RE: [Hornlist] Pan American Natural Horn
Hello Steve, are you using your "Pan Americain" to fry your "French Freides" ? - Believe me & see, it is not only you "getting silly" .. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Freides Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:44 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Pan American Natural Horn > -Original Message- > From: Joel Gilbert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Hi, I was looking through the hornplayer.net site, and found a natural > horn of Pan American make. I have been looking into purchasing a > natural horn and the price is right, but I have never heard of that > company. There is nothing that I can find on that company either. > Does anyone know the history and quality of horns produced by that > company? I have several Pan Americans but they're in my kitchen. We made dinner in one of them tonight. I wonder why no one makes a stainless steel horn. Steve "getting silly" Freides ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Pan American Natural Horn
Quote: "Hi, I was looking through the hornplayer.net site, and found a natural horn of Pan American make." -- The Pan American brand was a mediocre quality school brand making a single F horn in addition to various other instruments like saxophones. In fact the sound of the Pan American saxophone is remarkably like the vintage Pan American single f horn or vice versa. It is only a natural horn because someone has done a valve-ectomy on the poor thing. Actually, it probably plays better as a 'valveless horn' than it ever did in its original incarnation. It will NOT play like an authentic natural horn but might meet your needs depending on price. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Pan American Natural Horn
> -Original Message- > From: Joel Gilbert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Hi, I was looking through the hornplayer.net site, and found > a natural horn of Pan American make. I have been looking > into purchasing a natural horn and the price is right, but I > have never heard of that company. There is nothing that I > can find on that company either. Does anyone know the > history and quality of horns produced by that company? I have several Pan Americans but they're in my kitchen. We made dinner in one of them tonight. I wonder why no one makes a stainless steel horn. Steve "getting silly" Freides ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Pan American Natural Horn
I thought, and this might be the naivety of a high school senior, that Pan American was at one time part of Conn Selmer. Am I right? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:32:57 -0500 > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Subject: [Hornlist] Pan American Natural Horn > > Hi, I was looking through the hornplayer.net site, and found a natural > horn > of Pan American make. I have been looking into purchasing a natural horn > and the price is right, but I have never heard of that company. There is > nothing that I can find on that company either. Does anyone know the > history and quality of horns produced by that company? > > Thanks, > > Joel > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/ketch90%40inbox.com GET FREE 5GB EMAIL - Check out spam free email with many cool features! Visit http://www.inbox.com/email to find out more! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Pan American Natural Horn
Hi, I was looking through the hornplayer.net site, and found a natural horn of Pan American make. I have been looking into purchasing a natural horn and the price is right, but I have never heard of that company. There is nothing that I can find on that company either. Does anyone know the history and quality of horns produced by that company? Thanks, Joel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections
Horological or Hornological ? What is logical with the horn -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:53 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections That's an honest mistake, because the International Time Travel Society is a subdivision of the International Horological Society, which is right underneath the International Horn Society in the International Yellow Pages of International Societies. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited -Original Message- From: Greg Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: The Horn List Sent: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections hans wrote:? > How can we vote for "past elections". Look at the ballot &? > find out why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did? > you receive the same ballot for the 2007 elections with the? > recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, No.2, February 2008, which? > must be mailed back not later than April 15th, 2007 ) Oh? > boy ...? ? You must have been mailed the ballot for the International Proofreading Society. Or maybe the International Time Travel Society? ? ? ___? post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/brassartsunli m%40aol.com? More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections
Oh no ! It "must be mailed back". -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Campbell Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:47 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections hans wrote: > How can we vote for "past elections". Look at the ballot & find out > why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did you receive the same > ballot for the 2007 elections with the recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, > No.2, February 2008, which must be mailed back not later than April > 15th, 2007 ) Oh boy ... You must have been mailed the ballot for the International Proofreading Society. Or maybe the International Time Travel Society ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: IHS advisory board elections
