RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more enlightened management that is to be found here!. Cheers Richard Edwards -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: 30 August 2011 18:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 2) no special staining experience 3) no embedding experience 4) no cutting experience When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or quality that is needed in our industry. While they can answer any question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one would expect from a new graduate. I have learned several lessons from this experience. 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the practical 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the selection process. 3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular program While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. Respectfully, Matt Lunetta BS, HT (ASCP) Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 From: Gudrun Lang Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical To: 'Bob Richmond' Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: 8b7976b131854abc8db236fab5026...@dielangs.at Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Dr. Richmond Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years experience. ;) Please, think it over to come. Lovely mountains, lovely techs... It sounds, like you are from that sort of pathologist techs dream of. Gudrun -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Bob Richmond Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. August 2011 04:43 An: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Betreff: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical I really appreciate Peggy Wenk's analysis of the practical examination and why it had to be dropped. I never really understood the issue before. I must confess I always enjoyed helping the prospective examinee obtain exactly the right tissue. No, this endometrium is poorly preserved. We'll arrange with surgery for a completely fresh specimen - I'll block it initially for the diagnosis, then we'll fix it overnight and then block it exactly to specifications. - Ick - this one's been curetted - we'll get another one. I'll block the margins of this colon resection specimen, then we'll pin a portion of tissue onto paraffin and fix it flat overnight. Next time I do an autopsy we'll get a lumbar spinal cord in the intact dura. I'll open the dura dorsally and ventrally with iridectomy scissors, then we'll hang it in neutral buffered formalin for two days. Then I'll tie the dura and dependent nerves with a cotton string. When you embed you'll remove the string, taking care that dura and nerves remain in position. After that it's all yours. If it doesn't work the first time, we've got three more levels in the jar. OK, I'm a geek, I'm 72 years old, I got a right. Bob Richmond Samurai Pathologist Knoxville TN ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
Histoland: I have to agree also. Programs that are graduating students with none of the skills listed in Matt's message are not doing their students or the profession any favors. Programs certified to produce graduates should be required to place these students in rotations that give them practical experience and manual skills. As a University based hospital we collaborate with area programs to provide their students with a practical rotation. Believe me they must get up to speed quickly under our tutelage and leave having learned the skills or they do not pass our rotation. If programs are just training students to pass the ASCP written exam without any practical experience either on site at the program or in collaboration with real labs then that is indeed a sad state of affairs and one that we as professionals should address via NSH and ASCP. The practical may not have been the answer for everyone but we should not allow students to graduate without basic practical skills. Thanks. Joe Galbraith Univ of Iowa -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Shirley A. Powell Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:32 PM To: Weems, Joyce; Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I second that Joyce. sp From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 2) no special staining experience 3) no embedding experience 4) no cutting experience When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or quality that is needed in our industry. While they can answer any question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one would expect from a new graduate. I have learned several lessons from this experience. 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the practical 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the selection process. 3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular program While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. Respectfully, Matt Lunetta BS, HT (ASCP) Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 From: Gudrun Lang Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical To: 'Bob Richmond' Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: 8b7976b131854abc8db236fab5026...@dielangs.at Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Dr. Richmond Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years experience. ;) Please, think it over to come. Lovely mountains, lovely techs... It sounds, like you are from that sort of pathologist techs dream of. Gudrun -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Bob Richmond Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. August 2011 04:43 An: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Betreff: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical I really appreciate Peggy Wenk's analysis of the practical examination and
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
You might be surprised I too agree with Joyce and Richard. I understand very well that a new graduate will not be up to the skill level of an individual that has been working for a while. What I am surprised about is that this program seemed to teach to pass the test and has left all of the technical skills left to be taught by the persons 1st job. This could lead to several painful experiences for not only the facility but the new HT. Were is the disconnect. If a person is doing the OJT route they need to have at least one year of experience signed-off by a pathologist. If a person goes through a program who is responsible for making sure that the base-skills are there? Is there not some standards that a new graduate should be able to cut/embed so many blocks in an hour? Is it reasonable for a new graduate to take 1.5 hours to cut 5 (uterus, appendix, tonsil) one-cuts? From facing to lifting the slide off the water-bath? Or to take 2hrs to embed 15 (large tissue sections) one-cut blocks? So Richard is also right how is a new grad to get experiance without that 1st gig? But how much resposiblity should be placed on the 1st gig to train a new HT that is supose to have base skills in lab equipment, cutting, embeding, staining etal? More thoughts ciao Matt Lunetta BS HT(ASCP) Edwards, Richard E. r...