Re: [hlds_linux] Valve Source Engine Console Message Format String Vulnerability
On Linux there are binary portability problems linking to libstdc++ either statically or dynamically. It's off-topic to this thread, but: - dlopen() on a shared library that links to libstdc++ can fail if the host app or system uses an older version of libc (because of PT_TLS references) and does not link to libstdc++ (HLDS, for example). - sharing libstdc++ structures across libraries can get you into ABI trouble! we have caused some accidental crashes in Valve code. it statically embeds some version of libstdc++ from a distro's gcc-3.4. For more information I invite you to read: http://www.trilithium.com/johan/2005/06/static-libstdc/ http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~psilord/blog/3.html So there are gotchas but they are more salient to us plugin writers than Valve itself, or people that get to distribute host apps. Regards, -- David Anderson http://www.bailopan.net/ On 8/19/09 6:34 PM, Shane Turner wrote: > Saul, > > You're mistaken. The C++ portion of the code base at my current employer > is statically linked. We've been compiling the code that way for close > to a decade. The code itself uses STL, streams, makes heavy use of > templates, etc. We build on Debian and release on RedHat/CentOS and > Solaris (albeit rarely now). > > Shane Turner > > Saul Rennison wrote: >> If you knew anything about C++ you'd understand how unportable STL is >> across various Linux distributions, and how impossible it is to >> statically link it into the code. >> >> Thanks, >> - Saul. >> >> On 18 Aug 2009, at 21:03, Stefan Popp wrote: >> >>> Thats not right ;) >>> >>> The programming language is the problem in this case. Why should i write >>> my code with functions that shouldnt be used with C++? >>> C++ works with the stdlib, which means streams. Not C stuff. So its >>> finally up to Valve to write programs which follows C++ standards not C. >>> You cant trust your users as programmer. Its up to us, to make the >>> source safe, and if the projecttime needs 2 weeks more, you should spend >>> the time. >>> >>> >>> Ronny Schedel schrieb: >>>> The problem is not the programming language, the problem is that >>>> Valve trust >>>> their game clients too much. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Well, >>>>> >>>>> Valve should start coding c++ with steams ;) >>>>> Who works with printfs today? >>>>> >>>>> I hope Valve will fix the whole source to prevent overflows. >>>>> C++ is you friend, not old C stuff... >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Stefan Popp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Claudio Beretta schrieb: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, anyone knows if a workaround is available? >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW: aren't "security researchers" supposed to contact the developers >>>>>> before >>>>>> releasing 0-day exploits?This is the 2nd 0-day exploy from aluigi >>>>>> in a >>>>>> few >>>>>> weeks -.- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Morgan Humes >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> A friend forwarded me this info regarding a vulnerability. I am >>>>>>> unable >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> test this at the moment, but it does look like it is possible. >>>>>>> Thought >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> would get this out to the community before others start using >>>>>>> this to >>>>>>> cause >>>>>>> havoc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.vupen.com/english/advisories/2009/2296 >>>>>>> http://aluigi.altervista.org/adv/sourcefs-adv.txt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Morgan Humes > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] 1. Re: Linux Crashes - Team Fortress 2/Day of Defeat: Source Update Released (MoggieX)
