Re: [Hornlist] Horn Evaluations
In a message dated 4/5/03 10:01:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Fabulous - just as I thought - my Berg doesn't miss lots of notes. >> Double Fab! I see my Geyer didn't make his list either. Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] flutter-tongue
In a message dated 3/25/03 11:11:20 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< I have to play a work that requires me to flutter-tongue and I can't do
it. >>
Block your air supply with your tongue behind upper front teeth, ("T"
position), then blow with your mouth open and see what happens. The air
should just flap your tongue, as the wind makes a flag flap. (The tongue
doesn't do any work in this process)
CORdially, Mansur's Answers
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Re: [Hornlist] Singing through the horn
In a message dated 3/14/03 10:26:18 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << matter of state of mind? >> Without a doubt! ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] good horn tone
In a message dated 3/13/03 2:23:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << This discussion Hans has brought up is an excellent topic. I recently attended the Southeast Horn Workshop held March 7-9 at Columbus State University. >> I'd like to read a report of the SEHW since I didn't get to go this year. No one has mentioned it until now. Thank you. Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Trills in Dvorak 8
In a message dated 3/12/03 1:54:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << The way Clevenger always taught us to do it was to shake the hell out of them. He claimed one could not get the proper affect by a regular lip trill and he rarely proposed a valve trill in that range. I choose the robust lip trill method rather than a true shake unless I've had a pot of coffee! Whatever method you use, it takes MUCHO air to make it work right. >> A good way to get the feel of this is to do it on a D horn (f horn with valves 1&2 held down while you do the shake) I don't really recommend playing that way, just try it a few times to see the character of the process and what effect you'll be after. Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Grand Canard
In a message dated 2/20/03 9:23:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << The 2nd horn realised that the 1st horn was going to start playing at the beginning of a 'tacet number' in Handel's 'Water Music ' (the Harty version with 4 horns). So he whispered "no A" There was no response so he whispered louder "A... no!" As he conductor's baton moved, in desperation the 2nd horn pulled the 1st horn's instrument away from his embouchure - only he pulled too hard and it came out of the player's hands and hit the music stand which was propelled off the riser onto the heads of the clarinet section! >> OK, been there, almost. Mine was worse. We were doing Bizet L'Arlesienne suite with the Campanelle mvmt. At every rehearsal we skipped the strings only movement and went directly to the bells mvmt. with the 3-note repeated pattern dinging away. (The strings rehearsed after the winds left.) Sure enough, on the concert the conductor gave a downbeat for the strings and I pounced on it fortissimo with a lovely e" c" d" (E horn) best imitation of campanelle! [Brought that movement to a screeching halt and re-start without horns! And I made the critique in the papers the next day! ] Yep, played it just the way we had practiced it! Not too smart that evening. CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Asthma and the horn
In a message dated 2/19/03 6:22:18 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Please tell me that horn playing doesn't hurt asthma conditions! Please tell me that there are professional horn players with asthma! All you MD's,r anyone else with this condition, can you offer any advice? Thank you, Brittany Davies, Fort Myers, FL >> It may well be of comfort to know that Phil Farkas was asthmatic. Cordially, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Cup Mute
In a message dated 2/9/03 3:07:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I saw that the 'Stone-Line' mutes have a cup mute for horn. Or is that 'Stoned Line?' Those are the good ol- red and white jobs. >> Neither one. I think it is "Stone Lined." ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Auf Auf
In a message dated 2/6/03 12:43:11 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Robert Dickow wrote:
> Played Auf dem Strom last night, first time I've done it with a tenor
> singer, in E. Went really well, but how can such an easy piece be so
> difficult?
Some reasons:
1) Endurance, as has already been mentioned. There is a huge
energy-output difference between Auf in E and Auf in Eb. In Eb, Auf feels
a lot like a transitional horn concerto that fits between the Mozarts and
Strauss #1.
2) The frustration of cross-fingerings.
3) If you don't have an Amado valve, then there is the added concern of
finding a moment to empty. Playing on the edge of a full tank is
frustrating, and the slightly narrower tube needs more air pressure (or
does it?).
4) The key of E is not a natural horn key. Are there any open notes in
the piece? Aside from E being higher than Eb, with valves down you are
playing a longer horn - higher harmonics in a lower key - and that's more
work.
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
A quite practical solution to playing this piece is to use a single Bb horn
with an A thumb valve replacing the stop tube. This type equipment is more
popular in Europe than in the USA, but is handled quite well for this piece.
Alan Civil was a devotee of this instrument, and many of the top British
players use this equipment. I have an older such Geyer instrument and have
played Auf dem Strom several times with it. With the A valve one can
eliminate a bunch of awkward fingerings with quite satisfactory alternate
fingerings; and the A slide can be pulled a bit in the last momentary rest to
get a more easily tuned low b (concert e) at the very last cadence.
I much prefer this instrument for this music than with a double horn; unless
the double were also equipped with a Stop/A valve.
A general comment, if I may. A single Bb horn should not be considered the
same as just using the Bb side of a double. The single can be mastered to
have a quite characteristic horn tone over the full range of the instrument.
I've posted the names of many fine Bb hornists in past years on the hornlist.
CORdially, Mansur's Answers
>>
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Re: [Hornlist] crooks without horns
In a message dated 2/5/03 7:11:11 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << ohn, No, you are corn~fused... it was not our noble instrument. The correct quote was: "I did not have sax with that woman." Leonard >> It appears we have a contingent of folk who are too young to remember the said president under consideration. Cheers, from a much older hornspieler, P Mansur ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Tuning
Tuning is a matter of PLAYING IN TUNE, not one of getting all the slides exactly so-so. It is a matter of listening and harmonizing and getting intervals correct. Orchestras, bands, and choirs perform more nearly in just intonation than in equal-tempered intonation, except when pushed into equal-temperament by a piano or organ or other fixed pitch instrument. And, as you know, a piano in perfect equal-temperament is equally out-of-tune all over the instrument. The laws of physics and the natural harmony of overtones with the fundamental just do not cooperate with the art of musical instrument playing. A good player can play in tune in any standard type of temperament. You must LISTEN to what you play and relate it to what's going on in the context of the piece. [I feel I must inject a word or two in support of Randy Gardner's concept of spending a lot of time with an electronic tuner. The whole idea is one of matching tones and of being able to bend pitches to specific tones. Before the day of mini electronic tuners I spent hours and hours with my foot on the sostenuto pedal of a piano playing scales, apreggios, and single note attacks to be accompanied with strong sympathetic support from those pitches on the piano, and matching piano pitches.] For most horns, such as the Geyer wraps, Schmidt wraps, and most Kruspe wraps, it is better to tune the Bb side of the horn first. This is because your ONLY adjustment to the open Bb horn is the main tuning slide. (You do NOT have a Bb only tuning slide.) Then, tune the F side with the F only slide (or slides in the case of all Conns and most other double horns) to match the Bb-F open tones. One of the best rationales I know for tuning a double horn can be found in The HORN CALL, Vol. III, NO. 2, Spring, 1974, pages 35-39. The article is "TUNING THE DOUBLE HORN, A Practical Approach" by Stephen L. Seiffert. It is a fine article, well thought out, and eminently practical; it works! Even so, or with any tuning system you develop, the horn will have out of tun e notes that must be bent to pitch. You must learn the tendency notes on your horn and how to correct them, and the slide position is less important than your ability to adjust pitches AS YOU PLAY THEM. If you choose to play a fingering that is innately sharp you must be able to get it down to the place it belongs, and vice versa. These notes can often be played with alternate fingerings which reduce the degree of correction that is essential. In short, the standard double horn is a chromatic collection of open natural horns from the key of low B natural up to Bb alto. All of the idiosyncracies of the flat third overtone, the ambivalent seventh overtone, and the oddities of the upper partials are all there for you to learn about and learn to deal with them. If you don't sing, it may not be too late to begin for you. That's why it so essential to learn to sing your horn! Many horn teachers expound on the "singing" nature of horn playing; and they are successful in this approach. For example, I mention the recent posthumous publication by Marvin Howe, "The Advancing Hornist" subtitled as: "Volume I: The Singing Hornist." There is a definite vocal tint to all excellent horn playing. It should be obvious to all of us just from listening to fine horn players; their instruments "Sing"! CORdially, Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Tuning
In a message dated 1/27/03 2:23:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Froydis Ree Wekre had this party trick where she would pull all the slides as far as they would go, then procede to play a piece with a piano, in tune... >> Yo! I heard her do this little 'circus trick' as she called it during her masterclass at the Banff workshop. She pushed the main slides in all the way and played notes on pitch; then pulled them out as far as possible and played the exact same notes, still on pitch. (And, yes, I can do that, also! And I know lots of players who can do it.) CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] mouthpieces
In a message dated 1/21/03 10:22:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Folks, there is no Magic Bullet. There is a lot of good equipment out there, and some will work better for you than others. But don't get new equipment just weeks before an important performance or audition. You need to have played on something for months before you've mastered it. Don't ruin all the hard work you've put in learning the music by also having to learn new equipment. Purchasing new equipment is as much self evaluation as it is an evaluation of the equipment. "Know thyself."Dave Weiner >> Bravo to Dave for telling it straight out!Reminds me of a little event in my horn life. About 25 years ago I bought a used Alex 102, a compensating ascending horn, from a principal of a fine European orchestra. I had to have a new leadpipe as my mouthpieces wouldn't fit it. It took several of them before I found one that fit and sounded right to me. Even so, it was more than five years later before I felt at home on it enough to play it in public. I had to get to the point that I was confident first with myself, and second, with the horn. Then, I could choose it if I wanted because of what it brought to my playing on a particular piece or concert. Turned out to be a dandy horn; and it was before I got it for this highly respected former owner who had used it for 17 years. It does take time to get completely familiar with an instrument, mouthpiece, leadpipe, what-have-you! CORdially, Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
[Hornlist] Re: [horn] Summer Opportunity (French Horn)
In a message dated 1/20/03 12:37:44 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Connie Galatilis, Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Those who do not hear the music think the dancers mad" >> I like this! Best line I've read on the hornlist in quite some time. Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
[Hornlist] Re: [horn] Summer Opportunity (French Horn)
In a message dated 1/20/03 12:37:44 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Connie Galatilis, Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Those who do not hear the music think the dancers mad" >> I like this! Best line I've read on the hornlist in quite some time. Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
[Hornlist] Re: [horn] Summer Opportunity (French Horn)
In a message dated 1/20/03 12:37:44 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Connie Galatilis, Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Those who do not hear the music think the dancers mad" >> I like this! Best line I've read on the hornlist in quite some time. Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] buying used music
In a message dated 1/18/03 1:42:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Not a bad idea - if you can get anyone to part with it. > Watch for estate sales, college dropouts (music majors), etc Hi all, Don't forget ebay. Regards, Jerry in Kansas City >> And older horn players who have retired or quit playing das horn! And some of us are pretty close to that. Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Beethoven 3
In a message dated 1/18/03 7:59:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Did Beethoven write something that the horn players in Vienna in the early 1800s play, but a skill has been lost, or have orchestras grown in size such that a part that at one time could have been handled by one player now require doubling of parts? >> Yes Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Beethoven Symphony No 3
In a message dated 1/14/03 1:41:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Is this customary that all three horns play this?. >> I think it is quite common. I once played it in a performance in which the conductor used an assistant on each horn part in order to have six horns play this in unison to make a Grande Finale! Cheers, Paul Mansur ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Very warm in Iowa
In a message dated 1/11/03 5:24:08 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << -40 in F. -40 in C. What would that be in Bb? >> Easy! That's first and third valves, of course! Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Red Rot - Oil the Bore!!