@leicester.ac.uk If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more enlightened management that is to be found here!. Cheers Richard Edwards Shirley A. Powell 08/30/11 6:32 PM I second that Joyce. sp From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 2) no special staining experience 3) no embedding experience 4) no cutting experience When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or quality that is nee ded in our industry. While they can answer any question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one would expect from a new graduate. I have learned several lessons from this experience. 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the practical 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the selection process. 3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular program While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. Respectfully, Matt Lunetta BS, HT (ASCP) Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 From: Gudrun Lang Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical To: 'Bob Richmond' Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: 8b7976b131854abc8db236fab5026...@dielangs.at Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Dr. Richmond Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years experience. ;) Please, think
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
Regardless of all the reasoning and good intentions, or even advantages eliminating the practical part of the ASCP (either HT or HTL) and concentrating in the theory only, is like graduating a medical student without doing any hospital rotations. I would not want to be treated by such an MD. If cheating in the exam was a given it is because those who were supposed to do the training were not doing their job correctly. I would not want to have a recently certified HT(ASCP) in my lab that I would have to train the practical aspects of the trade. I would expect that such a certified HT would be able to work with quality since the beginning. You can never correct a wrong by doing another even greater wrong. René J --- On Wed, 8/31/11, Galbraith, Joe joseph-galbra...@uiowa.edu wrote: From: Galbraith, Joe joseph-galbra...@uiowa.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin To: Shirley A. Powell powell...@mercer.edu, Weems, Joyce jwe...@sjha.org, Matthew Lunetta mlune...@luhcares.org, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 9:36 AM Histoland: I have to agree also. Programs that are graduating students with none of the skills listed in Matt's message are not doing their students or the profession any favors. Programs certified to produce graduates should be required to place these students in rotations that give them practical experience and manual skills. As a University based hospital we collaborate with area programs to provide their students with a practical rotation. Believe me they must get up to speed quickly under our tutelage and leave having learned the skills or they do not pass our rotation. If programs are just training students to pass the ASCP written exam without any practical experience either on site at the program or in collaboration with real labs then that is indeed a sad state of affairs and one that we as professionals should address via NSH and ASCP. The practical may not have been the answer for everyone but we should not allow students to graduate without basic practical skills. Thanks. Joe Galbraith Univ of Iowa -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Shirley A. Powell Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:32 PM To: Weems, Joyce; Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I second that Joyce. sp From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 2) no special staining experience 3) no embedding experience 4) no cutting experience When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or quality that is needed in our industry. While they can answer any question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one would expect from a new graduate. I have learned several lessons from this experience. 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the practical 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the selection process. 3) I will
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
I went through histo school (in 1983-84) and we were taught the skills needed to work in a hospital lab- Many of these came into play when we were preparing our practical. I had to cut at my interview, being a new grad, and once I was hired I had my 3 months probation to have the quality and quantity of the techs already there, most of them had been in the field at least 10 years, so I had a basis and a goal to meet in a short time. I survived and worked there for 15 years and learned how to crank out the work with the needed quality. If trained properly, it should not be a problem. You relearn/adapt your skills to do what is needed in your job- that is the reason I was hired- the hospital wanted a tech easy to retrain to their procedures. Bear in mind, OTJ is no longer a viable route (last I heard) Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Senior Research Tech Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL Robert. H. Lurie Cancer Center Northwestern University 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 b-freder...@northwestern.edu -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:15 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin You might be surprised I too agree with Joyce and Richard. I understand very well that a new graduate will not be up to the skill level of an individual that has been working for a while. What I am surprised about is that this program seemed to teach to pass the test and has left all of the technical skills left to be taught by the persons 1st job. This could lead to several painful experiences for not only the facility but the new HT. Were is the disconnect. If a person is doing the OJT route they need to have at least one year of experience signed-off by a pathologist. If a person goes through a program who is responsible for making sure that the base-skills are there? Is there not some standards that a new graduate should be able to cut/embed so many blocks in an hour? Is it reasonable for a new graduate to take 1.5 hours to cut 5 (uterus, appendix, tonsil) one-cuts? From facing to lifting the slide off the water-bath? Or to take 2hrs to embed 15 (large tissue sections) one-cut blocks? So Richard is also right how is a new grad to get experiance without that 1st gig? But how much resposiblity should be placed on the 1st gig to train a new HT that is supose to have base skills in lab equipment, cutting, embeding, staining etal? More thoughts ciao Matt Lunetta BS HT(ASCP) Edwards, Richard E. r...@leicester.ac.uk If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more enlightened management that is to be found here!. Cheers Richard Edwards Shirley A. Powell 08/30/11 6:32 PM I second that Joyce. sp From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons.
