Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
It's definitely more appealing if it's part of the mod and transparent to the user unless there is an update. Paul On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Sykes wrote: > Well the user experience would have to be seamless.. > > thus I would imagine it would be something bolted into your mod DLL > somewhere!? > > As I had stated in my original (badly written) email, an extra > application to "update" is OK for beta testers, however not really an > acceptable user experience for the player base. > > the real key would be, how to have the game restart itself on a fresh > set of DLLs once downloaded. > > "unreal tournament" handled this really nicely + was available to the > modder :D -> steam do have a mechanism, except its a walled garden :/ > > + damn you Jonas!, you got me grammar and spell checking EVERY email now! > ;o) > > S. > > 2009/6/1 Paul Peloski : > > Nothing wrong with compressed files hosted on a website or torrent. I > don't > > want another piece of software just to keep one (or even a few) mods up > to > > date. If you give people the option I'm sure most will not want to > install > > another "mod toaster". You're just making work for yourself trying to > find > > or develop a solution to a problem that people don't have. > > > > No offense, I've thought about this issue myself and even contributed > code > > to some early "mod distribution platforms". My experience has been that > it > > was a waste of time. > > > > Paul > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Sykes wrote: > > > >> So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your > >> mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or > >> game publisher. > >> > >> however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any > >> solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) > >> OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! > >> > >> We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they > >> run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. > >> however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. > >> > >> so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip > >> files/website download links is s 90's :o) > >> regards > >> s. > >> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
Sounds good Jonas :D me likes! (bad english intended) s 2009/6/1 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen : > I don't want to make it go too public yet, but since people are interested > in how it should be done and such, I'll just tell my solution. For a sample > mod it would go something like this: > > People download an installer for the mod. This installer connects to the > content server network and sees which files already exists and which files > needs to be downloaded. It then downloads the required content for the mod > into SourceMods. > > I have successfully developed a method to load a MaxsiDistribution.dll into > memory when the client.dll is intialized. It connects to the Content Servers > and recieves a list of all files in the project and their SHA-1 hashes. It > then loads a table with all the files in the project and their SHA-1 hashes > and compares them. If the tables do not agree, the mod automatically quits > by letting the Client.dll initialization function return false, and starts > the installer for the mod, which will update the mod. Once the installer is > done, it will automatically relaunch the mod seemlessly. > > The power in this system is that the server-side table of files can easily > be updated, and any changes will be detected by the clients and updated > automatically. > > If the client cannot for some reason connect to the content servers, the mod > will launch regardless, it will only update if it's possible to update. This > system only requires the user to install a mod, and all updating tools will > be shipped with it (and is updated by the updating systems as well). It's > designed to be as userfriendly and reliable as possible. The system also > tracks the number of people who have installed the mod and other useful > statistics. > > > But please note this is currently in beta. I need to do a lot of more work > to get the developer tools done and documented. I am currently busy with my > final exams and other personal stuff, as well as my mod, but I'll have some > time over the summer to get more work done. I will not distribute any more > mods using it right now, but I'll make an annoucement here when it's done. > Although my main concern is bandwidth, I got my own server but I doubt it > can handle a mass release of a hyped mod, so I am implementing a > torrenting-alike system to it and a .php based server system that people can > install on their servers so they can help hosting. > > Paul, I have designed these systems so that people are only required to > install the mod. No process will be running in the background of the > computer when the mod is not running. I know it's a waste of time if it > doesn't get developed, but I am the kind of guy who looks at SteamWorks and > thinks "Hey, I can do this myself" and does. And almost have. > > Olly, yeah there was something called Vapour, but I never looked into it. > But as I understood, it was an external application and not something like > my system that's esssentially part of the mod. > > Again, thanks for your interest in the systems, but they are not ready yet, > I need to get the last tools and the new version of the installer with > torrenting fully working first. > > - Original Message - > From: "Mark Chandler" > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:11 PM > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients > > >> Got a link with more info? >> >> >> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: >>> Despite your awful English and bad formatting and poorly asked question, >>> I >>> am already working on a technology to keep mods automatically updated >>> using >>> a content server network and torrenting for additional bandwidth. It's >>> already in its beta stages and is used for my own mod's demos, but I'll >>> go >>> public in a matter of months, and then this should be a problem of the >>> past. >>> >>> Sortie. >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "Sykes" >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:28 PM >>> Subject: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients >>> >>> >>> >>>> So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your >>>> mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or >>>> game publisher. >>>> >>>> however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any >>>&
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
I don't want to make it go too public yet, but since people are interested in how it should be done and such, I'll just tell my solution. For a sample mod it would go something like this: People download an installer for the mod. This installer connects to the content server network and sees which files already exists and which files needs to be downloaded. It then downloads the required content for the mod into SourceMods. I have successfully developed a method to load a MaxsiDistribution.dll into memory when the client.dll is intialized. It connects to the Content Servers and recieves a list of all files in the project and their SHA-1 hashes. It then loads a table with all the files in the project and their SHA-1 hashes and compares them. If the tables do not agree, the mod automatically quits by letting the Client.dll initialization function return false, and starts the installer for the mod, which will update the mod. Once the installer is done, it will automatically relaunch the mod seemlessly. The power in this system is that the server-side table of files can easily be updated, and any changes will be detected by the clients and updated automatically. If the client cannot for some reason connect to the content servers, the mod will launch regardless, it will only update if it's possible to update. This system only requires the