RE: [hlcoders] A more perfect (plugin) union...
I say dump the plug-in system, have Valve do some exports and have the community make their own third party plug-in system, such as Metamod. That way, Valve doesn't have yet another project to do, and when we want to do something with a plug-in, we don't have to beg valve to add the ability for us to do something, we can just do it ourselves. IMO, The plug-in SDK is pretty much useless, I can't even create useful entities, or modify existing ones without going all evil crazy monkey programmer with memory address's, which of course the offsets change everything someone at Valve decides to do an update, meaning more evil crazy monkey programming. I have a doubt that they will make the plug-in system as powerful as, say, the metamod plug-in interface, which lets us fool with every engine function and DLL function. In the current plug-in SDK, I see nothing that would allow anything like this. This is my opinion of course, and I hope I'm wrong. I hope server side mods of already existing mods (without the source to the mod) are not a thing of the past, because sometimes a mod might already be great, and you just want to add your own touch to it such as, changing a weapon around a bit, making an entity do things a little differently, making players spawn with giant Mexican hats on their head, shooting fireworks at other players... and so on :P. - Spencer "voogru" MacDonald ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] player_say?
I never receive this event. I get others like player_hurt but not say. I run hl2mp and a dedicated server with the plugin. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 11:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? player_say is an event and will be fired in the FireGameEvent function. Greets Ronny > It seems like the only function that is called when a player uses the say > command is SetCommandIndex (or something like that). I couldn't get > ClientCommand to work with it. > > - Original Message - > From: "Josh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:41 PM > Subject: RE: [hlcoders] player_say? > > >> Why not register it as a say command? Couldn't we then block it? >> >> Or is it not possible to block a player's say command yet. >> >> Josh >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel >> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:16 AM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? >> >> >> Dont register say as a concommand. >> >> Greets >> Ronny >> >> >>> I'm also not getting player_say. Anybody know a solution? >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny >>> Schedel >>> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:35 PM >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? >>> >>> Wierd, I get player_say now trough FireGameEvent. Anyways, a >>> documentation would be nice. >>> >>> Greets >>> Ronny >>> >>> Since the latest update, there should be a player_say event. But I dont get this event via FireGameEvent nor via ClientCommand in CS:S. Where is the event? Instead I get some more undocumented events like player_footstep, door_moving, bullet_impact. Do we get some documentation for this? And, HudMsg is still not working in CS:S. Greets Ronny ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] A more perfect (plugin) union...
*sits on Valve's lap* This is what I want for Christams... namespace WhatShouldBeAvailableToPluginsButAreNot { // * Something similar to the UTIL_PrintAll functions et. all. class CBasePlayer; // or some form of interface class CBaseTeam; // ^ likewise } Currently, a "more rich plugin API" is saying -a lot-, guys. This is what I currenty have for the visual-text representation in my mind: Server and Client API => Chunky Belgian boy named Hanz, whose face is smeered with chocolate. Plugin API => Holocaust survivor on VE Day. Come on now... However, good work so far guys! Thanks. --Roy "Kylratix" Laurie http://www.hl2-dev.com/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] player_say?
player_say is an event and will be fired in the FireGameEvent function. Greets Ronny It seems like the only function that is called when a player uses the say command is SetCommandIndex (or something like that). I couldn't get ClientCommand to work with it. - Original Message - From: "Josh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:41 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] player_say? Why not register it as a say command? Couldn't we then block it? Or is it not possible to block a player's say command yet. Josh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Dont register say as a concommand. Greets Ronny I'm also not getting player_say. Anybody know a solution? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Wierd, I get player_say now trough FireGameEvent. Anyways, a documentation would be nice. Greets Ronny Since the latest update, there should be a player_say event. But I dont get this event via FireGameEvent nor via ClientCommand in CS:S. Where is the event? Instead I get some more undocumented events like player_footstep, door_moving, bullet_impact. Do we get some documentation for this? And, HudMsg is still not working in CS:S. Greets Ronny ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] player_say?
