Re: [drlvm] release vs. debug

2006-11-12 Thread Pavel Ozhdikhin

So, the time spent for pre-commit checks won't be a big problem in this
case. Enabling JIT to be built in debug by default (what I think we should
do) will add just 20-30% to this time.

Thanks,
Pavel


On 11/10/06, Gregory Shimansky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Well I am always testing patches in _default_ mode which debug for VM,
release for JIT and whatever it is for classlib. If defaults change then
it will be some other conditions. Average time to run build test is
~60 minutes.

Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
 Sure, contributors should check debug or even both debug and release
builds
 and comment about this in JIRA.

 I'm talking about committers, will they test debug build which takes 5
 times
 more time? And does it mean they will be able to apply 5 times less
 patches?


 Actually I'm fine if the committers will check both debug and release
 builds
 and I encourage them to check on all supported platforms. But I'm not a
 committer. :)

 Thanks,
 Pavel


 On 11/10/06, Rana Dasgupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I can understand that the contributor may not have access to multiple
 platforms, but surely he can test using both debug and release builds
:-)
 What do we gain by asking the contributor to test less?

 Rana


 On 11/9/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  +1 for debug testing before submitting a patch.
 
  But, for pre-commit testing we should be careful saying we'll test
all
 the
  patches in debug mode. Though it imprves quality of checks, debug
build
 is
  significantly slower then release, especially when running with
  interpreter
  or Jitrino.OPT. I ran build test on the DRLVM built in debug mode
and
 it
  takes about 5 times more time than release version on my laptop, The
 times
  were as follows:
 
  build test, Windows XP/ IA32:
  DRLVM release: 22 min 55 sec
  DRLVM debug: 99 min 23 sec
 
  So, may be the good choice will be to ask patch submitters to check
 their
  patches on the debug build and, if the JIRA issue contains comments
 that
  this check is passed, committers may test it on release build only.
 
  Thanks,
  Pavel
 
  On 11/10/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Well, since the problem is repeatable :)
  
  
   Gregory Shimansky wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
   
   
Alexei Zakharov wrote:
Hi DRLVM fans,
   
I encountered a rather strange problem while working on some
 class
library tests. At least two tests from the beans module hang
(or
crash) while running on DRLVM debug builds but work fine on
DRLVM
release builds. I thought that debug build is something about
 adding
debug symbols to VM binaries and this should not affect the
functionality. Can someone shed a light on this?
   
I would think it's just an assertion firing...
   
Actually it is more than that. In debug mode TRACE statements are
compiled and therefore produce executable code. There may also be
 some
bugs in compiler generating code in different modes (although
this
usually happens for release).
   
I don't know why hanging happens, but the difference in generated
 code
is actually quite big. Also assertions or any crashes go to
exceptions/signal handlers which may happen to loop infinitely,
 there
were bugs like this happening on the current version of sources,
 look
  at
HARMONY-2018 and HADMONY-2006.
   
This is the first
question. The second question - what we should do with such
 tests.
  The
tests pass on the downloadable HDK and JRE snapshots as well
 as on
classlib + j9. What should be the commit criteria for DRLVM –
 i.e.
what is the *true* build? :) I think many people here currently
 use
snapshots to test their patches.
   
debug :)  don't sweep the problems under the rug...
   
+1

--
Gregory




Re: [drlvm] release vs. debug

2006-11-12 Thread Pavel Ozhdikhin

On 11/10/06, Alexei Zakharov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Sure, contributors should check debug or even both debug and release
builds
 and comment about this in JIRA.

As far as I understand the only person who answers for the commit is a
committer. So I don't think that establishing a policy that shifts a
part of responsibility from the committer is a good idea.

Well, I have another silly question to gurus indeed. Is there any
possibility that some piece of code can break / hang the release build
if it passes ok on the debug build?




Theoretically it is possible to have problems on release build even if
debug build passes the checks. More sofisticated optimizations applied in
release build may reveal some subtle error in the code. Practically tis is
not a common case though.

Thanks,
Pavel

Thanks,


2006/11/10, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Sure, contributors should check debug or even both debug and release
builds
 and comment about this in JIRA.

 I'm talking about committers, will they test debug build which takes 5
times
 more time? And does it mean they will be able to apply 5 times less
patches?


 Actually I'm fine if the committers will check both debug and release
builds
 and I encourage them to check on all supported platforms. But I'm not a
 committer. :)

 Thanks,
 Pavel


 On 11/10/06, Rana Dasgupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I can understand that the contributor may not have access to multiple
  platforms, but surely he can test using both debug and release builds
:-)
  What do we gain by asking the contributor to test less?
 
  Rana
 
 
  On 11/9/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   +1 for debug testing before submitting a patch.
  
   But, for pre-commit testing we should be careful saying we'll test
all
  the
   patches in debug mode. Though it imprves quality of checks, debug
build
  is
   significantly slower then release, especially when running with
   interpreter
   or Jitrino.OPT. I ran build test on the DRLVM built in debug mode
and
  it
   takes about 5 times more time than release version on my laptop, The
  times
   were as follows:
  
   build test, Windows XP/ IA32:
   DRLVM release: 22 min 55 sec
   DRLVM debug: 99 min 23 sec
  
   So, may be the good choice will be to ask patch submitters to check
  their
   patches on the debug build and, if the JIRA issue contains comments
that
   this check is passed, committers may test it on release build only.
  
   Thanks,
   Pavel
  
   On 11/10/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
Well, since the problem is repeatable :)
   
   
Gregory Shimansky wrote:
 Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:


 Alexei Zakharov wrote:
 Hi DRLVM fans,

 I encountered a rather strange problem while working on some
class
 library tests. At least two tests from the beans module hang
(or
 crash) while running on DRLVM debug builds but work fine on
DRLVM
 release builds. I thought that debug build is something about
  adding
 debug symbols to VM binaries and this should not affect the
 functionality. Can someone shed a light on this?