Excuse this post, please. John Kowalchuk, please contact me privately. Thanks, Paul Mansur ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Help selecting the best horn
You've had some pretty good advice, I think. I lean a little bit in favor of the Geyer style horns, but you can find some good buys in horns such as the Conn 6D which often costs a bit less simply because demand for it is low. I really recommend that you have your daughter try several horns; and buy it for how it feels and responds to her, and how it sounds. CORdially, Mansur's Answers (Paul Mansur) ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] 2DWK
Mark, the piston valve was around quite a while before WW II. I have an old King single F with piston valves that is brass; no silver plate of any kind on it and no US or USA markings, either. It's a rather decent F horn, by the way. I think it dates back to the 1920s or earlier. A few years ago I sold a "Conical Bore" single F with piston valves to Steve Mumford. It was made in Illinois, but can't recall the city in the neighborhood of Elkhart. Anyway, it was built in about 1910 or so. The strange aspect of this horn is that it has only one moveable slide -- the main tuning slide. The valve tubing was "set at the factory;" fixed and absolutely non-adjustable. I played a Holton GI horn, piston valves, in silverplate for a while when I was in a military academy in 1943. It was a beast; not nearly as good as my King. CORdially, Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Chairs & posture
In a message dated 11/30/02 9:59:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Wenger has a line of excellent chairs at different price points. http://www.wengercorp.com/ I'm about 6'1" (185.4 cm). Their "Symphony" chair in the 19.5" (50cm) frame size is very comfortable and promotes good posture. It's also available in the standard 18.5"(47cm) frame. >> Hi! Is this their standard music chair? I'm 5' 6" and I can't use any of the Wenger chairs I've ever tried. There is a rim on it that cramps my right leg something wonderful! My favorite chairs are upright bentwoods; the old fashioned kind. Cheers! Paul Mansur ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Valves
In a message dated 11/28/02 11:40:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Be careful, because there are different kinds cables, feet, leagues and miles. >> Don't forget long and short tons, troy ounces, and nautical miles and knots. Cheers! Paul Mansur ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] triple tonguing
In a message dated 11/13/02 10:42:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << (anyone ever play a band piece that calls for a cup mute? I have) >> Hi, Leigh. Yes, I have. Humes and Berg sells a cup mute for horn. It's a tad different sound, but BIG! It won't go in a horn case and enjoins one to carry an extra gig bag of some sort to carry it. Maybe it would fit in a Wal Mart plastic sack! The bottom line is that I don't have one and feel no compunction to ever get one. If I played much jazz I might buy one; but at my age that will never happen. CORdially, Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] What is the slide for
In a message dated 11/3/02 7:48:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << There is something special about a fine single Bb horn. >> Amen! or is that Ageyer? Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] What is the slide for
In a message dated 11/3/02 7:48:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << There is something special about a fine single Bb horn. >> Amen! or is that Ageyer? Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] What is the slide for
In a message dated 11/3/02 7:32:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << But I don't know of those who put the information on hornplayers were correct. Is not the purpose of the slide to play the F horn (natural horn) tones as well as other uses? >> They are correct. The F tube extension on a Bb horn means all the valved notes are wy sharp because they are too short. You have to use it mainly for notes below the low b natural - the gap between the F series and the Bb pedal zone. And you have to make up your own fingerings that you can lip into a reasonable intonation. Otherwise it can be used for better pitch than the Bb 1-3 valve combination. Cheers, Mansur's Answers ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Bouche' and cuivre'
In a message dated 11/3/02 4:02:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Hi. The + sign means stopped. "Bouché" also means "stopped." "Cuivré" means "brassy" and has more to do with volume -- play it loud. Play the written c" on the F horn, 2nd valve and close the bell tightly with the right hand. Same procedure and same fingering for the d''+, but play louder; put an edge on the sound. >> Big oops! Sorry, but I forgot to take the Eb part into consideration. Transpose it all down a step, please. Play the written c as Bb, use F horn, valves 1-2; the D as a C, and finger it 2nd valve on F horn; both notes stopped. haste makes waste! Paul Mansur ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
Re: [Hornlist] Bouche' and cuivre'
In a message dated 11/3/02 3:32:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I have a symphonic band part in Eb with - written third space C with a + on the top of the note and written (bouche') - written fourth line D with a + on the top of the note and written Cuivre' I do not understand the difference and how to realize tecnically them. Could somebody help me ? >> Hi. The + sign means stopped. "Bouché" also means "stopped." "Cuivré" means "brassy" and has more to do with volume -- play it loud. Play the written c" on the F horn, 2nd valve and close the bell tightly with the right hand. Same procedure and same fingering for the d''+, but play louder; put an edge on the sound. Don't attempt this on the Bb side; it doesn't work. There are reasons why, but this isn't the time or place to attempt an explanation. CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
