Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Survey Results
It might be interesting to find out how many of us have a realistic concept of our own sound. When I was younger, I thought I had a good idea what I sounded like. Until my senior year in high school I played a small Bach mouthpiece using an inverted emboucher, inset into the upper lip. I had terrific high range but had to make a shift for the low range. I had the good fortune to move to Boston and got Ralph Pottle, of the BSO, as a teacher. There was an unexpected vacancy in the principal 4th position of the Greater Boston Youth Symphony. My new best friend at high school, Tony Levin, Principal bass, took me to rehearsal. That day, I went over to Rayburn music and bought a Bach 3 so I could play the low notes. After three weeks, someone realized I wasn't really the replacement horn player, but ruthless (fair to me) as they are, they arranged a formal audition/recital for the principal of the junior orchestra and me. We were each given an obscure Russian piece and told to prepare it for next week. Fortunately, I called Pottle, and he told me to find an accompanist and meet him at Brookline High the next day. Another new friend at Brookline, who had soloed with the Pops, came to my aid. I was doing well enough on the new mouthpiece that Pottle wouldn't risk an embouchure change. It turns out that my rival was a student of Harry Shapiro, another legendary teacher from the BSO. It was close, but I prevailed, probably based on the sound that I was developing on the big bowl shaped mouthpiece. As I look back, I can honestly say that playing in GBYSO was the most intense orchestra experience I have ever had. My son has compared recordings of the 1964 orchestra with newer ones and made an interesting observation. In the 1964 recording, the last year Marvin Rabin conducted, he hears absolutely no missed notes and the intensity comes through even though the recording quality isn't what we have today. I have a more recent recording of the orchestra playing Mahler 2. In that recording, the playing has a few missed notes and the electric intensity is not there, but the playing is much more sophisticated. The high school students in the modern era sound more technically advanced and at ease with their instruments. It always gives me a lift when I experience the incredible abilities of young, hot shot musicians. I hope they realize the value of the elite groups they're in, and savor the accomplishments they achieve. Not everyone chooses to pursue a musical career, and if they do, hopefully they find it's a good way to get by. But go for the elite young groups. The experience is priceless. It's a class of concert I seek out. Wow. That was quite a ramble , even for me, I should probably erase it. Don't read it if you're not interested. Back to my point, I played that Bach 3 through all my serious playing days with the upside down emboucher, and I was particularly noted for my horn tone. When I committed to an engineering career, I put the horn away for five years, and played bass in a serious rock band. When I went back to the horn, I changed my emboucher to a conventional form, but changed to an old Giardinelli with a much deeper cup, reputedly a former mouthpiece of Harry Shapiro. Eventually I lost that mouthpiece, but by then had a son with a good ear to listen to me try out possible replacements. When I played a Bach 3 he told me it sounded awful, but now I was playing with a conventional emboucher. My ear was favoring a deep cup, it sounded full and rich. The one that finally stuck was a Schilke 31, not the 31B, because it gave me a comfortable throughput and both of us were satisfied with the sound. Shortly thereafter, I got into a conversation with Scott Lasky concerning a proper cup shape to match a single Bb horn I was fooling with. His opinion was that the Bb horn is shorter and the cup depth should scale with length. He recommended a Schilke 31B. When I first played it, it seemed so shrill. My son said my tone was spectacular, but I wasn't hearing it. So he recorded me playing in a hall, and I could hear what he was describing. It still took me a few weeks to recalibrate my hearing. I was hearing the deep vee cup as rich and warm, but in reality, it was damping the upper partials. My son described it as the difference between a euphonium and a French horn. So, how many out there have heard recordings of their playing and really know what their sound is. We rarely recognize recordings of our voices, so why should the horn be different. In a message dated 1/31/2005 6:39:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tom Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >On 31 Jan 2005, at 10:29 pm, Stuart A. de Haro wrote: > >> I've ended my mouthpiece survey and have posted the results on my >> website. Here is the link: >> >> http://www.deharohorns.com/mouthpiece_survey_results.html > >Considering that there is just the one model
Re: [Hornlist] Serial Number on Horn