 I would think it's just an assertion firing...

 Actually it is more than that. In debug mode TRACE statements
are
 compiled and therefore produce executable code. There may also
be
  some
 bugs in compiler generating code in different modes (although
this
 usually happens for release).

 I don't know why hanging happens, but the difference in
generated
  code
 is actually quite big. Also assertions or any crashes go to
 exceptions/signal handlers which may happen to loop infinitely,
  there
 were bugs like this happening on the current version of sources,
  look
   at
 HARMONY-2018 and HADMONY-2006.

 This is the first
 question. The second question - what we should do with such
tests.
   The
 tests pass on the downloadable HDK and JRE snapshots as well
as on
 classlib + j9. What should be the commit criteria for DRLVM –
i.e.
 what is the *true* build? :) I think many people here
currently
  use
 snapshots to test their patches.

 debug :)  don't sweep the problems under the rug...

 +1



--
Alexei Zakharov,
Intel Enterprise Solutions Software Division



[classlib][sql] SerialJavaObject constructor throws SerialException when the object is unserializable?

2006-11-12 Thread Andrew Zhang

Hi folks,

I'm confused by javax.sql.rowset.serial.SerialJavaObject spec. The spec of
SerialJavaObject constructor says throws SerialException if the object is
found to be unserializable. It also mentions Static or transient fields
cannot be serialized; an attempt to serialize them will result in a
SerialException object being thrown. . Does it mean to throw
SerialException if the object doesn't implement Serializable or it contains
static/transient fields? I tried some tests[1], but SerialException is never
thrown. Am I missing something? Thank you in advance for your help!

[1] SerialJavaObject constructor test case:
public void test_Constructor() throws Exception {
 Object obj = new NonSerializableClass();
 SerialJavaObject sjo = new SerialJavaObject(obj);
}

static class NonSerializableClass {
 public static int i;
 public static Thread t;
 public transient String s;
 NonSerializableClass() {

 }
}

--
Best regards,
Andrew Zhang


Re: [general] creation of jdktools

2006-11-12 Thread Ilya Neverov

Hi, see below.

On 11/12/06, Nathan Beyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 11/11/06, Ilya Neverov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 10/31/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [skip]
   Assumptions which look reasonable for jdktool's build subsystem:
  
   1) it works in presence of built classlib (as HDK binaries or as a
   result of classlib phase of overall build);
 
  yes - think of the same trick we do w/ DRLVM to reach over to find it.
   I'd imagine the federated build to then have :
 
 trunk/
working_classlib/
working_vm/
working_jdktools/
 

 Commiters,

 Could you please create empty directory trunk/working_jdktools.

 I need it to check building jdktools as part of the federated build.
 Without having the working_jdktools/ in the repository the moving
 sources and patching buiild files would require additional manual
 steps.

 Thank you.
 -Ilya


Are you sure? Assuming you checkout the trunk folder, can't you just
create the working_jdktools folder in your working copy and svn
add it and then perform all of the moves, etc and then create the
diff from that. I may be wrong, but I think I've done this before with
SVN.


I tried that way but got the svn error on Windows 2003:
...
Atrunk\sandbox\geir\build.xml
Checked out revision 473980.

mkdir trunk\working_jdktools
svn add trunk\working_jdktools

A trunk\working_jdktools

svn switch -r HEAD 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/harmony/enhanced/jdktools/trunk; 
trunk\working_jdktools

svn: Failed to add directory 'trunk\working_jdktools': object of the
same name already exists

Looks like that 'svn switch' can be done for committed dir only;
probably the ' schedule=add ' attribute is erased during the switch
operation.

I'm trying to prepare modifications which can be committed at once to
create single revision for the jdktools source move. Currently I use
simple
   'svn co /jdktools/trunk  trunk\working_jdktools'
for build checks and such workspace structure would require separate
commits for trunk/working_jdktools and for jdktools/trunk. So I have
to ask for this preparation step.



If not, we can certainly whip it up quick. Would you mind posting the
full URL of the folder to create, so we don't screw it up (meaning, so
I don't screw it up).


Empty dir

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/harmony/enhanced/trunk/working_jdktools

is asked to be created.


-Nathan



Thank you
-Ilya


Re: svn commit: r473588 - in /incubator/harmony/enhanced/drlvm/trunk/vm: interpreter/src/ port/src/lil/em64t/pim/ vmcore/include/ vmcore/src/util/em64t/base/

2006-11-12 Thread Stefano Mazzocchi
Pavel Pervov wrote:
 Geir,
 
 Does SVN support some sort of exclude lists?

Of course, http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch07s02.html (look for the
svn:ignore property)

-- 
Stefano.



Re: [general] creation of jdktools

2006-11-12 Thread Nathan Beyer

Thanks for trying. I've created the folder. It's at revision 474016.

-Nathan

On 11/12/06, Ilya Neverov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi, see below.

On 11/12/06, Nathan Beyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 11/11/06, Ilya Neverov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 10/31/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  [skip]
Assumptions which look reasonable for jdktool's build subsystem:
   
1) it works in presence of built classlib (as HDK binaries or as a
result of classlib phase of overall build);
  
   yes - think of the same trick we do w/ DRLVM to reach over to find it.
I'd imagine the federated build to then have :
  
  trunk/
 working_classlib/
 working_vm/
 working_jdktools/
  
 
  Commiters,
 
  Could you please create empty directory trunk/working_jdktools.
 
  I need it to check building jdktools as part of the federated build.
  Without having the working_jdktools/ in the repository the moving
  sources and patching buiild files would require additional manual
  steps.
 
  Thank you.
  -Ilya
 

 Are you sure? Assuming you checkout the trunk folder, can't you just
 create the working_jdktools folder in your working copy and svn
 add it and then perform all of the moves, etc and then create the
 diff from that. I may be wrong, but I think I've done this before with
 SVN.