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
I have had one tech finish an online HT course and currently a second person looking at going the online route to her HT. In both cases as their supervisor I have had to sign on as their in house trainer. As a trainer it is my job to make sure that they know how to function well in Histology when they are finished. My first tech was working elsewhere when she started school and receive little support with her studies, one of the main reasons she came to work for me was how appalled I was to hear that she was getting not support. By the time she was finished I would of let her work on any specimen removed from either myself or anyone in my family. We get the HT's that we work to get. As a supervisor and trainer, I am only as good as my staff makes me look. If I can go on vacation and the lab does not miss a beat, then I have done my job correctly. So to everyone that gets a fresh tech who got short changed on their training, don't whine about it, take it as an opportunity to shape them to the HT that you need them to be. Tom Podawiltz HT (ASCP) Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer. LRGHealthcare Laconia, NH 03246 603-524-3211 ext: 3220 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:15 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin You might be surprised I too agree with Joyce and Richard. I understand very well that a new graduate will not be up to the skill level of an individual that has been working for a while. What I am surprised about is that this program seemed to teach to pass the test and has left all of the technical skills left to be taught by the persons 1st job. This could lead to several painful experiences for not only the facility but the new HT. Were is the disconnect. If a person is doing the OJT route they need to have at least one year of experience signed-off by a pathologist. If a person goes through a program who is responsible for making sure that the base-skills are there? Is there not some standards that a new graduate should be able to cut/embed so many blocks in an hour? Is it reasonable for a new graduate to take 1.5 hours to cut 5 (uterus, appendix, tonsil) one-cuts? From facing to lifting the slide off the water-bath? Or to take 2hrs to embed 15 (large tissue sections) one-cut blocks? So Richard is also right how is a new grad to get experiance without that 1st gig? But how much resposiblity should be placed on the 1st gig to train a new HT that is supose to have base skills in lab equipment, cutting, embeding, staining etal? More thoughts ciao Matt Lunetta BS HT(ASCP) Edwards, Richard E. r...@leicester.ac.uk If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more enlightened management that is to be found here!. Cheers Richard Edwards Shirley A. Powell 08/30/11 6:32 PM I second that Joyce. sp From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
Graduating students in histotech programs DO clinical rotations. They have hands-on experience. They are not just learning the theory from books. Rene J Buesa rjbu...@yahoo.com Sent by: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 08/31/2011 07:54 AM To Shirley A. Powell powell...@mercer.edu, JoyceWeems jwe...@sjha.org, Matthew Lunetta mlune...@luhcares.org, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, JoeGalbraith joseph-galbra...@uiowa.edu cc Subject RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To sticka Pin Regardless of all the reasoning and good intentions, or even advantages eliminating the practical part of the ASCP (either HT or HTL) and concentrating in the theory only, is like graduating a medical student without doing any hospital rotations. I would not want to be treated by such an MD. If cheating in the exam was a given it is because those who were supposed to do the training were not doing their job correctly. I would not want to have a recently certified HT(ASCP) in my lab that I would have to train the practical aspects of the trade. I would expect that such a certified HT would be able to work with quality since the beginning. You can never correct a wrong by doing another even greater wrong. René J --- On Wed, 8/31/11, Galbraith, Joe joseph-galbra...@uiowa.edu wrote: From: Galbraith, Joe joseph-galbra...@uiowa.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin To: Shirley A. Powell powell...@mercer.edu, Weems, Joyce jwe...@sjha.org, Matthew Lunetta mlune...@luhcares.org, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Wednesday, August 31, 2011, 9:36 AM Histoland: I have to agree also. Programs that are graduating students with none of the skills listed in Matt's message are not doing their students or the profession any favors. Programs certified to produce graduates should be required to place these students in rotations that give them practical experience and manual skills. As a University based hospital we collaborate with area programs to provide their students with a practical rotation. Believe me they must get up to speed quickly under our tutelage and leave having learned the skills or they do not pass our rotation. If programs are just training students to pass the ASCP written exam without any practical experience either on site at the program or in collaboration with real labs then that is indeed a sad state of affairs and one that we as professionals should address via NSH and ASCP. The practical may not have been the answer for everyone but we should not allow students to graduate without basic practical skills. Thanks. Joe Galbraith Univ of Iowa -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Shirley A. Powell Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:32 PM To: Weems, Joyce; Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I second that Joyce. sp From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a
Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
I have followed this for a while and was wondering why no one is bringing up the lack of Histology Schools and the small number of graduates they can produce per year as an issue. Online is fine if you have a lab to work in. However; one of the people no longer at this facility simply did his book work and an HT then offered himself as just that. He never cut a section or did a stain yet he passed so it is possible. Many of us are training OJTs again due to the lack of available people and the in our case the starting salary is low. It is said it is because we are not required to complete a BS for an HT only the HTL . It means we are doing as much as we can to train someone in only one lab with the small amount of time an understaffed Histology Laboratory has yet still have the best training for the field. We are not recognized fully as Laboratory Professionals yet so it is not really getting any better than it was years ago. Now we require a 2 year degree for education in science and not much help from the organizations that rule us beyond pay more money. Many of us are not able to go to meetings ( especially NSH ) due to costs to us personally as the hospitals and Universities are not paying for travel and very little for educational help. Pam Marcum - Original Message - From: Candice Smoots candice _ camille @yahoo.com To: Histonet histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:46:04 AM Subject: Re: [ Histonet ] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/ HTL practical - To sticka Pin If my memory severs me correctly. is