user to install a mod, and all updating tools will be shipped with it (and is updated by the updating systems as well). It's designed to be as userfriendly and reliable as possible. The system also tracks the number of people who have installed the mod and other useful statistics. But please note this is currently in beta. I need to do a lot of more work to get the developer tools done and documented. I am currently busy with my final exams and other personal stuff, as well as my mod, but I'll have some time over the summer to get more work done. I will not distribute any more mods using it right now, but I'll make an annoucement here when it's done. Although my main concern is bandwidth, I got my own server but I doubt it can handle a mass release of a hyped mod, so I am implementing a torrenting-alike system to it and a .php based server system that people can install on their servers so they can help hosting. Paul, I have designed these systems so that people are only required to install the mod. No process will be running in the background of the computer when the mod is not running. I know it's a waste of time if it doesn't get developed, but I am the kind of guy who looks at SteamWorks and thinks "Hey, I can do this myself" and does. And almost have. Olly, yeah there was something called Vapour, but I never looked into it. But as I understood, it was an external application and not something like my system that's esssentially part of the mod. Again, thanks for your interest in the systems, but they are not ready yet, I need to get the last tools and the new version of the installer with torrenting fully working first. - Original Message - From: "Mark Chandler" To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients > Got a link with more info? > > > Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: >> Despite your awful English and bad formatting and poorly asked question, >> I >> am already working on a technology to keep mods automatically updated >> using >> a content server network and torrenting for additional bandwidth. It's >> already in its beta stages and is used for my own mod's demos, but I'll >> go >> public in a matter of months, and then this should be a problem of the >> past. >> >> Sortie. >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Sykes" >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" >> >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:28 PM >> Subject: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients >> >> >> >>> So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your >>> mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or >>> game publisher. >>> >>> however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any >>> solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) >>> OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! >>> >>> We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they >>> run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. >>> however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. >>> >>> so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
Wasnt there a steam-like thing called Vapour that did stuff like this? 2009/6/1 Sykes > Well the user experience would have to be seamless.. > > thus I would imagine it would be something bolted into your mod DLL > somewhere!? > > As I had stated in my original (badly written) email, an extra > application to "update" is OK for beta testers, however not really an > acceptable user experience for the player base. > > the real key would be, how to have the game restart itself on a fresh > set of DLLs once downloaded. > > "unreal tournament" handled this really nicely + was available to the > modder :D -> steam do have a mechanism, except its a walled garden :/ > > + damn you Jonas!, you got me grammar and spell checking EVERY email now! > ;o) > > S. > > 2009/6/1 Paul Peloski : > > Nothing wrong with compressed files hosted on a website or torrent. I > don't > > want another piece of software just to keep one (or even a few) mods up > to > > date. If you give people the option I'm sure most will not want to > install > > another "mod toaster". You're just making work for yourself trying to > find > > or develop a solution to a problem that people don't have. > > > > No offense, I've thought about this issue myself and even contributed > code > > to some early "mod distribution platforms". My experience has been that > it > > was a waste of time. > > > > Paul > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Sykes wrote: > > > >> So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your > >> mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or > >> game publisher. > >> > >> however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any > >> solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) > >> OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! > >> > >> We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they > >> run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. > >> however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. > >> > >> so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip > >> files/website download links is s 90's :o) > >> regards > >> s. > >> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- Sent from Olly's SEGA Game Gear ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
Well the user experience would have to be seamless.. thus I would imagine it would be something bolted into your mod DLL somewhere!? As I had stated in my original (badly written) email, an extra application to "update" is OK for beta testers, however not really an acceptable user experience for the player base. the real key would be, how to have the game restart itself on a fresh set of DLLs once downloaded. "unreal tournament" handled this really nicely + was available to the modder :D -> steam do have a mechanism, except its a walled garden :/ + damn you Jonas!, you got me grammar and spell checking EVERY email now! ;o) S. 2009/6/1 Paul Peloski : > Nothing wrong with compressed files hosted on a website or torrent. I don't > want another piece of software just to keep one (or even a few) mods up to > date. If you give people the option I'm sure most will not want to install > another "mod toaster". You're just making work for yourself trying to find > or develop a solution to a problem that people don't have. > > No offense, I've thought about this issue myself and even contributed code > to some early "mod distribution platforms". My experience has been that it > was a waste of time. > > Paul > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Sykes wrote: > >> So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your >> mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or >> game publisher. >> >> however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any >> solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) >> OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! >> >> We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they >> run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. >> however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. >> >> so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip >> files/website download links is s 90's :o) >> regards >> s. >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
People would care if you integrate it right in the mod I guess. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Paul Peloski wrote: > Nothing wrong with compressed files hosted on a website or torrent. I don't > want another piece of software just to keep one (or even a few) mods up to > date. If you give people the option I'm sure most will not want to install > another "mod toaster". You're just making work for yourself trying to find > or develop a solution to a problem that people don't have. > > No offense, I've thought about this issue myself and even contributed code > to some early "mod distribution platforms". My experience has been that it > was a waste of time. > > Paul > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Sykes wrote: > > > So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your > > mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or > > game publisher. > > > > however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any > > solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) > > OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! > > > > We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they > > run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. > > however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. > > > > so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip > > files/website download links is s 90's :o) > > regards > > s. > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
Nothing wrong with compressed files hosted on a website or torrent. I don't want another piece of software just to keep one (or even a few) mods up to date. If you give people the option I'm sure most will not want to install another "mod toaster". You're just making work for yourself trying to find or develop a solution to a problem that people don't have. No offense, I've thought about this issue myself and even contributed code to some early "mod distribution platforms". My experience has been that it was a waste of time. Paul On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Sykes wrote: > So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your > mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or > game publisher. > > however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any > solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) > OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! > > We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they > run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. > however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. > > so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip > files/website download links is s 90's :o) > regards > s. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
my English is crap at the best of times ;o) too much "net speak" huh! + on re-read there is clearly poor use of 's "the mod's DLLs" would have been grammatically correct. anyway thank you for deciphering my gibberish... I would be interested to see your solution when it's ready - or if you'd like another MOD to try/test this on we're in release state and in need of patch delivery mechanism! :D regards s. 2009/6/1 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen : > Despite your awful English and bad formatting and poorly asked question, I > am already working on a technology to keep mods automatically updated using > a content server network and torrenting for additional bandwidth. It's > already in its beta stages and is used for my own mod's demos, but I'll go > public in a matter of months, and then this should be a problem of the past. > > Sortie. > > - Original Message - > From: "Sykes" > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:28 PM > Subject: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients > > >> So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your >> mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or >> game publisher. >> >> however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any >> solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) >> OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! >> >> We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they >> run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. >> however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. >> >> so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip >> files/website download links is s 90's :o) >> regards >> s. >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
Jonas that sounds really interesting :D Is it a DLL that can be loaded by the mod or is it a completely seperate application? 2009/6/1 Mark Chandler > Got a link with more info? > > > Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: > > Despite your awful English and bad formatting and poorly asked question, > I > > am already working on a technology to keep mods automatically updated > using > > a content server network and torrenting for additional bandwidth. It's > > already in its beta stages and is used for my own mod's demos, but I'll > go > > public in a matter of months, and then this should be a problem of the > past. > > > > Sortie. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Sykes" > > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:28 PM > > Subject: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients > > > > > > > >> So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your > >> mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or > >> game publisher. > >> > >> however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any > >> solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) > >> OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! > >> > >> We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they > >> run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. > >> however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. > >> > >> so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip > >> files/website download links is s 90's :o) > >> regards > >> s. > >> > >> ___ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- Thanks, - Saul. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
Got a link with more info? Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: > Despite your awful English and bad formatting and poorly asked question, I > am already working on a technology to keep mods automatically updated using > a content server network and torrenting for additional bandwidth. It's > already in its beta stages and is used for my own mod's demos, but I'll go > public in a matter of months, and then this should be a problem of the past. > > Sortie. > > - Original Message - > From: "Sykes" > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:28 PM > Subject: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients > > > >> So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your >> mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or >> game publisher. >> >> however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any >> solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) >> OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! >> >> We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they >> run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. >> however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. >> >> so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip >> files/website download links is s 90's :o) >> regards >> s. >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients
Despite your awful English and bad formatting and poorly asked question, I am already working on a technology to keep mods automatically updated using a content server network and torrenting for additional bandwidth. It's already in its beta stages and is used for my own mod's demos, but I'll go public in a matter of months, and then this should be a problem of the past. Sortie. - Original Message - From: "Sykes" To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: [hlcoders] Dll updates : ways to update your clients > So I know steam-works is the official solution to distributing your > mod DLL's/content. This seems great if you are a major MOD or > game publisher. > > however for the small outfit MOD maker.. has anyone come up any > solutions for keeping your mod player's dlls uptodate (hotfixes etc..) > OR have i missed something and we can get hooked up to steamworks?! > > We use SVN for the betatesters + a small SVN enabled app which they > run before starting the game to sync them up to our BETATEST build.. > however this isnt the experience we want for normal players.. > > so any suggestions welcome : cuz quit frankly releasing zip > files/website download links is s 90's :o) > regards > s. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