I tried that way but got the svn error on Windows 2003:
...
Atrunk\sandbox\geir\build.xml
Checked out revision 473980.
 mkdir trunk\working_jdktools
 svn add trunk\working_jdktools
A trunk\working_jdktools
 svn switch -r HEAD 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/harmony/enhanced/jdktools/trunk; 
trunk\working_jdktools
svn: Failed to add directory 'trunk\working_jdktools': object of the
same name already exists

Looks like that 'svn switch' can be done for committed dir only;
probably the ' schedule=add ' attribute is erased during the switch
operation.

I'm trying to prepare modifications which can be committed at once to
create single revision for the jdktools source move. Currently I use
simple
'svn co /jdktools/trunk  trunk\working_jdktools'
for build checks and such workspace structure would require separate
commits for trunk/working_jdktools and for jdktools/trunk. So I have
to ask for this preparation step.


 If not, we can certainly whip it up quick. Would you mind posting the
 full URL of the folder to create, so we don't screw it up (meaning, so
 I don't screw it up).

Empty dir

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/harmony/enhanced/trunk/working_jdktools

is asked to be created.

 -Nathan


Thank you
-Ilya



Re: svn commit: r473588 - in /incubator/harmony/enhanced/drlvm/trunk/vm: interpreter/src/ port/src/lil/em64t/pim/ vmcore/include/ vmcore/src/util/em64t/base/

2006-11-12 Thread Nathan Beyer

I deleted the file and added it to the ignore property.

For those not familiar with SVN, I would strongly encourage reading
the first couple chapters of the book [1]. It's a very quick read and
extremely helpful.

-Nathan

[1] http://svnbook.red-bean.com/

On 11/12/06, Stefano Mazzocchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Pavel Pervov wrote:
 Geir,

 Does SVN support some sort of exclude lists?

Of course, http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch07s02.html (look for the
svn:ignore property)

--
Stefano.




Re: svn commit: r473588 - in /incubator/harmony/enhanced/drlvm/trunk/vm: interpreter/src/ port/src/lil/em64t/pim/ vmcore/include/ vmcore/src/util/em64t/base/

2006-11-12 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.

Thats what I thought I suggested, but don't see the email now...

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:


Gregory Shimansky wrote:

On Saturday 11 November 2006 04:28 Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Author: gshimansky
Date: Fri Nov 10 16:17:50 2006
New Revision: 473588

URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revrev=473588
Log:
Applied HARMONY-2152 [drlvm][em64t] build is broken after 1558 have
been
committed

Since x86_64 is not yet fully supported and patch touched only x86_64
files no tests were ran. When I tried acceptance tests on em64t
server I
effectively shut it down.


Modified:
incubator/harmony/enhanced/drlvm/trunk/vm/vmcore/include/version_svn_tag.

h URL:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/harmony/enhanced/drlvm/trunk/vm/vm

core/include/version_svn_tag.h?view=diffrev=473588r1=473587r2=473588
=

= ---
incubator/harmony/enhanced/drlvm/trunk/vm/vmcore/include/version_svn_tag.

h (original) +++
incubator/harmony/enhanced/drlvm/trunk/vm/vmcore/include/version_svn_tag.

h Fri Nov 10 16:17:50 2006 @@ -18,6 +18,6 @@
 #ifndef _VERSION_SVN_TAG_
 #define _VERSION_SVN_TAG_

-#define VERSION_SVN_TAG  473506
+#define VERSION_SVN_TAG  svn: This client is too old to work with
working copy '.'; please get a newer Subversion client

uh?

Ok it seems like svn version on the x86_64 server was too old for the
checked out repository. Don't worry, the version file will be fixed
with a next commit to VM.

It looks like we should really autogenerate it and remove it from svn
as was suggested in another thread.


It is autogenerated.  We just need to stop committing it...


ehm, how about using svn:ignore then ;-)



Re: [general] creation of jdktools

2006-11-12 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.
Can you please give us an idea of what you have right now?  There's no 
way we can participate with you if we don't have an idea of current 
status...


geir


Ilya Neverov wrote:

On 10/31/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[skip]

 Assumptions which look reasonable for jdktool's build subsystem:

 1) it works in presence of built classlib (as HDK binaries or as a
 result of classlib phase of overall build);

yes - think of the same trick we do w/ DRLVM to reach over to find it.
 I'd imagine the federated build to then have :

   trunk/
  working_classlib/
  working_vm/
  working_jdktools/



Commiters,

Could you please create empty directory trunk/working_jdktools.

I need it to check building jdktools as part of the federated build.
Without having the working_jdktools/ in the repository the moving
sources and patching buiild files would require additional manual
steps.

Thank you.
-Ilya



Re: [drlvm][jvmti][testing] I want to add JVMTI tests to drlvm commit checks

2006-11-12 Thread Gregory Shimansky
On Sunday 12 November 2006 00:39 Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
  Ok I think I've come up with a reasonable compromise. I still used the
  whole system of converting XML and all the stuff. It does quite a lot of
  things in setup and init targets and using select is convenient. I
  don't know how to untangle all of the setup and not do a lot of
  duplication in ant scripting which I am not big expert in.

 Why?  Why do we want to persist with this system, when WE ARE GOING TO
 GET RID OF IT at some point?

One reason would be is that I don't know ant well enough to redesign the whole 
stuff all together. I used the existing setup and init targets which take 
care of including ancontrip and cctask jars.

If you ask me, I'd prefer make in the first place, ant is just too foreign to 
me. There is no reason to use caps, we didn't even start to discuss how we 
want to see drlvm build and when WE ARE GOING TO GET RID OF IT at some 
point.

