Re: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris]
Hello Andrew, Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 9:26:45 PM, you wrote: It seems that the [Haskell] GLUT package isn't installed. at least i remember my own proposal to remove from GHC distribution graphics packages - because they are fat, rarely used and mostly outdated Hackage. ;-) But, alas, no. That doesn't work either. The reason? Well, apparently Cabal can't find sh. cabal by itself doesn't need sh. it's either required by library installation or it as just information message Not wanting to sound like somebody who just complains all day, but this kind of thing seems to be pretty typical of trying to get just about anything Haskell-related to work here. i agree. haskell world today is something like unix world 10 years ago. it attracts qualified people which step-by-step makes this world more attractive for casual users. but we are in the middle of the long road -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris]
Peter Verswyvelen wrote: No GLUT is not bundled with GHC 6.8.1 anymore. Yes, that is weird. I think it's weird too, so I bug reported it: http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/1917 Jules ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris]
Bulat Ziganshin wrote: Hello Andrew, Wednesday, November 21, 2007, 9:26:45 PM, you wrote: Hackage. ;-) But, alas, no. That doesn't work either. The reason? Well, apparently Cabal can't find sh. cabal by itself doesn't need sh. it's either required by library installation or it as just information message Cabal doesn't give me this message for other packages, so presumably something about GLUT makes Cabal think that sh is necessary. i agree. haskell world today is something like unix world 10 years ago. it attracts qualified people which step-by-step makes this world more attractive for casual users. but we are in the middle of the long road OK, so we agree a problem exists. Now, what can we do to solve it? :-) My first question would be: - Is there a viable alternative to sh scripts for installing packages? If there is, it would seem it's just an issue of getting everybody to migrate to it. If there isn't, it looks like we need to make one... ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris]
On Nov 22, 2007, at 14:22 , Andrew Coppin wrote: My first question would be: - Is there a viable alternative to sh scripts for installing packages? If there is, it would seem it's just an issue of getting everybody to migrate to it. If there isn't, it looks like we need to make one... ActiveState Perl? Unfortunately, as long as you can't guarantee everything being installed in consistent places and/or invoked in consistent ways (which on Windows is well-nigh impossible due to conflicting version requirements) you need a way to search the system for stuff. If you don't want to require that people on Windows have a reasonable scripting language installed for such, you get to bundle (or write) one. It would be nice if Windows devs had come up with something like pkg- config; it'd be possible to do a minimal implementation just using CMD.EXE scripts (don't bother with the full GNU pkg-config framework, just have each package bundle a %foo%-CONFIG.CMD that dumps locations, compiler flags, etc. in an easily parsed form) and then a relatively simple Haskell module could check for packages by running their config scripts. But this requires convincing all the non- Haskell third party libraries (GLUT, SDL, etc.) to add config scripts to their distributions; practically, I don't see this happening. -- brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] [EMAIL PROTECTED] system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] [EMAIL PROTECTED] electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon universityKF8NH ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
RE: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris]
No GLUT is not bundled with GHC 6.8.1 anymore. Yes, that is weird. It was bundled with GHC 6.6.1. But installing it for GHC 6.8.1 is really easy, but you have to install msys/mingw first. So if you want to do some experiments with OpenGL without having to install other stuff, use GHC 6.6.1. *** Don't give up, it's lots of fun once it works *** Yeah, Windows users are a bit second class citizens when it comes to Haskell, but that's the way it works. Personally I can understand that. Windows is really a mess. My first computer with a real OS was an Amiga, and I must say that I miss that elegance and simplicity in *all* modern OSes. For many people, Linux seems to have that elegance. Personally, I don't see it, but I don't see that in Windows either... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Coppin Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:27 PM To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris] Andrew Coppin wrote: Jeremy Shaw wrote: http://haskell-tetris.pbwiki.com/Main A minimal openGL haskell tetris clone: Neat! I shall have to give this a try... Negatro. I can't get this to work. :-( It seems that the [Haskell] GLUT package isn't installed. That's really weird - I'm *sure* it used to be bundled with GHC, and I can't see anything in any release notes to say it has been removed. And the online Haddoc documentation states that it's there. But my local copy says it isn't, and ghc-pkg says it isn't. OpenGL is instilled, but not GLUT. Oh well, that's pretty weird, but it's OK, I'll just install GLUT from Hackage. ;-) But, alas, no. That doesn't work either. The reason? Well, apparently Cabal can't find sh. This is probably related to the fact that sh doesn't exist on my computer. On further inspection, it seems that part of the installation routine is written as a bash script. Oh cool. At this point, I gave up. Not wanting to sound like somebody who just complains all day, but this kind of thing seems to be pretty typical of trying to get just about anything Haskell-related to work here. (I also elided the minor detail that I first had to work out how to extract files from a Tar/GZip file. It's common on Unix, but Windows doesn't know what to make of it. Fortunately, I happen to know the right 3rd party tools to fix this; I'm not sure if everyone else who might try to use Haskell stuff does.) In short, lots of Haskell-related things seem to be extremely Unix-centric and downright unfriendly towards anybody trying to set things up on Windows. If I didn't already know a bit about Unix, I'd be *really* stuck! Now, I have two questions for the cafe: 1. Did GHC ever include GLUT? Or is my memory really that defective? I'm *sure* it used to... but I don't see any note to say it was removed, so maybe it was only ever there on Unix? 2. Can anybody think of a way I can actually get this Tetris program to work? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