In a message dated 1/31/2005 7:44:51 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are you sure about the thumb valve linkage? My 8D is 1960 vintage and that particular linkage is mechanical, all other valves being stringed. Bill Gross Hi Bill, Yours is original. Many (most?) of the mechanical linkage horns of that era were converted to string linkage. The mechanical linkage throw was long and awkward almost as long and awkward as the linkage on the Eastlake horns. Regards, Jerry in Kansas City ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Free Master Class at Boston Conservatory
I am posting this to both horn lists with Larry Issaccson's approval. Mark L. *Eli Epstein, french horn Cleveland Orchestra, 2nd horn Friday, February 4, 2005 3:00-5:00 p.m. All sessions are free and open to the public and will be presented in Seully Hall on the Fourth floor. We welcome participant performers on the classes marked with an asterisk (*). Please contact Larry Isaacson directly to reserve one of the very limited spaces. Office: 617-912-9246. For more information regarding the Boston Conservatory see: http://www.bostonconservatory.edu/ Directions to Boston Conservatory, 8 The Fenway, Boston: Take the Green line to the Auditorium stop (or just go to Virgin records at the corner of Newbury St.and Mass Ave). Go one block South (towards symphony hall) and turn right onto Boylston St. Go two blocks and turn left onto the Fenway. First door on your left is the Conservatory. For more information, contact Dan McGaha at The Boston Conservatory 617-912-9124. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Holton 288 versus 179
Anyone familiar enough with Holton horns to compare a 288 with a 179? My son and I have our eyes on a 288 that's "B" stock at our local music store - it's a beautiful sounding instrument and to both of us sounds better than the 8D they also have for sale. But we see a lot of 179's out there for much less money and would like to know if we're getting a similar horn if we buy a 179. Thanks. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Serial Number on Horn
Are you sure about the thumb valve linkage? My 8D is 1960 vintage and that particular linkage is mechanical, all other valves being stringed. Bill Gross - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Serial Number on Horn In a message dated 1/31/2005 5:53:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello everyone. I recently came across a conn 8D that looked like it could be no mopre than 20 years old, that has a serial number with no prefix on the second rotor casing that on it's own would point to it being made in the 1960's. No other numbers to found anywhere else on the instrument, minus the bell, with a rather odd embroidery on it, and Conn 8D. NO USA on the bell. Any ideas as to the age or how to determine it? Thanks! Wilson, With "embroidery" on it, and only "Conn 8D" engraved on the bell, this is almost certainly an Eastlake, OH-made horn, and it's probably only a few years old. For it to be a 1960's era horn, you would likely see "8D" stamped on the mouthpipe ferrule (right where you put your mouthpiece in), and the engraving "C.G. Conn, LTD, Elkhart, IND" on the bell, and the thumb trigger would be a string linkage, in all likelihood. If the trigger is mechanical (minibal) then it is certainly a recent 8D. The "embroidery" design is laser engraved. Everyone should see this machine in action. It is powerful and impressive. It vaporizes the metal, and must be used in a sound-dampening booth. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Serial Number on Horn
In a message dated 1/31/2005 5:53:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello everyone. I recently came across a conn 8D that looked like it could be no mopre than 20 years old, that has a serial number with no prefix on the second rotor casing that on it's own would point to it being made in the 1960's. No other numbers to found anywhere else on the instrument, minus the bell, with a rather odd embroidery on it, and Conn 8D. NO USA on the bell. Any ideas as to the age or how to determine it? Thanks! Wilson, With "embroidery" on it, and only "Conn 8D" engraved on the bell, this is almost certainly an Eastlake, OH-made horn, and it's probably only a few years old. For it to be a 1960's era horn, you would likely see "8D" stamped on the mouthpipe ferrule (right where you put your mouthpiece in), and the engraving "C.G. Conn, LTD, Elkhart, IND" on the bell, and the thumb trigger would be a string linkage, in all likelihood. If the trigger is mechanical (minibal) then it is certainly a recent 8D. The "embroidery" design is laser engraved. Everyone should see this machine in action. It is powerful and impressive. It vaporizes the metal, and must be used in a sound-dampening booth. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Serial Number on Horn
Google is your friend, http://www.hornplayer.net/archive/a34.html It looks like your horn was made between 59 and 60. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:54 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Serial Number on Horn Oh yeah, serial number 813499 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Survey Results