 Did you also fix the silliness of having to use annotations to exclude
 tests?  Please? :)

No, the patch has an exclude example using and exclude statement in 
patternset in its beginning.

 I'm glad we have these tests, but really...  I wish you hadn't invested
 the time integrating it into the DRLVM build system...

Even if we write a new one from scratch I want the tests right now. There were 
several times when JVMTI was broken since there were no tests for it at all 
since it is a special VM mode no one usually uses.

The time invested, well... I learned a lot since the last time I used ant. 
Maybe one day I'll be able to write something as impressive and 
unmaintainable as the current drlvm built :)

Seriously, if we're going to change it, let's discuss it how we want it to 
look like and which tool we'll use. I vote for make (gnu version, that is 
gmake), even on win32 it exists in cygwin and mingw.

-- 
Gregory Shimansky, Intel Middleware Products Division


Re: [testing] harmonytest.org new features

2006-11-12 Thread Richard Liang

Great Job. ;-)

Anton Luht wrote:

Hello,

Yesterday I've deployed a new version to harmonytest.org

New features include:
- packages/suites/tests tree-like navigation (as in local JUnit html
results).Tree navigation populated to old results, too.
- the first page only includes 50 latest test runs, link to archive
search added (includes search by uploader's name - request by Tony Wu)
- filter diff results by test name (request by Alexei Fedotov)
- detection of crashes - sometimes when suite crashes, there is an
empty TEST-suite-name.xml file in the run results. If such file is
found, all tests from this suite (detected from previous runs) are
marked as crashed in this run.


Bugs fixed:
- duplicates in the results (if any) are merged (bug report by Tony Wu
- test count on the site was bigger than real one)
- there was a problem in uploading large files - ~ 5Mb - the results
were not imported - playing with the configuration solved this problem
- at least my test 11Mb file that broke the upload now uploads
correctly.

Please report bugs and send feature requests.



--
Richard Liang
China Software Development Lab, IBM 





Re: Harmony passes all tests of Maven 2.0.4

2006-11-12 Thread Richard Liang

Cool ;-)

Leo Li wrote:

Hi, all:
Harmony classlib at revision 473150 passes all tests of Maven 
2.0.4 on

windows xp, redhat enterprise 4, unbuntu 6.0.6 and suse 10.
As for drlvm, it passes on windows xp but fails on redhat linux
enterprise 4. If somebody can reproduce it, I will report it as a
application-oriented bug to jira.
For detailed information, pls refer to
http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/Apache_Maven.



--
Richard Liang
China Software Development Lab, IBM 





Re: Harmony passes all tests of Maven 2.0.4

2006-11-12 Thread Leo Li

Ok. Posted it on wiki.

On 11/10/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


w00t!

Log it on the wiki!

(and please prefix your subject lines with ???  right now, we have
[testing] listed on

  http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html

but maybe we need to add [app-testing] ?

geir

Leo Li wrote:
 Hi, all:
 Harmony classlib at revision 473150 passes all tests of Maven 2.0.4on
 windows xp, redhat enterprise 4, unbuntu 6.0.6 and suse 10.
 As for drlvm, it passes on windows xp but fails on redhat linux
 enterprise 4. If somebody can reproduce it, I will report it as a
 application-oriented bug to jira.
 For detailed information, pls refer to
 http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/Apache_Maven.






--
Leo Li
China Software Development Lab, IBM


Re: [drlvm] release vs. debug

2006-11-12 Thread Evgueni Brevnov

Any assert(expr) can change a control flow of the debug build

On 11/12/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 11/10/06, Alexei Zakharov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Sure, contributors should check debug or even both debug and release
 builds
  and comment about this in JIRA.

 As far as I understand the only person who answers for the commit is a
 committer. So I don't think that establishing a policy that shifts a
 part of responsibility from the committer is a good idea.

 Well, I have another silly question to gurus indeed. Is there any
 possibility that some piece of code can break / hang the release build
 if it passes ok on the debug build?



 Theoretically it is possible to have problems on release build even if
debug build passes the checks. More sofisticated optimizations applied in
release build may reveal some subtle error in the code. Practically tis is
not a common case though.

Thanks,
Pavel

Thanks,

 2006/11/10, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  Sure, contributors should check debug or even both debug and release
 builds
  and comment about this in JIRA.
 
  I'm talking about committers, will they test debug build which takes 5
 times
  more time? And does it mean they will be able to apply 5 times less
 patches?
 
 
  Actually I'm fine if the committers will check both debug and release
 builds
  and I encourage them to check on all supported platforms. But I'm not a
  committer. :)
 
  Thanks,
  Pavel
 
 
  On 11/10/06, Rana Dasgupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   I can understand that the contributor may not have access to multiple
   platforms, but surely he can test using both debug and release builds
 :-)
   What do we gain by asking the contributor to test less?
  
   Rana
  
  
   On 11/9/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
+1 for debug testing before submitting a patch.
   
But, for pre-commit testing we should be careful saying we'll test
 all
   the
patches in debug mode. Though it imprves quality of checks, debug
 build
   is
significantly slower then release, especially when running with
interpreter
or Jitrino.OPT. I ran build test on the DRLVM built in debug mode
 and
   it
takes about 5 times more time than release version on my laptop, The
   times
were as follows:
   
build test, Windows XP/ IA32:
DRLVM release: 22 min 55 sec
DRLVM debug: 99 min 23 sec
   
So, may be the good choice will be to ask patch submitters to check
   their
patches on the debug build and, if the JIRA issue contains comments
 that
this check is passed, committers may test it on release build only.
   
Thanks,
Pavel
   
On 11/10/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Well, since the problem is repeatable :)


 Gregory Shimansky wrote:
  Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
 
 
  Alexei Zakharov wrote:
  Hi DRLVM fans,
 
  I encountered a rather strange problem while working on some
 class
  library tests. At least two tests from the beans module hang
 (or
  crash) while running on DRLVM debug builds but work fine on
 DRLVM
  release builds. I thought that debug build is something about
   adding
  debug symbols to VM binaries and this should not affect the
  functionality. Can someone shed a light on this?
 