It seems like the only function that is called when a player uses the say command is SetCommandIndex (or something like that). I couldn't get ClientCommand to work with it. - Original Message - From: "Josh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:41 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] player_say? Why not register it as a say command? Couldn't we then block it? Or is it not possible to block a player's say command yet. Josh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Dont register say as a concommand. Greets Ronny I'm also not getting player_say. Anybody know a solution? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Wierd, I get player_say now trough FireGameEvent. Anyways, a documentation would be nice. Greets Ronny Since the latest update, there should be a player_say event. But I dont get this event via FireGameEvent nor via ClientCommand in CS:S. Where is the event? Instead I get some more undocumented events like player_footstep, door_moving, bullet_impact. Do we get some documentation for this? And, HudMsg is still not working in CS:S. Greets Ronny ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] player_say?
Due to the lack of documentation for the new events, I used the following code to get the needed values: KeyValues* kv; kv=event->GetFirstValue(); while(kv) { Log("[VALUE] %s : %s\n", kv->GetName(), kv->GetString()); kv = kv->GetNextValue(); } There is no magic, you have to read the header files, nothing else. Greets Ronny I noticed the update as well, if anyone has any documentation on how to work it, please provide. Thanks, McFace - Original Message - From: "Ronny Schedel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? You can do what you want. But he asks why he doesnt get the player_say event. Greets Ronny Why not register it as a say command? Couldn't we then block it? Or is it not possible to block a player's say command yet. Josh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Dont register say as a concommand. Greets Ronny I'm also not getting player_say. Anybody know a solution? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Wierd, I get player_say now trough FireGameEvent. Anyways, a documentation would be nice. Greets Ronny Since the latest update, there should be a player_say event. But I dont get this event via FireGameEvent nor via ClientCommand in CS:S. Where is the event? Instead I get some more undocumented events like player_footstep, door_moving, bullet_impact. Do we get some documentation for this? And, HudMsg is still not working in CS:S. Greets Ronny ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] player_say?
I noticed the update as well, if anyone has any documentation on how to work it, please provide. Thanks, McFace - Original Message - From: "Ronny Schedel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? You can do what you want. But he asks why he doesnt get the player_say event. Greets Ronny Why not register it as a say command? Couldn't we then block it? Or is it not possible to block a player's say command yet. Josh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Dont register say as a concommand. Greets Ronny I'm also not getting player_say. Anybody know a solution? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Wierd, I get player_say now trough FireGameEvent. Anyways, a documentation would be nice. Greets Ronny Since the latest update, there should be a player_say event. But I dont get this event via FireGameEvent nor via ClientCommand in CS:S. Where is the event? Instead I get some more undocumented events like player_footstep, door_moving, bullet_impact. Do we get some documentation for this? And, HudMsg is still not working in CS:S. Greets Ronny ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] player_say?
You can do what you want. But he asks why he doesnt get the player_say event. Greets Ronny Why not register it as a say command? Couldn't we then block it? Or is it not possible to block a player's say command yet. Josh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Dont register say as a concommand. Greets Ronny I'm also not getting player_say. Anybody know a solution? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Wierd, I get player_say now trough FireGameEvent. Anyways, a documentation would be nice. Greets Ronny Since the latest update, there should be a player_say event. But I dont get this event via FireGameEvent nor via ClientCommand in CS:S. Where is the event? Instead I get some more undocumented events like player_footstep, door_moving, bullet_impact. Do we get some documentation for this? And, HudMsg is still not working in CS:S. Greets Ronny ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] player_say?