not required that a canidate must also have lab experience inorder to take the exam wheather it be from a histotech program or on the job training. So anyone who becomes HT/ HTL certified should not only know basic theory but should also have atleast basic experience in micotomy , staining, fixation etc. I thought that this was the case for any of the routes that it takes to become certified. What I have found is that a person can start out in a specialty lab and work thier way up and get the work experience that is required to sit for the exam however because they only have experience in THAT lab, they are in a disadvantage because they do not have routine experience. For example, I know a person who started out in a research lab and was trained and worked thier way up in about 3 years. They studied and sat for the exam because they had the required work experience and passed. They are now certified. However, whenn they got employed at a hospital that mostly did routines, they did have to be trained a little to undertsand rouine histology. They had never done basic trichromes and they were slow at sectioning because speed was not as important where they were from. But the basic theory and micotmy , he had. I say all this to say.. Just because a person has the credientials does not mean that they have all the experience even though they are certified. So sometimes it may take a little training but i admit that it shouldnt take much as if they are a beginner... as they are certified. Thats just my opinion. I remain yours truely , Candice Camille From: Jennifer MacDonald JMacDonald @ mtsac . edu To: Rene J Buesa rjbuesa @yahoo.com Cc: histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu ; Matthew Lunetta MLunetta @ luhcares .org; JoyceWeems JWeems @ sjha .org; histonet -bounces@lists. utsouthwestern . edu ; Shirley A. Powell POWELL_SA@mercer. edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [ Histonet ] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/ HTL practical - To stick a Pin Graduating students in histotech programs DO clinical rotations. They have hands-on experience. They are not just learning the theory from books. Rene J Buesa rjbuesa @yahoo.com Sent by: histonet -bounces@lists. utsouthwestern . edu 08/31/2011 07:54 AM To Shirley A. Powell POWELL_SA@mercer. edu , JoyceWeems JWeems @ sjha .org, Matthew Lunetta MLunetta @ luhcares .org, histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu , JoeGalbraith joseph-galbraith@ uiowa . edu cc Subject RE: [ Histonet ] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/ HTL practical - To stick a Pin Regardless of all the reasoning and good intentions, or even advantages eliminating the practical part of the ASCP (either HT or HTL ) and concentrating in the theory only, is like graduating a medical student without doing any hospital rotations. I would not want to be treated by such an MD. If cheating in the exam was a given it is because those who were supposed to do the training were not doing their job correctly. I would not want to have a recently certified HT( ASCP ) in my lab that I would have to train the practical aspects of the trade. I would expect that such a certified HT would be able to work with
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
http://www.naacls.org/docs/Section3_HT.pdf NAACLS spells it out. Online Schools should be following the guidelines. If not they need to rethink their programs if they are approved by NAACLS. sp -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Marcum Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:02 PM To: Candice Smoots Cc: Histonet Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I have followed this for a while and was wondering why no one is bringing up the lack of Histology Schools and the small number of graduates they can produce per year as an issue. Online is fine if you have a lab to work in. However; one of the people no longer at this facility simply did his book work and an HT then offered himself as just that. He never cut a section or did a stain yet he passed so it is possible. Many of us are training OJTs again due to the lack of available people and the in our case the starting salary is low. It is said it is because we are not required to complete a BS for an HT only the HTL . It means we are doing as much as we can to train someone in only one lab with the small amount of time an understaffed Histology Laboratory has yet still have the best training for the field. We are not recognized fully as Laboratory Professionals yet so it is not really getting any better than it was years ago. Now we require a 2 year degree for education in science and not much help from the organizations that rule us beyond pay more money. Many of us are not able to go to meetings ( especially NSH ) due to costs to us personally as the hospitals and Universities are not paying for travel and very little for educational help. Pam Marcum - Original Message - From: Candice Smoots candice _ camille @yahoo.com To: Histonet histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:46:04 AM Subject: Re: [ Histonet ] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/ HTL practical - To sticka Pin If my memory severs me correctly. is not required that a canidate must also have lab experience inorder to take the exam wheather it be from a histotech program or on the job training. So anyone who becomes HT/ HTL certified should not only know basic theory but should also have atleast basic experience in micotomy , staining, fixation etc. I thought that this was the case for any of the routes that it takes to become certified. What I have found is that a person can start out in a specialty lab and work thier way up and get the work experience that is required to sit for the exam however because they only have experience in THAT lab, they are in a disadvantage because they do not have routine experience. For example, I know a person who started out in a research lab and was trained and worked thier way up in about 3 years. They studied and sat for the exam because they had the required work experience and passed. They are now certified. However, whenn they got employed at a hospital that mostly did routines, they did have to be trained a little to undertsand rouine histology. They had never done basic trichromes and they were slow at sectioning because speed was not as important where they were from. But the basic theory and micotmy , he had. I say all this to say.. Just because a person has the credientials does not mean that they have all the experience even though they are certified. So sometimes it may take a little training but i admit that it shouldnt take much as if they are a beginner... as they are certified. Thats just my opinion. I remain yours truely , Candice Camille From: Jennifer MacDonald JMacDonald @ mtsac . edu To: Rene J Buesa rjbuesa @yahoo.com Cc: histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu ; Matthew Lunetta MLunetta @ luhcares .org; JoyceWeems JWeems @ sjha .org; histonet -bounces@lists. utsouthwestern . edu ; Shirley A. Powell POWELL_SA@mercer. edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [ Histonet ] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/ HTL practical - To stick a Pin Graduating students in histotech programs DO clinical rotations. They have hands-on experience. They are not just learning the theory from books. Rene J Buesa rjbuesa @yahoo.com Sent by: histonet -bounces@lists. utsouthwestern . edu 08/31/2011 07:54 AM To Shirley A. Powell POWELL_SA@mercer. edu , JoyceWeems JWeems @ sjha .org, Matthew Lunetta MLunetta @ luhcares .org, histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu , JoeGalbraith joseph-galbraith@ uiowa . edu cc Subject RE: [ Histonet ] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/ HTL practical - To sticka Pin Regardless of all the reasoning and good intentions, or even advantages eliminating the practical part of the ASCP (either HT or HTL ) and concentrating in the
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
I understand the NAACLS rules and live in reality where it is not always followed due to expediency to have a registered HT. It is not the best way to control how we train new Histologists. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Shirley A. Powell Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:10 AM To: Pam Marcum; Candice Smoots Cc: Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin http://www.naacls.org/docs/Section3_HT.pdf NAACLS spells it out. Online Schools should be following the guidelines. If not they need to rethink their programs if they are approved by NAACLS. sp -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Marcum Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:02 PM To: Candice Smoots Cc: Histonet Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I have followed this for a while and was wondering why no one is bringing up the lack of Histology Schools and the small number of graduates they can produce per year as an issue. Online is fine if you have a lab to work in. However; one of the people no longer at this facility simply did his book work and an HT then offered himself as just that. He never cut a section or did a stain yet he passed so it is possible. Many of us are training OJTs again due to the lack of available people and the in our case the starting salary is low. It is said it is because we are not required to complete a BS for an HT only the HTL . It means we are doing as much as we can to train someone in only one lab with the small amount of time an understaffed Histology Laboratory has yet still have the best training for the field. We are not recognized fully as Laboratory Professionals yet so it is not really getting any better than it was years ago. Now we require a 2 year degree for education in science and not much help from the organizations that rule us beyond pay more money. Many of us are not able to go to meetings ( especially NSH ) due to costs to us personally as the hospitals and Universities are not paying for travel and very little for educational help. Pam Marcum - Original Message - From: Candice Smoots candice _ camille @yahoo.com To: Histonet histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:46:04 AM Subject: Re: [ Histonet ] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/ HTL practical - To sticka Pin If my memory severs me correctly. is not required that a canidate must also have lab experience inorder to take the exam wheather it be from a histotech program or on the job training. So anyone who becomes HT/ HTL certified should not only know basic theory but should also have atleast basic experience in micotomy , staining, fixation etc. I thought that this was the case for any of the routes that it takes to become certified. What I have found is that a person can start out in a specialty lab and work thier way up and get the work experience that is required to sit for the exam however because they only have experience in THAT lab, they are in a disadvantage because they do not have routine experience. For example, I know a person who started out in a research lab and was trained and worked thier way up in about 3 years. They studied and sat for the exam because they had the required work experience and passed. They are now certified. However, whenn they got employed at a hospital that mostly did routines, they did have to be trained a little to undertsand rouine histology. They had never done basic trichromes and they were slow at sectioning because speed was not as important where they were from. But the basic theory and micotmy , he had. I say all this to say.. Just because a person has the credientials does not mean that they have all the experience even though they are certified. So sometimes it may take a little training but i admit that it shouldnt take much as if they are a beginner... as they are certified. Thats just my opinion. I remain yours truely , Candice Camille From: Jennifer MacDonald JMacDonald @ mtsac . edu To: Rene J Buesa rjbuesa @yahoo.com Cc: histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu histonet @lists. utsouthwestern . edu ; Matthew Lunetta MLunetta @ luhcares .org; JoyceWeems JWeems @ sjha .org; histonet -bounces@lists. utsouthwestern . edu ; Shirley A. Powell POWELL_SA@mercer. edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [ Histonet ] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/ HTL practical - To stick a Pin Graduating students in histotech programs DO clinical rotations. They have hands-on experience. They are not just learning the theory from books. Rene J Buesa rjbuesa @yahoo.com Sent by: histonet -bounces@lists. utsouthwestern . edu
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
Yes, the old you need experience to get the job, and you need the job to get experience Joelle Weaver MAOM, BA, (HTL) ASCP From: r...@leicester.ac.uk To: mlune...@luhcares.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:31:25 +0100 Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin CC: If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more enlightened management that is to be found here!. Cheers Richard Edwards -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: 30 August 2011 18:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 2) no special staining experience 3) no embedding experience 4) no cutting experience When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or quality that is needed in our industry. While they can answer any question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one would expect from a new graduate. I have learned several lessons from this experience. 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the practical 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the selection process. 3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular program While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. Respectfully, Matt Lunetta BS, HT (ASCP) Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 From: Gudrun Lang Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical To: 'Bob Richmond' Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: 8b7976b131854abc8db236fab5026...@dielangs.at Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Dr. Richmond Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years experience. ;) Please, think it over to come. Lovely mountains, lovely techs... It sounds, like you are from that sort of pathologist techs dream of. Gudrun -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Bob Richmond Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. August 2011 04:43 An: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Betreff: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical I really appreciate Peggy Wenk's analysis of the practical examination and why it had to be dropped. I never really understood the issue before. I must confess I always enjoyed helping the prospective examinee obtain exactly the right tissue. No, this endometrium is poorly preserved. We'll arrange with surgery for a completely fresh specimen - I'll block it initially for the diagnosis, then we'll fix it overnight and then block it exactly to specifications. - Ick - this one's been curetted - we'll get another one. I'll block the margins of this colon resection specimen, then we'll pin a portion of tissue onto paraffin and fix it flat overnight. Next time I do an autopsy we'll get a lumbar spinal cord in the intact dura. I'll open the dura dorsally and ventrally with iridectomy scissors, then we'll hang it in neutral buffered formalin for two days. Then I'll tie the dura and dependent nerves with a cotton string. When you embed you'll remove the string, taking care that dura and nerves remain in position. After that it's all yours. If it doesn't work the first time, we've got three more levels in the jar. OK, I'm a geek, I'm 72 years old, I got a right. Bob Richmond Samurai Pathologist Knoxville TN ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
Matt, your first paragraph is exactly correct in my experience with directing a program. And yes, it did produce very unfortunate results in some cases. Almost to the point of negligence, I came to feel in some situations on the part of the school ( test score focus, seemingly little concern if they were actually knowledgable, prepared or safe for themselves and patients) . My pleas for understanding, actual and financial support, fell on deaf ears...against mounting budget and funding pressures I reasoned. But all the school focus seemed to be outcomes which for them= test scores tied to state money, and NOT actual proficiency or prepartion to work competently in all areas of histology (as it meant for me). It was really disheartening, and I also agree that what I saw were some definate disconnects as you have identified (Matt Lunetta's post). Joelle Weaver MAOM, BA, (HTL) ASCP Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:15:29 -0600 From: mlune...@luhcares.org To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin You might be surprised I too agree with Joyce and Richard. I understand very well that a new graduate will not be up to the skill level of an individual that has been working for a while. What I am surprised about is that this program seemed to teach to pass the test and has left all of the technical skills left to be taught by the persons 1st job. This could lead to several painful experiences for not only the facility but the new HT. Were is the disconnect. If a person is doing the OJT route they need to have at least one year of experience signed-off by a pathologist. If a person goes through a program who is responsible for making sure that the base-skills are there? Is there not some standards that a new graduate should be able to cut/embed so many blocks in an hour? Is it reasonable for a new graduate to take 1.5 hours to cut 5 (uterus, appendix, tonsil) one-cuts? From facing to lifting the slide off the water-bath? Or to take 2hrs to embed 15 (large tissue sections) one-cut blocks? So Richard is also right how is a new grad to get experiance without that 1st gig? But how much resposiblity should be placed on the 1st gig to train a new HT that is supose to have base skills in lab equipment, cutting, embeding, staining etal? More thoughts ciao Matt Lunetta BS HT(ASCP) Edwards, Richard E. r...@leicester.ac.uk If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more enlightened management that is to be found here!. Cheers Richard Edwards Shirley A. Powell 08/30/11 6:32 PM I second that Joyce. sp From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 2) no special
Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
How do you become a certified HT and not have any lab experience?! That's crazy. Not that i know anything about being an HT, but I'm a lab tech and I can't imagine going into the job never having been in a lab at all. What exactly do they teach you?! Emily A great book should leave you with many experiences, and slightly exhausted. You should live several lives while reading it. -William Styron ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
I will clarify. This person worked in the gross room as a PA and decided he wanted an HT. So he watched over the shoulders of the histologists and learned enough to see the basics and then studied for the exam without ever cutting or staining a slide in Histology. His theory was - I cut frozens and do HEs it won't be hard to pass a test with no practical and no one is checking to really see what I know besides what I learned in books and through acquiring testing examples so why not. Guess what it was enough and he has an HT now. I don't believe he has ever worked in the field as he is gone now and somewhere out of state. Pam - Original Message - From: Emily Sours talulahg...@gmail.com To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:52:43 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To sticka Pin How do you become a certified HT and not have any lab experience?! That's crazy. Not that i know anything about being an HT, but I'm a lab tech and I can't imagine going into the job never having been in a lab at all. What exactly do they teach you?! Emily A great book should leave you with many experiences, and slightly exhausted. You should live several lives while reading it. -William Styron ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
But, to take the test you need an affidavit from the pathologist that you worked in the histology lab for at least a year. So something fishy there... Tim Morken -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Marcum Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:54 AM To: Emily Sours Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I will clarify. This person worked in the gross room as a PA and decided he wanted an HT. So he watched over the shoulders of the histologists and learned enough to see the basics and then studied for the exam without ever cutting or staining a slide in Histology. His theory was - I cut frozens and do HEs it won't be hard to pass a test with no practical and no one is checking to really see what I know besides what I learned in books and through acquiring testing examples so why not. Guess what it was enough and he has an HT now. I don't believe he has ever worked in the field as he is gone now and somewhere out of state. Pam - Original Message - From: Emily Sours talulahg...@gmail.com To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:52:43 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To sticka Pin How do you become a certified HT and not have any lab experience?! That's crazy. Not that i know anything about being an HT, but I'm a lab tech and I can't imagine going into the job never having been in a lab at all. What exactly do they teach you?! Emily A great book should leave you with many experiences, and slightly exhausted. You should live several lives while reading it. -William Styron ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
Tim, I understand that and he got one to sign it!! So it can be done and yes it is not legal or fair and unfortunately, it is not the first time I have heard of it just the first time I actually could verify. Way too late when I got here and it shows we have flaws in the system that are not being seen. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:11 PM To: 'Pam Marcum'; Emily Sours Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin But, to take the test you need an affidavit from the pathologist that you worked in the histology lab for at least a year. So something fishy there... Tim Morken -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Marcum Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:54 AM To: Emily Sours Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I will clarify. This person worked in the gross room as a PA and decided he wanted an HT. So he watched over the shoulders of the histologists and learned enough to see the basics and then studied for the exam without ever cutting or staining a slide in Histology. His theory was - I cut frozens and do HEs it won't be hard to pass a test with no practical and no one is checking to really see what I know besides what I learned in books and through acquiring testing examples so why not. Guess what it was enough and he has an HT now. I don't believe he has ever worked in the field as he is gone now and somewhere out of state. Pam - Original Message - From: Emily Sours talulahg...@gmail.com To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:52:43 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To sticka Pin How do you become a certified HT and not have any lab experience?! That's crazy. Not that i know anything about being an HT, but I'm a lab tech and I can't imagine going into the job never having been in a lab at all. What exactly do they teach you?! Emily A great book should leave you with many experiences, and slightly exhausted. You should live several lives while reading it. -William Styron ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
Just curious, does NAACLS perform inspections like CAP to re-accredit and are all the programs out there NAACLS accredited? Victor Tobias HT(ASCP) Clinical Applications Analyst University of Washington Medical Center Dept of Pathology Room BB220 1959 NE Pacific Seattle, WA 98195 vic...@pathology.washington.edu 206-744-2735 206-744-8240 Fax = Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and any attachments. On 8/31/2011 12:16 PM, Marcum, Pamela A wrote: Tim, I understand that and he got one to sign it!! So it can be done and yes it is not legal or fair and unfortunately, it is not the first time I have heard of it just the first time I actually could verify. Way too late when I got here and it shows we have flaws in the system that are not being seen. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Timothy Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:11 PM To: 'Pam Marcum'; Emily Sours Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin But, to take the test you need an affidavit from the pathologist that you worked in the histology lab for at least a year. So something fishy there... Tim Morken -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pam Marcum Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 11:54 AM To: Emily Sours Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I will clarify. This person worked in the gross room as a PA and decided he wanted an HT. So he watched over the shoulders of the histologists and learned enough to see the basics and then studied for the exam without ever cutting or staining a slide in Histology. His theory was - I cut frozens and do HEs it won't be hard to pass a test with no practical and no one is checking to really see what I know besides what I learned in books and through acquiring testing examples so why not. Guess what it was enough and he has an HT now. I don't believe he has ever worked in the field as he is gone now and somewhere out of state. Pam - Original Message - From: Emily Sourstalulahg...@gmail.com To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 12:52:43 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin How do you become a certified HT and not have any lab experience?! That's crazy. Not that i know anything about being an HT, but I'm a lab tech and I can't imagine going into the job never having been in a lab at all. What exactly do they teach you?! Emily A great book should leave you with many experiences, and slightly exhausted. You should live several lives while reading it. -William Styron ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
Just to let you know, I don't let new techs near prostate, liver or any other kind of needle biopsy for at least a year. Why put them under that kind of pressure? I want them to stay in the field. I figure working for me is torture enough. We give new techs up to three years to get up to speed and pass the exam. Tom Podawiltz, HT (ASCP) Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer LRGHealthcare 603-524-3211 ext: 3220 From: Matthew Lunetta [mlune...@luhcares.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 1:29 PM To: joellewea...@hotmail.com; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Podawiltz, Thomas; b-freder...@northwestern.edu; hborg...@wakehealth.edu; rjbu...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Tom, I feel that this is very important conversation, not whining about the situation but shining a very bright light on an important subject. I agree that it is an opportunity to help shape a new HT if several factors are in place, the facility can afford the time, cost and personnel that it takes to train. Oh by and by the new HT is coming along and it will take months (much longer than the 3 probationary) to get them to the right place, luckily we can afford (just barley) the time, cost and personnel. At this time 2 months into the process they are not cutting small BX, STATS, embedding of BX, no immuno work and are not to be left alone in the lab. We are hopeful for a good outcome. Matt Lunetta BS HT (ASCP) Podawiltz, Thomas tpodawi...@lrgh.org 08/31/11 8:59 AM I have had one tech finish an online HT course and currently a second person looking at going the online route to her HT. In both cases as their supervisor I have had to sign on as their in house trainer. As a trainer it is my job to make sure that they know how to function well in Histology when they are finished. My first tech was working elsewhere when she started school and receive little support with her studies, one of the main reasons she came to work for me was how appalled I was to hear that she was getting not support. By the time she was finished I would of let her work on any specimen removed from either myself or anyone in my family. We get the HT's that we work to get. As a supervisor and trainer, I am only as good as my staff makes me look. If I can go on vacation and the lab does not miss a beat, then I have done my job correctly. So to everyone that gets a fresh tech who got short changed on their training, don't whine about it, take it as an opportunity to shape them to the HT that you need them to be. Tom Podawiltz HT (ASCP) Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer. LRGHealthcare Laconia, NH 03246 603-524-3211 ext: 3220 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:15 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin You might be surprised I too agree with Joyce and Richard. I understand very well that a new graduate will not be up to the skill level of an individual that has been working for a while. What I am surprised about is that this program seemed to teach to pass the test and has left all of the technical skills left to be taught by the persons 1st job. This could lead to several painful experiences for not only the facility but the new HT. Were is the disconnect. If a person is doing the OJT route they need to have at least one year of experience signed-off by a pathologist. If a person goes through a program who is responsible for making sure that the base-skills are there? Is there not some standards that a new graduate should be able to cut/embed so many blocks in an hour? Is it reasonable for a new graduate to take 1.5 hours to cut 5 (uterus, appendix, tonsil) one-cuts? From facing to lifting the slide off the water-bath? Or to take 2hrs to embed 15 (large tissue sections) one-cut blocks? So Richard is also right how is a new grad to get experiance without that 1st gig? But how much resposiblity should be placed on the 1st gig to train a new HT that is supose to have base skills in lab equipment, cutting, embeding, staining etal? More thoughts ciao Matt Lunetta BS HT(ASCP) Edwards, Richard E. r...