  I would think it's just an assertion firing...
 
  Actually it is more than that. In debug mode TRACE statements
 are
  compiled and therefore produce executable code. There may also
 be
   some
  bugs in compiler generating code in different modes (although
 this
  usually happens for release).
 
  I don't know why hanging happens, but the difference in
 generated
   code
  is actually quite big. Also assertions or any crashes go to
  exceptions/signal handlers which may happen to loop infinitely,
   there
  were bugs like this happening on the current version of sources,
   look
at
  HARMONY-2018 and HADMONY-2006.
 
  This is the first
  question. The second question - what we should do with such
 tests.
The
  tests pass on the downloadable HDK and JRE snapshots as well
 as on
  classlib + j9. What should be the commit criteria for DRLVM –
 i.e.
  what is the *true* build? :) I think many people here
 currently
   use
  snapshots to test their patches.
 
  debug :)  don't sweep the problems under the rug...
 
  +1



 --
 Alexei Zakharov,
 Intel Enterprise Solutions Software Division





Re: [drlvm] release vs. debug

2006-11-12 Thread Evgueni Brevnov

When the spec doesn't specify expression evaluation order debug and
release can behave differently. I got into such situation once... :-(

On 11/13/06, Evgueni Brevnov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Any assert(expr) can change a control flow of the debug build

On 11/12/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 11/10/06, Alexei Zakharov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   Sure, contributors should check debug or even both debug and release
  builds
   and comment about this in JIRA.
 
  As far as I understand the only person who answers for the commit is a
  committer. So I don't think that establishing a policy that shifts a
  part of responsibility from the committer is a good idea.
 
  Well, I have another silly question to gurus indeed. Is there any
  possibility that some piece of code can break / hang the release build
  if it passes ok on the debug build?



  Theoretically it is possible to have problems on release build even if
 debug build passes the checks. More sofisticated optimizations applied in
 release build may reveal some subtle error in the code. Practically tis is
 not a common case though.

 Thanks,
 Pavel

 Thanks,
 
  2006/11/10, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   Sure, contributors should check debug or even both debug and release
  builds
   and comment about this in JIRA.
  
   I'm talking about committers, will they test debug build which takes 5
  times
   more time? And does it mean they will be able to apply 5 times less
  patches?
  
  
   Actually I'm fine if the committers will check both debug and release
  builds
   and I encourage them to check on all supported platforms. But I'm not a
   committer. :)
  
   Thanks,
   Pavel
  
  
   On 11/10/06, Rana Dasgupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
I can understand that the contributor may not have access to multiple
platforms, but surely he can test using both debug and release builds
  :-)
What do we gain by asking the contributor to test less?
   
Rana
   
   
On 11/9/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 +1 for debug testing before submitting a patch.

 But, for pre-commit testing we should be careful saying we'll test
  all
the
 patches in debug mode. Though it imprves quality of checks, debug
  build
is
 significantly slower then release, especially when running with
 interpreter
 or Jitrino.OPT. I ran build test on the DRLVM built in debug mode
  and
it
 takes about 5 times more time than release version on my laptop, The
times
 were as follows:

 build test, Windows XP/ IA32:
 DRLVM release: 22 min 55 sec
 DRLVM debug: 99 min 23 sec

 So, may be the good choice will be to ask patch submitters to check
their
 patches on the debug build and, if the JIRA issue contains comments
  that
 this check is passed, committers may test it on release build only.

 Thanks,
 Pavel

 On 11/10/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Well, since the problem is repeatable :)
 
 
  Gregory Shimansky wrote:
   Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
  
  
   Alexei Zakharov wrote:
   Hi DRLVM fans,
  
   I encountered a rather strange problem while working on some
  class
   library tests. At least two tests from the beans module hang
  (or
   crash) while running on DRLVM debug builds but work fine on
  DRLVM
   release builds. I thought that debug build is something about
adding
   debug symbols to VM binaries and this should not affect the
   functionality. Can someone shed a light on this?
  
   I would think it's just an assertion firing...
  
   Actually it is more than that. In debug mode TRACE statements
  are
   compiled and therefore produce executable code. There may also
  be
some
   bugs in compiler generating code in different modes (although
  this
   usually happens for release).
  
   I don't know why hanging happens, but the difference in
  generated
code
   is actually quite big. Also assertions or any crashes go to
   exceptions/signal handlers which may happen to loop infinitely,
there
   were bugs like this happening on the current version of sources,
look
 at
   HARMONY-2018 and HADMONY-2006.
  
   This is the first
   question. The second question - what we should do with such
  tests.
 The
   tests pass on the downloadable HDK and JRE snapshots as well
  as on
   classlib + j9. What should be the commit criteria for DRLVM –
  i.e.
   what is the *true* build? :) I think many people here
  currently
use
   snapshots to test their patches.
  
   debug :)  don't sweep the problems under the rug...
  
   +1
 
 
 
  --
  Alexei Zakharov,
  Intel Enterprise Solutions Software Division
 





Re: [Cocoon] Cocoon 2.1.9 works on Harmony

2006-11-12 Thread Anton Rusanov

I've run the Cocoon htmlunit tests.
There are failures in tests, the most common problem is jpeg codec.
Some tests fail because they test redirection which it is disabled.
I'm seeking where to turn it on.
Test run hangs both on RI and Harmony at
org.apache.cocoon.CachingPipelineTestCase. I have not currently found
a way to exclude it. :(


2006/11/9, Tim Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Anton Rusanov wrote:
 Cocoon 2.1.9 now works on Harmony (IBM VME + Classlib)!
 It starts and works normally.