Why not register it as a say command? Couldn't we then block it? Or is it not possible to block a player's say command yet. Josh -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 6:16 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Dont register say as a concommand. Greets Ronny > I'm also not getting player_say. Anybody know a solution? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:35 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? > > Wierd, I get player_say now trough FireGameEvent. Anyways, a > documentation would be nice. > > Greets > Ronny > > >> Since the latest update, there should be a player_say event. >> But I dont get this event via FireGameEvent nor via ClientCommand >> in CS:S. Where is the event? >> Instead I get some more undocumented events like player_footstep, >> door_moving, bullet_impact. Do we get some documentation for >> this? >> And, HudMsg is still not working in CS:S. >> >> Greets >> Ronny >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Player Animations
This is as far as I have gotten (before getting sidetracked), as well. I posted to this list a couple weeks ago describing this exact problem (there is a screenshot there showing your initial problem before this recent finding .. if you want to dig through your history or the archives). Valve-- is there any timeframe when documentation regarding the animation layers will be posted? If this is a trivial feature, any pointers as to what we're missing? I understand there are more important things than SDK documentation but even a brief insight into what should be attempted would help us a long way. =) On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:31:23 -0600, Matthew Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a follow up listing what I've learned. It seems that the problem lies > with the call > to UpdateAimSequenceLayers(). Everything works so long as the upper animation > is doing > the same thing as the lower animation. For example, if the lower activity is > set to > ACT_RUN and the upper sequence is set to 'run_holding_all', then everything > works as > expected. However, if the lower activity is set to ACT_RUN and the upper is > set to > 'shoot_smg1', then the lower animation goes into the ragdoll mode and drags > the legs > across the floor. So it would seem that there is no way to combine a run > animation with > a shoot sequence since the shoot sequence is based on the model standing > still rather > than running. The same goes for trying to play a reload animation while > walking or > running. Is there is way to make the models work like they did in HL1 where > the upper > and lower animations were essentially indepedently settable, or do you just > not play > shoot and reload animations while moving? > > * > Well I tried the suggestions given by the Wavelength site, but as it > turns out, I had already made most of the recommended changes already, > except for blocking the rendering of the viewmodel in third person mode. > > After fighting with the problem some more, I finally got the the upper > body to render the correct animation, but despite my best efforts, the > lower body still refuses to accept the ACT_WALK animation. The lower > body is stuck in the ragdoll mode and just drags the legs and feet > across the floor during movement. I have also tried to brute force an > animation sequence onto the model by altering the "void > CBasePlayerAnimState::ComputeMainSequence()" such that it always selects > ACT_WALK as the ideal activity and selects "run_all" as the > 'animDesired'. It still refuses to accept the lower body animation. I'm > out of ideas. Any thoughts? > ** > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- Phil Bowens He who is the greatest of warriors overcomes and subdues himself. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] player_say?
Dont register say as a concommand. Greets Ronny I'm also not getting player_say. Anybody know a solution? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] player_say? Wierd, I get player_say now trough FireGameEvent. Anyways, a documentation would be nice. Greets Ronny Since the latest update, there should be a player_say event. But I dont get this event via FireGameEvent nor via ClientCommand in CS:S. Where is the event? Instead I get some more undocumented events like player_footstep, door_moving, bullet_impact. Do we get some documentation for this? And, HudMsg is still not working in CS:S. Greets Ronny ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] (from Plugin) Retrieving a edict_t* from UserID
AFAIK, the userid increments with every player joined. So after 2 maps, a player might have userid 60 or something. If there isn't a function to get the entity index from the userid, you could loop from 1 to maxplayers (passed to ServerActivate), call the function that gets userid from player entity index (it's in the engine interface), and compare the result of the function to your userid. Then, you can call PEntFromIndex on it. I may be wrong though :) PM - Original Message - From: "Roy Laurie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 2:59 AM Subject: [hlcoders] (from Plugin) Retrieving a edict_t* from UserID I had assumed that IVGameEngine::PEntFromIndex(int) would do the trick. However, when debugging, even as the userid is currently valid, the formentioned function returns what would seem a blank entity. So two questions arise... 1) Are not the userid and engine entity index the same? 2) Most importantly, what other options are there for retrieving the associated edict_t* - without- doing the obvious and storing it for later use from whichever function might provide it. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders