Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?

2007-01-25 Thread LDuke
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
This won't work if the client has cl_restrict_client_commands on.  I believe
the default setting is to restrict commands only on Valve games, but clients
can change it, and will very likely do so, especially on servers where
admins are abusing cexec commands through admin plugins.

I wouldn't use ClientCommand for anything that's essential to gameplay, like
clearing decals.



On 1/23/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 great, thanks, that worked like a charm!

 - Original Message -
 From: Teddy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?


  engine-ClientCommand( r_cleardecals\n );
 
  On 1/24/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
  --
  [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
  Hi guys,
 Has anyone figured out a method of removing all the special f/x
 decals
  at the start of a round (or at any point for that matter :) ?
  --
 
 
  ___
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
  please visit:
  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
 
 
 
  ___
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
  please visit:
  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
 
 


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



[hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects

2007-01-25 Thread Mukkan Yhti

Does anyone know where the server-side flash light effects are located? It's
driving me insane; I found them before by accident and changed it to pink
and now don't know where it is to change it back.

If anyone could help me out with this; it would make me super happy.

Thanks,
Mukkan

_
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects

2007-01-25 Thread Garry Newman
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
env_projectedtexture is a pretty good entity to look into if you want to
find out how the flashlights work.

It'd be more awesome if you could change the texture tho~ :v



On 1/25/07, Mukkan Yhtiö [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Does anyone know where the server-side flash light effects are located?
 It's
 driving me insane; I found them before by accident and changed it to pink
 and now don't know where it is to change it back.

 If anyone could help me out with this; it would make me super happy.

 Thanks,
 Mukkan

 _
 Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
 http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects

2007-01-25 Thread Mukkan Yhti

I don't seem to have that in my HL2DM base?



From: Garry Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:54:07 +

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
env_projectedtexture is a pretty good entity to look into if you want to
find out how the flashlights work.

It'd be more awesome if you could change the texture tho~ :v



On 1/25/07, Mukkan Yhtiö [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Does anyone know where the server-side flash light effects are located?
 It's
 driving me insane; I found them before by accident and changed it to
pink
 and now don't know where it is to change it back.

 If anyone could help me out with this; it would make me super happy.

 Thanks,
 Mukkan

 _
 Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
 http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



_
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects

2007-01-25 Thread Garry Newman
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hmm, it's documented at VDC:

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Env_projectedtexture

Maybe your code is out of date - this page seems to suggest it was added
2006-08-04

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SDK_Known_Issues_List_Fixed


On 1/25/07, Mukkan Yhtiö [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't seem to have that in my HL2DM base?


 From: Garry Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
 To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects
 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:54:07 +
 
 --
 [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
 env_projectedtexture is a pretty good entity to look into if you want to
 find out how the flashlights work.
 
 It'd be more awesome if you could change the texture tho~ :v
 
 
 
 On 1/25/07, Mukkan Yhtiö [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Does anyone know where the server-side flash light effects are
 located?
   It's
   driving me insane; I found them before by accident and changed it to
 pink
   and now don't know where it is to change it back.
  
   If anyone could help me out with this; it would make me super happy.
  
   Thanks,
   Mukkan
  
   _
   Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's
 FREE!
   http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
  
  
   ___
   To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
   please visit:
   http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
  
  
 --
 
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
 

 _
 Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
 http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects

2007-01-25 Thread Mukkan Yhti

Yep; the code is out of date. Any idea where the old flash light code is?



From: Garry Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:57:27 +

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Hmm, it's documented at VDC:

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Env_projectedtexture

Maybe your code is out of date - this page seems to suggest it was added
2006-08-04

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SDK_Known_Issues_List_Fixed


On 1/25/07, Mukkan Yhtiö [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't seem to have that in my HL2DM base?


 From: Garry Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
 To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects
 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 16:54:07 +
 
 --
 [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
 env_projectedtexture is a pretty good entity to look into if you want
to
 find out how the flashlights work.
 
 It'd be more awesome if you could change the texture tho~ :v
 
 
 
 On 1/25/07, Mukkan Yhtiö [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Does anyone know where the server-side flash light effects are
 located?
   It's
   driving me insane; I found them before by accident and changed it to
 pink
   and now don't know where it is to change it back.
  
   If anyone could help me out with this; it would make me super happy.
  
   Thanks,
   Mukkan
  
   _
   Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's
 FREE!
   http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
  
  
   ___
   To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives,
   please visit:
   http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
  
  
 --
 
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
 

 _
 Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
 http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



_
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?

2007-01-25 Thread Minh

so what would you use ?

- Original Message -
From: LDuke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?



--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
This won't work if the client has cl_restrict_client_commands on.  I
believe
the default setting is to restrict commands only on Valve games, but
clients
can change it, and will very likely do so, especially on servers where
admins are abusing cexec commands through admin plugins.

I wouldn't use ClientCommand for anything that's essential to gameplay,
like
clearing decals.



On 1/23/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


great, thanks, that worked like a charm!

- Original Message -
From: Teddy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?


 engine-ClientCommand( r_cleardecals\n );

 On 1/24/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
 --
 [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
 Hi guys,
Has anyone figured out a method of removing all the special f/x
decals
 at the start of a round (or at any point for that matter :) ?
 --


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders




___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders




___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects

2007-01-25 Thread Minh

The texture that they use is
effects/flashlight001.tga

Have fun!

- Original Message -
From: Garry Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Server Side Flashlight Effects


--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
env_projectedtexture is a pretty good entity to look into if you want to
find out how the flashlights work.

It'd be more awesome if you could change the texture tho~ :v



On 1/25/07, Mukkan Yhtiö [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Does anyone know where the server-side flash light effects are located?
It's
driving me insane; I found them before by accident and changed it to pink
and now don't know where it is to change it back.

If anyone could help me out with this; it would make me super happy.

Thanks,
Mukkan

_
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?

2007-01-25 Thread LDuke
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
I would guess there is a client-side function that you could use, but I
don't know much about the client since I've only done server plugins. I just
see people recommending ClientCommand on this list a lot and wanted to point
out that it won't always work.

Hopefully, someone else on the list knows what client-side code you could
use.


On 1/25/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 so what would you use ?

 - Original Message -
 From: LDuke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:17 AM
 Subject: Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?


  --
  [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
  This won't work if the client has cl_restrict_client_commands on.  I
  believe
  the default setting is to restrict commands only on Valve games, but
  clients
  can change it, and will very likely do so, especially on servers where
  admins are abusing cexec commands through admin plugins.
 
  I wouldn't use ClientCommand for anything that's essential to gameplay,
  like
  clearing decals.
 
 
 
  On 1/23/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  great, thanks, that worked like a charm!
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Teddy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
  Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?
 
 
   engine-ClientCommand( r_cleardecals\n );
  
   On 1/24/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
   --
   [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
   Hi guys,
  Has anyone figured out a method of removing all the special f/x
  decals
   at the start of a round (or at any point for that matter :) ?
   --
  
  
   ___
   To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives,
   please visit:
   http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
  
  
  
   ___
   To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives,
   please visit:
   http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
  
  
 
 
  ___
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
  please visit:
  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
 
 
  --
 
  ___
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
  please visit:
  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
 


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?

2007-01-25 Thread Tony \omega\ Sergi
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Here's what i did:
void Client_RoundReset()
{
[[snip]]
//clear all decals
engine-ClientCmd( r_cleardecals\n );
Msg(Client: Round Reset!\n);

}

which gets called from a UserMessage. (RoundReset)

On 1/25/07, Jay Stelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Just issue the client command from your client DLL instead of the
 server.   Cl_restrict_server_commands only affects client commands that
 come in over the network, not local ones.

  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LDuke
  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:04 PM
  To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?
 
  --
  [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I would
  guess there is a client-side function that you could use, but
  I don't know much about the client since I've only done
  server plugins. I just see people recommending ClientCommand
  on this list a lot and wanted to point out that it won't always work.
 
  Hopefully, someone else on the list knows what client-side
  code you could use.
 
 
  On 1/25/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   so what would you use ?
  
   - Original Message -
   From: LDuke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
   Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:17 AM
   Subject: Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?
  