Are you running the Cocoon test suites?  We should declare 'it works'
when it passes all it's own test cases when running on Harmony.

Regards,
Tim

--

Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
IBM Java technology centre, UK.




--
Thanks,
Anton


Re: [general] Sun will take GPL License?

2006-11-12 Thread Jin Mingjian

Mark Reinhold's blog has confirmed this news. He said:
...
Sun is open-sourcing its entire Java stack―ME, SE, and EE―under the
GNU General Public License, version 2.

The license choice―which has taken many by surprise (gotcha!)―is a
giant leap. For more on the big picture, including a link to
tomorrow's webcast announcement, please see
http://sun.com/opensource/java.
...

link: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/one_giant_leap


Re: [drlvm][jvmti] Profiling support - Compiled Method Load event

2006-11-12 Thread George Timoshenko

There is one more PRO for the second approach.
There is already some implementation of required functionality in svn.
It is being controlled by exe_notify_compile_method_load flag.

The patch with this flag attached to the JIRA issue.
It appends exe_notify_compile_method_load flag into the 
OpenMethodExecutionParam struct (FALSE by default).


When the flag is turned on code emitter runs sendCompiledMethodLoadEvent 
for each method that was compiled during current compilation session.


Here is the current implementation of sendCompiledMethodLoadEvent (in 
DrlVMInterface.cpp):


void DrlVMCompilationInterface::sendCompiledMethodLoadEvent(MethodDesc * 
methodDesc,

uint32 codeSize, void* codeAddr, uint32 mapLength,
AddrLocation* addrLocationMap, void* compileInfo) {

// VM-JIT interface function should be called here instead of logging
if (Log::isEnabled()) {
Log::out() ** Inlined method: 
 methodDesc-getName()  std::endl;
Log::out() ** Number of locations:  mapLength
 std::endl;
}
}

sendCompiledMethodLoadEvent ‘s signature AFAIU is exactly the same as 
the one from SPEC.


So all we need IMO is to insert into sendCompiledMethodLoadEvent a call 
to VM that raises necessary event. (as it was supposed in the comment in 
sendCompiledMethodLoadEvent)


Is the extension of the OpenMethodExecutionParam struct appropriate?

Which call should be inserted into sendCompiledMethodLoadEvent at place 
of logging?






Eugene Ostrovsky wrote:
Opended issue  
*HARMONY-2145https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2145

* .





To support the feature VM need to know about those inlined methods. Right
now I can see two possible approaches:

1. When VM initiates method compilation, it can ask the jit about methods
that were inlined to compiled method and report all of them.
2. JIT itself can notify VM about every compiled method by calling some
special interface function after the method compilation.




Re: [drlvm] Class unloading support

2006-11-12 Thread Aleksey Ignatenko

Weldon, I've created separate jira H-2158 called native resource cleanup.
So you can proceed with closing H-2000.

Aleksey.


On 11/10/06, Weldon Washburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 11/10/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wonder if you might want to create a new JIRA that's clear about what
 the point is, and close the class unload JIRa for now.



I was hoping someone would suggest closing HARMONY-2000.  Unless there are
objections in the next 24 hours, consider it done.


geir


 Pavel Pervov wrote:
  On 11/10/06, Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hang on - we aren't going to consider this patch quite yet, are
we?  We
  have a very active and fruitful discussion going on regarding
alternate
  approaches?
 
  geir
 
 
  This part of the patch does not contain class unloading implementation
  but instead contain native resources cleanup code, which is required
by
 any
  choosen class unloading design to be implemented in DRLVM.
  So, my +1 to commit this part, and hold on with the second, until
  harmony-dev derives the decision.
 
  Regards




--
Weldon Washburn
Intel Enterprise Solutions Software Division




Re: [testing] Tests scores on http://harmonytest.org Was: [DRLVM] General stability

2006-11-12 Thread Anton Luht

Alexei,


I like your approach to result comparison. 10% can be default value
for some form field - anyone can change it if needed.


OK, let's try it and see if it satisfies the community/


Probably more conventional would be to parse
system-out![CDATA[]]/system-out for some metric. Does the site
already parse TEST-* files?


It parses TESTS-TestSuites.xml  - as far as I can see, it contains the
same information as TEST-* files. Is there a common format of output
of stress tests you're talking about?




Thank you, Alexei

On 11/10/06, Anton Luht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello, Alexei,

  I have related question. How can we improve http://harmonytest.org to
  make it possible to publish not just pass, fail, or error but numeric
  test scores?

 Easily - test results in JUnit reports have 'time' property -
 execution time in seconds. We can import and show them in the results.
 What else is needed? Maybe add something like 'show regressions' to
 the the 'compare runs' page? For example, show tests that increased
 execution time by more than 10% sorted by increase rate desc?

 --
 Regards,
 Anton Luht,
 Intel Java  XML Engineering



--
Thank you,
Alexei




--
Regards,
Anton Luht,
Intel Java  XML Engineering



Re: [general] Sun will take GPL License?

2006-11-12 Thread LvJimmy,Jing

Oops!GPL v2? I can hardly believe it!
Does it mean, all codes using Sun's JDK have to take GPL?
Crazy and unbelieveable... However I like GPL ;)

在06-11-13,Jin Mingjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] 写道:


Mark Reinhold's blog has confirmed this news. He said:
...
Sun is open-sourcing its entire Java stack―ME, SE, and EE―under the
GNU General Public License, version 2.

The license choice―which has taken many by surprise (gotcha!)―is a
giant leap. For more on the big picture, including a link to
tomorrow's webcast announcement, please see
http://sun.com/opensource/java.
...

link: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/one_giant_leap





--

Best Regards!

Jimmy, Jing Lv
China Software Development Lab, IBM


Re: [drlvm][test]Exclude some tests from build test target, make 'build test' pass

2006-11-12 Thread Evgueni Brevnov

HI,

Do we have strong reasons to run all kernel tests in three different
modes before commit? Probably, it makes sense to choose two or three
most powerful tests and include them to smoke?

