Re: [Hampshire] Portsmouth Linux Users Group meeting
On 19/07/13 09:43, Lisi wrote: Hants LUG members would be very welcome at the PLUG meeting tomorrow. We will be meeting from 13:00 to 17:30 tomorrow at the Broadoaks social club in Hilsea: http://www.broadoaksocialclub.net/where.html I apologise for the last minute notification. Forwarded message: On Thursday 18 July 2013 22:19:03 Emma Urquhart wrote: Hello everyone Our next meeting will be held at the Broadoaks Social Club* from 13:00 till 17:30 this coming Saturday - 20th July Normally Lisi announces this but I thought seeing as it was getting close and there was no reminder I would do so. ;-) We don't have a talker unless Lisi has managed to get anyone? So sorry everyone. I got back from holiday on Monday evening and went straight intro a domestic drama. It is not secret. In fact, I will happily bore the socks off anyone who is intrepid enough to ask, but I don't want to put it into print. I really am sorry. I had been trying to get a speaker, but my first choice couldn't manage Saturdays, and I then retreated into my personal problems. There is no excuse. I have fallen down on my duties. It won't, I hope, happen again. John did you manage to get that cable to plug your raspberry pi into the projector? Might be interesting for people to see it in action? I was in fact as my second choice looking for a speaker on Raspberry Pi, and we have had two very successful talks by members, so Jon and Raspberry Pi is a _very_ good idea. :-) I have a, so far, unused Raspberry Pi. I'll bring it and its cables. I haven't got a mouse and keyboard for it, and I gather it is fussy about rodents and things. I'll bring a mouse, keyboard and USB hub, but I don't know whether they will work with the Raspberry Pi, particularly as the hub is unpowered. So perhaps other people could also bring some, in the hope that something will work. I have two memory cards for it. One preinstalled with XBMC (unexamined) and a blank one on which I intend to install Raspbian. So after Jon's demonstration, we could all have a nice play. Lisi Don't send me stuff I unsubscribed some time ago I don't want to have to put up with being bored Especially by this person, who has a mania for being in charge of everything -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Windows 8 + Dual Booting
On Mon, 2013-04-15 at 23:25 +0100, Daniel Llewellyn wrote: ( snip ) Well, someone, somewhere has to pay something, somehow, or many people simply wouldn't produce 'free' (beer) software. * Just look at reboot. pro: the devs. there don't charge, but do their self-imposed tasks gratis. Doubtless, they are in paid employment in a company, so do their creative work, in their spare time, purely for the love of it - which, to my mind, is a perfectly good arrangement ( I, too, did the same, for many years ). I would argue that it's entirely fair to charge for tech support in resolving device-specific knotty problems - eg. a dd if imaging process, which screwed up my replication of dual-boot partitions onto a bigger HD. Quite happy to pay for Tech Support, having been in that business myself. Indeed, I just took out another support contract - this time, on a newly-acquired dual-boot Mac box, to overcome presenting yaboot Apple partition problems. But software is only really a toolbox, and the tools should be free: it's the labour that.to me, is valuable, almost beyond price. The human input should rightly be valued - rather than the tools that do ( - or don't effectively do - ) the job they are developed for. Working in a software development house, I saw the human contribution costed into overall Project costs, then recoverable through a hardware implementation, powered by the associated software. But the software was only ever regarded as a form of activation, of the far more important hardware being submitted, from proof-of-concept, to prototyping. This I consider a sounder basis for costing, pricing, fundamental IT investment, overall. Dual-booting has been made more difficult than it inherently needs to be, through deliberate software development to inhibit that capability; accordingly, some hardware now needs a kind of team input, from more than one head, to get it going properly .. L -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] Like SARDU, MULTIBOOT, or similar, but from USB-HD, not just from Flash Drive
I've long wanted the facility to build multi-distro, not from USB, but from HD, in a way not tied to the developer's financial needs for sponsorship. Here's a new reboot.pro implementation, which covers the ground broken by SARDU, MULTIBOOT ( on SourceForge ), a few notable others https://sites.google.com/a/rmprepusb.com/www/tutorials/72---easyboot---a-grubdos-multiboot-drive-that-is-easy-to-maintain/e2bv1 Cf. http://reboot.pro/ - currently, one of the most exciting sites, for all those having to do catastrophe/disaster recovery, rebuilds, reinstalls .. L -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Free to a good home: back issues of Linux Format magazine with DVDs
On 15/04/13 09:35, Ian Park wrote: I've been instructed by Her Who Must Be Obeyed to turn out some of my accumulated computer stuff; as a starter, I'm offering a bit over 120 back numbers of Linux Format magazine (issues 14 and 18 - 140), together with most of the DVDs (I can lay my hands easily on those for issues 21 - 110, and I can probably roust out those for the later issues). Clearly, posting the magazines won't make sense, but anyone who'd like them is welcome to contact me off-list to arrange collection. To save you asking where I live, the postcode is RG14 7JJ... Ian Surely it would make sense, to locate this quantity of useful reference material, in a LUG Library ? Could HANTS LUG create such an archival resource ? Or, failing that, even donate to a local IT Dept @ a school/college Library ? L -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Windows 8 + Dual Booting
On 15/04/13 23:25, Daniel Llewellyn wrote: On 15 April 2013 23:11, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com mailto:l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 14/04/13 22:38, Daniel Llewellyn wrote: On Sunday, 14 April 2013, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote: (snip) Win_8 ( = a Cloud implementation - hence it resides on a M$ Server on their own proprietory WAN somewhere ) Linux, or any flavour of BSD, or other UNIX eg. SUN/Oracle Solaris 10 ( 11 is a Cloud version ! ) ( Snip ) ( If that ain't surveillance, I don't know what is ) I'm no windows lover, but I still think this is misinformation. Windows 8 will function perfectly fine without touching any cloud or internet service. Thanx for forwarding. In 2005, advance intelligence from the business world, officially advized the few interested in future SysAdministration, that: 1.IT OSs were to be moved online, in stages, gradually accustoming consumers to the idea of Software-as-a-Service; 2.Removal of user choice, back to manufacturer control ( remember diskless workstations ? ) was the desired goal; 3.Western nations' military were to dry-run the process, through consortia gradually assuming control over all aspects of e-comms; 4.The eventual aim was cluster-controlled virtualized OS access, with user requests for services, obtained solely through a browser ( cf. Google OS ). This trend is what I'm signalling. UBUNTU has partially adopted the chimaera, which Linus himself decried as unnecessary, when it surfaced .. It's not what Win 8/Solaris 11 does now ( partial cloud ): they are steps on the way to progressively decreasing user control over the OS L -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] Fwd: amnesia-news Digest, Vol 27, Issue 1
Dear All New Tails out last Sunday .. L Original Message Subject:amnesia-news Digest, Vol 27, Issue 1 Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:00:02 +0100 From: amnesia-news-requ...@boum.org Reply-To: amnesia-n...@boum.org To: amnesia-n...@boum.org Send amnesia-news mailing list submissions to amnesia-n...@boum.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/amnesia-news or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to amnesia-news-requ...@boum.org You can reach the person managing the list at amnesia-news-ow...@boum.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of amnesia-news digest... Today's Topics: 1. Tails 0.17.1 is out (Tails - News) -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:23:45 - From: Tails - News r...@boum.org To: amnesia-n...@boum.org Subject: [tails-news] Tails 0.17.1 is out Message-ID: 20130323173503.CAE5544193@localhost Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tails, The Amnesic Incognito Live System, version 0.17.1, is out. All users must upgrade as soon as possible. # Changes Notable user-visible changes include: * Iceweasel * Upgrade to Iceweasel 17.0.4esr-0+tails1~bpo60+1. * Hardware support * Update Linux to 3.2.39-2, that It includes better support for graphics adapter, backported from Linux 3.4.29. * Temporarily drop the Rendition display driver. * Bugfixes * Remove Indymedia IRC account, until we ship a version of Pidgin with SASL support. See the [online Changelog][1] for technical details. # Known issue The VirtualBox support in Tails 0.17.1 is not as good as it could be. # I want to try it / to upgrade! See the [Getting started][2] page. As no software is ever perfect, we maintain a list of [problems that affects the last release of Tails][3]. # What's coming up? The next Tails release (0.17.2) is scheduled for April 9. It will be a minor, bugfix only one. Have a look to our [roadmap][4] to see where we are heading to. Would you want to help? As explained in our [how to contribute documentation][5], there are many ways **you** can contribute to Tails. If you want to help, come talk to us! [1]: http://git.immerda.ch/?p=amnesia.git;a=blob_plain;f=debian/changelog;hb=refs/tags/0.17.1 [2]: https://tails.boum.org/news/../getting_started/index.en.html [3]: https://tails.boum.org/news/../support/known_issues/index.en.html [4]: https://tails.boum.org/contribute/roadmap/ [5]: https://tails.boum.org/news/../contribute/index.en.html URL: https://tails.boum.org/news/version_0.17.1/index.en.html -- ___ amnesia-news mailing list amnesia-n...@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/amnesia-news End of amnesia-news Digest, Vol 27, Issue 1 *** -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] [OT] Friday Fun Question
On 15/03/13 09:55, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote: On 15/03/13 08:54, Sean Gibbins wrote: Okay, a bit off the wall this, but does Tor require a reboot, or indeed many reboots, to install it under Linux? A virtual pat on the back to anyone who can identify why I might be asking this question, with the clue that it doesn't relate to any real-world Tor installation! Sean ( snip ) Of course, if you want to be really inventive, try running Tails; or Tin Hat ( it takes an age to download ) Runs from DVD and autodetects your router connection, seamlessly Latest versions produced in February this year .. Les -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] [OT] Friday Fun Question
On 15/03/13 08:54, Sean Gibbins wrote: Okay, a bit off the wall this, but does Tor require a reboot, or indeed many reboots, to install it under Linux? A virtual pat on the back to anyone who can identify why I might be asking this question, with the clue that it doesn't relate to any real-world Tor installation! Sean No. And you don't install it. Download it onto your Desktop, unpack, click into the folder created, and create a link to the Start_Tor runfile: cut paste that onto your desktop Click that, the network tunnelling through the relays, will take place almost immediately Happy anonymizing ! Leshy -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] Fwd: Re: Linux Mint Maya 13 Cinnamon
Sorry forgot to copy y'all in on this. Gratitude unending .. Les Original Message Subject:Re: [Hampshire] Linux Mint Maya 13 Cinnamon Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:17:24 + From: Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com Reply-To: l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com Organization: Book Writing To: Richard Bensley richardbens...@gmail.com On 28/02/13 09:54, Richard Bensley wrote: On 27 February 2013 23:20, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 l.kobierni...@ntlworld.com wrote: ( snip ) I think this is what you are looking for, Xsession management: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomXSession Wonderful ! Custom scripting, to control exactly what loads. Just what I needed for the Mint_boxx .. Millions of thanx, Les -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] Linux Mint Maya 13 Cinnamon
Hi all Installed a KDE on this, just to see if it was more usable - but unfortunately it seems much more machine-like robotic, now ! Can't see a clear way to switch between that, back to my preferred version of desktop, Cinnamon ( a customized Gnome ) Could anyone please advize how to ? ( Easily done in Ubuntu: at logon time ) but alas, no instructions found on the net Be very grateful for your help, Les -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] The Future of Linux/Career Advice
Trouble with all this advocacy of new devices, is, that their manufacturers don't intend you to use them above 2 years - their rated lifecycle, at best. They expect you to buy something ever-newer, bi-ennially. Which keeps 'em in business. They realized that servers, towers laptops were lasting too long ( MAC: 8-10 years, at best; M$ WinDoze boxes, up to 4-6 years ). Support contracts were a loss-leader, too: stock costs were absorbing space and costing them money they wanted spent on chasing rainbows ( new projects ). A market glut resulted, so manufacturers coped, by withdrawing from the shops, the availability of spare parts, forcing new sales on, using Just-in-Time management practices. Clever - but transparently obvious. Software isn't really the focus of the problem. Hardware is. The revolution in new device ranges, is to keep the money coming in from the public. And to ensure the devices exasperate users, as new developments outmode them .. Device lifecycles are being progressively shortened. It happened at first with cars, then household appliances, and now, e-machines. If you buy top-of-the-range, in new devices, you can only get short-life products. SUN boxes were the best in the world, after the Apple Mac Pro range. So Oracle killed them off -- dispersing the Solaris development teams. Same with the older IBM tall towers: the engineering quality, far surpassed the plastic casings of today. Built-to-last, has almost completely disappeared from IT There are too many boxes out there, and the pressure is on, to force their withdrawal, as obsolete. But many of them aren't. They can be recycled, with good software ( Linux/BSD ), extending their useability on, until the motherboards fail. All this portable-device mania, is simply scraching an itch of anxiety. Its not an optimal operating environment for serious work, research, design, copywriting etc. The devices are too small, fragile, insufficiently robust for prolonged usage. Laptops overheat, and burn out drives. SysAdmins are told not to support models the manufacturer deems obsolete on their corporate networks. BYOD is a hackers' paradise, so eavesdroppers can hook in, remotely, reading screen emission broadcasts, onto their own. No, mate. No i-devices or clones thereof, for me. Give me a G5 Apple Mac Pro, dual-partitioned with Linux, any day. I'll still be using it, reconditioned, long after the Chromebooks, i-Pads, Androids/i-Phones and OEM lookalikes, are gone and forgotten. As for phones, there's one on my wall .. Les -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] The future of Linux / career advice
On 13/02/13 16:31, Ally Biggs wrote: Do you guys ever think there will be a day that Linux will be as popular as Windows in the desktop market. Personally I can't see this happening anytime soon. This isn't a personal attack on Linux just want to get some thoughts and inspiration. I use both Windows and Linux have a strong interest in both but currently am having a tug of war with my thought patterns career wise. The majority of my thoughts are saying focus on learning Linux starting with Linux+ with the eventual aim of going for the RHCSE. The other half is saying go down the Microsoft route taking a client exam and going for the server 2012 admin certs. Has anyone been in a similar situation? I would say that I enjoy Linux more the whole Open source ethos, I actually feel like I am learning when using the cli as opposed to clicking my way through the GUI in Windows. Making the transition from Windows to Linux was challenging initially I probably will continue to learn Linux (Redhat, Debian) for server related tasks and use Win 7 for client tasks. The thing which bothers me though about Linux ok it's free and if you have the skills you can do great things but why isn't it being adopted more for everyday use. Also why don't the developers standardise a distribution for the home user i.e same package manager and packages. The problem with desktop Linux I think is when the shit hits the fan and something needs to be configured or a driver needs to be added your average user isn't going to want to sit typing commands in a terminal or spending hours finding the solution into a community. The other problem I found is the community alot of people expect you to be some kind of command line genius who is capable of reciting the whole encyclopaedia of man pages. So when you ask for help or guidance you often get a dismissive response. Documentation is horrendous aswell especially if you are making the transition from Windows. Pick up a starting to learn Linux book and a couple of pages in you end up with the worlds worst headache. So how did you guys learn Linux? Has anyone else made the transition from Windows? Or what are the key areas to focus on to develop a good foundation. Need some inspiration if I go down the Linux route would I be missing out on much? Please help me resolve the tug of war it is driving me mad :) Sent from my iPhone Yes indeed. I chose hardware specialization, reasoning that all kinds of software is developed, to run on hardware, which is primary, and relatively easily replaceable, eg. if your OS of choice, won't wear a particular graphics card, or the fixed disc is too small .. So a hardware specialist basically builds rebuilds, until they find a good mix, and matches the software to that. It's the hobbyist's approach, originating in garages and sheds Linux is growing - but this is not helped -- rather, hindered, on the one hand, by egotistical showoff-exclusivity, and on the other hand, by the lack of community-minded publicists, prepared to give their precious, irreplaceable time effort to helping Win-addicts kick their habit, for a far smoother, faster, more device-friendly Linux OS, which doesn't burn out the hardware. The community of Linux users need to move beyond cleverness, and obsession with technicity, back to a humane concern and fellow-feeling for the as-yet ignorant .. We were all there once. But dependency is crippling. So we climbed out of that pit Last week a massive nationwide hacking campaign erupted. The only platform seriously affected, was the M$ WinDoze one. Linux installs seem, so far, relatively unaffected. Whether this is because journalling filesystems are less well-known to the hacktivistes, is not yet clear. But the message is: the OS of the millions, is grossly insecure. Routers notwithstanding ! Files vanished from drives. Enormous clusters of unmoveable files had appeared, and were detected. An IDS is now essential, if a Win system is connected to the net. And that will slow everything to a crawl .. Everyone I know, is in process of being warned to ditch their Win installs, repair immediately to Linux. ( Free help is gradually being provided ) It is unclear whether the corporates have grasped this. Having been asked, government doesn't seem to know who is responsible. Investigations are currently under way. The findings may well be kept under wraps. SysAdmins have difficult choices facing them. Do they continue supporting what are effectively, legacy ( inherently-insecure ) OSS, acquired in cheap deals, or do they advocate more secure systems, hardening them with encryptions, and all the other paraphernalia of statutory Paranoia Inc. ? About a decade ago, CRYPTOME posted details of several of the NSA hacker holes in the Win registry. None of this ever seemed to affect corporate policies of slavish adherence to M$ Win. One is tempted
Re: [Hampshire] Scamming call
On 25/01/13 12:46, Roger Munford wrote: I just received a scamming call from Asia and spent some time playing gullible while trying to get my wife to phone the police/BT with a hope that the call could be traced and stopped. However the police, actionfraud operator told that there was nothing that could be done and BT operator services aren't working today. I managed to get the dog barking and told Jeff that I had to go and he could call me this afternoon. Is there anything further that I can do? Roger This has become big business for the criminal underworld - so much so, that the Police unit which was formed to act against it, was disbanded, and its role ended. As far as I know, there has been NFA on this kind of thing, since 1999. The focus is on the big boys - not small fry, who only carry out the orders of their seniors. There is just too much activity in that sphere, for the agencies to cope with. We have been abandoned to suffer it on our own ! Sorry to give you the bad news, L -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] For anyone still on UBUNTU 10.04.x
Dear all KSPLICE delivered a number of bug-fixes to UBUNTU 10.04 with revisions, which resulted in nearly double the prior optimal throughput on copying archives over to external housing devices Fantastic work. Back-maintaining a seasoned, high-usability, easily-configurable distro, is truly praiseworthy This is how a distro gets a good name ! L -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] For those using Android Phones .. further cross-platform compatibility
Dear All *Paragon NTFS HFS+ for Android, with Free Lifetime Upgrade* Forget about incompatibility issues ! Get unlimited access to the most widespread file systems in the world on your smartphone by mounting USB sticks or SD cards formatted to Windows NTFS or Mac OS X HFS+. Now you can easily copy, transfer and modify data previously unsupported by Android volumes. *The latest edition includes the industry's first NTFS and HFS+ partition automounting feature, enabling users to mount partitions automatically when new media is connected or upon booting the Android-based device. * Website for Android install: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.paragon.mounter Registration website for lifetime upgrades: http://www.paragon-software.com/registration/ntfs_hfs_android_free_lifetime_upg * To be seen as a PARAGON user, you may need to download register at least 1 piece of software, creating an account on the PARAGON website ( eg. perhaps installing Paragon Partition Manager FREE version, on a client's dual-booting machine ) Paragon FREE Products Website: http://www.paragon-software.com/free/ L -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] Rejoinder to CIO
Dear All There have been numerous threatening moves made by the supporting legions of Ignoranti, trying to put the fear of God into the IT industry, since 2008-2009, when the MoneyBags decided, finally, and completely, to impoverish us all, by winding down the White ( Production ) economy, in order finally to substitute fot it, the Black ( Criminal) one .. It's simply a key part of the ongoing programme of squeeze the masses, feed the results to Greed__Money Inc. For sheer cheek, the latest pronouncement is hard to beat: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cio-insights/it-departments-warned-evolve-or-die/39749435?tag=nl.e019s_cid=e019 My comment: *Who's irrelevant ? * l.kobiernicki@... http://www.techrepublic.com/members/profile/5190793 less than a minute ago Just let 'em try getting their work done dusted without us. Then we'll soon see who's needed, and why. As for all these bums-on-seats healthcare pros, in whose interests it remains, for people to get/remain sick, to be medicated up to their eyeballs, they're not aiding healing: far from it ! They're part of a keeping-us-all-ill industry, feeding us inorganics, which we can't digest, but which maintains the cash flows of the allopaths. Increasingly, the big batallions ( MNCs, international NGOs, all the other dinosaurs ) prove themselves not only unnecessary, but parasitical on the people co-opted to service them ( eg. IT, secretaries, all those others impressed into their service ). What's needed is a purge of all the freeloaders, jargon-munchers, other parasites gobbling up all the goodies they can, while the poor people struggle fail. Without IT, they're dead in the water. Don't try to frighten us; we're onto you: we've understood what your priorities are. When did you last do something useful, necessary, absolutely crucial ? IT keeps this whole juggernaut rolling. When you limber up to fire us, the whole awful momentum slows, and your end approaches that much sooner. Get real. We don't need you. YOU need US ! Without us, you can't continue to spout your guff, threaten, and otherwise attitudinize. Without our support, you'd just be a lone fantasist, dreaming power. ** Sorry, but this Essex County Council CIO David Wilde, really got my goat. I spent years servicing the monoliths ( government, multinationals etc. ), only to be threatened into fearfulness with the loss of a job. Stuff 'em ! And mount 'em in a Museum of Obsoletes/Unnecessaries .. End_Products nobody wants, or needs Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Customer service experience: Skoda website
On 27/07/12 14:52, Tony Wood wrote: After my Octavia was routinely serviced, Skoda wrote to me asking if I was a happy bunny. They asked that I complete an on-line questionnaire about my 'recent experience with Garland Motors'. I spent 15 minutes filling in the pages and then clicked 'EXIT' - which seems to be the point at which replies are submitted. Anyway nothing happened; the button 'clicked' but it all just sat there. It won't accept entries from Linux OS !! I had a look at the 'Customer Service - Contact Us' part of the 'skoda.co.uk' website and got an error message when I tried to submit something. It seems that their Market Research company 'Maritz Research' uses Microsoft software. I had a moan at Skoda about it by telephone (not via their 0870- number: 01908 601601 does the trick) but think this failing needs further publicity. Not the only site PARAGON's Facebook link does the same stupid stuff, when trying to activate their Rescue Kit 11, etc. Companies don't count on there being techies among the people, with more brains than their kowtowing-to-M$ management staffers Follow the money is merely stupid, encouraging the undervaluation of reflective, thoughtful individuals, with far more sense than the corporates can ever hope to command .. L -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Spinning rust
On 19/07/12 13:11, Peter Andrijeczko wrote: (snip ) Can't help with the local sellers though, I would also go to Novatech if I wanted to do a collect, otherwise I tend to use Ebuyer. Regards Peter Any suggestions for a SATA drive in the 1 TB size that will last longer than 30 seconds and costs less than a fortune? Since all the smaller drive firms got gobbled up I've only got Seagate and Western Digital to choose from as far as I can tell. Other than Novatech any other local firms to look at to buy disks from? -- Adam Trickett Overton, HANTS, UK Like dreams, statistics are a form of wish fulfilment. -- Jean Baudrillard -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk mailto:Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- (snip) -- What about RS - in Southampton ? Or Maplins - in Portsmouth ? Novatech once sold us 150 ECS motherboard-based boxes, quite a number of which had a faulty 2nd channel, so I ended up having to be creative with getting all the drives connected .. ( ECS is a cheap cheerful copy of MSI ) I heard someone bought a Win_7 box from them, who when he asked how to get familiar with it ( he was used to XP ), got the brush-off, in very short order - they refused to help him, in any way To circumvent this deadlock, I'm going to help him migrate to a Linux OS, with help/support from/through our Ports LUG No need to leave anyone out in the cold, like the box-shifters seem to like to do ! Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] [OT] Citrix
On 19/07/12 09:20, Rob Malpass wrote: Hi all For my own education please, I need someone to explain a potentially far reaching decision made by our IT people at work ( snip ) So what is Citrix and can anyone see why they may have set things up in this way? Cheers Rob -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- Hi Mate http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/Citrix_server.html Home http://www.webopedia.com/ Citrix server Citrix server A server solution that uses Microsoft Terminal Services http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/Windows_terminal.html software to deliver Windows http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/Windows.html applications to PCs, Apple Macintosh computers, X terminals and UNIX workstations. This enables users of those systems to access and use those programs which are available to those using the Windows operating system. Citrix servers use two technologies; WinFrame http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/WinFrame.html and Independent Computing Architecture (ICA). /See ICA http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/I/ICA.html. See also WinFrame http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/WinFrame.html. / //What this means, is that your diagnosis of being compelled to revert to dumb terminal access, is correct. The companies advocating it, seem to believe that with the increasing power of CPUs, they can persuade businesses, that user access to the server delivering the virtualized desktop, will be swift ( I wouldn't count on it, myself ) See also https://www.citrix.com/virtualization/desktop-virtualization.html ( not very informative ) and http://www.defcon1.org/citrix.html ( this is quite an old site, but fairly explanatory ) * _What is Citrix?_* Simply put, Citrix Metaframe allows you to run applications you have at work from anywhere in the world or on your local area network (LAN). ( snip ) It does not matter if you're using a dialup modem, DSL, ISDN, or T1 to access citrix remotely. How does Citrix work? We begin with either an enhanced version of Windows NT 4.0 (Terminal Server Edition) or Windows 2000 with Terminal Services Installed. Then, we add Citrix Metaframe. This product allows multiple users to run multiple applications on the Citrix Server at the same time. When you run applications on the Citrix Server the screen shots are sent to your computer and, in return, your keyboard input and mouse movements are sent to the Citrix Server. How much bandwidth does it take? The average connection uses 10K to 20K of bandwidth per connection. Hence, a 28K dial-up modem is enough to access a Citrix Server. What kind of operating system can I use to access Citrix? DOS, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows CE (Thin Client), Windows NT 4.0, Windows 2000, Unix, and Macintosh. How fast of a computer do I need to access Citrix? Virtually any personal computer can access Citrix (e.g., 386 to Pentium 4). In fact, it does not matter how fast your computer is, it will run with virtually the same speed on Citrix. How do you get additional information about Citrix? www.bctinc.com/ http://www.bctinc.com/ So - CITRIX virtualizes the entitre desktop. It's a way of lockdown-controlling users, like the diskless workstations, thin clients madness, of the remoter past ( late 1980s- early 1990s ), which wasn't over-popular with either the users - or ourselves ( SysAdmins ) Enterprizes seem to be being pushed by the money funding IT, into depriving users of their present ability to do things their own way, through Cloud, Software-as-a-Service, or this CITRIX stuff ( which the military is quite understandably, rather big on ) If there's a way of avoiding CITRIX, for the Legacy Apps. you've got, you may have to make a Business Case, for them to continue as they are, as a statutory exception, thus preserving the users' current workflows, using the enterprize's existing Business Continuity model .. Otherwise they probably will slow to a crawl. Red Adair: I baint but got 2 speeds. If they don't like this one [ slow ], then they sure as hell, won't like the other one .. Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants
Re: [Hampshire] Ubuntu Unity Tutorial video
On 15/07/12 12:15, Alan Pope wrote: Hey, I finally got around to making a simple intro to the Unity desktop. Some of you may find it useful for other new users. Feedback welcome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA9EHaNc2VI Cheers, Thank you Will certainly check it out L -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] More free to a good home
On 06/07/12 17:03, Paul Tansom wrote: I'm nearing the end of the main bulk of my clearout now, but have a few more bits on offer: o. 24 port 10/100 switch, 19 rack mount o. Lexmark Optra C yellow toner (new I think) o. Lexmark Optra SC 1275 magenta toner (open packet, but I believe it is new) o. Dell Dimension 9100 system unit (no HD or memory, but has a card reader, graphics card and firewire installed - missing drive bay blanking plates - 3GHz P4 I think) o. Unbranded system unit (no HD or memory, but has CD writer, Athlon 2400+ or thereabouts I think) o. 5 19 rack mount cases, big and heavy with 300W ATX PSUs and PATA caddies (although 2 short on a full set) and 2 2.5 adapter kits. I may put these up on eBay again this weekend, but since the only interest I've had is from people wanting them couriered and that just doesn't seem practical I thought I'd add them to the list in case anyone was interested. Hi Paul Would very much like to take the following: Unbranded system unit (no HD or memory, but has CD writer, Athlon 2400+ or thereabouts I think) A friend builds systems, for those who don';t have them, so would like to pass this on to him. I like to get him metal cases, for this purpose Please keep for us We will arrange collection, together with the drive bay mount-housings offered, which I wanted, some time earlier Thanx Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Online chat with Mark Shuttleworth
On 04/07/12 10:19, Alan Pope wrote: ( snip _ Mark Shuttleworth: (snip ) We had to leave a lot of friends behind Cutting away at your user-base ? How very wise that is . Mark Shuttleworth: It was tough to lead ( snip ) We had done very well just shipping the best of FLOSS, but it clearly wasn't enough. ( snip ) we found industry politics blocked us ( snip ) So, now we know why Unity -- it's hardware-driven -- greed to capture the i-Pad, similar devices + Android, etc. internet phones. The software house isn't in the driving seat, after all. Follow the money .. Mark Shuttleworth: ( snip) Unity ( snip) was in large part designed to make the tablet / desktop convergence Just as I thought .. Mark Shuttleworth: ( snip ) there's a limit to how far you can go if you only appeal to people who are grumpy about change, though, because then you either have to maintain the old, or introduce new change yourself. Without polling your users. They'll take whatever they're given. Just drive right on ahead, fill up the vacuum behind you, with appeals to sympathy, on account of how tough it was to lead, what with having to inflict all that change, on the unwilling, poor you .. Mint said they would maintain Gnome2, then stopped. Then said they would offer Gnome Shell Extensions. Then forked Gnome Shell. It's all good and OK, but I think it gets more difficult over time unless you commit to a vision and drive it. And I don't know what that vision is. But now we know what /your/ vision is: out with the old, in with the new; at any price. Drag 'em all behind you, willy-nilly. They'll all get used to it ! Cheers, Indeed L -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 03/07/12 11:40, pavithran wrote: On 3 July 2012 14:54, Chris Liddell c...@spamcop.net wrote: Having said that, as a developer on a moderately important piece of software for the Unix/Linux world, and being responsible for the releases of that software, my experience doesn't encourage me to believe there's much listening going on in the Ubuntu camp. When I contacted some members of the Ubuntu release committee last year (at the behest of the Ubuntu package maintainer), I didn't even receive an acknowledgement back - which I felt was pretty poor. But I am very glad that here we have alan pope who is not just listening but also trying to answer as well as taking feedback for the future development of ubuntu . @alan pope : Yes its a very long thread but personally I feel this thread has one of the most important views / points on free desktop and its feedback from the power user side . Hope the next release would rock :D KDE4 took its time , hope so will unity . Regards, pavithran Agreed. Temporary truce, while Gnome fallback gets a tryout; .. If user control returns, you have your continued user loyalty - for now Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 02/07/12 17:37, Andy Smith wrote: Hi Leszek, Please can you trim your quotes a little? There was no need to quote the full previous message (78 lines). It just means that everyone has to scroll through it to reach your text which is then hard to tell which bits (if any) you are actually replying to. Sure mate Sorry Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 09:56, Chris Liddell wrote: A bit late to this discussion, but never mind. I gave up on Unity *very* quickly. it took me a good (bad!) fifteen minutes to find how to get a terminal window up, and I concluded it was not for me, at all - I switched to Xfce for now. I may go back to Debian next time I have to setup a machine. This is Unix, for heaven's sake, how can a terminal window *not* be available right there, front and centre? I very much feel there is a trend in interface design to favour the new/occasional user, even when it will inconvenience the experienced power user. In truth I have no problem with interfaces being made easier to drive for the less experienced user, but why does it have to get in the way of me (as an experienced user) going about things they way I want to? Unity and Gnome3 (I haven't tried KDE in years) both seem to want to impose a way of working on me, and that's a big reason I wanted to get away from Windows - I want to tell the computer how to work, not have the computer tell me how to work! I wonder if we'll see an upsurge in power users using plain old window managers, instead of the full desktop experience GUIs Chris Hi Chris I think I'm inclined to agree with all of this As an 8 year user of Ubuntu, I too want to do things my way Will certainly consider window manager usage, rather than Unity-for-dummies Thanx, Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 09:58, Alan Pope wrote: On 01/07/12 02:22, Full Circle Podcast wrote: Oops, almost forgot, Popey: You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but I would question the sustainability of those desktops. Nice plug of the corporate line, It's not the corporate line, it's my personal opinion. As I understand it one is a fork of a current desktop (GNOME Shell) the other is a fork of an old abandoned desktop (GNOME 2). Neither have particularly large development communities. They're both aimed at the refuseniks who don't like GNOME Shell or Unity. I don't believe the 'future' of computing is based in a dead/unsupported desktop (GNOME 2) or a _fork_ of said dead/unsupported desktop. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's just mine, personally. The complaints about Unity and GNOME Shell are mostly coming from the 'neckbeards'. People who are perfectly entitled to their opinion and choice of desktop, but are actually a pretty small part of the computer-buying market. There's millions upon millions of people out there who have never seen GNOME 2 or XFCE and don't have the same pre-conceptions that us nerds do. The vast echo-chamber of the internet (including mailing lists and twitter feeds) is not at all representative of the 'normals'. No, Unity isn't perfect. If it's broken in places, let us know and we will try to fix it. My team at Canonical are responsible for putting out Unity/Compiz etc releases so I'm keen to know which bits are broken, so we can, you know, fix them. I mean, who wants to get stuck on a proprietary desktop supported by only one commercial Linux vendoroh. Like GNOME Shell? When you install KDE, LXDE, XFCE desktops, they take on a kind of Unity cut-down format .. Hmm. don't suppose those project teams would take that as a compliment. Or an accurate comparison. Ho hum. I didn't say that! Leszek did. Get your reply-formatting fixed please. I use it on all my machines, I guess that makes me a dummy. We couldn't possibly comment. But then again, if you're Canonical's Product Strategy Manager, you are kind of obliged to eat your own dog food. I used it on all my machines long before I started working for Canonical. Yes, it's expected that we dogfood our own products, that's not exactly surprising, but it's easy to do when you're already running it. I'm just an Engineering Manager, the head of Product Strategy is Mark Shuttleworth. Cheers, Hi Alan Trouble is, we slightly longer users in time, are some of the key recommenders of a distro to new entrants If a desktop cripples established ease-of-use, forcing a completely different operational design on us, we're not going to want to recommend the same elevated learning curve to others I've no special preferences ( Debian/Ubuntu/derivatives ), but simply will hafta travel the road of max. power-user configurability so that the real work ( whatever that may be for self, or others ), can still go on getting done, with a minimum of heartache If the developers can restore power-user configurability to Unity - while still allowing new users to grasp the holding hand of a Mac-like icon-taskbar, then that would comfortably satisfy all comers .. Even grousers/gripers, like my current bemused self Restoring user selection of choice of desktop at bootup, would be a prime contribution .. ( if it's there, I don't see it ) All the best, Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 10:14, Alan Pope wrote: On 01/07/12 03:11, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote: Some private jokery-pokery here No idea, I think Robin had been on the sherry. :) But, more pragmatically, how to get Gnome fall-back session ? sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback Logout, log back in again but choose the fallback session. Cheers, Most helpful Will certainly install Thanx a bunch Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 10:33, Alan Pope wrote: On 01/07/12 10:26, Chris Liddell wrote: So, clearly I'm wrong. I've always wanted to work the way Unity works, I just didn't realise it.. I fail to see how being different is 'getting in the way'. There's a learning curve with many things, but people seem to have a very low tolerance for change on the desktop. Perhaps the proliferation of desktops perpetuates that. 10 Choose a desktop 20 Install desktop 30 Spend 5 minutes using it, make a snap decision that it's not good 40 Goto 10 There's a lot of that about. Are you channelling the ghost of Steve Jobs? There's our way, and there's the wrong way is not an attitude I ever expected to find so openly espoused in the Unix world, and especially not in the Linux world. Just because GNOME 2 did it one way for years, doesn't make it the right way. It just makes it the established way. The established way can still be wrong. Cheers, Now, really ! Transparency is a prime user need Users don't have the same priorities as software developers/designers/or the overall architects I don't believe it is fair additionally to compel new users into a browser-driven search mode, when they're learning replacements for their WinApps It is, however, fair to expect experienced users to want to play with a new way of doing the old things - but not, I feel, to compel them into it The balance is wrong, for the moment. How one works through ( not with ) Unity, needs to be shifted. Default choices we had with 10.04.x have been removed. I for one, want them back. While retaining the ability to shift between old mode new mode. Just for completeness' sake .. Re-/Education of an established user-base is something more readily achieved with a catchment of old faithfuls - who may not have the spare energy to devote, in order to invest the time, internalizing new forms of keystroke magic, in order to get their work out The work, the work, is what matters: not the software ! That is supposed to be making the work we do, easier - not harder. ( I discern the baleful influence of Cloud technology, behind the present situation with Unity. Linus Torvalds himself, and many others, are agreed, that Cloud, Software-As-A-Service, all the other related developments forcing unaccountable company controlled Cloud-server-hosting of our precious data, is an unmitigated disaster-in-the-making - let alone an unresolvable security nightmare ) Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 10:38, Vic wrote: Just because GNOME 2 did it one way for years, doesn't make it the right way. Just because Gnome3 and Unity do it a different way, doesn't make it the right way. It would be really nice to have this discussion occasionally without being told we're just wrong for wanting the old metaphor that has evolved over many years, rather than the new and largely unproven one that's trendy... Vic. Yeah To take a schoolmasterly tone with subscribers, is likely to get people's backs up Reasoned argumentation, please. We're still all adults here, I think ? Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 10:48, James Courtier-Dutton wrote: On 1 July 2012 09:56, Chris Liddell c...@spamcop.net wrote: A bit late to this discussion, but never mind. I gave up on Unity *very* quickly. it took me a good (bad!) fifteen minutes to find how to get a terminal window up, and I concluded it was not for me, at all - I switched to Xfce for now. I may go back to Debian next time I have to setup a machine. This is Unix, for heaven's sake, how can a terminal window *not* be available right there, front and centre? For me, the terminal is: Press Windows Key, then press t, then press ENTER Far easier than moving the mouse around a bit and clicking. I can also drag and drop it off the Dash menus if I wish to click mouses on it. I agree, Unity has taken me a bit of getting used to, but most people are happy with the search approach. I don't think I can go back to the clunky Gnome or xfce desktops now. Once you get used to it, it does provide quicker (fewer clicks, key presses) access to what you want to do. In fact, the Start button is maybe disappearing for window 8, so Ubuntu are not the only people who think application menus are on the way out. Kind Regards James Nope Doesn't matter what the software engineers think ( or want us to think ) What matters, is combining familiarity with ease-of-use, making usage transparent Windows is no guide to *nix usage: the work we hafta get out, is the proper guide - the software's job is enable that to happen I simply can't recommend a desktop to new users, imposing such additional amounts of invested energy, before the workflows come rolling on out Devs, please think again ! Restore user primacy. Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 10:52, Alan Pope wrote: On 01/07/12 10:38, Vic wrote: Just because Gnome3 and Unity do it a different way, doesn't make it the right way. A convincing argument for GNOME 2 you have there. It would be really nice to have this discussion occasionally without being told we're just wrong for wanting the old metaphor that has evolved over many years, rather than the new and largely unproven one that's trendy... Reducing it down to 'them and us' doesn't help, it's not as simple as that. Although someone probably has to be wrong, and sure, it could be us. We do regular user testing with people (pretty much) off the street and that helps to feed back to our design and development processes. Sometimes they discover things with Unity that surprises us, and makes us change the way the desktop works. One example of that was the launcher dodging windows when they were brought near. We welcome new designs for features and behaviours suggestions for new or changed behaviour on our Unity design mailing list, and irc channels. If someone flat out doesn't like it and wants to use another desktop there's not much we can do, but if someone things we're wrong and they know the 'right' way and can articulate it in a meaningful and respectful (i.e. not just telling us it sucks) then we'll listen. We do listen, we may be wrong, time will tell. Cheers, Yeah, that's reasonable Project-in-process , then .. Hope my 2d worth already posted, can help Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
Hi all I've been struggling with Unity/Ubuntu 12.04 on a Mac Desktop seems a good deal less usable than in the pre-Unity days On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed, ever so easily Is there a SysAdmin's walkthrough, of how to return a Unity desktop to full administator's ready functionality ? Please advize, if you can. ( If not, I'll downgrade, keep on updating that .. ) When you install KDE, LXDE, XFCE desktops, they take on a kind of Unity cut-down format .. Instead of giving you a bootup choice of desktop, the system auto-defaults to the latest installed desktop All this is a backwards step - offering less user-friendliness more system-initiated control ( Ubuntu for dummies ? ) thanx, Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 30/06/12 11:37, Alan Pope wrote: On 30/06/12 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote: On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed, ever so easily In 12.04 it's very search-oriented. Press the Ubuntu button then click the second lens along (Applications Lens) or just tap the Windows (super) key + A and then start typing what you're after. Way more efficient than squirrelling through menus IMO. So to find xchat I do this:- Super + A, X, enter For audacity I do:- Super + A, au, enter etc. Is there a SysAdmin's walkthrough, of how to return a Unity desktop to full administator's ready functionality ? You could install gnome-session-fallback which is a bit like old GNOME 2, but not quite identical. Please advize, if you can. ( If not, I'll downgrade, keep on updating that .. ) .. and then have the issue again in a while when those older releases stop being updated and you have to choose a supported desktop again. You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but I would question the sustainability of those desktops. When you install KDE, LXDE, XFCE desktops, they take on a kind of Unity cut-down format .. I hear Debian is quite nice :) All this is a backwards step - offering less user-friendliness more system-initiated control ( Ubuntu for dummies ? ) I use it on all my machines, I guess that makes me a dummy. Cheers, Hi Alan Thanx for the good advice I understand Canonical's committed to Unity, but I still don't hafta like its seizure of control over the old menu-driven experience Nonetheless, I'll try keystroking, as you suggest .. Didn't mean to imply you're a dummy: what I meant, was, that the experience of Unity, gives me the impression, that I'm being turned into one ! Search-orientation derives from the browsing experience, which is a step along the way to Cloud. When that becomes mandatory, I'll give up computing altogether, as by then I guess I'll have written out all my books ! Oh - by the way, Ubuntu 12.04's installed on a Mac, so - no Windows key. Happy days, Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 30/06/12 12:29, john lewis wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:37:06 +0100 Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote: On 30/06/12 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote: On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed, ever so easily In 12.04 it's very search-oriented. Press the Ubuntu button then click the second lens along (Applications Lens) or just tap the Windows (super) key + A and then start typing what you're after. Way more efficient than squirrelling through menus IMO. You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but I would question the sustainability of those desktops. When you install KDE, LXDE, XFCE desktops, they take on a kind of Unity cut-down format .. I hear Debian is quite nice :) Debian is more than Nice ;-) Install it and never have to re-install your OS again and (for now at least and hopefully always) you can use Gnome Classic, chosen at login Wheezy has just been frozen but it will be a few months before it is released as the next stable version. Install Debian Unstable instead if you need more recent packages than are in current Debian Stable. It isn't all that problematic to use but does need regular doses of aptitude update, aptitude safe-upgrade I do it daily. Thanx John If I can't warm to Unity, I might well hafta go Debian Is there a HOW TO for installing it on a Mac ? It was mighty fiddly getting Ubuntu to dual-boot with OS-X on the Mac Thanx again, Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 30/06/12 20:44, pavithran wrote: On 30 June 2012 16:07, Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com wrote: You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but I would question the sustainability of those desktops. Almost the same issue here when I was roaming around desktops and landed on Ubuntu 12.04 with unity . Yes its hardly usable, the whole copy cat behaviour of unity (from mac) is driving people crazy . First it was things on left , next the entire menu goes out of the window . Though I dont mind designing for the mobile/handhelds I feel this is just not for me . If you still want to use the default unity , you can try out a nice guide on unity by Vancouver ubuntu http://frenchfortunecookie.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/unity-5-10-0-final-pdf.pdf The above guide though was helpful didn't convince me to use unity on ubuntu :) I have been using Cinnamon desktop from the linux mint team and I am not going back to unity . I agree that the support on cinnamon is a question but as long as the linux mint thrives there would be cinnamon :) Review on Cinnamon : Just loved it :) I tried out Gnome3 on debian and I liked it . Coming back to ubuntu the simplest way to get a usable desktop was to install Cinnamon . I just added the PPA at https://launchpad.net/~gwendal-lebihan-dev/+archive/cinnamon-stable and sudo apt-get install cinnamon was how I got back the control of my desktop . It took few minutes to discover cinnamon . There was this Cinnamon Settings with which you can get themes and other extensions which can be downloaded from http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/ Happy to see a downstream project like linuxmint helping out upstream :) Well there are also plans to bring it more up aka into the debian archives ! Regards, Pavithran Hi Pavi Good ideas here Thanx in bunches ! Will certainly have a peek sometime All the best, Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 02:17, Full Circle Podcast wrote: Who are you and what have you done with the real Alan Pope? Question about Unity and HUD that no-one's yet answered: why are you making me type and search for stuff that I used to, errm... have in nice menus and panels? Still not beginner friendly (I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!) Use instead Gnome Fallback Session. Easy. RC Robin Catling Full Circle Podcast On 30 June 2012 11:37, Alan Pope alan.p...