RE: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris]
Andrew, I tried the Tetris with GHC 6.6.1 on Windows, and it works out of the box. Of course you must make sure a suitable GLUT32.DLL is in your path. However, it's not really a nice tetris is it :) And it is very monadic. I wrote a Tetris clone once on the Amiga. But I won't do that again. And personally I prefer Bombliss. I multiplayer version over the network of Bombliss would be a really nice Haskell project :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Verswyvelen Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:11 PM To: 'Andrew Coppin'; haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: RE: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris] No GLUT is not bundled with GHC 6.8.1 anymore. Yes, that is weird. It was bundled with GHC 6.6.1. But installing it for GHC 6.8.1 is really easy, but you have to install msys/mingw first. So if you want to do some experiments with OpenGL without having to install other stuff, use GHC 6.6.1. *** Don't give up, it's lots of fun once it works *** Yeah, Windows users are a bit second class citizens when it comes to Haskell, but that's the way it works. Personally I can understand that. Windows is really a mess. My first computer with a real OS was an Amiga, and I must say that I miss that elegance and simplicity in *all* modern OSes. For many people, Linux seems to have that elegance. Personally, I don't see it, but I don't see that in Windows either... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Coppin Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:27 PM To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris] Andrew Coppin wrote: Jeremy Shaw wrote: http://haskell-tetris.pbwiki.com/Main A minimal openGL haskell tetris clone: Neat! I shall have to give this a try... Negatro. I can't get this to work. :-( It seems that the [Haskell] GLUT package isn't installed. That's really weird - I'm *sure* it used to be bundled with GHC, and I can't see anything in any release notes to say it has been removed. And the online Haddoc documentation states that it's there. But my local copy says it isn't, and ghc-pkg says it isn't. OpenGL is instilled, but not GLUT. Oh well, that's pretty weird, but it's OK, I'll just install GLUT from Hackage. ;-) But, alas, no. That doesn't work either. The reason? Well, apparently Cabal can't find sh. This is probably related to the fact that sh doesn't exist on my computer. On further inspection, it seems that part of the installation routine is written as a bash script. Oh cool. At this point, I gave up. Not wanting to sound like somebody who just complains all day, but this kind of thing seems to be pretty typical of trying to get just about anything Haskell-related to work here. (I also elided the minor detail that I first had to work out how to extract files from a Tar/GZip file. It's common on Unix, but Windows doesn't know what to make of it. Fortunately, I happen to know the right 3rd party tools to fix this; I'm not sure if everyone else who might try to use Haskell stuff does.) In short, lots of Haskell-related things seem to be extremely Unix-centric and downright unfriendly towards anybody trying to set things up on Windows. If I didn't already know a bit about Unix, I'd be *really* stuck! Now, I have two questions for the cafe: 1. Did GHC ever include GLUT? Or is my memory really that defective? I'm *sure* it used to... but I don't see any note to say it was removed, so maybe it was only ever there on Unix? 2. Can anybody think of a way I can actually get this Tetris program to work? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris]
Peter Verswyvelen wrote: No GLUT is not bundled with GHC 6.8.1 anymore. Yes, that is weird. It was bundled with GHC 6.6.1. But installing it for GHC 6.8.1 is really easy, but you have to install msys/mingw first. This is handled in Ruby-land by having binary packages available for Windows, either cross-compiled or donated by someone with an appropriate compiler. Would that be a possible here? Just a thought. -- Alex ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] More problems [Tetris]
Peter Verswyvelen wrote: No GLUT is not bundled with GHC 6.8.1 anymore. Yes, that is weird. It was bundled with GHC 6.6.1. OK, so it was there, but now it isn't, and this fact isn't documented. Should I file a ticket for this? (To get the release notes amended if nothing else.) Was GLUT removed on purpose, or was this an oversight? (Is it still there on Unix?) But installing it for GHC 6.8.1 is really easy, but you have to install msys/mingw first. Not keen on installing a Unix emulator just so I can install stuff from Hackage. (Surely this shouldn't be necessary?) So if you want to do some experiments with OpenGL without having to install other stuff, use GHC 6.6.1. I'm only trying to get this Tetris program to work. I'm more likely to want to play with Cairo or SDL. ;-) *** Don't give up, it's lots of fun once it works *** LOL! I'm sure. ;-) Yeah, Windows users are a bit second class citizens when it comes to Haskell, but that's the way it works. Personally I can understand that. Well, they say there aren't many Windows users which makes it harder to test. I can understand that... Heck, if I knew what buttons to press, I'd have a go at improving the situation. (We already fixed is so that the new streams thing on Hackage works out-of-the-box on Windows now... or at least will do with the next release of Cabal.) Windows is really a mess. My first computer with a real OS was an Amiga, and I must say that I miss that elegance and simplicity in *all* modern OSes. For many people, Linux seems to have that elegance. Personally, I don't see it, but I don't see that in Windows either... I too have an Amiga sitting next to my desk. Windows suffers from extreme featuritus. Worse even than Yahoo! does. Unix seems to suffer from being an ah-hoc thing encrusted with 28,000 layers of backwards compatibility. It's far too messy for my liking. Much more *reliable* than Windows, but seemingly no more elegant conceptually. I keep dreaming that one day I'll write a propper OS... but (surprise!) it hasn't happened yet. Anyway, this is drifting radically off-topic! ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