Evgueni

On 11/12/06, Pavel Pervov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In addition to excluding some tests, I would suggest removing
smoke/classloader/ClassTestGetDeclaringClass as it is exact copy of kernel
test with the same name.
Also, smoke/classloader/ExceptionInInitializerTest must be returned to
acceptance runs.

Pavel.

On 10/25/06, Volynets, Vera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Geir
 Some tests launched by command build test fail.
 The idea of  build test is to run it before each commit. In this way you
 can catch regressions.
 In order to effectively catch regressions, i.e. tests that started to fail
 after some change,
 it's necessary to have 'build test' pass in a stable way. One of the ways
 to achieve stable state
 is to exclude failing tests or tests which show unstable behavior.
 So I analysed statistics of test runs on win ia32 platform and made up a
 list of tests to be excluded:
 1) smoke
 *** gc.LOS fails always on jitrino and interpreter, debug and release
 2) kernel
 *** java.lang.ClasssGenericsTest and
 *** java.lang.ClassGenericsTest4 fail because of timeout, so I  increase
 timeout in kernel.test.xml
 *** java.lang.ObjectTest fail on interpreter with following message:
 Testsuite: java.lang.ObjectTest
 Tests run: 18, Failures: 1, Errors: 0, Time elapsed: 6.109 sec
 Testcase: testWait1(java.lang.ObjectTest): FAILED
 An InterruptedException must be thrown in test thread!
junit.framework.AssertionFailedError: An InterruptedException must be
 thrown in test thread!

 See HARNONY-1966 issue with attached patch.


 Vera Volynets
 Intel Middleware ProductsDivision




--
Pavel Pervov,
Intel Enterprise Solutions Software Division




Re: [general] Sun will take GPL License?

2006-11-12 Thread Jin Mingjian

GPL is not very compatible with Apache License. So, I guess Sun want
to prevent Harmony from using any codes they owned?! Very Very Very...

在 06-11-13,LvJimmy,Jing[EMAIL PROTECTED] 写道:

Oops!GPL v2? I can hardly believe it!
Does it mean, all codes using Sun's JDK have to take GPL?
Crazy and unbelieveable... However I like GPL ;)

在06-11-13,Jin Mingjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] 写道:

 Mark Reinhold's blog has confirmed this news. He said:
 ...
 Sun is open-sourcing its entire Java stack―ME, SE, and EE―under the
 GNU General Public License, version 2.

 The license choice―which has taken many by surprise (gotcha!)―is a
 giant leap. For more on the big picture, including a link to
 tomorrow's webcast announcement, please see
 http://sun.com/opensource/java.
 ...

 link: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/one_giant_leap




--

Best Regards!

Jimmy, Jing Lv
China Software Development Lab, IBM



[doc] Anybody tried DRLVM+Eclipse and can share? [WAS: Re: FW: [build] Building on Eclipse - FYI]

2006-11-12 Thread Morozova, Nadezhda
Resending the email. Really sad that we haven't received any feedback
yet. 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

-Original Message-
From: Morozova, Nadezhda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:11 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Anybody tried DRLVM+Eclipse and can share? [WAS: Re: FW:
[build] Building on Eclipse - FYI]

Folks, 

Has anybody tried working with DRLVM in Eclipse? did you have to screw
it before it ran ok? Do you have anything to share? Let's write a doc! 

Background
We've been trying to gather useful info on working with Eclipse and our
code base. Eclipse+classlib page has been updated, see JIRA H2009.
The only drlvm-oriented doc that mentions Eclipse is Getting Started
with DRLVM. The doc is terrifically outdated. 

If anybody has relevant updates, we could update the document/write a
new one/add to eclipse+classlib page to make it cover both vm and
classlib. Volunteers? 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova

ps: I'm just rewriting Egor's idea from the email below to attract more
people's attention 
 

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 7:41 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: FW: [build] Building on Eclipse - FYI

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Geir Magnusson, Jr. wrote:
 Egor Pasko wrote:
  On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Geir Magnusson, Jr. wrote:
  Egor Pasko wrote:
  On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Geir Magnusson, Jr. wrote:
  Egor Pasko wrote:
  On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Sian January wrote:
  Hello again,
 
  I have had a closer look at the  Developing Apache Harmony
Class-library
  Code with Eclipse page, and I have noticed that the
Configuring Eclipse
  and Develop and Test Code sections are quite class-library
specific.
  Would it be better to leave those sections as they are and add
a Developing
  DRLVM with Eclipse section on the same page?
  To the moment I am not aware of anybody who would use Eclipse
for
  DRLVM development. So, it's too early to add a page like this.
  This will ensure that no one does then - if it's simple to add,
lets
  add it...
  Does it help anybody? I see no point in doing redundant work even
if
  it is small.
  Why is it redundant?
  Nobody uses, nobody reads - redundant. Am I missing something? :)
 
 if we don't have it, of course nobody uses or reads it...

OK. Let me put it the other way. If someone has something valuable,
not obvious to write about DRLVM+Eclipse, I am for it. If the page is
going to be just a long-living stub, I am not happy.

-- 
Egor Pasko


Re: [drlvm][jvmti][testing] I want to add JVMTI tests to drlvm commit checks

2006-11-12 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.



Gregory Shimansky wrote:

On Sunday 12 November 2006 00:39 Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

Ok I think I've come up with a reasonable compromise. I still used the
whole system of converting XML and all the stuff. It does quite a lot of
things in setup and init targets and using select is convenient. I
don't know how to untangle all of the setup and not do a lot of
duplication in ant scripting which I am not big expert in.

Why?  Why do we want to persist with this system, when WE ARE GOING TO
GET RID OF IT at some point?