Who is "we all?" I wasn't aware of any public beta that we could have tested. If there was such a thing, I will eat my hat with only two condiments. Regards, -- David Anderson http://www.bailopan.net/ On 8/14/09 12:04 AM, Richard Eid wrote: > We've all known about the TF2 beta for a couple of weeks now. And for the > past few days, we knew the update was imminent. Going forward, we knew that > there were going to be some pretty huge changes to the game. Small updates > break a lot of things, large updates break even more. > > Remember the Counter-Strike 1.6 beta that went on for a month or so, then > when it went live AMXModX, which also runs on many, many Counter-Strike > servers, broke? And with that update, the beta was 100% public(for a month) > and AMXModX *still* wasn't ready. > > With any update, we can expect a number of things to break, even the tools > that most would probably consider essential. This is a fact of life. I > hope some day we can all finally accept that. > > Also, > > https://bugs.alliedmods.net/show_bug.cgi?id=3948 > > -Richard Eid > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:07 PM, blissend wrote: > >> Did they hire someone's nephew whom is an ogrish of man so they're too >> afraid to fire... he just so happens to be responsible for >> testing/releases?... No offense. >> >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Bruce Potter wrote: >> >>> FYI, I just reran the updatetool (CentOS) and got a TON more content. >>> With SM disabled I was able to get my servers started with no core >>> dumps. >>> >>> bruce >>> >>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 8:24 PM, Keeper wrote: >>> >>>> Valve has always said they are not responsible for keeping us in the >>>> loop. >>>> We have nicely asked for an update so we can get some things >>>> reliably fixed >>>> :) >>>> >>>> Keeper >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: DontWannaName! [mailto:ad...@topnotchclan.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:55 PM >>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] 1. Re: Linux Crashes - Team Fortress 2/Day >>>> of >>>> Defeat: Source Update Released (MoggieX) >>>> >>>> They did test the update on servers, they just didnt test SM with it >>>> or warn >>>> the development team that there would need to be major changes. >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>> archives, please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >>> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] 1. Re: Linux Crashes - Team Fortress 2/Day of Defeat: Source Update Released (MoggieX)
Hi All, Well everyone knows my opinion on this. A public beta, or advanced (or even notice on release) of changes would be immensely helpful. Instead both users and developers get a bombshell. Awesome. We'll spin SourceMod releases on all branches as soon as we have a fix. Metamod should be fine. Regards, -- David Anderson http://www.bailopan.net/ On 8/13/09 4:44 PM, MoggieX wrote: > [RANT] > Actually, We're now aware why out 19 TF2 servers are down > Valve have you heard of the term "Testing" or even "QA" for that matter? wtf > are you ladies doing releasing an update that has blatantly not been tested > with server side addons such as Mani or Sourcemod, the stats clearly show > you should make consideration for the sheer amount of server OP's that use > these, let them know there is changes coming > which will render their functioning useless so they are able to adapt. > > Absolutely unbeleiveable. > > *Nuts the desk repeatedly* > > Matt > [/RANT] > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] New Discussion Forum
Hello! It's sad to see these mailing lists go down - I've been watching them for _years_ and the quality of posting has always been higher than typical internet forums. Some people in the community suggested that we at AlliedModders (which runs AMX Mod X, SourceMod, and Metamod:Source) try to fill some of the upcoming gaps. We've added HLDS/SRCDS sections to our existing forums, here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/forumdisplay.php?f=129 This is not to supplant the SteamPowered.com forums. Rather, we already get much misplaced traffic on these topics since many people who run servers also run our mods, so it is a natural organizational improvement. I realize the allure of these mailing lists was their better SnR ratio and the fact that Valve employees occasionally read. Unfortunately we can't duplicate the latter, but I hope this helps. Regards, -- David "BAILOPAN" Anderson AlliedModders LLC, aka Dave's Friendly Robot Company http://www.bailopan.net/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Half-Life 1 Dedicated server update
