RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Yes, thank you! I hate when this statement is made. It is truly insulting. I have left organizations because the manager or director would say this right in meetings to us histotechs and to others in the meeting. At the moment of that utterance, I knew I was in the wrong place! Cheers. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: garr...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 18:33:37 -0400 To: nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology CC: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; mtur...@csilaboratories.com; jmacdon...@mtsac.edu; timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu; pamar...@uams.edu I am trying to find (hire) a histotech and will make sure I don't use the words trained monkey in my interviews. . Ha ha. I truly value and appreciate a skilled and motivated histotech. I've had to train myself to cut my own sections in order to understand the process better. It is a great field; it's like art to me.There is no room for monkeys in my book. Garrey Sent from my iPhone On Mar 24, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Stedman, Nancy nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com wrote: As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I tried to teach the starving graduate students the same things, with similar results :-) And it's not even Friday. Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 5:05 PM, William J. O'Connor III b427...@aol.com wrote: I have monkeys where I work, cynos. We tried to train them to not bite our fingers off - I wouldn't even try to teach them to use a microtome. -Original Message- From: Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com To: Stedman, Nancy nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com; Mark Turner mtur...@csilaboratories.com; Paula Sicurello pat...@gmail.com Cc: histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu; Jennifer MacDonald jmacdon...@mtsac.edu; Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu Sent: Tue, Mar 24, 2015 4:30 pm Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Thanks Dr. Stedman! Good to hear! Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 3:22 PM, Stedman, Nancy nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com wrote: As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
It is an art! That's what I try to get across to those that I am teaching an mentoring. Think of every slide as an example of your skill and artistry. Also to think of every photo you take in EM as something that will be published. Besides, I like pretty colors much more than a blue line on a gel. :-) Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Garreyf garr...@gmail.com wrote: I am trying to find (hire) a histotech and will make sure I don't use the words trained monkey in my interviews. . Ha ha. I truly value and appreciate a skilled and motivated histotech. I've had to train myself to cut my own sections in order to understand the process better. It is a great field; it's like art to me.There is no room for monkeys in my book. Garrey Sent from my iPhone On Mar 24, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Stedman, Nancy nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com wrote: As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I have monkeys where I work, cynos. We tried to train them to not bite our fingers off - I wouldn't even try to teach them to use a microtome. -Original Message- From: Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com To: Stedman, Nancy nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com; Mark Turner mtur...@csilaboratories.com; Paula Sicurello pat...@gmail.com Cc: histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu; Jennifer MacDonald jmacdon...@mtsac.edu; Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu Sent: Tue, Mar 24, 2015 4:30 pm Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Thanks Dr. Stedman! Good to hear! Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 3:22 PM, Stedman, Nancy nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com wrote: As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Dear Nancy Stedman, Thank you for your confidence in our work. I have been doing histology for over 45 years and have seen so many changes for the better. Histology is a high calling to those who take it seriously.I have indeed seen some pathologist that have not appreciated the people who do the work that enables them to have a job. Thankfully they are few and far between. There is not a day that goes by that I am not thankful for the field I choose way back in 1970. Roy Brown -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Stedman, Nancy Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:22 PM To: Mark Turner; Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Thank u dr.stedman Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Stedman, Nancy nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com Date:03/24/2015 5:22 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Mark Turner mtur...@csilaboratories.com, Paula Sicurello pat...@gmail.com, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Timothy Morken timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu, Jennifer MacDonald jmacdon...@mtsac.edu, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Thank you Dr. Stedman. I appreciate your response. I have been fortunate to work with mostly respectful and appreciative pathologists in my 53 (in July) years as a histotechnologist. But have met some who think more of themselves than they should. One more thing, there are thousands of histotechs grossing now, a task that was once only a pathologist's job. So I wonder if the offenders think that a monkey can do their job? Just a thought. Thank you again for being a professionial. Shirley Powell -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Stedman, Nancy Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 5:22 PM To: Mark Turner; Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Tim for a Pathology Manager you seem to have a low opinion of the education and training of the Histo Techs that work for you. Is your training program accredited with one of the Histology schools or is your staff left to rend for themselves? By the way, the lab that I work at basis the starting salaries on your degree first, then specialty so MT, HT/HTL with BS degrees earn the same. Tom -Original Message- From: Morken, Timothy [mailto:timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:42 PM To: Podawiltz, Thomas; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Tom, no, Histo does start lower than med techs, but consider that a med tech has specialty training from the time they decide to go that route while most histotechs have general biology degrees and nothing but on the job training. Even with a certification a Histotech is not at the same level as a med tech simply due to the unstructured nature of their self-education and training. In 30+ years I have met only a handful of people who got any sort of degrees in Histotechnology, so waiting for those people to come along is not going to work for hiring. Most of our staff got their certification while working here and did it on their own. Only one has a degree in Histotechnology, and a BS at that!. A starting salary here is $36/hr and it is a $3 to $4 increase per level. The lab staff is unionized, and we compete with many large service labs (ie Kaiser) and many, many large biotech companies for the same pool of techs. Plus, it is expensive to live in the San Francisco Bay Area. We only recently (a few years ago) started this requirement in order to get our staff to a higher level. We still have staff without BA/BS degrees. The degree just needs to meet the requirements for certification so does not need to be a specialty degree. Tim -Original Message- From: Podawiltz, Thomas [mailto:tpodawi...