One reason would be is that I don't know ant well enough to redesign the whole 
stuff all together. I used the existing setup and init targets which take 
care of including ancontrip and cctask jars.


If you ask me, I'd prefer make in the first place, ant is just too foreign to 
me. There is no reason to use caps, we didn't even start to discuss how we 
want to see drlvm build and when WE ARE GOING TO GET RID OF IT at some 
point.


The caps were to get your attention.  I thought you had a nice way to 
create a standalone testbed and then hook that in.





Did you also fix the silliness of having to use annotations to exclude
tests?  Please? :)


No, the patch has an exclude example using and exclude statement in 
patternset in its beginning.


Yay!




I'm glad we have these tests, but really...  I wish you hadn't invested
the time integrating it into the DRLVM build system...


Even if we write a new one from scratch I want the tests right now. There were 
several times when JVMTI was broken since there were no tests for it at all 
since it is a special VM mode no one usually uses.


That's not the issue - we all agree we need the tests right now.  What 
I'm arguing about is doing the tests, and then doing the integration 
into a build system we don't want.




The time invested, well... I learned a lot since the last time I used ant. 
Maybe one day I'll be able to write something as impressive and 
unmaintainable as the current drlvm built :)


Seriously, if we're going to change it, let's discuss it how we want it to 
look like and which tool we'll use. I vote for make (gnu version, that is 
gmake), even on win32 it exists in cygwin and mingw.




I think that we should simply use the same tooling that we're using now 
in classlib.


geir



Re: [general] Sun will take GPL License?

2006-11-12 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.


LvJimmy,Jing wrote:
 Oops!GPL v2? I can hardly believe it!

Why?

 Does it mean, all codes using Sun's JDK have to take GPL?

No.

geir

 Crazy and unbelieveable... However I like GPL ;)
 
 在06-11-13,Jin Mingjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] 写道:

 Mark Reinhold's blog has confirmed this news. He said:
 ...
 Sun is open-sourcing its entire Java stack―ME, SE, and EE―under the
 GNU General Public License, version 2.

 The license choice―which has taken many by surprise (gotcha!)―is a
 giant leap. For more on the big picture, including a link to
 tomorrow's webcast announcement, please see
 http://sun.com/opensource/java.
 ...

 link: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/one_giant_leap

 
 
 


Re: [general] Sun will take GPL License?

2006-11-12 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.


Jin Mingjian wrote:
 GPL is not very compatible with Apache License. So, I guess Sun want
 to prevent Harmony from using any codes they owned?! Very Very Very...

No - it was simply about control.

geir

 
 在 06-11-13,LvJimmy,Jing[EMAIL PROTECTED] 写道:
 Oops!GPL v2? I can hardly believe it!
 Does it mean, all codes using Sun's JDK have to take GPL?
 Crazy and unbelieveable... However I like GPL ;)

 在06-11-13,Jin Mingjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] 写道:
 
  Mark Reinhold's blog has confirmed this news. He said:
  ...
  Sun is open-sourcing its entire Java stack―ME, SE, and EE―under the
  GNU General Public License, version 2.
 
  The license choice―which has taken many by surprise (gotcha!)―is a
  giant leap. For more on the big picture, including a link to
  tomorrow's webcast announcement, please see
  http://sun.com/opensource/java.
  ...
 
  link: http://blogs.sun.com/mr/entry/one_giant_leap
 



 -- 

 Best Regards!

 Jimmy, Jing Lv
 China Software Development Lab, IBM



Re: [doc] Anybody tried DRLVM+Eclipse and can share? [WAS: Re: FW: [build] Building on Eclipse - FYI]

2006-11-12 Thread Geir Magnusson Jr.

it's only been a few days, and you did it over a weekend...


Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:

Resending the email. Really sad that we haven't received any feedback
yet. 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 


-Original Message-
From: Morozova, Nadezhda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:11 PM

To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Anybody tried DRLVM+Eclipse and can share? [WAS: Re: FW:
[build] Building on Eclipse - FYI]

Folks, 


Has anybody tried working with DRLVM in Eclipse? did you have to screw
it before it ran ok? Do you have anything to share? Let's write a doc! 


Background
We've been trying to gather useful info on working with Eclipse and our
code base. Eclipse+classlib page has been updated, see JIRA H2009.
The only drlvm-oriented doc that mentions Eclipse is Getting Started
with DRLVM. The doc is terrifically outdated. 


If anybody has relevant updates, we could update the document/write a
new one/add to eclipse+classlib page to make it cover both vm and
classlib. Volunteers? 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova


ps: I'm just rewriting Egor's idea from the email below to attract more
people's attention 
 


-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 7:41 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: FW: [build] Building on Eclipse - FYI

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Geir Magnusson, Jr. wrote:

Egor Pasko wrote:

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Geir Magnusson, Jr. wrote:

Egor Pasko wrote:

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Geir Magnusson, Jr. wrote:

Egor Pasko wrote:

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Sian January wrote:

Hello again,

I have had a closer look at the  Developing Apache Harmony

Class-library

Code with Eclipse page, and I have noticed that the

Configuring Eclipse

and Develop and Test Code sections are quite class-library

specific.

Would it be better to leave those sections as they are and add

a Developing

DRLVM with Eclipse section on the same page?

To the moment I am not aware of anybody who would use Eclipse

for

DRLVM development. So, it's too early to add a page like this.

This will ensure that no one does then - if it's simple to add,

lets

add it...

Does it help anybody? I see no point in doing redundant work even

if

it is small.

Why is it redundant?

Nobody uses, nobody reads - redundant. Am I missing something? :)

if we don't have it, of course nobody uses or reads it...


OK. Let me put it the other way. If someone has something valuable,
not obvious to write about DRLVM+Eclipse, I am for it. If the page is
going to be just a long-living stub, I am not happy.