I didn't quite get that last bit. What happens "without Amxx?" Out of curiosity, could you paste the output of "amxx modules" and "amxx plugins" from your server console? ~dvander http://www.bailopan.net/ Vincent H. wrote: Alfred, I've asked the technical support where our server is hosting. All is configured correctly. It also says to me that there is perhaps a problem with Amxx or a module. With Amxx : pipes.cpp (484) : Assertion Failed: bRet pipes.cpp (536) : Assertion Failed: bRet steamclient.cpp (371) : Assertion Failed: pClientPipe->BWriteAndReadResult( buf, bufRet ) steamclient.cpp (373) : Assertion Failed: bufRet.TellPut() == ( sizeof(HSteamUser) + sizeof(uint ) without Amxx : ... - Amxx 1.76a/b = VAC crash = FATAL ERROR (shutting down): SeamGetEncryptionKeyToSendToNewClient: Returned NULL!" - Amxx 1.76 = No VAC crash. All is running fine. I've posted in Amxx forum and it says to me : "Once again, it can't be AMXX since it just plain can't do anything to/with VAC." So, what I am supposed to do ? Once again, our server worked fine before this hl1 engine update. So i don't understand what the trouble exactly. Thanks for you help Alfred. Alfred Reynolds a écrit : You need to run the server from the directory it is installed into, i.e the command line should be "./hlds_run -game X ...". You CANNOT run "/path/to/hlds_run -game X ...". - Alfred Vincent H. wrote: Alfred, Any ideas please ? :-) Vincent H. a écrit : Hello Alfred, So, for explain the situation since the start, this problem is appear from this update. We are at a hoster of game server. We have no acces to ssh or others. Since this update, when the server crash, the VAC does not restart, and the server crash indefinitely with this following error: "FATAL ERROR (shutting down): SteamGetEncryptionKeyToSendToNewClient: Returned NULL!". MetaMod 1.19p28 and AMX MOD X 1.76b are installed. Before this update, we had any problem. For restore all in running, we are obliged of: - Deactivate AMXX in plugins.ini file of metamod - Delete the .steam/ClientRegistry.blob - Shut down and restart the server => NB : VAC is also loaded without Amxx - Reactivate AMXX in plugins.ini file of metamod - Do a change map And after this the VAC and Amxx are loading fine. But we are obliged to do this manipulation many time per day. What let us must do Alfred ? This is the first time we have this problem. Thanks in advance. Vincent H. Alfred Reynolds a écrit : You need to start the server from the servers install dir. The command line starting the server MUST be "./hlds_run ", doing "/full/path/hlds_run" won't work. - Alfred Vincent H. wrote: Any ideas, please !? Vincent H. a écrit : Alfred Reynolds a écrit : We have released an update to the Half-Life 1 dedicated server (for all mods). Run the hldsupdatetool to get this update. This update fixes win32 server staying on the first CPU of a multi-core machine and fixes some timing problems with Steam3 login on Linux. - Alfred ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. Hi, We are a cs 1.6 server at a game hosting. Actually server is crashing every minutes with this error : "FATAL ERROR (shutting down): SteamGetEncryptionKeyToSendToNewClient: Returned NULL!" Server is running on linux. It's all that I know. What am I supposed to do now ? :-( Thanks. ps : i'm french, so sorry fo my bad english. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux --- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valves
Re: [hlds_linux] Half-Life 1 Dedicated server update
Show the exact error. Make sure logging is on and use 'meta retry <#>' to show the immediate error again. ~dvander http://www.bailopan.net/ Scott Pettit wrote: I'm running 1.19 (from metamod.org) and adminmod/amxmod have ceased to load on all of my 1.6 servers. I just get badf load and it complains about not being able to find the plugin dll I want to load, but it's _definitely_ there. Any other ideas? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source Beta released
Ah, it's good to have a beta for a change, thanks! Any approximate guess when this will go final? Also, any chance mp_dynamicpricing could be exported with A2S_RULES? ~dvander Alfred Reynolds wrote: We have released a special beta of Counter-Strike: Source for the new dynamic weapon pricing feature. If you want to try out this new functionality on your server then run the hldsupdatetool with "cstrike_beta" as the game parameter, for example: Win32: ./hldsupdatetool -command update -game cstrike_beta -dir . Linux: ./steam -command update -game cstrike_beta -dir . - Alfred ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Serious problems at Valve?
