Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
Hello Tim, Friday, August 18, 2006, 8:23:16 PM, you wrote: I agree with that. The and = ... wasn't really an improvement over and xs = ... xs, and if the later is easier to read that's good. the main goal here is readability, of course What happened to isSpace, toLower and toUpper (, from the tutorial)? it seems that this list is incomplete. i don't found a lot of I/O routines, such as interact or getContents one more reason to move it to wiki :) I feel that Haskell is missing some basic string manipuation functions, like - replacing all occurances of one substring (or sublist) with another string (or list). - tokenize a string by an arbitrary delimeter MissingH library contains such routines, although it is gpl'ed there is a (lazy) movement to establish such library, but noone still started it. well, to write something new open-source programmer just opens project and waits for contribution :) who is darcs maintainer on haskell.org? -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
On Fri, Aug 18, 2006 at 04:46:14PM +0400, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Tim, Friday, August 18, 2006, 4:26:46 PM, you wrote: break p = span (not . p) it's definitely better and = foldr () True i think that definitions with omitted arguments can be more hrd to understand to newbie haskellers, especiallyones who not yet know the language. as Tamas suggests, this page can be used to present to such newbies taste of Haskell so listing all the parameters may allow to omit unnecessary complications in this first look into language I think I learned to understand and appreciate omitted arguments from Hal Daume's Yet Another Haskell Tutorial. The exercises there are just great. Tamas ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
[...] it's just a pleasure to see all those one-line definitions and feel how power the language should be to allow such cool things. It is indeed. I find these explicit definitions often much more instructive than purely implicit definitions. But, call me a nitpicker, some of the definitions are still a bit longish for my taste. For example: break :: (a - Bool) - [a] - ([a],[a]) break p xs = span http://undergraduate.csse.uwa.edu.au/units/230.301/lectureNotes/tourofprelude.html#span p' xs where p' x = not http://undergraduate.csse.uwa.edu.au/units/230.301/lectureNotes/tourofprelude.html#not (p x) could be written as: break p = span (not . p) or: and xs = foldr http://undergraduate.csse.uwa.edu.au/units/230.301/lectureNotes/tourofprelude.html#foldr () True xs as: and = foldr http://undergraduate.csse.uwa.edu.au/units/230.301/lectureNotes/tourofprelude.html#foldr () True While the second case is pure nitpicking, I find that the point-free definition is much easier to read in the first case. Any reason to use the point-wise notation there? Is it considered to be easier to read or understand? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
Oh my lord, I love how my newreader obfuscates my posts. = span http://undergraduate.csse.uwa.edu.au/units/230.301/lectureNotes/tourofprelude.html#span p' xs where p' x = not http://undergraduate.csse.uwa.edu.au/units/230.301/lectureNotes/tourofprelude.html#not (p x) = span p' xs where p' x = not (p x) could be written as: break p = span (not . p) or: and xs = foldr http://undergraduate.csse.uwa.edu.au/units/230.301/lectureNotes/tourofprelude.html#foldr () True xs and xs = foldr () True xs as: and = foldr http://undergraduate.csse.uwa.edu.au/units/230.301/lectureNotes/tourofprelude.html#foldr () True and = foldr () True Sorry, Tim ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
Hello Tim, Friday, August 18, 2006, 4:26:46 PM, you wrote: break p = span (not . p) it's definitely better and = foldr () True i think that definitions with omitted arguments can be more hrd to understand to newbie haskellers, especiallyones who not yet know the language. as Tamas suggests, this page can be used to present to such newbies taste of Haskell so listing all the parameters may allow to omit unnecessary complications in this first look into language -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
Bulat Ziganshin wrote: i think that definitions with omitted arguments can be more hrd to understand to newbie haskellers, especiallyones who not yet know the language. as Tamas suggests, this page can be used to present to such newbies taste of Haskell so listing all the parameters may allow to omit unnecessary complications in this first look into language I agree with that. The and = ... wasn't really an improvement over and xs = ... xs, and if the later is easier to read that's good. Btw.: What happened to isSpace, toLower and toUpper (, from the tutorial)? (I)sSpace must be there for words anyway, so I can't see why it's missing. (T)oLower and toUpper might have some subleties with internationalization and stuff, but they would be useful for me even as a poor man's version which can just convert A-Z, a-z and no umlauts. I feel that Haskell is missing some basic string manipuation functions, like - replacing all occurances of one substring (or sublist) with another string (or list). - tokenize a string by an arbitrary delimeter I know many of these functions can be written in Haskell without much effort. But I don't really want to invent isSpace for any program. Tim ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
On Aug 18, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Tim Walkenhorst wrote: Bulat Ziganshin wrote: i think that definitions with omitted arguments can be more hrd to understand to newbie haskellers, especiallyones who not yet know the language. as Tamas suggests, this page can be used to present to such newbies taste of Haskell so listing all the parameters may allow to omit unnecessary complications in this first look into language I agree with that. The and = ... wasn't really an improvement over and xs = ... xs, and if the later is easier to read that's good. Btw.: What happened to isSpace, toLower and toUpper (, from the tutorial)? (I)sSpace must be there for words anyway, so I can't see why it's missing. (T)oLower and toUpper might have some subleties with internationalization and stuff, but they would be useful for me even as a poor man's version which can just convert A-Z, a-z and no umlauts. http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/base/Data- Char.html I feel that Haskell is missing some basic string manipuation functions, like - replacing all occurances of one substring (or sublist) with another string (or list). - tokenize a string by an arbitrary delimeter I know many of these functions can be written in Haskell without much effort. But I don't really want to invent isSpace for any program. Tim Rob Dockins Speak softly and drive a Sherman tank. Laugh hard; it's a long way to the bank. -- TMBG ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
