Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update
wow this update also had a VAC2 update in it :) I frequent the cheat forums to see how out of hand cheating is getting and now people can't even LOAD their cheats without CS:S crashing...GJ valve, actually updating your software Zack On 8/4/05, Manuel Mausz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ok problem was found. there was a corrupt engine_amd.so. > sorry for that. > > manuel > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Manuel > > Mausz > > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:45 AM > > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update > > > > > > i have problems starting hldss_amd executable after this update. it just > > quits without message. > > > > # LD_LIBRARY_PATH="bin" ./srcds_amd -game cstrike -port 27015 +map de_dust > > # > > > > hlds_i486 and hlds_i686 works fine. plz verify if your update hase broken > > something amd related. > > > > thanks in advance. > > manuel > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred > > > Reynolds > > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:37 PM > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com; > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update > > > > > > > > > We have released an update to Counter-Strike: Source and the Source > > > engine. To get this update run the hldsupdatetool. > > > > > > This update fixes some bugs in the network subsystem and fixes a couple > > > Counter-Strike: Source game exploits. For full details go here: > > > http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news&id=430 > > > > > > > > > > > > - Alfred > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- -- Zack Sloane http://zteknology.com We Put Personal Back in Personal Computer! You Dream it, We Build It! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use both cpus
I completely agree. Due to the nature of the hlds and srcds platforms, you are unlikely to see many benefits with HT technology. Process management is always going to be a big task for a box like that, and the only real path to recovery is a bigger cache, faster bus and more ram. HT is much more useful on the client where one of the virtual processors can be allocated to deal with driver level functionality and the other to deal with the steam and hl2 processes. The advantage of locking one or another to any particular virtual processor is minimal and you run the risk of process starvation when you play with process management (although that would still be hard to achieve). Trust in your kernels process and processor management - if you're concerned about comments in your kernel code like "//should this go here?" then I'd recommend a new OS. On the other hand if you're happy with that, then feel free to continue. On 8/4/05, Stan Bubrouski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not to mention that people have all kinds of HZ settings, plugins, > etc... that have all kinds of affects on the system, utilization and > how those stats are reported. In linux it can be especially hard to > compare systems unless they are running similarly configured kernels > with the same VERSION_MINOR at least... > > -sb > > On 8/4/05, Ian mu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Personally I find running multiple servers of anything runs better on > > HT than none HT, sometimes if running only one process that really > > uses the cpu you may be better off with none HT. You get a lot of > > bogus info from people who don't understand how HT and cpu usage is > > shown, so personally I'd say read up on it, and do testing yourself > > with your own benchmarks (looking at things like server fps etc rather > > than cpu usage) and go with what feels best on your own setup. > > > > On 8/4/05, Sebastian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > there is no hard-proof disabling HT is any better than using it.. pure > > > speculation. > > > what might seem to run better for one might not for another. > > > > > > Scott Tuttle wrote: > > > > > > >I thought it was recommended you disable HT if you were maining running > > > >hl > > > >servers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>-Original Message- > > > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- > > > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Donnon > > > >>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:10 AM > > > >>To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > > > >>Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use > > > >>both cpus > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >im runnig a p4 3.2 ht in top i see 2 cpu's only one is > > > >doing the work ! so how can i force it to use cpu 1 and 0 > > > > > > > > > > > HT doens NOT equal two CPU's. Think of it more as CPU > > > resources A and B. HLDS likes lots of A and bugger all of > > > B, so forcing it to use B is probably a poor idea. > > > > > > > > > >>>Its not up to hlds... Its how the OS, or rather the SMP code in the > > > >>>kernel, is managing to use the two virtual cpu's. Apperently there is > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>some > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>tools in some distributions where you can set a process to a certain > > > >>>virtual cpu. And sometimes its not that specify a cpu for a process. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>Dunno > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>which dists that have those tools. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>and on a proper SMP machine doing this might have some small benefit. > > > >>HT is not SMP, he does NOT have two CPU's and he cannot run twice as > > > >>many > > > >>HLDS processes. > > > >>HT is a good way of offloading other system processes, and confusing > > > >>newbs > > > >>into thinking their box is only at half the utilization it actually is. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>___ > > > >>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > >>please visit: > > > >>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >___ > > > >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > >please visit: > > > >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005 > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > >
RE: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update
