Re: [Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ?
Hello, On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:41:25PM +, Nick Chalk wrote: Andy Smith a...@strugglers.net wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 07:17:44AM +0100, Stephen Davies wrote: It states that the IPV4 address base will be exhausted in 700 days and that we should (by default) move to IPV6 I think it will take a bit longer than this, but not much longer. I would expect there to be a formalised market for trading IPv4 allocations in the next couple of years, and then trading of them will extend its life by 5-10 years. RIPE's FAQ on IPv4 address exhaustion: http://www.ripe.net/info/faq/IPv6-deployment.html A little estimation tool, with commentary: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html The thing is though, this data is based only on current policies and request frequencies, and does not take into account what will happen once there is a direct monetary advantage to reassigning unused address space, i.e. a market for address space. As we near exhaustion, policies of the RIRs will change and there will be huge pressure to allow trading of allocations. Currently it is quite difficult to sell an IP allocation as none of the RIRs support that. It is sort of possible by making a subsidiary company that uses the allocation and then sell the subsidiary to another company, but I don't think you can list the allocation as part of the official assets of the company. Towards he end I think this will change and will have some strange effects. There have been some other interesting drivers towards IPv6 adoption especially in the Asia Pacific region. For example, some broadband providers have too many subscribers for each one to get a unique IPv4 address inside any RFC1918 block. Cheers, Andy -- http://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's. -- Mike Bristow signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ?
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 11:40 +, Andy Smith wrote: Hello, snip There have been some other interesting drivers towards IPv6 adoption especially in the Asia Pacific region. For example, some broadband providers have too many subscribers for each one to get a unique IPv4 address inside any RFC1918 block. Cheers, Andy Hello, Interestingly I was on a CCNA course last week, and was told that one of the major factors for moving to IPv6 was the fear that if we don't do it soon, then China, India and other asian countries would do their own thing, causing many problems across the industry. -Matt Daubney -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ?
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:40:16 +, a...@strugglers.net said: For example, some broadband providers have too many subscribers for each one to get a unique IPv4 address inside any RFC1918 block. Really? Given that 10.0.0.0/8 has 16.5+ million nodes, there can't be /that/ many ISPs with more customers than that (although I can believe there are some). Maybe we should view IPv4 as the ultimate anti-monopoly tool... -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ?
Hello, On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 02:08:15PM +0100, Keith Edmunds wrote: On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:40:16 +, a...@strugglers.net said: For example, some broadband providers have too many subscribers for each one to get a unique IPv4 address inside any RFC1918 block. Really? Given that 10.0.0.0/8 has 16.5+ million nodes, there can't be /that/ many ISPs with more customers than that (although I can believe there are some). Maybe we should view IPv4 as the ultimate anti-monopoly tool... http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-54/presentations/IPv6_management.pdf Until recently, Comcast was using Net 10 (RFC1918) for managing the cable modems: – That space was exhausted in 2005. There are more examples in asiapac because the population is much denser. Cheers, Andy -- http://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting Ging i stopped taking my medication long ago. the ironey is it was for social anxioty disorder and now i daren't go back to the doctor to get another perscription signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ?
This announcement by Roaring Penguin http://linuxpr.com/releases/11567.html had a bit that got me thinking. It states that the IPV4 address base will be exhausted in 700 days and that we should (by default) move to IPV6 That is all well and good but how many people reading this are actively using IPV6 (not just leaving if on by default but configuring things like ip6tables.conf, dhcp etc) How many are using an ISP that provided an IPV6 enabled connection? If so what ADSL modem do you use? If you don't use IPV6 then what are your plans to move to it (at least for external connections)? I visited a pretty 'with it' company yesterday and I was surprised that they have just about ditched IPV4 internally. They have one subnet left for those 'old' devices (HP Printers plus the odd Windows system). Everything else uses IPV6. Stephen D -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ?
Hi, I'd been wondering about IPv6. I'm in the middle of setting up a mega-vpn bringing together lots of disparate address spaces. What do I need to do if I want to run IPv6 internally? What do I need to do when I need to talk to real (IP v4) addresses? If I'm talking to an IPv4 machine that doesn't understand IPv6 how does it talk back? Looks like a need a serious how-to... Cheers, Paul. Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: Stephen Davies stephen.dav...@ultraconsulting.co.uk Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:17:44 To: Hampshire LUG Discussion Listhampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Subject: [Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ? This announcement by Roaring Penguin http://linuxpr.com/releases/11567.html had a bit that got me thinking. It states that the IPV4 address base will be exhausted in 700 days and that we should (by default) move to IPV6 That is all well and good but how many people reading this are actively using IPV6 (not just leaving if on by default but configuring things like ip6tables.conf, dhcp etc) How many are using an ISP that provided an IPV6 enabled connection? If so what ADSL modem do you use? If you don't use IPV6 then what are your plans to move to it (at least for external connections)? I visited a pretty 'with it' company yesterday and I was surprised that they have just about ditched IPV4 internally. They have one subnet left for those 'old' devices (HP Printers plus the odd Windows system). Everything else uses IPV6. Stephen D -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ?
Hi Stephen, On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 07:17:44AM +0100, Stephen Davies wrote: This announcement by Roaring Penguin http://linuxpr.com/releases/11567.html had a bit that got me thinking. It states that the IPV4 address base will be exhausted in 700 days and that we should (by default) move to IPV6 I think it will take a bit longer than this, but not much longer. I would expect there to be a formalised market for trading IPv4 allocations in the next couple of years, and then trading of them will extend its life by 5-10 years. That is all well and good but how many people reading this are actively using IPV6 (not just leaving if on by default but configuring things like ip6tables.conf, dhcp etc) It's hard to actively use it when there's hardly any IPv6-only content on the Internet. Very occasionally I notice I've connected to an IPv6 web site, or an email came in/out over IPv6. The sad thing is that I tend to notice I've visited an IPv6 site only when it doesn't work, usually because someone put an address in their DNS and then their IPv6 config broke without them noticing. The IPv6 Internet is not as reliable as the IPv4 Internet, because of human factors. How many are using an ISP that provided an IPV6 enabled connection? Very few UK broadband suppliers do provide IPv6. There's a list at: https://www.sixxs.net/wiki/IPv6_Enabled_Service_Providers If so what ADSL modem do you use? If you don't use IPV6 then what are your plans to move to it (at least for external connections)? Personally I use a SixXS tunnel at home so the ADSL part is irrelevant. I try to use IPv6 on the LAN where possible but not all software supports it. At BitFolk we offer native (not tunnelled) IPv6 connectivity; a /64 per customer plus an optional /56 if required/justified. If you are interested in how it works then I think it's definitely worth getting a tunnel to play with, but I think the lack of IPv6-only content out there means there's very little point in expending effort on it otherwise. For the rest of the non-technical internet users I think the market will sort it out for them. Cheers, Andy -- http://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting GeorgeWBush I'm still banned on #ubuntu-uk though. Or should I say, #ubuntu-anti-trans signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] IPV4 : 700 days and counting ?
Andy Smith a...@strugglers.net wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 07:17:44AM +0100, Stephen Davies wrote: It states that the IPV4 address base will be exhausted in 700 days and that we should (by default) move to IPV6 I think it will take a bit longer than this, but not much longer. I would expect there to be a formalised market for trading IPv4 allocations in the next couple of years, and then trading of them will extend its life by 5-10 years. RIPE's FAQ on IPv4 address exhaustion: http://www.ripe.net/info/faq/IPv6-deployment.html A little estimation tool, with commentary: http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html The current Bogon list: http://www.cymru.com/Documents/bogon-bn.html Bogons are IP address ranges that should not be routed over the Net - they're either unallocated, private, or special use. In this context, they give an idea of the free address ranges... once you've removed 10/8, 172.16/12, 192.168/16, etc. Nick. -- Nick Chalk . once a Radio Designer Confidence is failing to understand the problem. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