@lrgh.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 9:06 AM To: Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology So just out of curiosity is the pay on the same level as that of a Med Tech with a BS? Does the BA/BS have to be in Histotechnology or is the BA/BS followed by one of the on-line certificate programs? Tom Tom Podawiltz HT (ASCP) AP Section Head LRGHealthcare -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:47 AM To: Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Jennifer, we require a BA/BS degree for all Histotechnologist positions. However, in our 4 step categories Level 1 does not require certification, just the degree and the requirement that they get the certification within a year. Advancement to level 2 to 4 requires an HT or HTL certification (Level 1 = entry level bench tech, Level 2 is bench tech, level 3 is senior tech, level 4 is Lead tech). Supervisor requires and HTL. Considering that we already require a BA/BS degree for all levels, the fact a person has a HT or HTL is not going to matter much for levels 1 thru 4, only for supervisor level. Tim Morken Pathology Site Manager, Parnassus Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jennifer MacDonald Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 7:52 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology In what areas would a facility hire an HTL over an HT? Is there a need for more HTL programs? 4 Thank you, ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL. This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not print,distribute, or copy this message or any attachments. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your computer. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of LRGHealthcare. THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL. This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Tom, I think every histotech does the best they can with the limited resources available. I don't blame anyone for lack of knowledge or skill due to their OJT because I came through the OJT route as well, after getting degrees in physiology and a two year certification in electron microscopy. I wound my way thru EM, histology, IHC and ended up working almost exclusively in IHC for many years and only recently came back to EM. Luckily I initially worked for a pathologist who supported the education of his techs and wanted supertechs who could do everything in histology. We had a group in the lab who studied together for the HT and HTL and we all learned a lot. However, what we did was still informal and certainly not comprehensive. Later on I worked in Saudi Arabia and had the chance to work with many other histotechs from other countries. Believe me, even with my degree and HTL I was outclassed by those other techs knowledge due to their formal education in the field. I was the one asking questions or being taught things I had no idea about. Things that had never come up in my necessarily limited OJT. But that is my point. The vast majority of histotechs fall into the field by accident, not by design, and whatever they learn is a circumstance of where they work, what that lab does and who is teaching them. I would never have thought of doing immunohistochemistry unless I had been hired to run an EM lab and, not having quite enough to keep me busy, been willing to help out in histology and learn everything there as well, just at the time IHC was coming into the lab, and a medical director willing to both teach and bring in people from outside to teach us. Someone else working somewhere else may not have that level of support at all. Indeed, I have met histotechs who tell me their medical directors will not even sign an ASCP application form for them to sit for an exam because if they figure if the tech gets the certification they will leave for a better job somewhere else! Compare that to a med tech who goes to college, finds out about the field of Medical Technology and has an entire department built around educating them to that end, along with hospitals that will provide internships for further training. That is far, far beyond what 99% of histotechs in the US ever get, if they get any formal training at all. Therefore, it is not reasonable to assume that just because someone learns a skill on the job and passes a basic test that they are equal in every way to someone with formal education, internships and good support throughout their education and training. It is only the very rare histotech who goes above and beyond the normal requirements of the job that achieves anything close to what med techs get as a normal course of events. So, I really appreciate what all good histotechs achieve with the near total lack of support, doing everything on their own, mostly due to their own desire to do well in a profession they love. Tim -Original Message- From: Podawiltz, Thomas [mailto:tpodawi...@lrgh.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 3:19 AM To: Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Tim for a Pathology Manager you seem to have a low opinion of the education and training of the Histo Techs that work for you. Is your training program accredited with one of the Histology schools or is your staff left to rend for themselves? By the way, the lab that I work at basis the starting salaries on your degree first, then specialty so MT, HT/HTL with BS degrees earn the same. Tom -Original Message- From: Morken, Timothy [mailto:timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:42 PM To: Podawiltz, Thomas; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Tom, no, Histo does start lower than med techs, but consider that a med tech has specialty training from the time they decide to go that route while most histotechs have general biology degrees and nothing but on the job training. Even with a certification a Histotech is not at the same level as a med tech simply due to the unstructured nature of their self-education and training. In 30+ years I have met only a handful of people who got any sort of degrees in Histotechnology, so waiting for those people to come along is not going to work for hiring. Most of our staff got their certification while working here and did it on their own. Only one has a degree in Histotechnology, and a BS at that!. A starting salary here is $36/hr and it is a $3 to $4 increase per level. The lab staff is unionized, and we compete with many large service labs (ie Kaiser) and many, many large biotech companies for the same pool of techs. Plus, it is expensive to live in the San Francisco Bay Area. We only recently (a few years ago) started this requirement