@canonical.com mailto:alan.p...@canonical.com wrote: On 30/06/12 11:09, Leszek Kobiernicki 1 wrote: On 10.04.x, you can access every single app cumulatively installed, ever so easily In 12.04 it's very search-oriented. Press the Ubuntu button then click the second lens along (Applications Lens) or just tap the Windows (super) key + A and then start typing what you're after. Way more efficient than squirrelling through menus IMO. So to find xchat I do this:- Super + A, X, enter For audacity I do:- Super + A, au, enter etc. Is there a SysAdmin's walkthrough, of how to return a Unity desktop to full administator's ready functionality ? You could install gnome-session-fallback which is a bit like old GNOME 2, but not quite identical. Please advize, if you can. ( If not, I'll downgrade, keep on updating that .. ) .. and then have the issue again in a while when those older releases stop being updated and you have to choose a supported desktop again. You could try other derivatives like Linux Mint with Cinnamon or Mate, but I would question the sustainability of those desktops. When you install KDE, LXDE, XFCE desktops, they take on a kind of Unity cut-down format .. I hear Debian is quite nice :) All this is a backwards step - offering less user-friendliness more system-initiated control ( Ubuntu for dummies ? ) I use it on all my machines, I guess that makes me a dummy. Cheers, -- Alan Pope Engineering Manager Canonical - Product Strategy +44 (0) 7973 620 164 tel:%2B44%20%280%29%207973%20620%20164 alan.p...@canonical.com mailto:alan.p...@canonical.com http://ubuntu.com/ -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk mailto:Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- -- Some private jokery-pokery here But, more pragmatically, how to get Gnome fall-back session ? I will hunt for it in the repository - if ever it can be found .. Thanx, Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] Unity on Ubuntu 12.04 v. old Gnome/KDE on 10.04.x
On 01/07/12 02:30, Andy Smith wrote: Hello, On Sun, Jul 01, 2012 at 02:22:58AM +0100, Full Circle Podcast wrote: I use it on all my machines, I guess that makes me a dummy. We couldn't possibly comment. But then again, if you're Canonical's Product Strategy Manager, you are kind of obliged to eat your own dog food. This was not a very constructive post. Please can you try to be less needlessly offensive when posting here. Thanks, Andy -- Hi Andy This is clearly a joke, and not intended to offend I'm the puzzled mastiff, straining at the leash, with Unity And the light-hearted tone helps confidence surmount the desktop hurdle Lesz --- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] [OT] ISP level of tech support
On 21/06/12 18:32, Rob Malpass wrote: Hi all Slightly ot but something we all have to do at some point... I ask in all honesty - could / should any ISP have been able to do more for me in my situation? Tonight I contacted Zen because (having only had my connection activated a couple of days ago) I returned home to find no connection. Restarting the router fixed it but, just to be sure, I checked the logs thinking it might be to do with training mode. As it's a new router (supplied by Zen) I'm not that familiar with all of its' log speak. I rang tech support to find out why it had dropped the connection. I was told that: a) they couldn't tell me why the connection had dropped b) the logs had contained entries around the time of the drop for Firewall rules modified which worried me slightly. I would have thought that only I, as admin, could modify my firewall rules. When I asked him about this he said Zen didn't support the router (even though they supplied it!) and he couldn't explain what rules were modified or why. It's probably coincidental that he sounded like a right lazy so and so but to be honest, I expect better from Zen. I'm not that much in a huff because all is well that ends well - I have a connection - but I'm more surprised than anything. Zen are usually brilliant for customer and tech support - so don't want to see standards slipping - but similarly I don't want to hold them up to too exacting a standard. Cheers Rob -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- What ! Supply kit - and then refuse to support it Change your ISP to one which doesn't dikk around like this SysAdmins are not supposed to talk this kinda talk to their users I never heard anyone give a caller this kind of gyp, either in MoD, or in an MNC Lesz -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] [OT] Microphones for a PPC Mac Mini
On 16/06/12 09:44, Sean Gibbins wrote: Morning All, I recently grabbed one of Stephen Davies' PPC Mac Minis for my son, who sings in a couple of choirs and would like to record his voice at home using Garageband. He knows little about the recording process and I know considerably less (!), so we are both a little stumped when it comes at getting sound in to the first generation Mini on account of there only being one port, which I believe doubles up for line in and line out. Anyway, I am guessing that it is possible to buy USB microphones but have little or no idea about compatibility, availability or indeed suitability. Also, being relatively new to Apple hardware I am similarly clueless when it comes to the best forum to post this question in. So, if anyone has any experience with this sort of thing, or failing that, knows the best place to ask this question, I'd be very grateful. Cheers, Sean If you're talking about a single USB port, then a USB switch might help with data lines .. You can pick them up at computer spares fairs, boot sales, the like ( or perhaps MAPL:INS in Portsmouth/RS in Southampton ) There used to be a Sunday morning computer fair at Lord Nelson's school in Hilsea ( Portsmouth ) Input devices such as mikes need to be matched in terms of millivolts/milliamps to the original motherboard specifications for your box: I would look for those on a decent search engine ( I use https://startpage.com, which does NOT record your ISP address, customized in Firefox through Settings ( top right hand corner ) Generate URL, copied into . Preferences HomePage saved ) Not been for several years, though, so it might have been moved by now Hope this helps Leshy -- The power of this life, if men will open their hearts to it, will heal them, will create them anew, physically and spiritually. Here is the gospel of earth, ringing with hope, like May mornings with bird-song, fresh and healthy as fields of young grain. But those who would be healed must absorb it not only into their bodies in daily food and warmth but into their minds, because its spiritual power is more intense. It is not reasonable to suppose that an essence so divine and mysterious as life can be confined to material things; therefore, if our bodies need to be in touch with it so do our minds. The joy of a spring day revives a man's spirit, reacting healthily on the bone and the blood, just as the wholesome juices of plants cleanse the body, reacting on the mind. Let us join in the abundant sacrament--for our bodies the crushed gold of harvest and ripe vine-clusters, for our souls the purple fruit of evening with its innumerable seed of stars . Vis Medicatrix Naturae, by Mary Webb, in Spring of Joy: Nature Essays, Constable, London, 1917 -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