It most certainly is not. ---bail Bryan wrote: Are we sure this isn't a amx_mod, admin_mod problem? I have never ever given out my client info. Steam however said my account was used in 2 different locations and kicked me. It dropped most of the server. Upon trying to reenter the server it said my steamid was already on the server! I have seen this before when a steam/hlds change broke the admin programs. Crazy_One Cc2iscooL wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I certainly hope so. I host quite a few mods and 9/10 of them are giving out that error that the client doesn't own the game. Would you guys PLEASE fix VAC? On 10/1/06, Regime <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Can only guess you are referring to the "constant timeouts" thread? Just for clarity.. This is not the same problem. For about a week or so there have been a lot of client timeouts (I sought for the problem on our server, but I see I'm not the only one with the issue now) and since today there have been additional problems with the error mentioned in this thread, telling people that they 'do not own' the game. Sure Valve will give us a fix for both soon though. :) --- Regime Matt Albiniak wrote: How many HLDS listers does it take to screw in a light bulb? :) (there's another thread going regarding this exact same issue. use that one, the subject line is actually descriptive.) On 10/1/06, Adam Grzesko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Sunday, October 1, 2006, 11:45:00 PM, you wrote: RD> We're getting the same problem this end as well with our clients, Same problem here. regards, M. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Matt Albiniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released
Yes, sorry, I chopped off something somehow. Those pre-releases have generally been for engine things in regards to testing specific fixes. At least, as far as I can remember. ---bail http://www.bailopan.net/ Andrew Forsberg wrote: While we're all being pedantic -- I take it you're referring to Snakez' comments rather than mine, which I don't think are quite that roflcopter-ish? My point is that I'd be surprised if office and inter-office matches during the time leading up to a release were done solely via rcon commands. That sort of thing gets real old, real quick. I'm genuinely interested to know if Valve do use any source plugins internally. If so, which ones. Finally, if they're third party, then what's wrong with a quick note saying the plugin's going to be broken with the next release. I'm not saying they should play test third party plugins, that's just loony. I'm talking about a case where they are also using them occassionally and/or informally for their own office games. Anyway -- it's not fair to say they never pre-release binaries. They've been using the -beta swich for a few major releases over the last year or so. - Original Message - From: "David Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released oh what a great idea why didn't anyone ever think of that before!?!1one hint: I don't know of anyone that "hardcodes memory offsets." We use as dynamic methods as we can, but breakage is inevitable across large updates. There's two solutions to this problem. One is actually listening to server-side developers and the other is pre-releasing binaries to server-side developers. Given the track record of almost two years, I don't see anything changing. In the meantime, us developers try to help each other out during updates so we can all fix things within a week. It generally works out okay as long as you're patient and supportive of the people doing the work. ---bail http://www.bailopan.net/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Forsberg Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 6:38 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released That's all true. One thing does confuse me a bit -- when you guys at Valve are running internal game-play tests, do you only ever play with stock-standard css? If not, and if you know the update stops one of those mods from working, perhaps a "heads up" to the mods you also use would be a nice thing to do? Something along the lines of: "sorry guys, hope you're not busy this weekend..." would probably do. Apart from that, meh... change happens. The update itself is really very good. On Sat, 2006-08-26 at 15:27 -0400, Kevin H wrote: Oh well, deal with it. I did. And my servers are all running fine. Software updates almost always break something on third party mods. This has been happening since valve started. Alfred dealt with this with Adminmod. You whining is not going to change a thing. And if your running a business, explain to your clients that addons will be disabled to there is a fix. And if you run a gaming community and rent a server. You just have to wait for the mods to be updated. Not the end of the world.. Its just a game. Oh, and the servers still run without mods.. :-) On 8/26/06, Thiesson Johann wrote: The fact that every update broke the work of the HL community is a bad thing, and is not normal. I think there isn't anything to add to this. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released
