Re: [Hornlist] Chicago and New York styles
I don't know how it is in the big leagues, but we have never had a conductor try to manipulate the tone we produce. I think it is influenced more by the principal horn and the cooperative effort of the section. Of course, if the conductor has a long enough tenure, he/she can influence the outcome of auditions, but even that influence is much less with today's union orchestras. CORdially, Luke Zyla 2nd horn, WV Symphony Orchestra - Original Message - From: "Bill Tyler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Horn List" Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Chicago and New York styles Good points, all. You wouldn't want to play the Bizet Symphony the same style as Mahler 1. Don't forget the influence of the music director. Maybe the "Chicago" sound is the result of what Reiner wanted and what Solti wanted. Wouldn't the Boston Symphony sound different if Szell had been the conductor for 15 years? Back to lurking ... Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/24/06 1:03:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think a better way to look at the idea of tone production would be to apply different "colors' of sound depending on the individual piece This is a healthy and correct approach to sound/tone. It is important to think of yourself as an artist that needs and has many different colors of paint to work with. - Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lzyla%40charter.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Chicago and New York styles
Good points, all. You wouldn't want to play the Bizet Symphony the same style as Mahler 1. Don't forget the influence of the music director. Maybe the "Chicago" sound is the result of what Reiner wanted and what Solti wanted. Wouldn't the Boston Symphony sound different if Szell had been the conductor for 15 years? Back to lurking ... Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/24/06 1:03:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I think a better way to look at the idea of > tone production would be to apply different "colors' > of sound depending on the individual piece > This is a healthy and correct approach to sound/tone. It is important to think of yourself as an artist that needs and has many different colors of paint to work with. - Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Recording and Mic Placement
Lately, I have been trying to record myself more and more. I want to move beyond just recording my practice sessions with a mini disc and a small microphone. I have asked dozens of "recording" people about mics and various recording equipment, but it just occurred to me that I should be asking HORNISTS. What kind of mic do you use when recording yourself? Or what kind of mics have been used to record you in studio situations? Specific brands and models would be more helpful than just "dynamic" or "condenser" Also, what is the optimum mic placement for recording a solo horn? Thank you for your help, Michael Ozment ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Chicago and New York styles
In a message dated 1/24/06 1:03:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I think a better way to look at the idea of > tone production would be to apply different "colors' > of sound depending on the individual piece > This is a healthy and correct approach to sound/tone. It is important to think of yourself as an artist that needs and has many different colors of paint to work with. Consider how limited your work would be if you had only one color to work with. After you are able to assemble a full palate of colors, then you are able to work developing the different types of brush strokes (articulation), the different depths of the individual colors (weight of sound, articulation, dynamics, accents, etc.), and the overall idea of what you want to paint and how you want to paint it (interpretation). Then you will have developed some artistic versatility and can really do justice to the music you are performing and make a valid contribution to your art. Paul Navarro ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Chicago and New York styles
Nick, I totally agree with what Luke is saying. It is true that most orchestras today (especially in America) are starting to have very similar horn "sounds". The only real difference would be found between perhaps American and European orchestras nowadays. This is still a very small difference though. A bad habit I think many younger players can develop is trying too hard to fit in with a particular "sound". Many students strive so hard to get that old-school "chicago", "new york", or "philly" sound. I call this a bad habit because, as an up and coming horn player, it is far more important in today's music business to be as versatile as possible. What happens when you devote all of your practice and listening to have a "chicago" type sound, but lose an audition because that's not how that orchestra's horn section plays normally. I think a better way to look at the idea of tone production would be to apply different "colors' of sound depending on the individual piece. I know I fell into the habit of trying to play a piece like Beethoven 6 in this way. Most of the recordings I had based my "New York" sound on were recordings of Mahler, Strauss, and Brahms. The result was like hearing a Bass try to sing a Soprano part. The notes are all there, but the tone quality is not appropriate. I believe it would be more in your interest to listen to as many different recordings, by different orchestras, and of many different pieces varying in style and time period, and basing your idea of "sound" on what is asthetically pleasing to the music in front of you. I hope this information was helpful. I think many younger players could learn a lot from this approach to playing excerpts. Allen Fogle --- Luke Zyla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nick, > In the past there used to be a very distinct > difference between the "New > York" and "Chicago" style of horn playing. I think > this was mainly due to > the big difference between the equipment used in > each section. The New York > section used to be 8-D with a very large mouthpiece. > I can't tell you the > exact sound because I never heard them live back in > that day. Now, however, > they used Engelbert Schmit horns which are much more > in line with the Lewis > horns used in Chicago. The New York section perform > the Schumann > Concertpiece with us a couple of summers ago. I can > say that the sound is > centered without being overly brassy, even at the > loudest dynamics. It was > the most thrilling horn sound I have ever heard! > Their dynamic range was > incredible. They always sounded like they had some > in reserve. Ensemble > was impeccable and intonation was perfect. Their > musicality was flawless! > In today's world, it seems that the concept of > sound is becoming more > homogeneous. Some may think this is a bad thing, > but I think it is > inevitable. On my old recordings, I was always able > to pick out the > orchestra by listening to the horn section. Today, > I'm not sure that I > could do the same. > > CORdially, > Luke Zyla > 2nd horn, WV Symphony Orchestra > www.wvsymphony.org > > > - Original Message - > From: "Nicholas Hartman Hartman" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:26 PM > Subject: [Hornlist] Chicago and New York styles > > > > Dear List, > >Could someone please clarify for me the > difference > > between the Chicago and New York styles of > playing. > > I've been told that I lean more toward the Chicago > > style, but apart from a brighter sound and a > smaller > > horn, I really have no idea what that means. What > are > > the differences in the styles, advantages and > > disadvantages of both styles, and typical > equipment > > (Mouthpieces as well) of each style? Also, where > and > > how did each style develop? I'm just not very > clear on > > these two different American schools of thought. > > > > Thanks very much, > > Nick > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ___ > > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > > unsubscribe or set options at > > > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lzyla%40charter.net > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hornboy14%40yahoo.com > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Lighter weight horns
I'll put in my 2 cents here. I play an E. Schmid double and couldn't be happier with the horn. I used to play a Farkas 179, and I find that the Schmid is much more responsive and projects in the hall much better and with much less effort. It puts out what I put into it. For example, when I played the Farkas, our youth symphony played/recorded Copland 3 and Symphonic Dances from West Side Story. When I listened to the recording, I was quite dissapointed at the way my sound didn't project in the hall, cause man I was putting out. I have found that my much smaller, lighter horn projects much better, and I love the loud sound I get on it. On the subject of weight, I agree with Mr. Bamburg. I've played my professor's Schmid Triple several times, and, while the F-side is a welcome tool that strenghtens the most difficult areas of the range, I find that I still prefer my double because of how responsive it is. The difference in ease in the extreme high range and the middle c to g below the staff is, in my opinion, minimal at best (not to mention the extreme difference in timbres between the Bb and the high F horns), and overall not worth the substantial amount of extra weight. Tyler 2006/1/23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > In a message dated 1/23/06 11:27:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > I've sat in sections that would make you go blind from how loud > > it was down there but you go out in the audience and ... nothing. > > > > > > Steve, > Isn't it sort of funny how players can get tricked into believing that > loud > really projects and then so easily reach the dimension of loud that is > ugly and > dead? > I once heard a player (who was on an audition committee that I was > also > on) tell a candidate who asked about how they played on the audition-- > "Your > sound was always loud, and mostly too brassy and edgy- but I don't think > that it > is really a problem because it doesn't project". > Paul > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/tkholt%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] FWD: lighter weight horns
Is there a standard definition for dark sound, light sound, heavy sound? Or is it like pornography (as per a Supreme Court Justice)? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 7:31 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] FWD: lighter weight horns In a message dated 1/23/06 11:22:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > helps the performer achieve a level of > flexibility with the instrument that allows them to change or adapt to any > necessary criteria in a moments notice. > This is to clarify what "allows them to change or adapt to any necessary criteria" refers to in this statement (as asked for in a private e-mail). What I mean is, when the instrument allows the performer to change (for example) from a heavy to a light sound, from a dark to a brighter sound. from a bright to a darker sound, from hard articulation to light articulation--etc., etc., or in other words, when the instrument allows the performer be as musically flexible as they want and need to be without getting in the way. Paul Navarro ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] FWD: lighter weight horns
In a message dated 1/23/06 11:22:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > helps the performer achieve a level of > flexibility with the instrument that allows them to change or adapt to any > necessary criteria in a moments notice. > This is to clarify what "allows them to change or adapt to any necessary criteria" refers to in this statement (as asked for in a private e-mail). What I mean is, when the instrument allows the performer to change (for example) from a heavy to a light sound, from a dark to a brighter sound. from a bright to a darker sound, from hard articulation to light articulation--etc., etc., or in other words, when the instrument allows the performer be as musically flexible as they want and need to be without getting in the way. Paul Navarro ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] von Weber Multiphonics
Sorry, William, what kind of a performance will THAT be, if the orchestra does not or cannot listen to the soloist nor the conductor is able or interested to keep the orchestra in the right dynamic. And if you dont know what to do that the multiphonics in the cadenza do work properly ? This before my answer. The multiphonics require you play on the F-side there, otherwise the summation tones will NOT appear. You hum the upper notes back in the glottis. Turn the bell a bit more to the audience. Ask the orchestra (through the conductor) to keep dynamic discipline. The orchestra must bring the chords the chords upon the sign of the conductor and soft in character. Dont forget the two eights in M.160 (written) c2 & a-fl.1 at the end of the measure, which begins with the fermata upon written f2. The written low c & c2 entrances in forte not as loud as the forte be usually, but well set. The Polacca should be in tempo as a Polish Dance, about 108 beats/min. M.246 (entrance with a-fl.2 (written) can be a nice forte, while the answer in M.250 be nice in piano. Do jump nicely as in M.180 & similar with nice accents upon the beats, holding the upper note for the full time, even using F-horn for the written c & e, but playing the lower c on the Bb-side, so it speaks better. Start very slow in M.327 & go back into the tempo gradually until M.330 (by the way it runs much better on the F-side). The chord downwards begin better with a light accent on the wtitten c2 (M.332) & use Bb-horn for the written c1 in M.333 together with an accent, stay on the 2nd valve F-Horn until written g2, swith to Bb-horn for the two climax notes. For the middle section M.130ff: remember holding back a bit for the run to written high d3 in M.131. The hopping down is best done on the F-side 2nd valve. A light accent on the written g M.133. The earlier "con fuoco" not faster but livelier in the mood & expression, very fresh in character. The beginning Andante also in M.108/min. for the eights. There is a wrong note in the old Breitkopf at M16, where the 2nd note be written c2 instead of printed d2. The Andante con moto at 120 beats/min. - it will allow you delicate playing & accurate pronounciation of all sixteenths. Trust me, you will get faster anyway.. Again for the cadenza: sing it like telling a nice poem, keeping enough time for the mordents & the high leaps (M.152 & 162). Good luck anyway ! === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 7:34 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] von Weber Multiphonics I'm performing the von Weber with an orchestra on the 31st (next Tuesday) and the hall I'm playing in is somewhat odd. I was informed that the multiphonics would probably not be heard or accepted by our audience and they might not have a clue what is going on so the conductor gave me the option of cutting them out alltogether - and I have a few days to decide. I thought maybe I wasn't doing the multiphonics correctly but I spent quite a long time making sure all of the chords were correct, and they are. I'm no pro with multiphonics either but I'd hate to cut them out alltogether without at least trying to see if I can make them sound as great as possible even though it's not the meat and potatoes of the piece. But it was written in the piece so it was meant to be played. Other than that I'm very happy with my performance of it but the conductor isn't really following what I want to do with it musically yet and the orchestra really hasn't looked at the music and so that's something that greatly concerns me. They aren't even listening to me when I switch from F to Piano and there isn't really much I can do to get them to listen. I'm happy with my style of the music but it is as if the orchestra really isn't paying attention to what I'm doing and they're off on their own planet. Anyway since I have no real questions about the style/music of the piece at this point my only question is about the multiphonics. Is the only real way for me to figure out how they should work is to record them and play them back? Or is there any knack that anyone uses to make sure they work? Thanks! -William ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