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Tom, no we don't have a program here. In fact the only one on the west coast is in southern California (we did try to work with the SF city college to start a program but their funding fell through). Another local college is trying to start a course and I'm getting involved with that. For the time being we just try to find the best candidates we can. I sent a much longer response to histonet, but generally histotechs are, as you well know, a grab bag of various levels of training and knowledge. Only one in our lab has a BS degree in Histotechnology (from Ohio). Nothing against histotechs at all, as I am an OJT histotech but formally -rained EM tech. People do the best they can with their limited exposure to the field. In my long experience in the several labs I have worked in, I have only seen a few that have risen to the level of a med tech. NSH meetings are a different story - mostly people who have taken the time and made the extraordinary effort to educate themselves to a high level. While working oversees my eyes were opened to what other techs in other countries do to educate and supply histotechs. The US is way, way at the low end of the scale in that regard. Most other countries have degreed or technical programs specifically for lab techs of all kinds. In most countries Histotechnology is a specialty of Medical Technology and only done after a full med tech degree is earned - another year of school for the specialization. I really can't look at the situation in the US and say it is ok after seeing what goes on elsewhere. Tim -Original Message- From: Podawiltz, Thomas [mailto:tpodawi...@lrgh.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 3:19 AM To: Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Tim for a Pathology Manager you seem to have a low opinion of the education and training of the Histo Techs that work for you. Is your training program accredited with one of the Histology schools or is your staff left to rend for themselves? By the way, the lab that I work at basis the starting salaries on your degree first, then specialty so MT, HT/HTL with BS degrees earn the same. Tom -Original Message- From: Morken, Timothy [mailto:timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:42 PM To: Podawiltz, Thomas; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Tom, no, Histo does start lower than med techs, but consider that a med tech has specialty training from the time they decide to go that route while most histotechs have general biology degrees and nothing but on the job training. Even with a certification a Histotech is not at the same level as a med tech simply due to the unstructured nature of their self-education and training. In 30+ years I have met only a handful of people who got any sort of degrees in Histotechnology, so waiting for those people to come along is not going to work for hiring. Most of our staff got their certification while working here and did it on their own. Only one has a degree in Histotechnology, and a BS at that!. A starting salary here is $36/hr and it is a $3 to $4 increase per level. The lab staff is unionized, and we compete with many large service labs (ie Kaiser) and many, many large biotech companies for the same pool of techs. Plus, it is expensive to live in the San Francisco Bay Area. We only recently (a few years ago) started this requirement in order to get our staff to a higher level. We still have staff without BA/BS degrees. The degree just needs to meet the requirements for certification so does not need to be a specialty degree. Tim -Original Message- From: Podawiltz, Thomas [mailto:tpodawi...@lrgh.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 9:06 AM To: Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology So just out of curiosity is the pay on the same level as that of a Med Tech with a BS? Does the BA/BS have to be in Histotechnology or is the BA/BS followed by one of the on-line certificate programs? Tom Tom Podawiltz HT (ASCP) AP Section Head LRGHealthcare -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:47 AM To: Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Jennifer, we require a BA/BS degree for all Histotechnologist positions. However, in our 4 step categories Level 1 does not require certification, just the degree and the requirement that they get the certification within a year. Advancement to level 2 to 4 requires an HT or HTL certification (Level 1 = entry level bench tech, Level 2 is bench tech, level 3 is senior tech, level 4 is Lead tech). Supervisor requires
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
My abbreviated story: I went to college right out of high school...class of '74. During my sophomore year I spoke with my advisor and explained how much I loved biology/sciencebut did not want to be a nurse. She mentioned the lab sciences and had me visit a major hospital a couple hours away from where I was attending college to check things out. I saw chemistry, hematology, micro, blood banking, cytology and histology. I saw histology last and fell in love and knew instantly. I went back to my advisor and told her and she explained I didn't need a Bachelor's for that program so I decided to complete my sophomore and begin my year-long training. MANY years later I went back and finished my degree but I chose histology over many other options. I have not regretted it. Jeanine Sanders CDC Atlanta And for the record, I worked with Tim for years and he is an amazing histotech! -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 11:41 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Tom, I think every histotech does the best they can with the limited resources available. I don't blame anyone for lack of knowledge or skill due to their OJT because I came through the OJT route as well, after getting degrees in physiology and a two year certification in electron microscopy. I wound my way thru EM, histology, IHC and ended up working almost exclusively in IHC for many years and only recently came back to EM. Luckily I initially worked for a pathologist who supported the education of his techs and wanted supertechs who could do everything in histology. We had a group in the lab who studied together for the HT and HTL and we all learned a lot. However, what we did was still informal and certainly not comprehensive. Later on I worked in Saudi Arabia and had the chance to work with many other histotechs from other countries. Believe me, even with my degree and HTL I was outclassed by those other techs knowledge due to their formal education in the field. I was the one asking questions or being taught things I had no idea about. Things that had never come up in my necessarily limited OJT. But that is my point. The vast majority of histotechs fall into the field by accident, not by design, and whatever they learn is a circumstance of where they work, what that lab does and who is teaching them. I would never have thought of doing immunohistochemistry unless I had been hired to run an EM lab and, not having quite enough to keep me busy, been willing to help out in histology and learn everything there as well, just at the time IHC was coming into the lab, and a medical director willing to both teach and bring in people from outside to teach us. Someone else working somewhere else may not have that level of support at all. Indeed, I have met histotechs who tell me their medical directors will not even sign an ASCP application form for them to sit for an exam because if they figure if the tech gets the certification they will leave for a better job somewhere else! Compare that to a med tech who goes to college, finds out about the field of Medical Technology and has an entire department built around educating them to that end, along with hospitals that will provide internships for further training. That is far, far beyond what 99% of histotechs in the US ever get, if they get any formal training at all. Therefore, it is not reasonable to assume that just because someone learns a skill on the job and passes a basic test that they are equal in every way to someone with formal education, internships and good support throughout their education and training. It is only the very rare histotech who goes above and beyond the normal requirements of the job that achieves anything close to what med techs get as a normal course of events. So, I really appreciate what all good histotechs achieve with the near total lack of support, doing everything on their own, mostly due to their own desire to do well in a profession they love. Tim -Original Message- From: Podawiltz, Thomas [mailto:tpodawi...@lrgh.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 3:19 AM To: Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Tim for a Pathology Manager you seem to have a low opinion of the education and training of the Histo Techs that work for you. Is your training program accredited with one of the Histology schools or is your staff left to rend for themselves? By the way, the lab that I work at basis the starting salaries on your degree first, then specialty so MT, HT/HTL with BS degrees earn the same. Tom -Original Message- From: Morken, Timothy [mailto:timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:42 PM