Yup, Valve is very helpful to modders building a full client mod using the SDK. However, Valve rarely adds things us server-side developers need. The simplest explanation is that they want tight control over how their mods appear to their customer base. This also makes the SDK look more attractive to 3rd party developers, since they know their game can't be easily modified. Major plugin devs or not, there's an agenda higher than that. I'll leave the rest of the conspiracy theorying to you ;) ---bail http://www.bailopan.net/ Cc2iscooL wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] They were helping the developers of the major mods update to the new SDK, such as Dystopia and a few others. Why wouldn't they help the major plugin developers? Whether it be a mod or a plugin you still have to change things to make it work the way you want. Also, the only reason I was "nitpicking" your grammar was because I thought "us developers" sounded out of context. I didn't mean it to be offensive by any terms. Anyway, I know for a fact that Valve was helping out the modders, so why wouldn't they help the people doing the plugins? On 8/26/06, David Anderson < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There is no time to prepare for updates as the binaries are released publically and that's it. Did you even read what I said? Valve doesn't and can't help us with the stuff that we're doing (the stuff that breaks). Expecting them to would be ridiculous for a number of reasons. If they're already confining us to dirty hacks, why would they help us with our hacks? Also, why should they take time out of their most likely busy schedule to help us with the hacks that'll break anyway? The best solution is to just pre-release or beta-release the binaries to developers. Even if it were only 48 hours in advance it'd be a huge help and given the slow release cycle I don't think two days would hurt. I'd (probably) stop whining if they did only that, since I'm willing to sit here and hunt down binary changes for the night. Again it's not like none of this has been suggested before. ---bail http://www.bailopan.net/ PS - since you felt like irrelevantly nitpicking my grammar, I'll note that your period should have been inside the quotation marks. Cc2iscooL wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] You mean "we developers". Anyway, it's too bad that more developers, especially Mani, did not take advantage of the time they had to prepare for the update. I'm sure if they asked Valve they would have helped them port it over. On 8/26/06, David Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: oh what a great idea why didn't anyone ever think of that before!?!1one hint: I don't know of anyone that "hardcodes memory offsets." We use as dynamic methods as we can, but breakage is inevitable across large updates. There's two solutions to this problem. One is actually listening to server-side developers and the other is pre-releasing binaries to server-side developers. Given the track record of almost two years, I don't see anything changing. In the meantime, us developers try to help each other out during updates so we can all fix things within a week. It generally works out okay as long as you're patient and supportive of the people doing the work. ---bail http://www.bailopan.net/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Forsberg Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 6:38 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released That's all true. One thing does confuse me a bit -- when you guys at Valve are running internal game-play tests, do you only ever play with stock-standard css? If not, and if you know the update stops one of those mods from working, perhaps a "heads up" to the mods you also use would be a nice thing to do? Something along the lines of: "sorry guys, hope you're not busy this weekend..." would probably do. Apart from that, meh... change happens. The update itself is really very good. On Sat, 2006-08-26 at 15:27 -0400, Kevin H wrote: Oh well, deal with it. I did. And my servers are all running fine. Software updates almost always break something on third party mods. This has been happening since valve started. Alfred dealt with this with Adminmod. You whining is not going to change a thing. And if your running a business, explain to your clients that addons will be disabled to there is a fix. And if you run a gaming community and rent a server. You just have to wait for the mods to be updated. Not the end of the world.. Its just a game. Oh, and the servers still run without mods.. :-) On 8/26/06, Thiesson Johann w
Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released
There is no time to prepare for updates as the binaries are released publically and that's it. Did you even read what I said? Valve doesn't and can't help us with the stuff that we're doing (the stuff that breaks). Expecting them to would be ridiculous for a number of reasons. If they're already confining us to dirty hacks, why would they help us with our hacks? Also, why should they take time out of their most likely busy schedule to help us with the hacks that'll break anyway? The best solution is to just pre-release or beta-release the binaries to developers. Even if it were only 48 hours in advance it'd be a huge help and given the slow release cycle I don't think two days would hurt. I'd (probably) stop whining if they did only that, since I'm willing to sit here and hunt down binary changes for the night. Again it's not like none of this has been suggested before. ---bail http://www.bailopan.net/ PS - since you felt like irrelevantly nitpicking my grammar, I'll note that your period should have been inside the quotation marks. Cc2iscooL wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] You mean "we developers". Anyway, it's too bad that more developers, especially Mani, did not take advantage of the time they had to prepare for the update. I'm sure if they asked Valve they would have helped them port it over. On 8/26/06, David Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: oh what a great idea why didn't anyone ever think of that before!?!1one hint: I don't know of anyone that "hardcodes memory offsets." We use as dynamic methods as we can, but