Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question
Personally I love the Prisma for volume and the tape. I know many have bad opinions, but I wish I had both the Prisma and the tape right now! I have never seen any problems with very old ( 15+ year) slides. using the tape. Not saying it can't happen-but have not personally seen it. The tape is easier to get off if you need to versus old glass CS, just use acetone, acetone/xylene, xylene. Comes off in a gel form and slides right off leaving the tissue intact. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: ro...@labcorp.com To: pat...@gmail.com; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 12:18:46 + Subject: Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Paula Here are my two cents I currently use a Leica Autostainer XL with attached glass coverslipper. It is consistent in its staining and easy to use. The downfall is if you are a large volume lab or just have large volume days, each staining rack holds 30 slides and only one rack can be stained in each batch. The stainer also only has one on board oven, so the throughput of this machine is fairly low. It is only staining 30 slides at a time, with one holding station for the next set. It will run multiple batches concurrently, but gets to a point where it is all backed up. We sometimes have 2 racks staining, one in the oven, one in the loading dock, and some sitting on top of the stainer until it can go on. On the flip side, the Sakura Prisma is a workhorse. It is very similar to the Leica in the sense that it is linear and very consistent in staining. It has two on board ovens and each basket can hold 20 slides. The difference is that the Sakura can stain 3 racks (60 slides) per batch, with two batches in the oven at the same time. That gives you 120 slide throughput for each batch. This stainer also has an attached coverslipper (Sakura Film), but it is film coverslips. I know, I know.no one likes the film coverslips. One advantage to the film, is that the slides are dry almost immediately and can be filed away the same day. No waiting for 3-4 days for the glass ones to fully cure. I can say that the last lab I worked in had the film coverslips and after 10 years, the slides were still in pristine condition. There are many pathologists that do not like to read film covered slides, but once ours got used to it, they had no problems. Some say the film yellows or comes of f with the tissue still attached. I can say that I never seen this in my past position. It is very dependent on Xylene only during coverslipping. You cannot use a xylene substitute in the coverslip portion and expect to get good results. Hope it helpsgood luck. Lisa -Original Message- From: Paula Sicurello [mailto:pat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:04 PM To: HistoNet Subject: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Me again... UCSD is in the market for a new HE stainer for our new hospital opening next year. We need a workhorse, not a prima dona, something with a coverslipper built in would be nice. What do you use? Suggestions gratefully accepted-even from you two Keith and Matt ;) Opinions about the good, the bad, and the ugly (as long as it works really well) will be helpful. Thanks oodles! Paula :-) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -This e-mail and any attachments may contain CONFIDENTIAL information, including PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or disclosure of this information is STRICTLY PROHIBITED; you are requested to delete this e-mail and any attachments, notify the sender immediately, and notify the LabCorp Privacy Officer at privacyoffi...@labcorp.com or call (877) 23-HIPAA / (877) 234-4722. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question
Look at all the automated HE stain instruments on the market. I suggest that you consider those that offer the best benefit to your workload and workflow. Instruments that utilize the concept of co-location (related tasks linked together; oven fro drying, flexible stain configuration and Coverslipping) will assist you in developing a LEAN workflow. Consider how many times you need to touch the slides to complete all the tasks and how much walk away time you gain. I do not suggest by-passing the validated staining instrument oven. Placing slides in another oven creates variation and often results in short and extended drying times. All automated HE stain instruments should be used according to manufacturer recommendation. My experience is that when shortcuts are used, quality suffers. The automated HE stain instruments have great through put and you should adjust workflow to maximize the designated batch size and stain time. Film coverslip lasts longer than 7 years. Sakura film is the best and has testing to exceed 10 years. I have used it for 13 years and never had the film peel. If you use the knock off film products, they only have short term accelerated stability testing and probably do not have any version of their many changes to the emulsion that have real time stability testing to exceed 10 years. There are reasons to use glass and reasons to use film. Both are great products, when you use them correctly and purchase quality products. Glass automated cover slip options on instruments do have more required maintenance than film. CAP has made no statement about film cover slipping. In fact, the Hologic (was Cytech) Cytology Thinprep system is FDA approved with film as the cover slip and the stained and film cover slipped Thinprep slide is digitally scanned for analysis. To be CAP compliant, you must keep blocks and slides for 10 years. With the advancement of cancer hospital protocols and molecular testing, many institutions are considering retaining blocks and slides beyond 10 years. Keeping blocks and slides longer than regulation requires introduces a large risk factor for the retaining institution and pathologists. Always be forward thinking when considering the purchase of a new essential instrument. Will it bar code read, can it be interfaced to LIS or tracking system, what analytics can be extract and will the instrument help or hinder a LEAN workflow? There are many choices that will meet your basic needs, but which one meets your essential needs? William DeSalvo, BS HTL(ASCP) From: sim...@upmc.edu To: ro...@labcorp.com; pat...@gmail.com; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 12:32:43 + Subject: Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question To be fair, a batch of slides for Leica is actually 270- slides, It can run 9 racks at a time, but, the 9th rack from start to coverslip is 3 hours+ You can always skip the on-board oven and place your slides in a slide dryer (most labs have them) and then every 3 minutes you can load a rack (1st xylene step 3 minutes) Then it goes much faster. As for tape..ugh..it is only guaranteed to last 7 years, after that they pull off the slide and take the tissue with it. CAP is starting to frown on this as you need to keep the initial HE slides for up to 10+ years. Chris Simmons B.S., A.S., HTL(ASCP) Supervisor, UPP Dermatopathology 412.864.3880 office 412.612.0881 cell -Original Message- From: Roy, Lisa [mailto:ro...@labcorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 8:19 AM To: Paula Sicurello; HistoNet Subject: Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Paula Here are my two cents I currently use a Leica Autostainer XL with attached glass coverslipper. It is consistent in its staining and easy to use. The downfall is if you are a large volume lab or just have large volume days, each staining rack holds 30 slides and only one rack can be stained in each batch. The stainer also only has one on board oven, so the throughput of this machine is fairly low. It is only staining 30 slides at a time, with one holding station for the next set. It will run multiple batches concurrently, but gets to a point where it is all backed up. We sometimes have 2 racks staining, one in the oven, one in the loading dock, and some sitting on top of the stainer until it can go on. On the flip side, the Sakura Prisma is a workhorse. It is very similar to the Leica in the sense that it is linear and very consistent in staining. It has two on board ovens and each basket can hold 20 slides. The difference is that the Sakura can stain 3 racks (60 slides) per batch, with two batches in the oven at the same time. That gives you 120 slide throughput for each batch. This stainer also has an attached coverslipper (Sakura Film), but it is film coverslips. I know, I know.no one likes the film coverslips. One advantage to the film, is that the slides
Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question
I agree with William tape from anyone else but Sakura is not worth the time and effort. We were just CAP inspected and they said nothing about tape. I have had issues with tape and usually just cut around the sample on the tape and recover on a slide, works beautifully. As far as the oven time is essential and we do use an outside oven but validated using it. I agree to purchase a Leica with an attached cover slipper better lean approach. Stainers that use proprietary reagents bring costs up and in this day and age hospitals re putting us on a tighter budget. Just my 2 cents S paturzo ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question
This is what we have Leica) and it has 4 ovens. http://www.leica-microsystems.com/news-media/news/news-details/article/leica-st5020-multistainer-workstation/ We also have a Prisma and we like them both. We have had the Leica longer and it just never breaks down.knock on wood! We have to have glass coverslips and the Prisma glass coverslipper is a bit more finicky than the Leica. -Original Message- From: Roy, Lisa [mailto:ro...@labcorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 8:19 AM To: Paula Sicurello; HistoNet Subject: Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Paula Here are my two cents I currently use a Leica Autostainer XL with attached glass coverslipper. It is consistent in its staining and easy to use. The downfall is if you are a large volume lab or just have large volume days, each staining rack holds 30 slides and only one rack can be stained in each batch. The stainer also only has one on board oven, so the throughput of this machine is fairly low. It is only staining 30 slides at a time, with one holding station for the next set. It will run multiple batches concurrently, but gets to a point where it is all backed up. We sometimes have 2 racks staining, one in the oven, one in the loading dock, and some sitting on top of the stainer until it can go on. On the flip side, the Sakura Prisma is a workhorse. It is very similar to the Leica in the sense that it is linear and very consistent in staining. It has two on board ovens and each basket can hold 20 slides. The difference is that the Sakura can stain 3 racks (60 slides) per batch, with two batches in the oven at the same time. That gives you 120 slide throughput for each batch. This stainer also has an attached coverslipper (Sakura Film), but it is film coverslips. I know, I know.no one likes the film coverslips. One advantage to the film, is that the slides are dry almost immediately and can be filed away the same day. No waiting for 3-4 days for the glass ones to fully cure. I can say that the last lab I worked in had the film coverslips and after 10 years, the slides were still in pristine condition. There are many pathologists that do not like to read film covered slides, but once ours got used to it, they had no problems. Some say the film yellows or comes off with the tissue still attached. I can say that I never seen this in my past position. It is very dependent on Xylene only during coverslipping. You cannot use a xylene substitute in the coverslip portion and expect to get good results. Hope it helpsgood luck. Lisa -Original Message- From: Paula Sicurello [mailto:pat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:04 PM To: HistoNet Subject: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Me again... UCSD is in the market for a new HE stainer for our new hospital opening next year. We need a workhorse, not a prima dona, something with a coverslipper built in would be nice. What do you use? Suggestions gratefully accepted-even from you two Keith and Matt ;) Opinions about the good, the bad, and the ugly (as long as it works really well) will be helpful. Thanks oodles! Paula :-) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -This e-mail and any attachments may contain CONFIDENTIAL information, including PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or disclosure of this information is STRICTLY PROHIBITED; you are requested to delete this e-mail and any attachments, notify the sender immediately, and notify the LabCorp Privacy Officer at privacyoffi...@labcorp.com or call (877) 23-HIPAA / (877) 234-4722. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question
Paula Here are my two cents I currently use a Leica Autostainer XL with attached glass coverslipper. It is consistent in its staining and easy to use. The downfall is if you are a large volume lab or just have large volume days, each staining rack holds 30 slides and only one rack can be stained in each batch. The stainer also only has one on board oven, so the throughput of this machine is fairly low. It is only staining 30 slides at a time, with one holding station for the next set. It will run multiple batches concurrently, but gets to a point where it is all backed up. We sometimes have 2 racks staining, one in the oven, one in the loading dock, and some sitting on top of the stainer until it can go on. On the flip side, the Sakura Prisma is a workhorse. It is very similar to the Leica in the sense that it is linear and very consistent in staining. It has two on board ovens and each basket can hold 20 slides. The difference is that the Sakura can stain 3 racks (60 slides) per batch, with two batches in the oven at the same time. That gives you 120 slide throughput for each batch. This stainer also has an attached coverslipper (Sakura Film), but it is film coverslips. I know, I know.no one likes the film coverslips. One advantage to the film, is that the slides are dry almost immediately and can be filed away the same day. No waiting for 3-4 days for the glass ones to fully cure. I can say that the last lab I worked in had the film coverslips and after 10 years, the slides were still in pristine condition. There are many pathologists that do not like to read film covered slides, but once ours got used to it, they had no problems. Some say the film yellows or comes off with the tissue still attached. I can say that I never seen this in my past position. It is very dependent on Xylene only during coverslipping. You cannot use a xylene substitute in the coverslip portion and expect to get good results. Hope it helpsgood luck. Lisa -Original Message- From: Paula Sicurello [mailto:pat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:04 PM To: HistoNet