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
So most admin foljs do not know abt us until someone in their family had a bx and needed a dx thsn all of a sudden we needed to jump thru hoops and they were our best rriend Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Bernice Frederick b-freder...@northwestern.edu Date:03/24/2015 3:27 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) j...@cdc.gov, Carl Nituda cnit...@nvdermatology.com, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu, Sue suetp...@comcast.net, Timothy Morken timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Jennifer MacDonald jmacdon...@mtsac.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology They don't realize the theory we have to learn and those questions we have to answer like What's the best fixative for a pheochromocytoma? You tell them and they say the pathologist says B-5, to which I said, well they wouldn't pass out registry exam with that answer.Grrr. Or the difference between a Mucin, Pas and Alcian Blue. The cytopath who asked did really need to know. As well I vaguely recall a question back on my HTL exam asking why a pathologist would request a mucin stain Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Senior Research Tech Pathology Core Facility Robert. H. Lurie Cancer Center Northwestern University 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 b-freder...@northwestern.edu -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:14 PM To: Carl Nituda; Marcum, Pamela A; Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I know someone personally that works in a hospital and it hast Histotechnologist by his nameand he never took the HTL exam. He said his hospital bases it on experience From: Carl Nituda [cnit...@nvdermatology.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:32 PM To: Marcum, Pamela A; Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID); Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I personally think that a person just can't call themselves a Histotechnologist unless they went to school, training, and then pass the BOC by ASCP. Anyone, I mean anyone can perform a job with proper training in any field but that doesn't mean they should have that title until they pass certification. For hiring managers, I encourage you to hire certified candidates as priority and call them a Histotechnician, or Histotechnologist based on their certification. If a person is doing Histology work and is uncertified, encourage them to be certified and just don't give them a title. Imagine a world when people doing the job is actually certified like other professions, then you will get the respect from your colleagues that you deserve. Changes for the future of the profession starts with good leaders. Have a good and blessed week everyone. Carl Nituda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Marcum, Pamela A Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:53 AM To: 'Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)'; Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Thanks Dr. Stedman! Good to hear! Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 3:22 PM, Stedman, Nancy nancy.sted...@buschgardens.com wrote: As a pathologist I'd like to apologize for all the pathologists who have made comments like this.. forget trained monkeys and dogs, most (all?) pathologists cannot cut slides either, at least not slides they'd want to try to read. I know I can't. -Nancy Stedman -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mark Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 4:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Timothy Morken; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
This is a great example of what can be accomplished as a HistoPROFESSIONAL. I commend you Patti and the bottom line is take responsibility for your own career path/ladder. Two things as HISTOPROFESSIONALS we can contribute, continuing education and to pay it forward. My personal experience has been rewarding because of two contributors to my learning curve, my mentors and my dementors. I encountered pathologisits who mentored me, but the ones that did not value me did not deter me. Until we value ourselves and address unhealthy situations we will never move forward. Sometimes that means leaving our comfort zone or the convenient location. And in my experience sometimes being pushed out of the nest. I obtained my first AS through distance learning with an award from the NSH. My second associate culminated with travel abroad in Cusco, Peru. I have a ridiculous amount of semester hours, but no BSyet. Bottom line is VALUE your own worth, continue your education, educate others and if you are in a hamster situation jump off that wheel! I'm sure I will get feedback the grass is not always greener, but how about this idiom why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. It's not even Friday yet~ Wanda K. Simons, HT (ASCP) Artist Scientist for Histotechnology ---Original Message--- From: Patti McDavid pmcda...@mhg.com To: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Sent: Mar 24 '15 16:11 Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Our laboratory decided when CLIA 88 came out, that we would require an associate's degree in science and a MLT or HT certification as a minimum to work in histology. The pay is the same for histology as in clinical departments. I strongly feel that was a good choice for our laboratory and hospital. I started with our facility as a MLT working in histology. Histology was a wonderful career path and did not impede my climb up the management ladder. Patti L. McDavid, Med, MLT/HTL (ASCP) Clinical Laboratory Manager 4500 Thirteenth Street P.O. Box 1810 Gulfport, MS 39502-1810 Phone 228-575-2340 Fax 228-865-3325 pmcda...@mhg.commailto:pmcda...@mhg.com [http://www.gulfportmemorial.com/images/14MH81-BESTE_SIG-RANKED-A-BESTD2.GIF] http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/ms This email may contain information covered under the Mississippi Privacy Law (Miss. Code Ann. § 75-24-29), the Privacy Act of 1974 (5 U.S.C. § 552a) and/or the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (Pub. L. No. 104-191) and its accompanying regulations. Healthcare information is personal and sensitive and must be protected in accordance with these provisions. If this email contains healthcare information, it is being disclosed to you only after appropriate authorization from the patient or under circumstances that do not require patient authorization. You, the recipient, are obligated to maintain it in a safe, secure and confidential manner. Re-disclosure without additional patient authorization, unless otherwise permitted by law, is prohibited. **PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL** If you are not the intended recipient of this email, be advised that any use, disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action in reliance on the contents of the information contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then destroy/delete all copies of the original message and any attachment(s) thereto. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I agree Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Carl Nituda cnit...@nvdermatology.com Date:03/24/2015 2:32 PM (GMT-05:00) To: Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu, 'Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)' j...