breakage is inevitable across large updates. There's two solutions to this problem. One is actually listening to server-side developers and the other is pre-releasing binaries to server-side developers. Given the track record of almost two years, I don't see anything changing. In the meantime, us developers try to help each other out during updates so we can all fix things within a week. It generally works out okay as long as you're patient and supportive of the people doing the work. ---bail http://www.bailopan.net/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Forsberg Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 6:38 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released That's all true. One thing does confuse me a bit -- when you guys at Valve are running internal game-play tests, do you only ever play with stock-standard css? If not, and if you know the update stops one of those mods from working, perhaps a "heads up" to the mods you also use would be a nice thing to do? Something along the lines of: "sorry guys, hope you're not busy this weekend..." would probably do. Apart from that, meh... change happens. The update itself is really very good. On Sat, 2006-08-26 at 15:27 -0400, Kevin H wrote: Oh well, deal with it. I did. And my servers are all running fine. Software updates almost always break something on third party mods. This has been happening since valve started. Alfred dealt with this with Adminmod. You whining is not going to change a thing. And if your running a business, explain to your clients that addons will be disabled to there is a fix. And if you run a gaming community and rent a server. You just have to wait for the mods to be updated. Not the end of the world.. Its just a game. Oh, and the servers still run without mods.. :-) On 8/26/06, Thiesson Johann wrote: The fact that every update broke the work of the HL community is a bad thing, and is not normal. I think there isn't anything to add to this. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released
oh what a great idea why didn't anyone ever think of that before!?!1one hint: I don't know of anyone that "hardcodes memory offsets." We use as dynamic methods as we can, but breakage is inevitable across large updates. There's two solutions to this problem. One is actually listening to server-side developers and the other is pre-releasing binaries to server-side developers. Given the track record of almost two years, I don't see anything changing. In the meantime, us developers try to help each other out during updates so we can all fix things within a week. It generally works out okay as long as you're patient and supportive of the people doing the work. ---bail http://www.bailopan.net/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Forsberg Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 6:38 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Counter-Strike: Source update released That's all true. One thing does confuse me a bit -- when you guys at Valve are running internal game-play tests, do you only ever play with stock-standard css? If not, and if you know the update stops one of those mods from working, perhaps a "heads up" to the mods you also use would be a nice thing to do? Something along the lines of: "sorry guys, hope you're not busy this weekend..." would probably do. Apart from that, meh... change happens. The update itself is really very good. On Sat, 2006-08-26 at 15:27 -0400, Kevin H wrote: Oh well, deal with it. I did. And my servers are all running fine. Software updates almost always break something on third party mods. This has been happening since valve started. Alfred dealt with this with Adminmod. You whining is not going to change a thing. And if your running a business, explain to your clients that addons will be disabled to there is a fix. And if you run a gaming community and rent a server. You just have to wait for the mods to be updated. Not the end of the world.. Its just a game. Oh, and the servers still run without mods.. :-) On 8/26/06, Thiesson Johann wrote: The fact that every update broke the work of the HL community is a bad thing, and is not normal. I think there isn't anything to add to this. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] 64 bit support
Right on the money. Even if there wasn't a performance increase, it's the fact that it was at one point supported, then mystifyingly abandoned with no explanation or sensible timetable (read: "when we're done" isn't sensible). ~dvander http://www.bailopan.net/ Joseph Laws - Hi-Definition Gaming wrote: Perhaps you forget all of the press releases from VALVe about how much of a performance increase there is with 64-bit. "These server operators are extremely sophisticated, and were some of the earliest adopters of Linux," said Gabe Newell, Valve managing director. "We expect them to be leading-edge adopters of the AMD64 platform. AMD's approach to 64-bit computing looked great on paper, and it's nice to see that with real processors and development tools that it fulfills that promise. Every PC developer should be looking to get their server code and development tools running in 64-bits right away." In a straight port of code highly optimized for x86-32, Counter-Strike dedicated server tests with both 32- and 64-bit versions revealed a 30% clock-for-clock gain, and is expected to show further performance gains in future upgrades. "Valve Counter-Strike servers with 64-bit computing can offer customers a better overall gaming experience, and AMD processors will enable this performance boost," said Barry Crume, director of server segment product marketing, Computational Products Group, AMD. "With 64-bit dedicated servers using AMD Opteron