Regina in L.A. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Mourning in Renaissance Europe
In the 16th century I can tell you this much. Black was worn for initial mourning, the first year or two, and is associated with deepest mourning. A cap of linen with a pleated veil was typical in France, and that would usually be white. Deepest mourning was typically depicted by all black, the white pleated veil of France is one exception that I know of. For secondary mourning other colors were deep grey, white, deep purple and black. Henry VIII wore deepest mourning for a full year after the death of Jane Seymour. Phillip the Bold (IIRC) wore deepest mourning for his father from his early 30s? until his own death. Mary Queen of Scots wore deepest mourning for at least a full year after the death of Frances. Widows would usually wear mourning until a second marriage, or for the rest of their lives. One way that a widow could signal a willingness to marry was to put off the black. Although it was socially expected that even a young woman would wear mourning for a husband for at least two years, one year of deepest mourning and at least one year of secondary. (and here I might be slipping into Victorian custom, so I'll stop.) That's the best I can do off the top of my head. Bridgette. On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:28 AM, Jane Pease [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A question has come up on another list about mourning colors in Europe during the Renaissance. Black was obviously worn for fashion, not necessarily mourning. Some sources say that white was worn for mourning in France. What say you? Thanks for your input, Jane In No VA ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
