RE: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
It would have been "Made in the FRG" or "Made in the GDR." The English translation that is. -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+bgross=airmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Richard V. West Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:06 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! I stand corrected, but for the life of me don't recall the "Made in W. Germany" on any articles as late as 1989, the date of the fall of the Wall. After the Bundesrepublik was recognized in the West, and the German Democratic Republic was a fait accompli in the East, "West Germany" as an official distinction seems to me to have gradually disappeared and only used by TV anchors and general public for ease of identification. As for Russia vs. USSR, you're politically correct there. I made many trips to the (former) USSR in my life and was always careful then about making the distinction between the political reality (USSR) and the culture---at least in the European part (Russian/Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.). I've gotten careless since the dissolution of the USSR, since it's somewhat moot. Richard in Seattle Paul Rincon wrote: > Sorry Richard, but the label "Made in W. Germany" was around until > after the fall of the Berlin wall. I have CDs with "Made in West > Germany" printed on the back, and I don't think those were around in > the 1960's. > > Also, it was the Soviet Union, not Russia, that exerted dominance over > East Germany during that time period. > > Paul ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
Similarly, a colleague of mine plays on an Alex 200 with an ascending 3rd valve. On May 21, 2009, at 6:10 PM, "David A. Jewell" wrote: If you read Mr. Yanchich's book he explains about the HeldenHorn. I do no recall the exact details but Alexander made the Geyer wrap horns only for Mr. Yancich to distribute in the US. It didn't last long, no more than a few years. Alexander has made some interesting "one-offs" as well - a lady I know plays a Geyer wrap Alex that resembles the Model 200 but only the tubing that enters the 1st F valve is at an angle. [the 200 has both 1st valve and change valve tubing curved or bent rather than straight in and out.] Paxmaha From: John Baumgart To: The Horn List Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:08:51 PM Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! t's just a matter of time before you'll be seeing modern Chinese counterfeits of vintage horns and other instruments. That's what the description first made me think of. You'll see them on eBay first, though, initially sold by Chinese sellers using their finest Engrish and questionable facts about a horn being used by Manchester Yankovich, Dennis and the Brain, et al, in their descriptions, and then later from their proxies in their target markets so that people aren't instantly turned off by the item location. Why sell a Parrot for $200 when with a little retooling and artifical wear and tear you could sell it for $1800 as a bargain. Elkhart 8D, anyone? John Baumgart -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Richard V. West Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:32 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase "Made in W. Germany" was used in the tears immediately following World War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the Americans, French, and British---from "East" Germany---the Russian dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. Richard in Seattle Bill Tyler wrote: from: Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre http://www.hornplayer.net/forsale/f8873.html I wonder about the history behind this Alexander model. The player referred to cannot be verified on the web. from: "Sandra Clark" I'm betting the seller is simply butchering Milan Yancich's name... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.baumgart%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jeremy%40sublymerecords.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
I stand corrected, but for the life of me don't recall the "Made in W. Germany" on any articles as late as 1989, the date of the fall of the Wall. After the Bundesrepublik was recognized in the West, and the German Democratic Republic was a fait accompli in the East, "West Germany" as an official distinction seems to me to have gradually disappeared and only used by TV anchors and general public for ease of identification. As for Russia vs. USSR, you're politically correct there. I made many trips to the (former) USSR in my life and was always careful then about making the distinction between the political reality (USSR) and the culture---at least in the European part (Russian/Ukrainian, Belorussian, etc.). I've gotten careless since the dissolution of the USSR, since it's somewhat moot. Richard in Seattle Paul Rincon wrote: Sorry Richard, but the label "Made in W. Germany" was around until after the fall of the Berlin wall. I have CDs with "Made in West Germany" printed on the back, and I don't think those were around in the 1960's. Also, it was the Soviet Union, not Russia, that exerted dominance over East Germany during that time period. Paul ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
Kind of reminds me of a neigbor I knew growing up. He was a coin collector. Rather than go for the rare coins, he'd buy the mixed lots that were around from time to time. One of his neatest sets were counterfit Dutch Indonesian coins. The ranged fron crude lumps of metal to rather good copies. He figured that the crude copies were made by people living well away from areas of Dutch presence. To them the value was more in the metal than anything else. The quality continued to improve and he made a best guess as to who had made them based on socio-economic stuff. -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+william.s.gross=gmail@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+william.s.gross=gmail@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of John Baumgart Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 3:09 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! It's just a matter of time before you'll be seeing modern Chinese counterfeits of vintage horns and other instruments. That's what the description first made me think of. You'll see them on eBay first, though, initially sold by Chinese sellers using their finest Engrish and questionable facts about a horn being used by Manchester Yankovich, Dennis and the Brain, et al, in their descriptions, and then later from their proxies in their target markets so that people aren't instantly turned off by the item location. Why sell a Parrot for $200 when with a little retooling and artifical wear and tear you could sell it for $1800 as a bargain. Elkhart 8D, anyone? John Baumgart -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Richard V. West Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:32 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase "Made in W. Germany" was used in the tears immediately following World War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the Americans, French, and British---from "East" Germany---the Russian dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. Richard in Seattle Bill Tyler wrote: >>> from: Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre >>> >> >> >>> http://www.hornplayer.net/forsale/f8873.html >>> >>> I wonder about the history behind this Alexander >>> >> model. The player referred to cannot be verified on the web. >> >> > > >>> from: "Sandra Clark" >>> >>> I'm betting the seller is simply butchering Milan >>> >> Yancich's name... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.baumgart%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/william.s.gross%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
