Re: [Hornlist] The moon and mars and the horn in F
Dan Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), those libraries already have parts, and are extremely unlikely to buy new ones just because horn players don't have one of the necessary basic skills of their craft. It's not as if creating parts in F requires some sort of advanced technology that's only recently been invented; transposed parts have been available for much standard repertoire for many, many years. When given an option, I always prefer the original notation, for reasons already mentioned and discussed many times on this list, plus one other: My first opportunity to play principal horn in my undergraduate school's orchestra was on the Grieg Piano Concerto. I was given a transposed part and discovered the hard way in the first rehearsal that the little solo in the slow movement had a wrong note in it. Dan Definitely look over the transposed part as soon as you get it. Our orchestra did the Brahms 1st a few years ago, with the parts supplied by Luck's. I was playing third and had decided ahead of time to play the original part, so I had not looked at the transposed part. The 4th horn player called me before the first rehearsal and asked if those were the real notes in the 3rd movement. Whoever transposed the H Basso parts wrote them in bass clef (with 6 sharps) an octave too low, even for old notation. There were errors in the other movements, mostly articulations and dynamics ... but catching them early saved a bunch of rehearsal time. Bill Tyler, Memphis, 1980 - Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: The moon and mars and the horn in F
> subject: Re:The moon and mars and the horn in F > > > In one word? > > > > Tradition... Two words right back . 21st Century Why then do we keep modernizing and improving the basic 'french horn'? Why don't we then as far as tradition goes all go back to using natural horns and inserting the C or D or A or whatever crook as needed and have our wave-like right hand fishing in and out of the bell as they did in the past. Let's do that with the different crooks and then put the music in the Key of F and transpose it that way. That could be our new tradition. Sound a bit inane? To say we do it today because we did it in the past is to foresake progressand yes, this would be in a good way. Washing clothes on a rock by a stream was tradition too but when something better came along, the old was desserted. >And what are you > going to do when you're handed a part at rehearsal out of the library > that's from an older set that only has the original parts? Everyone who's reading this is doing so on a computer. We don't have to for example use a 'slide rule' or heaven forbid, work out mathematical problems by hand anymore. Do you? The calculator/computer does it for us, so we can move on to more 'advanced' and perplexing problems or a more advanced aspect of the problem. Sure it can make some lazy, but it can also make it so you take your time and spend it on the 'next' level of the problem. Ever have an exposed or solo part in a odd key transposition or especially a run that's going a mile a minute? What are you concentrating on when the pressure hits, the phrasing, the dynamics etc or maybe on just plain hitting the right notes? I'm not talking about professionals who have the opportunity to spend time each working day on multifacets of the horn. I'm talking about the vast majority who are on this list(not necessarily those who post here) and who play in the majority of the musical organizations everywhere, amateurs who maybe, just maybe practice 10+- hours a week. Do we have the time to encorporate, learn, digest and then utilize all the transpositions we need to know? > It's also budgetary -- We may not be a so called 'solo' instrument but what are we, 'chopped liver' or second class citizens? ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] The moon and mars and the horn in F
On Sep 5, 2004, at 2:56 PM, Peter Piorkowski wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't there by now a computer program that can be used to put these odd transposing keyed pieces back into the key of F for the horn and have it on manuscript Sounds like a business opportunity. Think of all the orchestral, operatic, and university libraries around the world you could sell these parts to. Go for it! ___ Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), those libraries already have parts, and are extremely unlikely to buy new ones just because horn players don't have one of the necessary basic skills of their craft. It's not as if creating parts in F requires some sort of advanced technology that's only recently been invented; transposed parts have been available for much standard repertoire for many, many years. When given an option, I always prefer the original notation, for reasons already mentioned and discussed many times on this list, plus one other: My first opportunity to play principal horn in my undergraduate school's orchestra was on the Grieg Piano Concerto. I was given a transposed part and discovered the hard way in the first rehearsal that the little solo in the slow movement had a wrong note in it. Dan Dan Phillips Professor of Horn, University of Memphis webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] The moon and mars and the horn in F