processors, Valve will offer online gamers increased reliability, improved stability and greater throughput." Thanks. Steven Hartland wrote: Given that game servers are not memory bound and I believe make little or no use of 64bit calculations the benefit of a 64bit build will be limited to the additional registers available when running native 64bit. Given this there is no real driving factor for full 64bit support and hence goes a long way to explain the delay. Steve Parker Lewis wrote: An answer from Valve to Knuts nicely formulated question would've been great. We are running eight gameservers on two boxes, both Opterons/64bit linux. Some months ago, we backuped our servers and downgraded to the 32bit edition of our linux distribution. Maybe it was just our lack of experience, but we got only the half of the gameservers up without lags / cpu overload / load average 5+, so that we decided to make a rollback to get all of our servers back online. For over seven months now (since we have our own boxes), we are waiting for the (full) 64bit support from Valve. If we had known about this situation, we had hired Pentium boxes. But after setting everything up and noticing the lack of VAC2, we had to investigate quite a while to find a forum post in the wild elucidating us that the implicitness of 64bit linux support of a game like Counter-Strike is sadly no implicitness. But as VAC2 seems to be updated like the 64bit binaries of hlds, we are not crying for now. Our only question to Valve (like Knuts) is: Is there any hope for us, the 64bit users? This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: AW: [hlds_linux] 64 bit support
my amxmodx advice comes more from the lack of a JIT more than anything else (the JIT greatly speeds up .amxx plugins). my decision to stop putting extended effort into our AMD64 port, however, comes from the fact that Valve has essentially deprecated it. when they give a timeframe and their commitment to it is clear again, I'll go back to considering an AMD64 JIT port. in my personal opinion amd64 is a great product, and I enjoy working with the processor. however for HL1+AMX Mod X, it makes more sense to run HLDS in 32bit mode (even on 64bit processors). ---bailopan http://www.amxmodx.org/ Simon Lange wrote: Signed! We did observe that opteron machines are not as productive as comparible 32bit servers. e.g. we had a dual athlonMP 2400+ machine with 1.5gb RAM 6 instances with overall 120slots - no lags no performance problems We even had a mta, webserver, dns and a databaseserver in the background running. Then we moved the gameserver to a new machine: Opteron 148 2gb ram 3 instances with 50slots (we did half the slots on the first 2 servers from 40each to 20each) Same configuration of srcds. ONLY the srcds instances run (no database no mta no dns ...) Tons of lags CAUSED by srcds. Symptom: 300mb usage of 2gb ram. Swapfile never touched. Cpu consumption under 10% but sometimes suddenly srcds takes 100% cputime and locks the whole srcds process. While the icmp ping is stable, ppl have 5-10second lags on the gameserver itself. Disabling pingboost solved this but still the machine is under the expected performance a 64bit system should serve. This mailinglist was in the past location of several thread issueing 64bit problems. So I sign knuts's attempt!!! When will we get a usable amd64bit engine?! Current state: hardware upgrading from 32 to 64bit is a downgrade if you are pinned to valve. Best regards Simon -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Knuts Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2006 21:41 An: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: [hlds_linux] 64 bit support This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Valve, We have been running Opteron servers since September 2003, I do believe we were the first to have free to play ones in the world (http://www.jolt.co.uk/index.php?articleid=329). I have seen support for 64 bit reduce over the years to the state where I have been running them in 32 bit for what seems like an eternity just so we can have VAC2 running. I know it's no replacement for a good admin team but it sure helps, the slots we can run are nowhere near the capabilities of the cpus. Even amxmodx have stopped supporting it, to quote the amxx site: "AMD64 Support - One of AMX Mod X's biggest contributions was a 64bit port of the Pawn/Small compiler and virtual machine. In fact, AMX Mod X was the first Metamod plugin to achieve AMD64 compatibility. AMX Mod does not run in 64bit mode. However, Valve has stopped maintaining their AMD64 support -- the latest AMD64 engine is missing client cvar querying and VAC2. Furthermore, the JIT is not available on AMD64, meaning a great deal of potential speed is lost. Running HLDS on AMD64 in 64bit mode is unadvised except for debugging/developer purposes." To say it will be ready when its ready is starting to sound old hat, coming up to 3 years and AMD64 support has disappeared. The future is 64 bit, can we have a definitive answer on what is the future in Valves eyes without the fob off of "it will be ready when it's ready" Regards, Knuts jolt.co.uk -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] FYI Source Meta Mod updated
Thanks for making this thread -- just to reiterate, this will fix Metamod:Source breaking with the latest update. I apologize for not releasing this sooner, and for the bug existing in the first place (it's not supposed to break with updates). ---David Anderson http://www.bailopan.net/ Kevin H wrote: Just installed it on my linux servers. Working fine. http://www.sourcemm.net ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Server-side, metamod-based Cheats, serious threat to fair gaming.