If you read Mr. Yanchich's book he explains about the HeldenHorn. I do no recall the exact details but Alexander made the Geyer wrap horns only for Mr. Yancich to distribute in the US. It didn't last long, no more than a few years. Alexander has made some interesting "one-offs" as well - a lady I know plays a Geyer wrap Alex that resembles the Model 200 but only the tubing that enters the 1st F valve is at an angle. [the 200 has both 1st valve and change valve tubing curved or bent rather than straight in and out.] Paxmaha From: John Baumgart To: The Horn List Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:08:51 PM Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! t's just a matter of time before you'll be seeing modern Chinese counterfeits of vintage horns and other instruments. That's what the description first made me think of. You'll see them on eBay first, though, initially sold by Chinese sellers using their finest Engrish and questionable facts about a horn being used by Manchester Yankovich, Dennis and the Brain, et al, in their descriptions, and then later from their proxies in their target markets so that people aren't instantly turned off by the item location. Why sell a Parrot for $200 when with a little retooling and artifical wear and tear you could sell it for $1800 as a bargain. Elkhart 8D, anyone? John Baumgart -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Richard V. West Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:32 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase "Made in W. Germany" was used in the tears immediately following World War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the Americans, French, and British---from "East" Germany---the Russian dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. Richard in Seattle Bill Tyler wrote: >>> from: Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre >>> >> >> >>> http://www.hornplayer.net/forsale/f8873.html >>> >>> I wonder about the history behind this Alexander >>> >> model. The player referred to cannot be verified on the >> web. >> >> > > >>> from: "Sandra Clark" >>> >>> I'm betting the seller is simply butchering Milan >>> >> Yancich's name... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.baumgart%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
It's just a matter of time before you'll be seeing modern Chinese counterfeits of vintage horns and other instruments. That's what the description first made me think of. You'll see them on eBay first, though, initially sold by Chinese sellers using their finest Engrish and questionable facts about a horn being used by Manchester Yankovich, Dennis and the Brain, et al, in their descriptions, and then later from their proxies in their target markets so that people aren't instantly turned off by the item location. Why sell a Parrot for $200 when with a little retooling and artifical wear and tear you could sell it for $1800 as a bargain. Elkhart 8D, anyone? John Baumgart -Original Message- From: horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+john.baumgart=comcast@music.memphis.edu] On Behalf Of Richard V. West Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:32 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase "Made in W. Germany" was used in the tears immediately following World War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the Americans, French, and British---from "East" Germany---the Russian dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. Richard in Seattle Bill Tyler wrote: >>> from: Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre >>> >> >> >>> http://www.hornplayer.net/forsale/f8873.html >>> >>> I wonder about the history behind this Alexander >>> >> model. The player referred to cannot be verified on the >> web. >> >> > > >>> from: "Sandra Clark" >>> >>> I'm betting the seller is simply butchering Milan >>> >> Yancich's name... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.baumgart%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
Sorry Richard, but the label "Made in W. Germany" was around until after the fall of the Berlin wall. I have CDs with "Made in West Germany" printed on the back, and I don't think those were around in the 1960's. Also, it was the Soviet Union, not Russia, that exerted dominance over East Germany during that time period. Paul On 5/21/09, Richard V. West wrote: > Whoops! "Tears" instead of "years." Must have been a Freudian slip, > apropos but unintended (I think). > > Richard in Seattle > > Richard V. West wrote: >> The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase >> "Made in W. Germany" was used in the tears immediately following World >> War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the >> Americans, French, and British---from "East" Germany---the Russian >> dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the >> 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. >> >> Richard in Seattle > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/parsifal560sec%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
Whoops! "Tears" instead of "years." Must have been a Freudian slip, apropos but unintended (I think). Richard in Seattle Richard V. West wrote: The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase "Made in W. Germany" was used in the tears immediately following World War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the Americans, French, and British---from "East" Germany---the Russian dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. Richard in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
The seller also has the putative date of manufacture wrong. The phrase "Made in W. Germany" was used in the tears immediately following World War 2 to differentiate the Western zones of Germany---occupied by the Americans, French, and British---from "East" Germany---the Russian dominated part of divided Germany, but was phased out of use in the 1960s. My guess is that the horn was probably made in the 1950s. Richard in Seattle Bill Tyler wrote: from: Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre http://www.hornplayer.net/forsale/f8873.html I wonder about the history behind this Alexander model. The player referred to cannot be verified on the web. from: "Sandra Clark" I'm betting the seller is simply butchering Milan Yancich's name... ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: trios for three horns
Aren't these the horn duets that actually are written for horns? Cheers, Lawrence 2009/5/21 Steven Mumford > > > For some really beautiful, fun and challenging trios, check out > Mozart's trios for basset horns. Not exactly "originals for horn" but at > least they're in F. There are several of them and they're all first rate > musically. The 1st part goes up to high Cs and hangs above the staff quite > a bit. The middle part is more moderate but still challenging and fun to > play. The low part inhabits the bass clef and has all kinds of wicked cool > licks. They'd be suitable for some very accomplished college students. To > me, they sound a heckuva lot cooler on french horn than on basset horn but > I'm biased. There's a recording out there of Chicago Symphony people > playing them on basset horns. > I wonder if the Telemann trios for two flutes would work on horn? > > - Steve Mumford > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/yateslawrence%40googlemail.com > -- Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: trios for three horns
For some really beautiful, fun and challenging trios, check out Mozart's trios for basset horns. Not exactly "originals for horn" but at least they're in F. There are several of them and they're all first rate musically. The 1st part goes up to high Cs and hangs above the staff quite a bit. The middle part is more moderate but still challenging and fun to play. The low part inhabits the bass clef and has all kinds of wicked cool licks. They'd be suitable for some very accomplished college students. To me, they sound a heckuva lot cooler on french horn than on basset horn but I'm biased. There's a recording out there of Chicago Symphony people playing them on basset horns. I wonder if the Telemann trios for two flutes would work on horn? - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] trios for three horns
He's better than cabbage-he doesn't make gratuitous insults. Sent from my iPhone On May 21, 2009, at 7:08 AM, "David A. Jewell" wrote: Cabbage, it seems you have some worthy companionship. Paxmaha From: David Goldberg To: The Horn List Simon Varnam wrote: Thanks, David! I've been wanting to play these for a long time. How about the others; Schneider, Dauprat and Tripperies ? (What nationality is that last guy? :-D ) Simon That last guy is German. You will remember Ferdinand Ries, born in Bonn, student and friend of Beethoven. Little known fact - Ferdinand had three brothers, Frippe Ries, Bippe Ries and Trippe Ries. Not only did they all learn music from Beethoven, they also got Beethoven's lousy handwriting, and so when they signed their compositions, the publisher mistook their names for the titles as we know them today. These whimsical little bits of ear-candy are the only works of the brothers and so they are sometimes referred to as Ries's Pieces. David G ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
Not to mention Mailand. Klaus --- On Thu, 5/21/09, ew...@aol.com wrote: > From: ew...@aol.com > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 2:29 PM > Hey, "Mainz," "Milan," they're both > cities in Europe whose names begin with M, right? > > Emory Waters > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Kevin Carlson > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:03 pm > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation > please! > > > > While the "Yanchia" does appear to be a misspelling of > Yancich, I'm curious > as to who told the seller that "Mainz" was the name of the > original owner. > Mainz, Germany, is the headquarters of Alexander and is > part of the seal > they put on every horn. > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/eww02%40aol.com > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/yorkmasterbbb%40yahoo.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please!
Hey, "Mainz," "Milan," they're both cities in Europe whose names begin with M, right? Emory Waters -Original Message- From: Kevin Carlson To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Wed, 20 May 2009 11:03 pm Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Funny sales history, confirmation please! While the "Yanchia" does appear to be a misspelling of Yancich, I'm curious as to who told the seller that "Mainz" was the name of the original owner. Mainz, Germany, is the headquarters of Alexander and is part of the seal they put on every horn. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/eww02%40aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] trios for three horns
Cabbage, it seems you have some worthy companionship. Paxmaha From: David Goldberg To: The Horn List Simon Varnam wrote: Thanks, David! I've been wanting to play these for a long time. How about the others; Schneider, Dauprat and Tripperies ? (What nationality is that last guy? :-D ) Simon That last guy is German. You will remember Ferdinand Ries, born in Bonn, student and friend of Beethoven. Little known fact - Ferdinand had three brothers, Frippe Ries, Bippe Ries and Trippe Ries. Not only did they all learn music from Beethoven, they also got Beethoven's lousy handwriting, and so when they signed their compositions, the publisher mistook their names for the titles as we know them today. These whimsical little bits of ear-candy are the only works of the brothers and so they are sometimes referred to as Ries's Pieces. David G ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] trios for three horns
Simon Varnam wrote: from: David Goldberg subject: Re: [Hornlist] trios for three horns Bill Gross wrote: I think the Reicha's may even be available on-line. Yes, 24 Horn Trios op.82 at: http://imslp.org/wiki/24_Horn_Trios%2C_Op.82_(Reicha%2C_Anton) Thanks, David! I've been wanting to play these for a long time. How about the others; Schneider, Dauprat and Tripperies ? (What nationality is that last guy? :-D ) Simon That last guy is German. You will remember Ferdinand Ries, born in Bonn, student and friend of Beethoven. Little known fact - Ferdinand had three brothers, Frippe Ries, Bippe Ries and Trippe Ries. Not only did they all learn music from Beethoven, they also got Beethoven's lousy handwriting, and so when they signed their compositions, the publisher mistook their names for the titles as we know them today. These whimsical little bits of ear-candy are the only works of the brothers and so they are sometimes referred to as Ries's Pieces. David G ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