Subject: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Me again... UCSD is in the market for a new HE stainer for our new hospital opening next year. We need a workhorse, not a prima dona, something with a coverslipper built in would be nice. What do you use? Suggestions gratefully accepted-even from you two Keith and Matt ;) Opinions about the good, the bad, and the ugly (as long as it works really well) will be helpful. Thanks oodles! Paula :-) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -This e-mail and any attachments may contain CONFIDENTIAL information, including PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or disclosure of this information is STRICTLY PROHIBITED; you are requested to delete this e-mail and any attachments, notify the sender immediately, and notify the LabCorp Privacy Officer at privacyoffi...@labcorp.com or call (877) 23-HIPAA / (877) 234-4722. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question
To be fair, a batch of slides for Leica is actually 270- slides, It can run 9 racks at a time, but, the 9th rack from start to coverslip is 3 hours+ You can always skip the on-board oven and place your slides in a slide dryer (most labs have them) and then every 3 minutes you can load a rack (1st xylene step 3 minutes) Then it goes much faster. As for tape..ugh..it is only guaranteed to last 7 years, after that they pull off the slide and take the tissue with it. CAP is starting to frown on this as you need to keep the initial HE slides for up to 10+ years. Chris Simmons B.S., A.S., HTL(ASCP) Supervisor, UPP Dermatopathology 412.864.3880 office 412.612.0881 cell -Original Message- From: Roy, Lisa [mailto:ro...@labcorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 8:19 AM To: Paula Sicurello; HistoNet Subject: Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Paula Here are my two cents I currently use a Leica Autostainer XL with attached glass coverslipper. It is consistent in its staining and easy to use. The downfall is if you are a large volume lab or just have large volume days, each staining rack holds 30 slides and only one rack can be stained in each batch. The stainer also only has one on board oven, so the throughput of this machine is fairly low. It is only staining 30 slides at a time, with one holding station for the next set. It will run multiple batches concurrently, but gets to a point where it is all backed up. We sometimes have 2 racks staining, one in the oven, one in the loading dock, and some sitting on top of the stainer until it can go on. On the flip side, the Sakura Prisma is a workhorse. It is very similar to the Leica in the sense that it is linear and very consistent in staining. It has two on board ovens and each basket can hold 20 slides. The difference is that the Sakura can stain 3 racks (60 slides) per batch, with two batches in the oven at the same time. That gives you 120 slide throughput for each batch. This stainer also has an attached coverslipper (Sakura Film), but it is film coverslips. I know, I know.no one likes the film coverslips. One advantage to the film, is that the slides are dry almost immediately and can be filed away the same day. No waiting for 3-4 days for the glass ones to fully cure. I can say that the last lab I worked in had the film coverslips and after 10 years, the slides were still in pristine condition. There are many pathologists that do not like to read film covered slides, but once ours got used to it, they had no problems. Some say the film yellows or comes off with the tissue still attached. I can say that I never seen this in my past position. It is very dependent on Xylene only during coverslipping. You cannot use a xylene substitute in the coverslip portion and expect to get good results. Hope it helpsgood luck. Lisa -Original Message- From: Paula Sicurello [mailto:pat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:04 PM To: HistoNet Subject: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Me again... UCSD is in the market for a new HE stainer for our new hospital opening next year. We need a workhorse, not a prima dona, something with a coverslipper built in would be nice. What do you use? Suggestions gratefully accepted-even from you two Keith and Matt ;) Opinions about the good, the bad, and the ugly (as long as it works really well) will be helpful. Thanks oodles! Paula :-) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -This e-mail and any attachments may contain CONFIDENTIAL information, including PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or disclosure of this information is STRICTLY PROHIBITED; you are requested to delete this e-mail and any attachments, notify the sender immediately, and notify the LabCorp Privacy Officer at privacyoffi...@labcorp.com or call (877) 23-HIPAA / (877) 234-4722. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question