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Isn't there by now a computer program that can be > used to put these odd transposing keyed pieces back into the key of > F for the horn and have it on manuscript Sounds like a business opportunity. Think of all the orchestral, operatic, and university libraries around the world you could sell these parts to. Go for it! ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] The moon and mars and the horn in F
In another word? Boredom... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2004 12:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Hornlist] The moon and mars and the horn in F In one word? Tradition... -William In a message dated 9/4/2004 9:15:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Horn transposing is a nice science/art that a horn player has to have in his/her bag of 'goodies', yada yada but sometimes it can be tedious and a bit nerve racking especially when the pressure of the moment comes for an exposed or solo part. Isn't there by now a computer program that can be used to put these odd transposing keyed pieces back into the key of F for the horn and have it on manuscript ready made for us to play. We can put a man on the moon and land on Mars, surely we can put the horn in F, and on paper, can't we? Jim ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.pirtle%40forsythwindquint et.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] replating valves
Bill writes: You should reread my posting more carefully... It does seem that you have researched the process. Many were the brass instruments I had to work on while in the Corps that had been improperly lapped either by hand drill or wobbly bench motor by well intending and otherwise fine repair persons-all of whom had been trained at respectable unnamed schools. Many of these I had to replate/refit because of the ensuing loss of compression. Have I the experience of more august members of the list? Not at all. I guess I had just a little too much coffee the other day and leaped before I looked. The Jack Attack! ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] The moon and mars and the horn in F
On Sunday, September 5, 2004, at 12:14 AM, jlmthompson wrote: Horn transposing is a nice science/art that a horn player has to have in his/her bag of 'goodies', yada yada but sometimes it can be tedious and a bit nerve racking especially when the pressure of the moment comes for an exposed or solo part. Isn't there by now a computer program that can be used to put these odd transposing keyed pieces back into the key of F for the horn and have it on manuscript ready made for us to play. We can put a man on the moon and land on Mars, surely we can put the horn in F, and on paper, can't we? Jim Sure we could. But I don't want it done. There are lessons to be learned in musicianship and style from playing non-transposed parts. First, they are easier to read; no flats or sharps to worry with. Second, hornists become better musicians from learning to play in all keys at sight. And there is no real need to spend all that money on transposing horn parts! It keeps music costs down a bit. Sure it requires some effort; but who said playing a horn was going to be easy? Aren't you smart enough and tough enough to learn something new? CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pmansur%40bellsouth.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Schmidt style horns
I hear the Yamaha 863 is fine horn, although it's not really that old. Chris --- Hurricane Chinooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Who currently makes Schmidt style horns? I just got a vintage York > Schmidt style horn and it has the most comfortable change valve of any > horn I've played so far. Also, the smoothness from one side of the horn > to the other is wonderful. What are the best playing older model > Schmidt style horns out there? Thanks. > > Joyce Maley > http://www.chinookdogs.com > > > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/tedesccj%40yahoo.com > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Replating of valves
You should reread my posting more carefully, how I use shims to set the minimum clearance between the rotor and the casing. I should also point out that the human body is designed all wrong for maintaining a precise alignment when rotating two parts together. Check the tool supply vendors for the files used to restoring the flat to a woodwind key hinge tube after swedging. They can be ordered with and without handles. If the shop you go to has handles, go to another shop. With this setup I am able to use two hands to lift the horn up to a slowly rotating rotor. I not only get much better feel and control, It allows me to use coarser grits initially without the danger of removing too much metal. It also allows effective lapping with very small quantities of compound. John Dutton wrote on 9/4/2004, 11:44 AM: > > > -Original Message- > For