@leicester.ac.uk If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more enlightened management that is to be found here!. Cheers Richard Edwards Shirley A. Powell 08/30/11 6:32 PM I second that
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 2) no special staining experience 3) no embedding experience 4) no cutting experience When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or quality that is needed in our industry. While they can answer any question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one would expect from a new graduate. I have learned several lessons from this experience. 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the practical 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the selection process. 3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular program While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. Respectfully, Matt Lunetta BS, HT (ASCP) Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 From: Gudrun Lang Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical To: 'Bob Richmond' Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: 8b7976b131854abc8db236fab5026...@dielangs.at Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Dr. Richmond Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years experience. ;) Please, think it over to come. Lovely mountains, lovely techs... It sounds, like you are from that sort of pathologist techs dream of. Gudrun -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Bob Richmond Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. August 2011 04:43 An: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Betreff: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical I really appreciate Peggy Wenk's analysis of the practical examination and why it had to be dropped. I never really understood the issue before. I must confess I always enjoyed helping the prospective examinee obtain exactly the right tissue. No, this endometrium is poorly preserved. We'll arrange with surgery for a completely fresh specimen - I'll block it initially for the diagnosis, then we'll fix it overnight and then block it exactly to specifications. - Ick - this one's been curetted - we'll get another one. I'll block the margins of this colon resection specimen, then we'll pin a portion of tissue onto paraffin and fix it flat overnight. Next time I do an autopsy we'll get a lumbar spinal cord in the intact dura. I'll open the dura dorsally and ventrally with iridectomy scissors, then we'll hang it in neutral buffered formalin for two days. Then I'll tie the dura and dependent nerves with a cotton string. When you embed you'll remove the string, taking care that dura and nerves remain in position. After that it's all yours. If it doesn't work the first time, we've got three more levels in the jar. OK, I'm a geek, I'm 72 years old, I got a right. Bob Richmond Samurai Pathologist Knoxville TN ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Catholic Health East and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized
RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin
I second that Joyce. sp From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce [jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their Clinicals. They know how to do those things, are trained by the clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their skill. My 2 cents... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Lunetta Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick a Pin Hey all, I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to have. What they did not have was any technical skills. 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. 2) no special staining experience 3) no embedding experience 4) no cutting experience When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or quality that is needed in our industry. While they can answer any question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one would expect from a new graduate. I have learned several lessons from this experience. 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the practical 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the selection process. 3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular program While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. Respectfully, Matt Lunetta BS, HT (ASCP) Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 From: Gudrun Lang Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical To: 'Bob Richmond' Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: 8b7976b131854abc8db236fab5026...@dielangs.at Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Dr. Richmond Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years experience. ;) Please, think it over to come. Lovely mountains, lovely techs... It sounds, like you are from that sort of pathologist techs dream of. Gudrun -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Bob Richmond Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. August 2011 04:43 An: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Betreff: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical I really appreciate Peggy Wenk's analysis of the practical examination and why it had to be dropped. I never really understood the issue before. I must confess I always enjoyed helping the prospective examinee obtain exactly the right tissue. No, this endometrium is poorly preserved. We'll arrange with surgery for a completely fresh specimen - I'll block it initially for the diagnosis, then we'll fix it overnight and then block it exactly to specifications. - Ick - this one's been curetted - we'll get another one. I'll block the margins of this colon resection specimen, then we'll pin a portion of tissue onto paraffin and fix it flat overnight. Next time I do an autopsy we'll get a lumbar spinal cord in the intact dura. I'll open the dura dorsally and ventrally with iridectomy scissors, then we'll hang it in neutral buffered formalin for two days. Then I'll tie the dura and dependent nerves with a cotton string. When you embed you'll remove the string, taking care that dura and nerves remain in position. After that it's all yours. If it doesn't work the first time, we've got three more levels in the jar. OK, I'm a geek, I'm 72 years old, I got a right. Bob Richmond Samurai Pathologist Knoxville TN ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list