ok problem was found. there was a corrupt engine_amd.so. sorry for that. manuel > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Manuel > Mausz > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:45 AM > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update > > > i have problems starting hldss_amd executable after this update. it just > quits without message. > > # LD_LIBRARY_PATH="bin" ./srcds_amd -game cstrike -port 27015 +map de_dust > # > > hlds_i486 and hlds_i686 works fine. plz verify if your update hase broken > something amd related. > > thanks in advance. > manuel > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred > > Reynolds > > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:37 PM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update > > > > > > We have released an update to Counter-Strike: Source and the Source > > engine. To get this update run the hldsupdatetool. > > > > This update fixes some bugs in the network subsystem and fixes a couple > > Counter-Strike: Source game exploits. For full details go here: > > http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news&id=430 > > > > > > > > - Alfred > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update
i have problems starting hldss_amd executable after this update. it just quits without message. # LD_LIBRARY_PATH="bin" ./srcds_amd -game cstrike -port 27015 +map de_dust # hlds_i486 and hlds_i686 works fine. plz verify if your update hase broken something amd related. thanks in advance. manuel > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred > Reynolds > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:37 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update > > > We have released an update to Counter-Strike: Source and the Source > engine. To get this update run the hldsupdatetool. > > This update fixes some bugs in the network subsystem and fixes a couple > Counter-Strike: Source game exploits. For full details go here: > http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news&id=430 > > > > - Alfred > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] memory leak
Has there been a fix for memory leak problem in source, or is it a fake problem , I looked at all posts I could find with no conclusive results. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update
kudos to you and your team, the netcode for CS:S is alot more intuitive now, in fact I now only need to recommend setting updaterate and cmdrate settings. Thank guys. On 8/4/05, Alfred Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We have released an update to Counter-Strike: Source and the Source > engine. To get this update run the hldsupdatetool. > > This update fixes some bugs in the network subsystem and fixes a couple > Counter-Strike: Source game exploits. For full details go here: > http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news&id=430 > > > > - Alfred > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update
-- Alfred Reynolds - Thu, Aug 04 2005 11:37:27 -0700: > We have released an update to Counter-Strike: Source and the Source > engine. To get this update run the hldsupdatetool. > > This update fixes some bugs in the network subsystem and fixes a couple > Counter-Strike: Source game exploits. For full details go here: > http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news&id=430 Nice. Seems like the SourceTV flaws I once mentioned were also fixed, although this can't be found in the changelog. Regards Christoph -- Content-Description: Digital signature [ signature.asc of type application/pgp-signature deleted ] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update
We have released an update to Counter-Strike: Source and the Source engine. To get this update run the hldsupdatetool. This update fixes some bugs in the network subsystem and fixes a couple Counter-Strike: Source game exploits. For full details go here: http://www.steampowered.com/index.php?area=news&id=430 - Alfred ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use both cpus
Not to mention that people have all kinds of HZ settings, plugins, etc... that have all kinds of affects on the system, utilization and how those stats are reported. In linux it can be especially hard to compare systems unless they are running similarly configured kernels with the same VERSION_MINOR at least... -sb On 8/4/05, Ian mu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Personally I find running multiple servers of anything runs better on > HT than none HT, sometimes if running only one process that really > uses the cpu you may be better off with none HT. You get a lot of > bogus info from people who don't understand how HT and cpu usage is > shown, so personally I'd say read up on it, and do testing yourself > with your own benchmarks (looking at things like server fps etc rather > than cpu usage) and go with what feels best on your own setup. > > On 8/4/05, Sebastian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > there is no hard-proof disabling HT is any better than using it.. pure > > speculation. > > what might seem to run better for one might not for another. > > > > Scott Tuttle wrote: > > > > >I thought it was recommended you disable HT if you were maining running hl > > >servers? > > > > > > > > > > > >>-Original Message- > > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- > > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Donnon > > >>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:10 AM > > >>To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > > >>Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use > > >>both cpus > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >im runnig a p4 3.2 ht in top i see 2 cpu's only one is > > >doing the work ! so how can i force it to use cpu 1 and 0 > > > > > > > > HT doens NOT equal two CPU's. Think of it more as CPU > > resources A and B. HLDS likes lots of A and bugger all of > > B, so forcing it to use B is probably a poor idea. > > > > > > >>>Its not up to hlds... Its how the OS, or rather the SMP code in the > > >>>kernel, is managing to use the two virtual cpu's. Apperently there is > > >>> > > >>> > > >>some > > >> > > >> > > >>>tools in some distributions where you can set a process to a certain > > >>>virtual cpu. And sometimes its not that specify a cpu for a process. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>Dunno > > >> > > >> > > >>>which dists that have those tools. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>and on a proper SMP machine doing this might have some small benefit. > > >>HT is not SMP, he does NOT have two CPU's and he cannot run twice as many > > >>HLDS processes. > > >>HT is a good way of offloading other system processes, and confusing newbs > > >>into thinking their box is only at half the utilization it actually is. > > >> > > >> > > >>___ > > >>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >>please visit: > > >>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >___ > > >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >please visit: > > >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005 > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use both cpus