Seems to be like fortune telling. It is easy to explain things after they have happen, saying, yes, I knew that before . In the coffeegrounds, perhaps, in the crystal globe Who knows ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:34 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: IHS advisory board elections Hey, Hans, Haven't you heard? This is how we hold elections now in the USA! Wait until November and see what happens! KB Registered voter in the "first in the nation" state of NH PS: With all these candidates for IHS AC, maybe we need to implement a "primary" or "caucus" and form an "electoral college?" But we would call it a "clamary" or "clamcus" and form the "electoral clamage." Hans wrote: How can we vote for "past elections". Look at the ballot & find out why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did you receive the same ballot for the 2007 elections with the recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, No.2, February 2008, which must be mailed back not later than April 15th, 2007 ) Oh boy ... **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/ rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: IHS advisory board elections
The election should be held in Florida to guarantee the most 'interesting' results. Butterfly ballots anyone? On 2/19/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey, Hans, > > Haven't you heard? This is how we hold elections now in the USA! Wait > until November and see what happens! > > KB > Registered voter in the "first in the nation" state of NH > > PS: With all these candidates for IHS AC, maybe we need to implement a > "primary" or "caucus" and form an "electoral college?" But we > would call it a > "clamary" or "clamcus" and form the "electoral clamage." > > > Hans wrote: > > How can we vote for "past elections". Look at the ballot & > find out why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did > you receive the same ballot for the 2007 elections with the > recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, No.2, February 2008, which > must be mailed back not later than April 15th, 2007 ) Oh > boy ... > > > > > > > **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. > ( > http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ > 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598) > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections
That's an honest mistake, because the International Time Travel Society is a subdivision of the International Horological Society, which is right underneath the International Horn Society in the International Yellow Pages of International Societies. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited -Original Message- From: Greg Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: The Horn List Sent: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections hans wrote:? > How can we vote for "past elections". Look at the ballot &? > find out why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did? > you receive the same ballot for the 2007 elections with the? > recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, No.2, February 2008, which? > must be mailed back not later than April 15th, 2007 ) Oh? > boy ...? ? You must have been mailed the ballot for the International Proofreading Society. Or maybe the International Time Travel Society? ? ? ___? post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/brassartsunlim%40aol.com? More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections
hans wrote: How can we vote for "past elections". Look at the ballot & find out why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did you receive the same ballot for the 2007 elections with the recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, No.2, February 2008, which must be mailed back not later than April 15th, 2007 ) Oh boy ... You must have been mailed the ballot for the International Proofreading Society. Or maybe the International Time Travel Society ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: IHS advisory board elections
Hey, Hans, Haven't you heard? This is how we hold elections now in the USA! Wait until November and see what happens! KB Registered voter in the "first in the nation" state of NH PS: With all these candidates for IHS AC, maybe we need to implement a "primary" or "caucus" and form an "electoral college?" But we would call it a "clamary" or "clamcus" and form the "electoral clamage." Hans wrote: How can we vote for "past elections". Look at the ballot & find out why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did you receive the same ballot for the 2007 elections with the recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, No.2, February 2008, which must be mailed back not later than April 15th, 2007 ) Oh boy ... **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Brahms Trio
Amen !!!
=
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of sheldon kirshner
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:11 PM
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Brahms Trio
As as sort of addendum to Dave's comment,
whatever (horn--or the use thereof)enables you to best
express the musical message you want to convey--i.e., your
best musical expression (including tone quality and
characteristics) of what Brahms has written--is the way to
go. The rest is a technical conundrum.
Shel
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
du] On Behalf Of David Goldberg
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:57 AM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Brahms Trio
Of course if you play the Brahms Trio on a valved horn, you
don't have to use the valves all the time or any of the
time. Maybe a good test is if perceptive listeners can tell
when you do and when you don't use them.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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de
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RE: [Hornlist] Re: Brahms Trio
As as sort of addendum to Dave's comment, whatever (horn--or
the use thereof)enables you to best express the musical message you want to
convey--i.e., your best musical expression (including tone quality and
characteristics) of what Brahms has written--is the way to go. The rest is
a technical conundrum.
Shel
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Goldberg
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 8:57 AM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Brahms Trio
Of course if you play the Brahms Trio on a valved horn, you don't have
to use the valves all the time or any of the time. Maybe a good test is
if perceptive listeners can tell when you do and when you don't use them.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
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Re: [Hornlist] Re: Brahms Trio
Of course if you play the Brahms Trio on a valved horn, you don't have
to use the valves all the time or any of the time. Maybe a good test is
if perceptive listeners can tell when you do and when you don't use them.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Brahms Trio
In revision of my letter a few days ago & after reading the Horn Call article about the Trio op.40 I have to repeat, that if Brahms wanted the Waldhorn he was rather thinking about the "playing style" than the definitive use of a valveless horn. The article in the Horn Call gives me some headache. There is a lot of carelessness. The trio op.40 has not been premiered in Karlsruhe in Austria, as there is no Karlsruhe in Austria. There was a Carlsruhe in the old Austrian monarchy, in the Upper-Silesia province, which is now in Poland, but that is a very small village of less than 2.000 soul. Karlsruhe with ist "Hoftheater" is in Germany´s "Baden" province. Yes, there was an early performance there, where Segisser played, but this was not the premiere, which is dated for November 28th, 1865 in Zuerich/Swiss, perhaps Franz Strauss (?) playing. Franz Strauss had played the trio in another private performance at the Karlsruhe Hoftheater on Dec. 7th, 1865 with the violinist Segisser (just ended a call with the Karlsruhe Staatstheater library to get the confirmation soon & the program leaflet perhaps). Hans Richter played the trio in Bale March 26th, 1867, Hans v. Buelow on the piano. Clara Schumann had played it severaltimes since 1866, perhaps with one of the Schuncke brothers on the horn. Fritz Simrock performed it with Brahms on the piano also. He published the trio in 1866. I also have a letter of a witness from Vienna, informing that Josef Schantl (horn), Joseph Helmesberger (violin) & a pianist unknown to the writer of the letter had played it in the Boesendorfer Hall in Vienna without much success. I doubt, if Franz Strauss or Hans Richter had played the trio on "hand horn". Franz Strauss was a Bb-horn-player allready, Hans Richter was occupied rewriting the master Meistersinger score for the publication & thus had not much time to prepare himself on the hand horn for the Brahms trio, Schantl in Vienna played on the single F horn (which he could alter to Bb-pitch). The misunderstanding of the term "stopped" is obvious in the Horn Call article, when Peter Silberman states "stopping can produce a note either a half step or a whole step below an open note or even more in the low register A complete chromatic scale can be produced starting on the second note of the harmonic series ...". Yes, these notes can be produced, but in what QUALITY ? To be used in a concert piece of chamber music ? SORRY, very sorry, this is NOT possible nor is the description of the technique correct. "Stopping" pushes the pitch up for a half step. This is a fact, while the physical acoustical happenings are much too complex to be explained here. The other part of the hand horn technique is "MUTING", sometimes falsely named "half stopping". This is the technique used in the whole classical period. Tuning the pitches down by half closing the bell or just closing a bit more than the regular hand position, e.g. for the noted a1 (from bb1 - flat allready) or fine tuning the f2 from the rather sharp natural 11th harmonic. The rest was lip technique e.g. lipping up the g# (below staff), c1#. C#, g#/ab (just below staff). Considering this & being well trained in this technique will reveal, that most of the passages in this trio op.40 can be executed with a rather balanced horn timbre without these squeaking notes, which are thought by many musicologues being evidence, that Brahms used them as part of colouring the piece. If these writers were capable executing the trio on hand horn, they would not write such nonsense. Brahms eventually camouflaged altered pitches (stopped) when he used them on places where a sfz altered the tone character anyway. And the folksong (p.49 Horn Call left column 5th last line) is not "Hoch auf dem gelben Waben" (would be "High on the Yellow Honeycomb") instead of "Hoch auf dem Gelben Wagen". Well translated correctly, but the Peter Silberman has not double checked things, as he just copied from other authors. He also omitted the "a2" (first ledger line above staff) = step 13 in the row of available natural pitches, he omitted this step 13 in both examples 2 & 3. This is not to be tolerated. Everybody has to know, that written high c3 is the 16th step & the written g2 step no.12. Another critical note is the written a-flat in the middle of the staff. This note is as imperfect as any note might be. And the natural horn technique requires here absolute light playing otherwise resulting in an inacceptable muffled sound. I have played this trio manytimes with natural horn, single F Viennese & the double horn (rarely) and I grew up with the handhorn before taking up the Viennese single F. With this background, I came to the conclusion, that Brahms had not the valveless horn in mind, but the sound of the natural horn with all the natural slurs, the gliding from partial to partial, using the horn in a way similar to the valveless horn just using the valves where inavoidable. It would be much better, if writ
[Hornlist] IHS advisory board elections
How can we vote for "past elections". Look at the ballot & find out why I asked that The error comes TWICE. Did you receive the same ballot for the 2007 elections with the recent horn call Vol.XXXVIII, No.2, February 2008, which must be mailed back not later than April 15th, 2007 ) Oh boy ... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