Depends on which model you have...hence XL. Ours only has one oven so you're really only getting 3-4 racks stained at a time. -Original Message- From: Simmons, Christopher [mailto:sim...@upmc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 8:33 AM To: Roy, Lisa; Paula Sicurello; HistoNet Subject: RE: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question To be fair, a batch of slides for Leica is actually 270- slides, It can run 9 racks at a time, but, the 9th rack from start to coverslip is 3 hours+ You can always skip the on-board oven and place your slides in a slide dryer (most labs have them) and then every 3 minutes you can load a rack (1st xylene step 3 minutes) Then it goes much faster. As for tape..ugh..it is only guaranteed to last 7 years, after that they pull off the slide and take the tissue with it. CAP is starting to frown on this as you need to keep the initial HE slides for up to 10+ years. Chris Simmons B.S., A.S., HTL(ASCP) Supervisor, UPP Dermatopathology 412.864.3880 office 412.612.0881 cell -Original Message- From: Roy, Lisa [mailto:ro...@labcorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 8:19 AM To: Paula Sicurello; HistoNet Subject: Re: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Paula Here are my two cents I currently use a Leica Autostainer XL with attached glass coverslipper. It is consistent in its staining and easy to use. The downfall is if you are a large volume lab or just have large volume days, each staining rack holds 30 slides and only one rack can be stained in each batch. The stainer also only has one on board oven, so the throughput of this machine is fairly low. It is only staining 30 slides at a time, with one holding station for the next set. It will run multiple batches concurrently, but gets to a point where it is all backed up. We sometimes have 2 racks staining, one in the oven, one in the loading dock, and some sitting on top of the stainer until it can go on. On the flip side, the Sakura Prisma is a workhorse. It is very similar to the Leica in the sense that it is linear and very consistent in staining. It has two on board ovens and each basket can hold 20 slides. The difference is that the Sakura can stain 3 racks (60 slides) per batch, with two batches in the oven at the same time. That gives you 120 slide throughput for each batch. This stainer also has an attached coverslipper (Sakura Film), but it is film coverslips. I know, I know.no one likes the film coverslips. One advantage to the film, is that the slides are dry almost immediately and can be filed away the same day. No waiting for 3-4 days for the glass ones to fully cure. I can say that the last lab I worked in had the film coverslips and after 10 years, the slides were still in pristine condition. There are many pathologists that do not like to read film covered slides, but once ours got used to it, they had no problems. Some say the film yellows or comes off with the tissue still attached. I can say that I never seen this in my past position. It is very dependent on Xylene only during coverslipping. You cannot use a xylene substitute in the coverslip portion and expect to get good results. Hope it helpsgood luck. Lisa -Original Message- From: Paula Sicurello [mailto:pat...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 11, 2015 5:04 PM To: HistoNet Subject: [Histonet] HE Stainer Question Me again... UCSD is in the market for a new HE stainer for our new hospital opening next year. We need a workhorse, not a prima dona, something with a coverslipper built in would be nice. What do you use? Suggestions gratefully accepted-even from you two Keith and Matt ;) Opinions about the good, the bad, and the ugly (as long as it works really well) will be helpful. Thanks oodles! Paula :-) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -This e-mail and any attachments may contain CONFIDENTIAL information, including PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or disclosure of this information is STRICTLY PROHIBITED; you are requested to delete this e-mail and any attachments, notify the sender immediately, and notify the LabCorp Privacy Officer at privacyoffi...@labcorp.com or call (877) 23-HIPAA / (877) 234-4722. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -This e-mail and any attachments may contain CONFIDENTIAL information, including PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION. If you are not the intended recipient, any use or disclosure of this information is STRICTLY PROHIBITED; you are requested to delete this e-mail and any attachments, notify the sender immediately, and notify the LabCorp Privacy Officer at privacyoffi...@labcorp.com or call (877) 23-HIPAA / (877) 234-4722
[Histonet] HE Stainer Question
Me again... UCSD is in the market for a new HE stainer for our new hospital opening next year. We need a workhorse, not a prima dona, something with a coverslipper built in would be nice. What do you use? Suggestions gratefully accepted-even from you two Keith and Matt ;) Opinions about the good, the bad, and the ugly (as long as it works really well) will be helpful. Thanks oodles! Paula :-) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