Personally I find running multiple servers of anything runs better on HT than none HT, sometimes if running only one process that really uses the cpu you may be better off with none HT. You get a lot of bogus info from people who don't understand how HT and cpu usage is shown, so personally I'd say read up on it, and do testing yourself with your own benchmarks (looking at things like server fps etc rather than cpu usage) and go with what feels best on your own setup. On 8/4/05, Sebastian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > there is no hard-proof disabling HT is any better than using it.. pure > speculation. > what might seem to run better for one might not for another. > > Scott Tuttle wrote: > > >I thought it was recommended you disable HT if you were maining running hl > >servers? > > > > > > > >>-Original Message- > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Donnon > >>Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:10 AM > >>To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > >>Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use > >>both cpus > >> > >> > >> > >im runnig a p4 3.2 ht in top i see 2 cpu's only one is > >doing the work ! so how can i force it to use cpu 1 and 0 > > > > > HT doens NOT equal two CPU's. Think of it more as CPU > resources A and B. HLDS likes lots of A and bugger all of > B, so forcing it to use B is probably a poor idea. > > > >>>Its not up to hlds... Its how the OS, or rather the SMP code in the > >>>kernel, is managing to use the two virtual cpu's. Apperently there is > >>> > >>> > >>some > >> > >> > >>>tools in some distributions where you can set a process to a certain > >>>virtual cpu. And sometimes its not that specify a cpu for a process. > >>> > >>> > >>Dunno > >> > >> > >>>which dists that have those tools. > >>> > >>> > >>and on a proper SMP machine doing this might have some small benefit. > >>HT is not SMP, he does NOT have two CPU's and he cannot run twice as many > >>HLDS processes. > >>HT is a good way of offloading other system processes, and confusing newbs > >>into thinking their box is only at half the utilization it actually is. > >> > >> > >>___ > >>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>please visit: > >>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > >> > > > > > >___ > >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >please visit: > >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005 > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use both cpus
there is no hard-proof disabling HT is any better than using it.. pure speculation. what might seem to run better for one might not for another. Scott Tuttle wrote: I thought it was recommended you disable HT if you were maining running hl servers? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Donnon Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:10 AM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use both cpus im runnig a p4 3.2 ht in top i see 2 cpu's only one is doing the work ! so how can i force it to use cpu 1 and 0 HT doens NOT equal two CPU's. Think of it more as CPU resources A and B. HLDS likes lots of A and bugger all of B, so forcing it to use B is probably a poor idea. Its not up to hlds... Its how the OS, or rather the SMP code in the kernel, is managing to use the two virtual cpu's. Apperently there is some tools in some distributions where you can set a process to a certain virtual cpu. And sometimes its not that specify a cpu for a process. Dunno which dists that have those tools. and on a proper SMP machine doing this might have some small benefit. HT is not SMP, he does NOT have two CPU's and he cannot run twice as many HLDS processes. HT is a good way of offloading other system processes, and confusing newbs into thinking their box is only at half the utilization it actually is. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use both cpus
I thought it was recommended you disable HT if you were maining running hl servers? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Donnon > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:10 AM > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use > both cpus > > >> > im runnig a p4 3.2 ht in top i see 2 cpu's only one is > >> > doing the work ! so how can i force it to use cpu 1 and 0 > >> > >> HT doens NOT equal two CPU's. Think of it more as CPU > >> resources A and B. HLDS likes lots of A and bugger all of > >> B, so forcing it to use B is probably a poor idea. > > > > Its not up to hlds... Its how the OS, or rather the SMP code in the > > kernel, is managing to use the two virtual cpu's. Apperently there is > some > > tools in some distributions where you can set a process to a certain > > virtual cpu. And sometimes its not that specify a cpu for a process. > Dunno > > which dists that have those tools. > > and on a proper SMP machine doing this might have some small benefit. > HT is not SMP, he does NOT have two CPU's and he cannot run twice as many > HLDS processes. > HT is a good way of offloading other system processes, and confusing newbs > into thinking their box is only at half the utilization it actually is. > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use both cpus
> im runnig a p4 3.2 ht in top i see 2 cpu's only one is > doing the work ! so how can i force it to use cpu 1 and 0 HT doens NOT equal two CPU's. Think of it more as CPU resources A and B. HLDS likes lots of A and bugger all of B, so forcing it to use B is probably a poor idea. Its not up to hlds... Its how the OS, or rather the SMP code in the kernel, is managing to use the two virtual cpu's. Apperently there is some tools in some distributions where you can set a process to a certain virtual cpu. And sometimes its not that specify a cpu for a process. Dunno which dists that have those tools. and on a proper SMP machine doing this might have some small benefit. HT is not SMP, he does NOT have two CPU's and he cannot run twice as many HLDS processes. HT is a good way of offloading other system processes, and confusing newbs into thinking their box is only at half the utilization it actually is. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] help how do i get the servers in linux to use both cpus
On Thu, 4 Aug 2005, Matt Donnon wrote: > > im runnig a p4 3.2 ht in top i see 2 cpu's only one is > > doing the work ! so how can i force it to use cpu 1 and 0 > > HT doens NOT equal two CPU's. Think of it more as CPU > resources A and B. HLDS likes lots of A and bugger all of > B, so forcing it to use B is probably a poor idea. Its not up to hlds... Its how the OS, or rather the SMP code in the kernel, is managing to use the two virtual cpu's. Apperently there is some tools in some distributions where you can set a process to a certain virtual cpu. And sometimes its not that specify a cpu for a process. Dunno which dists that have those tools. /Bjorn -- I have no thoughts. None whatsoever. They don't pay me to think. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