It takes about five seconds and three lines of code modification to alter Metamod to become entirely invisible. If you don't want people modifying their servers, don't let them run their own servers for matches, or use a trusted 3rd party. If you have a specific team that has mysterious demo problems and numerous match disputes, that should be a fairly obvious tip-off anyway. ---David Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.amxmodx.org/ PS - it's been hinted to Valve a number of times to let servers have a "non-stock server" flag in the Steam Browser, but it was only suggested for Source and they never gave any feedback on it. mercury wrote: Hello mailing-list, As you may, or may not have noticed, something pretty bad came out of the dark. Some people have invented a modified version of metamod, which allows players who know the secret command-set to use various server-side implemented cheats. One can enable godmode or noclip for example, without any notification to any player on the server, and even without anyone bing able that this modified metamod is there. It can also disguise other plugins, e.g. disable their listing in "meta list", making it easy to use any plugins, even those that might not be seen with a smile in online gaming ladders for example. This possibility of being abled to write anything you want directly into metamod or metamod-based plugins was a nice feature. We all know the popular, often-played modifications of the game. But seriously, since some guys started to modify their metamod to disguise plugins, that can lower damage to their own team by lets say 50%, or directly provide functions to make single players involunerable, this is a serious thread to all league communities. I also have to mention the feature of the current version of this plugin to stop the demo recordings of specific players on the server without the recording players noticeing. Imagine a League game where every player might be requested to provide his demos afterwards. The betrayed team cant provide their demos, and cant proove anything they say about their demos been stopped without their knowledge. This is no urbal legend, i came across a guy that told me which server to use, and which commands to enter to withness the things i told here. There is no way to tell if one of these modified metamod versions had been used in a match. Actual version gives one the options to perfectly disguise as "genuine metamod" without being abled to see activation of those cheat-commands in the player's console, or just the flag to "look as if there is no metamod or any plugin installed". We definately need some backup from valve on this end, since we know what metamod and its plugins can do to modify a game by looking at the popular fun-game modifications we really need to have an option to surely disable any modifications to the original game which we can see or prove from the outside, without direct access to the server itself. I'd look forward to be contacted by anyone from valve who needs more information i forgot to mention to find a solution to this issue. I can provide an early version of this modified metamod which allows god-mode, noclip and higher jumping, as well as a short demo recording from the server i mentioned. -- Best regards, Dennis "mercury" H. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] c/o Turtle Entertainment GmbH http://www.esl-europe.net/ http://www.turtle-entertainment.de/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Re: srcds lockups
Someone told me you have to use an invalid name and then kill yourself (worldspawn or whatever) to crash the server. I haven't tested this :o ~dvander On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Jeff Stuart wrote: m0gely wrote: Andy Shinn wrote: I just wanted to say I have NOT seen any of these mysterious lockups (yet) on any of my FreeBSD 4.x machines. My server is 4.10. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike FYI, Just watched my server as two players with UTF 8 names disconnected and no server freeze/crash. Though I will note that when I came in this morning, the CS Source server was down. No clue in the logs as to why it went down. -- What's fast, always up and costs less than Viagra? GamerzgroundZ game servers - Any game just $4 a slot (http://www.gamerzgroundz.com) Jeff Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [UA] News Moved to UA Mailing Lists
Who cares about this? UA looks pretty dead to me. According to my e-mail client, the only off topic posts in the last 75 e-mails for hlds-linux were created by UA. With the win32 list the last 20 e-mails had like 2-3 OTs. And do you expect that UA will not receive noob/OT threads in its own realm? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