I feel that Haskell is missing some basic string manipuation functions, like - replacing all occurances of one substring (or sublist) with another string (or list). - tokenize a string by an arbitrary delimeter This came up not too long ago: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2006-July/thread.html#16559 Ironically this thread talks about how the same topic came up two years ago and no consensus was reached. So I made a skeleton page to discuss/maybe reach consensus on this. Please flesh it out and hack it to pieces! http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Prelude_function_suggestions I know many of these functions can be written in Haskell without much effort. Let the work begin (record opinions and any semblance of consensus). Jared. -- http://www.updike.org/~jared/ reverse )-: ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
On Thu, Aug 17, 2006 at 01:55:47AM +0400, Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello haskell-cafe, The http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Special:Popularpages page lists most popular pages on haskell wiki. I think this list is very useful because it shows us what are the questions about Haskell people most interested and gives us hints what should be improved in first place. The only catch is that most of popular pages are just ones listed on the title page. But nevertheless... On the other side, we can simplify title page by omitting links to page that are of little interest for casual readers (such as History). We can also add here links to most popular pages, such as GHC and Hitchhikers guide. Below is beginning of this list: Haskell (252,505 views) Introduction (50,091 views) Libraries and tools (41,864 views) Books and tutorials (40,040 views) Language and library specification (32,773 views) Haskell in practice (31,698 views) Implementations (24,141 views) GHC (20,634 views) Haskell in 5 steps (16,707 views) Learning (14,088 views) Hitchhikers guide to Haskell (13,191 views) Future (12,754 views) A link to A tour of the Haskell Prelude might be very useful for newbies (like me ;-) Tamas ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
Hello Tamas, Thursday, August 17, 2006, 11:14:22 AM, you wrote: Haskell (252,505 views) Introduction (50,091 views) Libraries and tools (41,864 views) Books and tutorials (40,040 views) Language and library specification (32,773 views) Haskell in practice (31,698 views) Implementations (24,141 views) GHC (20,634 views) Haskell in 5 steps (16,707 views) Learning (14,088 views) Hitchhikers guide to Haskell (13,191 views) Future (12,754 views) A link to A tour of the Haskell Prelude might be very useful for newbies (like me ;-) btw, it's listed on Learning page but it seems that newbies don't very much like it, preferring to go to Language Specification or at least Books page. what you think - why it is so unpopular? (i think that language specification is the last thing Haskeller should read, just when he goes to implementing his own private Haskell compiler :D ) -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
Hello Tamas, Thursday, August 17, 2006, 2:29:26 PM, you wrote: The link from http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Learning (to http://www.cs.uu.nl/~afie/haskell/tourofprelude.html) is dead, so is the one from Books_and_Tutorials. thank you. i have fixed both. btw, you can register himself on the wiki at http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/?title=Special:Userlogin and get rights to edit it yourself 1. I would move it from the Reference to the Introduction section. A reference is something you look at when you know what you are looking for. Also, it is at the bottom of the page, few would scroll that far. 2. How would newbies know what the Prelude is? Some tutorials mention it, but it is not emphasized that most functions they use come from the Prelude. Since they do not know that they need the Prelude, they are not interested in a tour of it. i agree with both points. it's a really helpful thing, with all its coloring, examples and even definitions. and it's of interest for very beginning Haskellers, may be even those who don't know anything about Haskell. it's just a pleasure to see all those one-line definitions and feel how power the language should be to allow such cool things. The only problem that makes it harder to learn is what functions are sorted in alphabetic order instead of be grouped by theme (math, lists, chars and strings, ordering, i/o, higher-order funcs and their applications) so we can move this to the Tutorials column, make better description (how about Tour of Haskell Prelude (basic functions)?) and i will try to reorganize it by splitting into the thematic sections -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Haskell wiki: most popular pages
Hello haskell-cafe, The http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Special:Popularpages page lists most popular pages on haskell wiki. I think this list is very useful because it shows us what are the questions about Haskell people most interested and gives us hints what should be improved in first place. The only catch is that most of popular pages are just ones listed on the title page. But nevertheless... On the other side, we can simplify title page by omitting links to page that are of little interest for casual readers (such as History). We can also add here links to most popular pages, such as GHC and Hitchhikers guide. Below is beginning of this list: Haskell (252,505 views) Introduction (50,091 views) Libraries and tools (41,864 views) Books and tutorials (40,040 views) Language and library specification (32,773 views) Haskell in practice (31,698 views) Implementations (24,141 views) GHC (20,634 views) Haskell in 5 steps (16,707 views) Learning (14,088 views) Hitchhikers guide to Haskell (13,191 views) Future (12,754 views) -- Best regards, Bulat mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