@cdc.gov, Sue suetp...@comcast.net, Timothy Morken timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Jennifer MacDonald jmacdon...@mtsac.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I personally think that a person just can't call themselves a Histotechnologist unless they went to school, training, and then pass the BOC by ASCP. Anyone, I mean anyone can perform a job with proper training in any field but that doesn't mean they should have that title until they pass certification. For hiring managers, I encourage you to hire certified candidates as priority and call them a Histotechnician, or Histotechnologist based on their certification. If a person is doing Histology work and is uncertified, encourage them to be certified and just don't give them a title. Imagine a world when people doing the job is actually certified like other professions, then you will get the respect from your colleagues that you deserve. Changes for the future of the profession starts with good leaders. Have a good and blessed week everyone. Carl Nituda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Marcum, Pamela A Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:53 AM To: 'Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)'; Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Jennifer, we require a BA/BS degree for all Histotechnologist positions. However, in our 4 step categories Level 1 does not require certification, just the degree and the requirement that they get the certification within a year. Advancement to level 2 to 4 requires an HT or HTL certification (Level 1 = entry level bench tech, Level 2 is bench tech, level 3 is senior tech, level 4 is Lead tech). Supervisor requires and HTL. Considering that we already require a BA/BS degree for all levels, the fact a person has a HT or HTL is not going to matter much for levels 1 thru 4, only for supervisor level. Tim Morken Pathology Site Manager, Parnassus Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jennifer MacDonald Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 7:52 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology In what areas would a facility hire an HTL over an HT? Is there a need for more HTL programs? 4 Thank you, ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
So just out of curiosity is the pay on the same level as that of a Med Tech with a BS? Does the BA/BS have to be in Histotechnology or is the BA/BS followed by one of the on-line certificate programs? Tom Tom Podawiltz HT (ASCP) AP Section Head LRGHealthcare -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:47 AM To: Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Jennifer, we require a BA/BS degree for all Histotechnologist positions. However, in our 4 step categories Level 1 does not require certification, just the degree and the requirement that they get the certification within a year. Advancement to level 2 to 4 requires an HT or HTL certification (Level 1 = entry level bench tech, Level 2 is bench tech, level 3 is senior tech, level 4 is Lead tech). Supervisor requires and HTL. Considering that we already require a BA/BS degree for all levels, the fact a person has a HT or HTL is not going to matter much for levels 1 thru 4, only for supervisor level. Tim Morken Pathology Site Manager, Parnassus Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jennifer MacDonald Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 7:52 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology In what areas would a facility hire an HTL over an HT? Is there a need for more HTL programs? 4 Thank you, ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL. This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not print,distribute, or copy this message or any attachments. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your computer. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of LRGHealthcare. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Pam, true enough. Indeed, for the annual NSH survey my only comment was that NSH has been ineffective in convincing pathology departments of the value of an HT or HTL certification - to the point that many are now questioning its value at all. Ours is one of few institutions that requires certification for advancement and our medical directors have been pushing for higher quality staff in order to raise the quality of our lab. We went through a pay revision about 7 years ago because the biotech companies and other large medical institutions were sucking up any candidates that poked their head up. We are now on par but still have to fight for any good candidates. But as long as histotechs are on the job trained (probably 99.9% now, as in the past), and invisible to high school and college students, the pay is going nowhere. It is still quite possible to get into the field with no experience . One of our techs got into histology by answering a Craig's list ad placed by a slide mill. He is very good tech, and has a degree in cellular and molecular biology, but that just goes to show how random our source pool is. His education is good, his histology training is random. And another quality candidate just randomly poked his head in my office a few months ago saying he had been doing some histology work in a research lab and was really excited to find out it could be a full time permanent job. We hired him but he is starting in accessioning and will work his way into histology. This is how most people get into histology. Tim Morken Pathology Site Manager, Parnassus Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center Tim -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Marcum Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:13 AM To: Sue Cc: Histonet; Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology It is the only truth I deal with here. We are, like TJH, University medical school and they only care about the degree, four year is best. They (administration and/or the pathologists) have never attempted to learn what we have or how we do it and I doubt they will ever want to learn about Histology. When I started many years ago the residents had to come through Histology for two to six weeks depending on the site. Now we get 10 minutes to explain what they need to do to get good, not even great slides and stains. They simply are not interested and these will be the people future Histologists have to work for and depend on for pay. We are in trouble and it is getting deeper. I have the same question I have had for years: Where is NSH and how are they helping us move forward? I have seen no movement to help get us raised to Laboratory Professionals. I have only heard as long as we don't have degrees for our training we will not be recoginzied. I have the degrees and still have to fight for salary and my rasies while if I were an MT it would be a given. Sorry this is a sore subject and I fight yearly to get bare minimum raises for our people. We did not get raises at all for two years and that was throughout the labs and hosptial. Two percent raises are very close to an insult for us. (We are talking angstrom close; not inches.) Pam - Original Message - From: Sue suetp...@comcast.net To: Timothy Morken timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu Cc: Histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Jennifer MacDonald jmacdon...@mtsac.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:59:20 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Tom, no, Histo does start lower than med techs, but consider that a med tech has specialty training from the time they decide to go that route while most histotechs have general biology degrees and nothing but on the job training. Even with a certification a Histotech is not at the same level as a med tech simply due to the unstructured nature of their self-education and training. In 30+ years I have met only a handful of people who got any sort of degrees in Histotechnology, so waiting for those people to come along is not going to work for hiring. Most of our staff got their certification while working here and did it on their own. Only one has a degree in Histotechnology, and a BS at that!. A starting salary here is $36/hr and it is a $3 to $4 increase per level. The lab staff is unionized, and we compete with many large service labs (ie Kaiser) and many, many large biotech companies for the same pool of techs. Plus, it is expensive to live in the San Francisco Bay Area. We only recently (a few years ago) started this requirement in order to get our staff to a higher level. We still have staff without BA/BS degrees. The degree just needs to meet the requirements for certification so does not need to be a specialty degree. Tim -Original Message- From: Podawiltz, Thomas [mailto:tpodawi...@lrgh.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 9:06 AM To: Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology So just out of curiosity is the pay on the same level as that of a Med Tech with a BS? Does the BA/BS have to be in Histotechnology or is the BA/BS followed by one of the on-line certificate programs? Tom Tom Podawiltz HT (ASCP) AP Section Head LRGHealthcare -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:47 AM To: Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Jennifer, we require a BA/BS degree for all Histotechnologist positions. However, in our 4 step categories Level 1 does not require certification, just the degree and the requirement that they get the certification within a year. Advancement to level 2 to 4 requires an HT or HTL certification (Level 1 = entry level bench tech, Level 2 is bench tech, level 3 is senior tech, level 4 is Lead tech). Supervisor requires and HTL. Considering that we already require a BA/BS degree for all levels, the fact a person has a HT or HTL is not going to matter much for levels 1 thru 4, only for supervisor level. Tim Morken Pathology Site Manager, Parnassus Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jennifer MacDonald Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 7:52 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology In what areas would a facility hire an HTL over an HT? Is there a need for more HTL programs? 4 Thank you, ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL. This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not print,distribute, or copy this message or any attachments. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your computer. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of LRGHealthcare. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
In most cases it means nothing and if you are in Histology and the administration considers Histology a non-professional laboratory personnel area the pay is lower. Sorry I have fought this for 5.5 years here and the difference between an HT and HTL is the degree only not the registry. If it is $0.10 an hour it is good. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Podawiltz, Thomas Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:06 AM To: Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology So just out of curiosity is the pay on the same level as that of a Med Tech with a BS? Does the BA/BS have to be in Histotechnology or is the BA/BS followed by one of the on-line certificate programs? Tom Tom Podawiltz HT (ASCP) AP Section Head LRGHealthcare -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:47 AM To: Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Jennifer, we require a BA/BS degree for all Histotechnologist positions. However, in our 4 step categories Level 1 does not require certification, just the degree and the requirement that they get the certification within a year. Advancement to level 2 to 4 requires an HT or HTL certification (Level 1 = entry level bench tech, Level 2 is bench tech, level 3 is senior tech, level 4 is Lead tech). Supervisor requires and HTL. Considering that we already require a BA/BS degree for all levels, the fact a person has a HT or HTL is not going to matter much for levels 1 thru 4, only for supervisor level. Tim Morken Pathology Site Manager, Parnassus Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jennifer MacDonald Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 7:52 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology In what areas would a facility hire an HTL over an HT? Is there a need for more HTL programs? 4 Thank you, ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL. This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not print,distribute, or copy this message or any attachments. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your computer. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of LRGHealthcare. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I know someone personally that works in a hospital and it hast Histotechnologist by his nameand he never took the HTL exam. He said his hospital bases it on experience From: Carl Nituda [cnit...@nvdermatology.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:32 PM To: Marcum, Pamela A; Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID); Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I personally think that a person just can't call themselves a Histotechnologist unless they went to school, training, and then pass the BOC by ASCP. Anyone, I mean anyone can perform a job with proper training in any field but that doesn't mean they should have that title until they pass certification. For hiring managers, I encourage you to hire certified candidates as priority and call them a Histotechnician, or Histotechnologist based on their certification. If a person is doing Histology work and is uncertified, encourage them to be certified and just don't give them a title. Imagine a world when people doing the job is actually certified like other professions, then you will get the respect from your colleagues that you deserve. Changes for the future of the profession starts with good leaders. Have a good and blessed week everyone. Carl Nituda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Marcum, Pamela A Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:53 AM To: 'Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)'; Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I personally think that a person just can't call themselves a Histotechnologist unless they went to school, training, and then pass the BOC by ASCP. Anyone, I mean anyone can perform a job with proper training in any field but that doesn't mean they should have that title until they pass certification. For hiring managers, I encourage you to hire certified candidates as priority and call them a Histotechnician, or Histotechnologist based on their certification. If a person is doing Histology work and is uncertified, encourage them to be certified and just don't give them a title. Imagine a world when people doing the job is actually certified like other professions, then you will get the respect from your colleagues that you deserve. Changes for the future of the profession starts with good leaders. Have a good and blessed week everyone. Carl Nituda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Marcum, Pamela A Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:53 AM To: 'Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)'; Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I agree and I am questioning NSH and what it is doing for us. I support them mainly because they are creating some education routes for people who need CEUs. I prefer to spent my time with state and regional societies in Histology as they are attempting to find ways to attract more people to Histology. We all have that fight and finding ways to be recognized it not easy. I lived in San Franciso during the early 80s and it is a difficult market with hisgh goals. I am glad it is improving the status the Histologist there by being a corwded market where you can ask for better trained people and hold them to a path to improve even more. Pam - Original Message - From: Timothy Morken timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu To: Pam Marcum mucra...@comcast.net, Sue suetp...@comcast.net Cc: Histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Jennifer MacDonald jmacdon...@mtsac.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 1:35:30 PM Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Pam, true enough. Indeed, for the annual NSH survey my only comment was that NSH has been ineffective in convincing pathology departments of the value of an HT or HTL certification - to the point that many are now questioning its value at all. Ours is one of few institutions that requires certification for advancement and our medical directors have been pushing for higher quality staff in order to raise the quality of our lab. We went through a pay revision about 7 years ago because the biotech companies and other large medical institutions were sucking up any candidates that poked their head up. We are now on par but still have to fight for any good candidates. But as long as histotechs are on the job trained (probably 99.9% now, as in the past), and invisible to high school and college students, the pay is going nowhere. It is still quite possible to get into the field with no experience . One of our techs got into histology by answering a Craig's list ad placed by a slide mill. He is very good tech, and has a degree in cellular and molecular biology, but that just goes to show how random our source pool is. His education is good, his histology training is random. And another quality candidate just randomly poked his head in my office a few months ago saying he had been doing some histology work in a research lab and was really excited to find out it could be a full time permanent job. We hired him but he is starting in accessioning and will work his way into histology. This is how most people get into histology. Tim Morken Pathology Site Manager, Parnassus Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center Tim -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Marcum Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:13 AM To: Sue Cc: Histonet; Morken, Timothy; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology It is the only truth I deal with here. We are, like TJH, University medical school and they only care about the degree, four year is best. They (administration and/or the pathologists) have never attempted to learn what we have or how we do it and I doubt they will ever want to learn about Histology. When I started many years ago the residents had to come through Histology for two to six weeks depending on the site. Now we get 10 minutes to explain what they need to do to get good, not even great slides and stains. They simply are not interested and these will be the people future Histologists have to work for and depend on for pay. We are in trouble and it is getting deeper. I have the same question I have had for years: Where is NSH and how are they helping us move forward? I have seen no movement to help get us raised to Laboratory Professionals. I have only heard as long as we don't have degrees for our training we will not be recoginzied. I have the degrees and still have to fight for salary and my rasies while if I were an MT it would be a given. Sorry this is a sore subject and I fight yearly to get bare minimum raises for our people. We did not get raises at all for two years and that was throughout the labs and hosptial. Two percent raises are very close to an insult for us. (We are talking angstrom close; not inches.) Pam - Original Message - From: Sue suetp...@comcast.net To: Timothy Morken timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu Cc: Histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Jennifer MacDonald jmacdon...@mtsac.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:59:20 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
They don't realize the theory we have to learn and those questions we have to answer like What's the best fixative for a pheochromocytoma? You tell them and they say the pathologist says B-5, to which I said, well they wouldn't pass out registry exam with that answer.Grrr. Or the difference between a Mucin, Pas and Alcian Blue. The cytopath who asked did really need to know. As well I vaguely recall a question back on my HTL exam asking why a pathologist would request a mucin stain Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Senior Research Tech Pathology Core Facility Robert. H. Lurie Cancer Center Northwestern University 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 b-freder...@northwestern.edu -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:14 PM To: Carl Nituda; Marcum, Pamela A; Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I know someone personally that works in a hospital and it hast Histotechnologist by his nameand he never took the HTL exam. He said his hospital bases it on experience From: Carl Nituda [cnit...@nvdermatology.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 2:32 PM To: Marcum, Pamela A; Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID); Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I personally think that a person just can't call themselves a Histotechnologist unless they went to school, training, and then pass the BOC by ASCP. Anyone, I mean anyone can perform a job with proper training in any field but that doesn't mean they should have that title until they pass certification. For hiring managers, I encourage you to hire certified candidates as priority and call them a Histotechnician, or Histotechnologist based on their certification. If a person is doing Histology work and is uncertified, encourage them to be certified and just don't give them a title. Imagine a world when people doing the job is actually certified like other professions, then you will get the respect from your colleagues that you deserve. Changes for the future of the profession starts with good leaders. Have a good and blessed week everyone. Carl Nituda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Marcum, Pamela A Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 10:53 AM To: 'Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)'; Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Can we clone her? -Original Message- From: Mark Turner [mailto:mtur...@csilaboratories.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:26 PM To: Paula Sicurello; Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Our laboratory decided when CLIA 88 came out, that we would require an associate's degree in science and a MLT or HT certification as a minimum to work in histology. The pay is the same for histology as in clinical departments. I strongly feel that was a good choice for our laboratory and hospital. I started with our facility as a MLT working in histology. Histology was a wonderful career path and did not impede my climb up the management ladder. Patti L. McDavid, Med, MLT/HTL (ASCP) Clinical Laboratory Manager 4500 Thirteenth Street P.O. Box 1810 Gulfport, MS 39502-1810 Phone 228-575-2340 Fax 228-865-3325 pmcda...@mhg.commailto:pmcda...@mhg.com [http://www.gulfportmemorial.com/images/14MH81-BESTE_SIG-RANKED-A-BESTD2.GIF] http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/ms This email may contain information covered under the Mississippi Privacy Law (Miss. Code Ann. § 75-24-29), the Privacy Act of 1974 (5 U.S.C. § 552a) and/or the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (Pub. L. No. 104-191) and its accompanying regulations. Healthcare information is personal and sensitive and must be protected in accordance with these provisions. If this email contains healthcare information, it is being disclosed to you only after appropriate authorization from the patient or under circumstances that do not require patient authorization. You, the recipient, are obligated to maintain it in a safe, secure and confidential manner. Re-disclosure without additional patient authorization, unless otherwise permitted by law, is prohibited. **PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL** If you are not the intended recipient of this email, be advised that any use, disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action in reliance on the contents of the information contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately by reply email and then destroy/delete all copies of the original message and any attachment(s) thereto. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
For what its worth, in my entire career, the pay has never been the same for an HTL with a bachelors and the same experience as any MT, and sometimes less than an MLT. I think maybe only once or twice I did get paid more ( like 5 cents) for having an HTL versus HT. Hospitals are horrible about that in general. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: tpodawi...@lrgh.org To: timothy.mor...@ucsf.edu; jmacdon...@mtsac.edu; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:06:13 -0400 Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology CC: So just out of curiosity is the pay on the same level as that of a Med Tech with a BS? Does the BA/BS have to be in Histotechnology or is the BA/BS followed by one of the on-line certificate programs? Tom Tom Podawiltz HT (ASCP) AP Section Head LRGHealthcare -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 11:47 AM To: Jennifer MacDonald; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology Jennifer, we require a BA/BS degree for all Histotechnologist positions. However, in our 4 step categories Level 1 does not require certification, just the degree and the requirement that they get the certification within a year. Advancement to level 2 to 4 requires an HT or HTL certification (Level 1 = entry level bench tech, Level 2 is bench tech, level 3 is senior tech, level 4 is Lead tech). Supervisor requires and HTL. Considering that we already require a BA/BS degree for all levels, the fact a person has a HT or HTL is not going to matter much for levels 1 thru 4, only for supervisor level. Tim Morken Pathology Site Manager, Parnassus Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jennifer MacDonald Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 7:52 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology In what areas would a facility hire an HTL over an HT? Is there a need for more HTL programs? 4 Thank you, ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet THIS MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL. This e-mail message and any attachments are proprietary and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not print,distribute, or copy this message or any attachments. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message and any attachments from your computer. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of LRGHealthcare. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
I once worked with a Pathologist who said she was in a group meeting of other pathologists when one of them blurted out that a trained monkey could cut slides. My pathologist, having had the opportunity to review some cases from the offender's laboratory, promptly replied Yes, and with the quality of your slides it looks like you did just that. She shut down the other pathologist really quickly, and as far as I know, we never received another case to review from him. My pathologist was not about to let that kind of arrogance stand. She was one of the best bosses I ever had! Mark Turner, Ph.D., HT(ASCP)QIHC Manager, Histology/IHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Paula Sicurello Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:47 PM To: Michael Ann Jones Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald; Marcum, Pamela A; Timothy Morken Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I've had more than one pathologist tell me a monkey could do my job. Though one of them said it with a smile and added a very highly skilled and well trained monkey, he was one of the few who knew better. How many of us monkeys have trained the whining and complaining residents how to do things correctly? Paula On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Michael Ann Jones mjo...@metropath.com wrote: OMG Pam~ our pathologist said the exact same thing to us when we started our Grossing training. Sheesh. . . Michael Ann On 3/24/15, 11:52 AM, Marcum, Pamela A pamar...@uams.edu wrote: That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet - - Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology
Fortunately times have changed. The person I replaced in the late 70's early 80's had been brought in from the hospital laundry and was trained. They were still pouring embedding molds then. She did a beautiful job at cutting and staining HE slides and 2 or 3 specials but that was all there was to do. This world has come a lot farther than those days of the 80's and 70's. We have grown into fully capable labs that don't have to send work out to the big reference centers to have tests done. I remember a class with Lee Luna when he said We have to excel and learn these immuno procedures or the MT's were going to take them away from us. We learned and they didn't! We may not be recognized at the level with MT's but we are slowly changing and getting there. At least now an associates is required and CEU's are required. I think that's progress. If you're looked down on in your present position move on! It's not worth it. Linda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Marcum, Pamela A Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 1:53 PM To: 'Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID)'; Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology That was nicer than the pathologist who told me years ago, any monkey could be trained to do my job. I basically did not take the job I was interviewing for at the time. At least the next interview went a lot better and I did take the job. Pam -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sanders, Jeanine (CDC/OID/NCEZID) Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:30 PM To: Sue; Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: RE: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology I agree, BUTas long as many pathologists think you can teach any trained dog how to section histology will never have the recognition those of us that have studied and trained deserve. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Sue Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:59 PM To: Timothy Morken Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Jennifer MacDonald Subject: Re: [Histonet] BS in Histotechnology This is a fight that we continue to have with hospital administration. In my opinion histologists are just as important and needed as MT. Even though there is an increase in automation in pathology the hands on of a histologists is most important. The fact that hospital still consider a lower entry job is the reason there are not more of us. It is quite frustrating. Sue TJUH ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