On 31 Jan 2005, at 10:29 pm, Stuart A. de Haro wrote: I've ended my mouthpiece survey and have posted the results on my website. Here is the link: http://www.deharohorns.com/mouthpiece_survey_results.html Considering that there is just the one model Pizka; it would seem to be one of the more popular configurations. It might be interesting to see the breakdown of models, on the most popular brands. All the best, Tom ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Serial Number on Horn
Oh yeah, serial number 813499 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Serial Number on Horn
Hello everyone. I recently came across a conn 8D that looked like it could be no mopre than 20 years old, that has a serial number with no prefix on the second rotor casing that on it's own would point to it being made in the 1960's. No other numbers to found anywhere else on the instrument, minus the bell, with a rather odd embroidery on it, and Conn 8D. NO USA on the bell. Any ideas as to the age or how to determine it? Thanks! Wilson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Survey Results
Or, paste this into excel (or gnumeric), and make a nice pie chart... Brand Count Percentage Moosewood 53 17.2% Schilke 32 10.4% Lawson 29 9.4% Giardinelli 24 7.8% Pizka 19 6.2% Holton 18 5.8% Stork 18 5.8% Paxman Halstead Chidell (PHC) 15 4.9% Yamaha 13 4.2% Bach9 2.9% Schmid 9 2.9% Laskey 8 2.6% Alexander 6 1.9% Conn6 1.9% Paxman 6 1.9% Atkinson5 1.6% Patterson 5 1.6% Klier 4 1.3% Denis Wick 3 1.0% Thompson Edition3 1.0% Warburton 3 1.0% Benge 3 1.0% Houser 3 1.0% King2 0.6% SINGLES 12 3.9% SINGLES: List Blessing1 Jupiter 1 Marcinkiewicz 1 McCracken 1 Mirafone1 Parke 1 Perantucci 1 Reynolds1 Sanders 1 Tilz1 WHF 1 Windhager 1 Tony Stratton On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:29:04 -0800 (PST), Stuart A. de Haro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I've ended my mouthpiece survey and have posted the results on my > website. Here is the link: > > http://www.deharohorns.com/mouthpiece_survey_results.html > > Thank you to everyone who filled it out. I received 234 responses, so > I think that is a pretty decent sampling of Horn players. I will keep > the results posted indefinitely. > > Also, I have just added a form for people to submit links to my site. > I will be more than happy to put up a link to any website (personal or > commercial) that would be relevant to my customers' interests. Just > let me know about it. Here is the link: > > http://www.deharohorns.com/linksubmission.html > > Thanks, > Stuart de Haro > > = > Stuart A. de Haro, > Custom Horn Leadpipes, Brass Repair and Modification > (217) 377-1462 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.deharohorns.com > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! > http://my.yahoo.com > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/zumbas%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpiece Survey Results
Hello Everyone, I've ended my mouthpiece survey and have posted the results on my website. Here is the link: http://www.deharohorns.com/mouthpiece_survey_results.html Thank you to everyone who filled it out. I received 234 responses, so I think that is a pretty decent sampling of Horn players. I will keep the results posted indefinitely. Also, I have just added a form for people to submit links to my site. I will be more than happy to put up a link to any website (personal or commercial) that would be relevant to my customers' interests. Just let me know about it. Here is the link: http://www.deharohorns.com/linksubmission.html Thanks, Stuart de Haro = Stuart A. de Haro, Custom Horn Leadpipes, Brass Repair and Modification (217) 377-1462 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.deharohorns.com __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] The Complete Orchestral Horn Parts on CD-ROM
I now have in stock all four volumes of the Complete Horn Parts to over 265 Orchestra masterworks. Each volume sells for $19.95 The Complete Horn Masterworks on CD-ROM is an unprecedented collection, affording musicians the opportunity to build a personal library of orchestral repertoire at an incredibly low price. The CD-ROMs contain the same published parts musicians have been using form many years. If these parts were purchased separately, this collection would easily cost $500.00 or more. Works are viewable and printable on PC or Macintosh. No Access codes or special software is required. The CDs employ Adobe Acrobat Reader technology which is included on the CDs. Vol 1 Includes the horn parts for the following 90 works: Beethoven: All nine symhonies, All piano concertos, overtures-Coriolan, Egmont, Fidelio, Creatures of Prometheus, Fantasia in C Minor, Grosse Fuge in B Major, Ah! Perfido, Violin Concerto, Triple Concerto, King Stephen, Leonore Overtures 1-3, Mass in C Major, Missa Solemnis, Name Day Overture, Romances for Violin in F Major and G Major, The Ruins of Athens Overture, Wellington's Victory Bellini: Norma Overture Berlioz: Symphony Fantastic, Funeral and Triumphal Symphony, L'Enfance du Christ, Harold in Italy, La Mort de Cleopatre, Requiem, Romeo et Juliette, Te Deum, Les Troyesn, Overtures-Benvento Cellini, Corsaire, Roman Carnival Cherubini: Medea Overture, Anacreon Overture Donizetti: Overtures-Daughter of the Regiment, don Pasquale Mendelssohn: Symphonies 1-4, Hyumn of Praise, Piano Concertos 1 & 2, Violin Concerto, Elihah, Midsummer Nights Dream Overture and Incidental Music, Overtures-Ruy Blas, The Hebhrides Rossini: Overtures-Barber of Seville, La Cenerentola, La Gazza Laddra, I'Italiana In Algeri, Semiramide, Siege of Corinth, The Silken Ladder, William Tell Schubert: Symphonies 1-9, Overtures-Fierrabras, Rosamunde Von Weber: Symphony #1, Clarinet Concerto, Overtures-Euryanthe, Der Freischutz, Oberon, and Invitation to the Dance. Vol. II Includes 61 works by: Debussy, Mahler, Bizet, Bruch, Bruckner, Busoni, Faure, Grieg, Reger, and Saint-Saens. Vol. III includes 74 works by: Brahms, Schumann, Chabrier, Chausson, Chopin, Franck, Lalo, Liszt, Offenbach, Sarasate and Suppe Vol. IV includes 42 works by: Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky and Glinka Jimmie Edwards 18833-B 28th Ave. W. Lynnwood, Wa. 98036 425-775-7172 425-775-8072 fax www.akrightmusic.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Horn Bathing/Valve Cleaning
At first, Robert, nothing is for free & most things will cost a bit these days. Rinsing the horn ? Take it to the bath room, remove all valve slides, keep the other slides on their place, descrew the shower head from the hose, get the water temperature adjusted to middle level. Then hold the shower hose on the lead pipe, place it directly hole to hole & get water running through the horn for 30 seconds to one minute. You might move the valves also, so water can exit through valve slide shanks. Stop water. Shake the horn back & forth carefully without bumping against the wall of the bath tube. You might add few drops of a mild dish washer detergent in the back of the horn (bell) & turn the horn around clockwise, the bell to your right, continue until most water is emptied at the smaller end. Pull out the remaining slides & empty all water. This is the first part of the work. How to disassemble the valves ? Place a soft blanket on the table, turn the horn to ist back side. Lose one screw after the other including screws holding the linkage together. Place all parts in a row, but in separate groups for each valve. If you cannot remember well the position of the linkage shoe sitting on the axle, make a small sketch, but look for the "nose" of the shaft of the axle, so the shoe will fit back well & the valve will be at the right position. Open valve cap, but one after the other. Have a good look, how the disk is placed (look for the marks & look for the inner marks which must meet with the marks on the axle. Try it by moving the valve first). Descrew the "valve screw", which holds all together. How to get the shoe off the axle ? Have a small hard wood or hard plastic stick of less then 5 mms thickness ready. Set it on the axle carefully, a few short & mild hits with a small hammer, - and the disk will fall off, the axle gets lose. So you will get the valve rotor out of the casing. Be carefull not to scratch the surface with nothing. The first work is done now. But how to clean the rotors ? All acidic or other solutions are of evil There is a small ultrasonic device available from Rubin & Sons, a tool for jewellers to clean super sensitive precious stones. It is in a price range between 25.- & 50.- USD perhaps. Use it as in the instructions. First mixing the cleaning solution with water, then placing the rotors (one pair at a time) in the little basin, turn to on & wait 2 minutes. The rotors should be clean. Clean them in a mild warm water with few drops of dish water detergent. After having done all this, put a little oil on the rotor before inserting it on its original place. Well, if the rotor casings are too dirty, you have just the choice, to look for a company, which does some ultra sonic cleanings for their own use. Ask them if they could do it for your horn too for a few USD. O.K., now insert the rotors on their place, one by one, place the shoe on its place back. It might be necessary to use a hammer. If so, place a thin piece of wood between hammer & shoe. Dont forget to look for the "nose". Secure the shoe with the valve screw until the rotor will not move along the axle. Set the disk back on ist place. Here comes the trick. The disc (bearing plate) MUST placed absolutely even. How ?? Get a short small tube of plastic or metal, but plain cut (absolutely even), with inner opening wider than the nipple on the bearing plate. Then place it over the nipple & use a very light hit with the little hammer. So the plate will be placed on its slot perfectly. But have a look for the marking before using the hammer. Move the valve. It should run freely, if everything is done properly. Last step: connect the linkage. You could use this procedure to renew all corks. But get the corks (real corks are best) from a repair brass shop, corks for a horn. Wrap them in a towel & hammer them oval. Insert them into their horse shoe (a bit tricky), fix them a bit by a screw driver (without cutting off chips of the cork), and cut them on top with a small carpet scissor. Good luck. Hans -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Fagan Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:12 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Horn Bathing/Valve Cleaning Hi all, I know this has been discussed many (many!!) times but I'd really like to be able to remove and clean my own rotors. However, I've never met anyone here in Ireland able or willing to show me how... It's a very small repair market here and I can understand (but not like) their reluctance to share their techniques. So the question is, is there any web or written description of exactly what should or shouldn't be done when removing and reassembling rotors? I do have an older horn that needs a valve cleaning before I sell it so I can practice on that and if I have any problems I won't have lost any money if I then
Re: [Hornlist] Horn Bathing/Valve Cleaning
I restore some pretty crummy horns from ebay and school usage. I can't recall ever seeing serious damage done by a conscientious owner taking rotors apart to clean them. Once I've seen a bent spindle screw from backing it out too far to drive off the back bearing, and once I had to show someone how to set the bearing clearance. Mostly the horns show normal wear and tear, and after 20-40 years some have so much rotor wear that setting the bearing clearance still won't yield a playable instrument. If I can capture a .0015 feeler gauge with the rotors in the casing, tightening the bearings will make the horn student playable. The oil water emulsion we all rely on seems capable of sealing .001" between the rotor and casing on a well designed rotor. Leakage is usually only port to port and has minimal effect on playing as long as there are no tubing leaks. I admit, this micro leaking will take a tad off the playability to a professional player expecting perfection, but is quite livable for most purposes. Where I have seen gross damage to instruments is from 'professionals' who have worked their way into a position of trust serving a large musical program. As soon as I see that bright, grainy appearance of spotlessly clean tubing, casings, and rotors, I know I've got a problem. Apparently, soaking horns in acid dip for days on end, in acid concentrations that would strip flesh to the bone, is standard cleaning procedure. I realize techs have a business to run, and cleaning is a reasonable way to make some money from people too lazy, or valuable, to do for themselves. But the damage done by these predatory techs needs to be pointed out, and eliminated. The problem is, people too consumed with other things are easy victims, and probably are rarely aware of the damage done. For my part, I try to spread the word, and encourage players to learn simple maintenance. In a message dated 1/31/2005 9:50:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >In a message dated 1/31/2005 9:35:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >DO NOT have your horn cleaned at any 'off site' place (ie. A workshop, or >concert). These shops will not have their full facilities available to do a >proper job. > > > > >Just to emphasize Ken's point here: Repair shops have tools and equipment >that you don't have at home (ok, a few of you do), and can solve almost every >problem that arises. Some problems only surface while you are doing routine >maintenance. Your repair shop adds a lot of value to that chemical cleaning. > > >I'll give you a short list of a few of the things we look for while cleaning >your instrument (and that ANY repair shop should look for): > >1. Broken braces, particularly those pesky 3rd/F slide braces >2. Broken solder joints at ferrules >3. Leaks >4. Obstructions of the airways, such as solder blobs >5. Alignment of the valves >6. Proper operation of all linkages >7. Proper alignment (planar) of mechanical linkages. >8. Broken or stripped rotor stop screws and stop plate screws >9. Alignment of slide tubes >10. Loose fit of slide tubes >11. Valve compression >etc. > >And, we will recommend a proper lubrication regimen once your instrument has >been serviced. You do get more than just a cleaning. > >Dave Weiner >Brass Arts Unlimited > >___ >post: horn@music.memphis.edu >unsubscribe or set options at >http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpiece bore and horn bore
When changing to a horn of a narrower bore, e.g., a traditional Vienna horn, would one normally keep the same mouthpiece, change to one of a larger bore, a smaller bore, or is this purely individual preference through trial and error? Or is the difference in bore between a Vienna horn and a modern one not that signficant that any change is usually needed? It's only an academic concern for me but I'm curious and, from what I've learned so far, my guess would be that there is no predicting which way, if any, a player would go. Thanks in advance. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Cleaning/Bath
I'll agree with Ken. I am willing and able to remove the valves from my Finke, and I have. However, when I saw bad things in my horn, I took it to Ken to be cleaned properly. He has equipment and knowledge I don't. With proper oiling my horn won't need professional cleaning for a long time. Herb Foster --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Soyou want to keep your horns clean and do it on the cheap, and safely > too? > First of all, I agree with Dave Weiner- if you do your own cleanings with > those kits which are available - you must be very careful to be certain to > remove ALL traces of the cleaning fluids AND you must neutralize the > surfaces afterwards OR you will be leaving your instruments in a non-neutral > state. In otherwords, by trying to save money - you could be ending up with > a horn which is 'Red Rot Ready'. > There are even top name repair shops who use over the counter toilet bowl > cleaners to clean horns at conventions WITHOUT neutralizing the horn, > WITHOUT degreasing the instrument by fully immersing it, WITHOUT fully > immersing the body of the horn in said cleaning fluids - AND they charge > high prices too - in my mind they are doing more harm, than good to a horn. > > So... my suggestions: > 1. Get the horn cleaned professionally - IN a well respected shop, > preferably ultrasonically! THEN keep it well oiled, and keep the mouthpipe > clean. That way you'll only have to have it cleaned every 3 or 4 years! > That works out to about $30/year (less than you pay for a single oil change > with your car). > > 2. DO NOT have your horn cleaned at any 'off site' place (ie. A workshop, or > concert). These shops will not have their full facilities available to do a > proper job. > > I understand your desire to save money (I have 4 kids!!), but you should > keep things in a proper perspective. Also, please do not think even for a > moment that I am advocating this because I am a technician who benefits from > doing this procedure, I am advocating this from the standpoint of seeing > hundreds of horns a year that have been home 'cleaned', or poorly cleaned by > other shops and spend much of my time re-repairing said instruments. > > Sincerely, > Ken > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Observations on Returning to the Horn
Paul, There is a new biography out on Wodehouse, titled "Wodehouse: A Life." Got it for my wife for Christmas. It got a lot of favorable coverage on NPR. Bill Gross - Original Message - From: "Paul Mansur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Horn List" Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Observations on Returning to the Horn Hi, Bill. Good to see your name again. You used to lay some astute observations on us once in a while that I enjoyed a lot. Speaking of Wodehouse, I discovered him and Bertie Wooster when I was in high school. I read everything I could find and exhausted the resources of the Wewoka public library. That was in the early 40s, by the way. Congrats, on your good fortune, both finding a wife and Wodehouse! And taking lessons, again. Cheers, Mansur's Answers On Monday, January 31, 2005, at 08:18 AM, Bill Gross wrote: After a thirty some odd year hiatus I've started studying the horn again. In the interim, I married a wonderful woman who introduced me to, among other things, PG Wodehouse. As I read this list and get advice from my teacher on stuff that can assist in learning to play the horn, I'm struck with the similarity between the tools now available to help horn students and PG Wodehouse's stories of golfers searching for the right gadget to improve their game. - Bill Gross ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pmansur%40bellsouth.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Observations on Returning to the Horn
Hi, Bill. Good to see your name again. You used to lay some astute observations on us once in a while that I enjoyed a lot. Speaking of Wodehouse, I discovered him and Bertie Wooster when I was in high school. I read everything I could find and exhausted the resources of the Wewoka public library. That was in the early 40s, by the way. Congrats, on your good fortune, both finding a wife and Wodehouse! And taking lessons, again. Cheers, Mansur's Answers On Monday, January 31, 2005, at 08:18 AM, Bill Gross wrote: After a thirty some odd year hiatus I've started studying the horn again. In the interim, I married a wonderful woman who introduced me to, among other things, PG Wodehouse. As I read this list and get advice from my teacher on stuff that can assist in learning to play the horn, I'm struck with the similarity between the tools now available to help horn students and PG Wodehouse's stories of golfers searching for the right gadget to improve their game. - Bill Gross ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pmansur%40bellsouth.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn Bathing/Valve Cleaning
In a message dated 1/31/2005 9:35:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: DO NOT have your horn cleaned at any 'off site' place (ie. A workshop, or concert). These shops will not have their full facilities available to do a proper job. Just to emphasize Ken's point here: Repair shops have tools and equipment that you don't have at home (ok, a few of you do), and can solve almost every problem that arises. Some problems only surface while you are doing routine maintenance. Your repair shop adds a lot of value to that chemical cleaning. I'll give you a short list of a few of the things we look for while cleaning your instrument (and that ANY repair shop should look for): 1. Broken braces, particularly those pesky 3rd/F slide braces 2. Broken solder joints at ferrules 3. Leaks 4. Obstructions of the airways, such as solder blobs 5. Alignment of the valves 6. Proper operation of all linkages 7. Proper alignment (planar) of mechanical linkages. 8. Broken or stripped rotor stop screws and stop plate screws 9. Alignment of slide tubes 10. Loose fit of slide tubes 11. Valve compression etc. And, we will recommend a proper lubrication regimen once your instrument has been serviced. You do get more than just a cleaning. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Observations on Returning to the Horn
Mark, No real point, other than just an observation. One which you wrapped up neatly, I might add. Bill Gross - Original Message - From: "Mark Louttit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Horn List" Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Observations on Returning to the Horn Hi Bill, I appreciate your post and wish you all the best in your return to the horn. My question to you, would be: what's your point ? Isn't that part of the human condition ? We are always seeking a tool (or a Holy Grail, or a magic sword) that will solve all of our problems. Wodehouse clearly observed this in his wonderful writings. I like gadgets. gizmos and wunderhorns myself (and have spent my money over the years) , but in the end, it is doing the fundamentals consistently that will get you where you want to go. Mark L/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Horn Bathing/Valve Cleaning
Although I don't think this is quite what you're looking for (maybe it is - it's certainly over my head), a Google search on "how to clean french horn rotors" found this page: http://www.oberloh.com/gallery/current2.htm which is Part 2 of a French Horn Restoration section of the web site. I suspect searching on "how to clean french horn valves" might yield some interesting information as well. Steve "What would we do without Google?" Freides > -Original Message- > From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > du] On Behalf Of Robert Fagan > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 8:12 AM > To: 'The Horn List' > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Horn Bathing/Valve Cleaning > > Hi all, > I know this has been discussed many (many!!) times but > I'd really like to be able to remove and clean my own rotors. > However, I've never met anyone here in Ireland able or > willing to show me how... It's a very small repair market > here and I can understand (but not like) their reluctance to > share their techniques. So the question is, is there any web > or written description of exactly what should or shouldn't be > done when removing and reassembling rotors? I do have an > older horn that needs a valve cleaning before I sell it so I > can practice on that and if I have any problems I won't have > lost any money if I then need a repairman to fix my mistakes! > > Thanks a million for any info, > > Robert > > > > A friend will help you move, a good friend will help you move a body. > > Robert Fagan > Moyne Institute, > Trinity College, > Dublin 2, > Ireland > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > +353 1 6081817 > > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridaysc omputer.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Observations on Returning to the Horn
Hi Bill, I appreciate your post and wish you all the best in your return to the horn. My question to you, would be: what's your point ? Isn't that part of the human condition ? We are always seeking a tool (or a Holy Grail, or a magic sword) that will solve all of our problems. Wodehouse clearly observed this in his wonderful writings. I like gadgets. gizmos and wunderhorns myself (and have spent my money over the years) , but in the end, it is doing the fundamentals consistently that will get you where you want to go. Mark L/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Horn Cleaning/Bath
Soyou want to keep your horns clean and do it on the cheap, and safely too? First of all, I agree with Dave Weiner- if you do your own cleanings with those kits which are available - you must be very careful to be certain to remove ALL traces of the cleaning fluids AND you must neutralize the surfaces afterwards OR you will be leaving your instruments in a non-neutral state. In otherwords, by trying to save money - you could be ending up with a horn which is 'Red Rot Ready'. There are even top name repair shops who use over the counter toilet bowl cleaners to clean horns at conventions WITHOUT neutralizing the horn, WITHOUT degreasing the instrument by fully immersing it, WITHOUT fully immersing the body of the horn in said cleaning fluids - AND they charge high prices too - in my mind they are doing more harm, than good to a horn. So... my suggestions: 1. Get the horn cleaned professionally - IN a well respected shop, preferably ultrasonically! THEN keep it well oiled, and keep the mouthpipe clean. That way you'll only have to have it cleaned every 3 or 4 years! That works out to about $30/year (less than you pay for a single oil change with your car). 2. DO NOT have your horn cleaned at any 'off site' place (ie. A workshop, or concert). These shops will not have their full facilities available to do a proper job. I understand your desire to save money (I have 4 kids!!), but you should keep things in a proper perspective. Also, please do not think even for a moment that I am advocating this because I am a technician who benefits from doing this procedure, I am advocating this from the standpoint of seeing hundreds of horns a year that have been home 'cleaned', or poorly cleaned by other shops and spend much of my time re-repairing said instruments. Sincerely, Ken "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" http://www.poperepair.com U.S. Dealer: Ricco Kühn, Paxman and Dietmar Dürk Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn Bathing/Valve Cleaning
In a message dated 1/31/2005 8:12:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I know this has been discussed many (many!!) times but I'd really like to be able to remove and clean my own rotors. However, I've never met anyone here in Ireland able or willing to show me how... It's a very small repair market here and I can understand (but not like) their reluctance to share their techniques. I believe a horn player should be able to take care of their own equipment. Trumpet players can remove their own valves, so why not horn players? It's really an easy procedure. There is no mystery here, so I am willing to "reveal" the secrets to removing valve rotors. 1. Unscrew and set aside the valve cap. 2. Unscrew and remove the string or mechanical linkage from the rotor stop. If the rotor stop comes off the rotor shaft, fine. If not, don't force it. 3. Using a brass rod (we call this a "drift") just the same diameter as the rotor shaft and a rawhide mallet, drive the rotor shaft and top bearing plate out, through the rotor stop if it has not already come off the rotor shaft. If it has come off the rotor shaft, then you can drive the rotor and plate out with just the rawhide mallet. 4. To replace the rotor, insert it into the casing and place the bearing plate back onto the casing aligned with the registration mark. Using a wooden spool or some other flat block with a hollow to go around the bearing, tap the bearing plate back done into the casing with your rawhide mallet. You may use the cap from a bottle of valve oil if you don't have a wooden spool. There are so many caveats in this procedure that I won't list them here. You just have to be careful not to scratch, bend, or drop anything; take care to use just the right amount of force to remove and replace the valves; and take care to put everything back where it belongs. When all goes well you can take a lot of pride in a job well done. When all goes badly, you can take a trip to the repair shop. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Observations on Returning to the Horn
After a thirty some odd year hiatus I've started studying the horn again. In the interim, I married a wonderful woman who introduced me to, among other things, PG Wodehouse. As I read this list and get advice from my teacher on stuff that can assist in learning to play the horn, I'm struck with the similarity between the tools now available to help horn students and PG Wodehouse's stories of golfers searching for the right gadget to improve their game. - Bill Gross ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Horn Bathing/Valve Cleaning
Hi all, I know this has been discussed many (many!!) times but I'd really like to be able to remove and clean my own rotors. However, I've never met anyone here in Ireland able or willing to show me how... It's a very small repair market here and I can understand (but not like) their reluctance to share their techniques. So the question is, is there any web or written description of exactly what should or shouldn't be done when removing and reassembling rotors? I do have an older horn that needs a valve cleaning before I sell it so I can practice on that and if I have any problems I won't have lost any money if I then need a repairman to fix my mistakes! Thanks a million for any info, Robert A friend will help you move, a good friend will help you move a body. Robert Fagan Moyne Institute, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland [EMAIL PROTECTED] +353 1 6081817 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