the lapping I do when I'm tightening bearings, I built a simple > set up > that lets me use my DeWalt drill to do the work. Because I'll only have > easy shot at the lapping, > > *** > > DO NOT USE A DRILL TO LAP VALVES! A valve should be lapped for only the > distance it needs to travel. By using the drill you are making more gap > than necessary. This is especially true if either the casing or the > rotor > is not true and round as is the case with most horns. I'm sure other > more > experienced techs (I am not worthy of a shingle to hang out) can give > better > reasons yet. The drill method is most often employed by shops that do > school type horns and with the expected uneven results. > > The Jack Attack! > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com > ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 21, Issue 5
I play a Schmidt style horn made by Steve Lewis. It's a wonderful horn. John Schreckengost > -- > > message: 2 > date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 16:26:25 -0400 > from: Hurricane Chinooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: [Hornlist] Schmidt style horns > > Who currently makes Schmidt style horns? I just got a vintage York > Schmidt style horn and it has the most comfortable change valve of any > horn I've played so far. Also, the smoothness from one side of the horn > to the other is wonderful. What are the best playing older model > Schmidt style horns out there? Thanks. > > Joyce Maley > http://www.chinookdogs.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: NYC handhornists
-Original Message- I need crooks for I think F and C at 440. I guess it is worth a shot :-) I have an "A" crook that's 440 ;-) The Jack Attack! ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Replating of valves
When Walter Lawson taught me how to lap valves, he said that the valve should spin freely through all 360 degrees of rotation. If a valve is properly lapped, one should be able to take the spindle, spin the valve, and it should spin around freely several times before it slows to a stop. I have seen people lap valves so that they rotate only 100 degrees or so, just enough to cover the nintey degrees that is needed during actual operation while playing the horn. I'm presuming that this is what jwdutton means. Wilbert in SC --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > A valve should be lapped for only the > distance it needs to travel. > > Could you clarify this, please? > > WH > ___ Wilbert is correct in interpretation of my words. I agree that if a case and rotor are true then lapping a valve by spinning will meet with the desired results. I am sure that Walter Lawson, Wes Hatch, et al would true the casing with the proper tools before lapping the valve. My admonishment is more of the "measure twice (or thrice) before lapping once" kind. Also, I have seen quite a few valves improperly lapped with a drill while a tech with the Marine Corps (not just USMC instruments). In deference to Ray, with the proper care and instruction it isn't necessarily hard to do but I wouldn't start on my prized main horn as my first time out. I'll take the subtle hint and leave the admonishing to the acknowledged experts in the field from now on. The Jack Attack! ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Duets/Trios/Quartets around Hickory, NC?
Greetings - I'll be in Hickory, North Carolina, for a week, starting Sept 13. If anyone's interested in some duets, trios or quartets, please let me know. Thanks, Carlberg Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] The moon and mars and the horn in F
You should stick with transposing your music; it's such a great skill to have. I love being able to transpose because I play in a few different types of groups some of which don't include F horn parts and I get handed tenor horn, trombone (bass & treble clefs), cello and even bassoon music. At first I had to work at it a bit but after a while it becomes second nature and I'm the only player who never misses out on a part to play. And you impress the others no end!! Chris W - Original Message - From: "jlmthompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 21:14:35 -0700 To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Hornlist] The moon and mars and the horn in F Re: Horn transposing is a nice science/art that a horn player has to have in Re: his/her bag of 'goodies', yada yada but sometimes it can be tedious and a Re: bit nerve racking especially when the pressure of the moment comes for an Re: exposed or solo part. Isn't there by now a computer program that can be Re: used to put these odd transposing keyed pieces back into the key of F for Re: the horn and have it on manuscript ready made for us to play. We can put a Re: man on the moon and land on Mars, surely we can put the horn in F, and on Re: paper, can't we? Re: Jim Re: Re: ___ Re: post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/cwill%40graffiti.net -- ___ Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net Check out our value-added Premium features, such as a 1 GB mailbox for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