  
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This
  won't work if
the client has cl_restrict_client_commands on.  I believe the
default setting is to restrict commands only on Valve games, but
clients can change it, and will very likely do so, especially on
servers where admins are abusing cexec commands through admin
plugins.
   
I wouldn't use ClientCommand for anything that's essential to
gameplay, like clearing decals.
   
   
   
On 1/23/07, Minh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
great, thanks, that worked like a charm!
   
- Original Message -
From: Teddy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] removing decals at round start?
   
   
 engine-ClientCommand( r_cleardecals\n );

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders




--
-omega
--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



[hlcoders] Falling spectators

2007-01-25 Thread Niclas
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Every time I am spectator in my mod, I start falling.
Flying around as a spectator for about a minute then I simply start to fall,
like someone cut of my wings :P, but since Im a spectator I fall through
the floor and never stops falling.

Anyone know how to fix this or know what might casue it?


Niclas
--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] Falling spectators

2007-01-25 Thread Richard

Weird, just trying to figure out this one myself.

I've been stepping through just about every function called in
gamemovement.cpp such as FullObserverMove and FullNoClipMove, but no
where have I seen the velocity vector being changed from 0.

If I join a team (team based mod) and go back to spectators, this no
longer happens, and I can fly around for as long as I want to. It only
seems to happen when I go into spectator mode without having spawned as
a player first, so I was wondering if that might have some bearing on
the matter?

Again I've looked for something that happens when the player spawns that
might explain this, but haven't been able to find anything.

Any help appreciated!

R.

Niclas wrote:

--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
Every time I am spectator in my mod, I start falling.
Flying around as a spectator for about a minute then I simply start to fall,
like someone cut of my wings :P, but since Im a spectator I fall through
the floor and never stops falling.

Anyone know how to fix this or know what might casue it?


Niclas
--

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders





___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



RE: [hlcoders] Falling spectators

2007-01-25 Thread Ben Everett
It sounds like you have something going funky in your player code's
InitialSpawn.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard
Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 6:07 PM
To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Falling spectators

Weird, just trying to figure out this one myself.

I've been stepping through just about every function called in
gamemovement.cpp such as FullObserverMove and FullNoClipMove, but no
where have I seen the velocity vector being changed from 0.

If I join a team (team based mod) and go back to spectators, this no
longer happens, and I can fly around for as long as I want to. It only
seems to happen when I go into spectator mode without having spawned as
a player first, so I was wondering if that might have some bearing on
the matter?

Again I've looked for something that happens when the player spawns that
might explain this, but haven't been able to find anything.

Any help appreciated!

R.

Niclas wrote:
 --
 [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
 Every time I am spectator in my mod, I start falling.
 Flying around as a spectator for about a minute then I simply start to
fall,
 like someone cut of my wings :P, but since Im a spectator I fall through
 the floor and never stops falling.

 Anyone know how to fix this or know what might casue it?


 Niclas
 --

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders




___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


__ NOD32 2008 (20070125) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



Re: [hlcoders] PostRenderVGui unstable?

2007-01-25 Thread bloodykenny
Since no one ever responded, I filed this zilla for tracking...

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=108

At 2007/01/15 01:06 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I noticed that when using PostRenderVGui, the 2D items I rendered would be 
offset vertically down whenever the Centerprint VGUI panel activated.  I 
eventually tracked down this as a fix.  I haven't filed a zilla on it though 
because I'm wondering if maybe I'm using it inappropriately?

--- ./mod/src/cl_dll/view_scene.cpp 10 Dec 2006 02:28:39 -  1.5
+++ ./mod/src/cl_dll/view_scene.cpp 15 Jan 2007 07:05:03 -
@@ -3485,6 +3485,8 @@
// The crosshair, etc. needs to get at the current setup stuff
AllowCurrentViewAccess( true );

+   g_pClientMode-PostRenderVGui();
+
// Draw the in-game stuff based on the actual viewport being 
 used
render-VGui_Paint( PAINT_INGAMEPANELS );

@@ -3492,7 +3494,6 @@

VGui_PostRender();

-   g_pClientMode-PostRenderVGui();
materials-Flush();
}

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders