[Hornlist] Re: Tenor Horn in Mahler 7
I'm curious as to what instrument Mahler had in mind (and what instrument is commonly used today, if different) to play the Tenor Horn part for the first movement of Mahler 7. Jonathan, though players outside central Europe to find it hard to accept, Mahler did indeed write the piece for Tenor Horn, an actual and very common instrument hereabouts. It's played with a trombone mouthpiece, and so in symphonic situations is played by a trombonist. It is the middle voiced band instrument that Mahler would have best known -- its predominance is clear in turn-of-the-century firm catalogs and in the large amount of period instruments extant. The German and Austrian ebay sites regularly offer B-flat Tenor Horns from the period (that's where I got my three antique instruments). The link below offers a picture and a 360 degree look of a modern Tenor Horn made by Cerveny. During Mahler's lifetime this Bohemian firm was far and away the largest manufacturer of brass instruments in the Austrian Empire (the Kaiser honored V. F. Cerveny and sons with a visit in 1880). http://www.thomann.de/fr/cerveny_57213pxr.htm The confusion about bugle horns in this tenor-baritone category is a legacy from the instrument makers of the 19th century who competed to outfit Europe's incredibly prolific military bands. In 1855 Heinrich von Gontershausen wrote, Almost every maker is working on a different model. Even worse, most bestow a new name on every instrument on which they make even a small modification. We are so unusually rich in instrument names that musicians themselves often do not know which instrument is meant when they hear of a new one. Middle-voiced bugle horns on offer included the Glycleide, Amateur Voice Horn, Ballad Horn, Cornon, Euphonic Horn, Phonikon, Baryton, Bassoon Horn, Herculesophone, Bassalt, Neophon, Orpheon, Sediphon, Sudraphon, and Hell's Horn (named for its Viennese inventor Ferdinand Hell). This tangle of instruments went the way of the dinosaurs, leaving survivors that included the euphonium (originally called Sommerophone by its Weimar inventor), and the oval-shaped, rotary-valved B-flat Tenor Horn in central Europe (note: the E-flat version of this is called an Alt-Horn in German-speaking lands). When it comes to practice, however, these questions are almost always settled by local tradition. An example: the Tenor Tuba in B-flat of Holst's Planets, unquestionably meant to be played on a euphonium, has long been played in Vienna on a Wagner tuba, and in Paris on a Sax Horn -- convenient local substitutions, but not what the composer had in mind. Likewise, in the UK and US the Tenor Horn part in Mahler's 7th is typically played on euphonium. But whether this substitution is justified by local tradition, player expertise, limited budget, or just the result of misinformation, it is simply not the instrument the composer specified. Bill Melton Hauset (B) / Sinfonie Orchester Aachen (D) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Tenor Horn in Mahler 7
This is great information, William. Thank you. Do you know anything about the Kent horn? It seems to have been played by horn players as well as by trumpet players. Eric James - Original Message From: William Melton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:43:46 AM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Tenor Horn in Mahler 7 I'm curious as to what instrument Mahler had in mind (and what instrument is commonly used today, if different) to play the Tenor Horn part for the first movement of Mahler 7. Jonathan, though players outside central Europe to find it hard to accept, Mahler did indeed write the piece for Tenor Horn, an actual and very common instrument hereabouts. It's played with a trombone mouthpiece, and so in symphonic situations is played by a trombonist. It is the middle voiced band instrument that Mahler would have best known -- its predominance is clear in turn-of-the-century firm catalogs and in the large amount of period instruments extant. The German and Austrian ebay sites regularly offer B-flat Tenor Horns from the period (that's where I got my three antique instruments). The link below offers a picture and a 360 degree look of a modern Tenor Horn made by Cerveny. During Mahler's lifetime this Bohemian firm was far and away the largest manufacturer of brass instruments in the Austrian Empire (the Kaiser honored V. F. Cerveny and sons with a visit in 1880). http://www.thomann.de/fr/cerveny_57213pxr.htm The confusion about bugle horns in this tenor-baritone category is a legacy from the instrument makers of the 19th century who competed to outfit Europe's incredibly prolific military bands. In 1855 Heinrich von Gontershausen wrote, Almost every maker is working on a different model. Even worse, most bestow a new name on every instrument on which they make even a small modification. We are so unusually rich in instrument names that musicians themselves often do not know which instrument is meant when they hear of a new one. Middle-voiced bugle horns on offer included the Glycleide, Amateur Voice Horn, Ballad Horn, Cornon, Euphonic Horn, Phonikon, Baryton, Bassoon Horn, Herculesophone, Bassalt, Neophon, Orpheon, Sediphon, Sudraphon, and Hell's Horn (named for its Viennese inventor Ferdinand Hell). This tangle of instruments went the way of the dinosaurs, leaving survivors that included the euphonium (originally called Sommerophone by its Weimar inventor), and the oval-shaped, rotary-valved B-flat Tenor Horn in central Europe (note: the E-flat version of this is called an Alt-Horn in German-speaking lands). When it comes to practice, however, these questions are almost always settled by local tradition. An example: the Tenor Tuba in B-flat of Holst's Planets, unquestionably meant to be played on a euphonium, has long been played in Vienna on a Wagner tuba, and in Paris on a Sax Horn -- convenient local substitutions, but not what the composer had in mind. Likewise, in the UK and US the Tenor Horn part in Mahler's 7th is typically played on euphonium. But whether this substitution is justified by local tradition, player expertise, limited budget, or just the result of misinformation, it is simply not the instrument the composer specified. Bill Melton Hauset (B) / Sinfonie Orchester Aachen (D) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/eric_d_james%40yahoo.com Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Tenor Horn in Mahler 7
Thank you Bill, that was very informative. Your mention of the saxhorn reminds me of a story related in the autobiography of the clarinettist Jack Brymer, concerning Richard Strauss' last ever concert in London. He was conducting Sinfonia Domestica, which requires huge forces, including 4 saxophones. The fixer took no chances, and booked 4 of London's finest players for the concert. All went well in the rehearsal, but just as everyone was about to go on stage for the concert (which was being broadcast live by the BBC), the fixer, looking rather harried, came up to the saxophone players and said I'm sorry, but Dr. Strauss doesn't want any saxophones. I'm afraid there is nothing I can do except get you seats in the audience for the concert. It later transpired that Strauss had been listening to the BBC Radio 3 presenter describing the symphony, and when the presenter mentioned that the symphony was scored for everything including a kitchen sink and four saxophones, he hit the roof, saying When I put 1, 2, 3, 4 Sax in the score, I meant SaxHORNS, not Saxophones! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: tenor
At 09:51 PM 1/8/2007, you wrote: many others, Mrs. Miller has a large fan base. Did any of you ever hear Joyce Grenfell's Wrong Songs for Wrong Singers (or Songs to Make You Sick)? Simon Along those lines, I'll add the lounge act of Jonathan and Darlene - actually Jo Stafford and Paul Weston. Two real pros who knew exactly what they were doing. Jake ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: tenor
many others, Mrs. Miller has a large fan base. Did any of you ever hear Joyce Grenfell's Wrong Songs for Wrong Singers (or Songs to Make You Sick)? Simon ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Tenor
Now, I had the mostestest of LOVINGS for this voice as it is what I haver always tried to do when I am SINGING on my HORN(S), just like our teachers make the tellings to all of us to do, so, now, since he has made the beggings of money and bookings, I sent him my lottery winnings and called my old pal, Sol Hamhock, who runs the famous booking agency in NY, New York, So Called Artists and Musicians (SCAM) which handles most of the symphony conductors these days, AND, I am mostestest of happiestestests to be making the announcements of the IGGY und OLE WORLD TOUR, featuring the repertoires you all love, including the BRITTEN SERENADE, AUF DEM STROM, the newly discovered version of Kopprasch No. 1 with words, (Why-do-I-al-ways-play-the-horn-like-crap? I-prac-tice-so-los-ex-cerpts-and-I-al-ways-crack, I-want-to-play-the-horn-like-Den-nis-Brain, but-I-don't-want-to-suf-fer-any-prac-tice-pain.) and other soon to be favorites like my arrangements of Broadway Hits, Beatles Tunes and HOUND DOG for the above mentioned combination, so please, pretty please, pretty please with valve oil on it, send me your frequent flyer miles (so we don't have to take the bus) and saved up Motel 6, Perkins, White Tower and Applebees coupons so Ole and I can make this tour and be coming to your town soon!!! Kindestestest of Greetonings and Mostestestestest of Gratulations, Prof. I. M. Gestopftmitscheist Principal 8th horn and Principal 4th Wagner Tuber, Schplittenotendorf am Oedland Staatsoper und Philharmoniker, (ret.) Solo Horn, Bad Corner Brass Quintet Hornist, Broken Winds WW Quintet Solo 4th Horn (Leader, call me for bookings), Smirnoff Horn Quartet Assistant Associate Principal Mellophone, NJ Turnpike Authority Drum and Bugle Corps, The Phantom Lane Changers (summer only) Hornist as Needed, L'Ensemble du Chambre des Palourdes Principal Natural Horn, I Soloisti di Feces Principal Baroque and Hunting Horn, Camarata Vongoleforte Adjunct, Part-time, Arms-length Professor of Horn and Pest Control, Exit 2 Community College, Exit 2, NJ (Ret.) Adjunct, Part-time, Arms-length Professor of Horn, Pest Control and Home Petroleum Studies, Northern New Hampshire Technical Institute, Bad Corner, NH Author, The Kopprasch Connection, Kopprasch for Fun and Profit, Kopprasch for the New Millenium: Where Do you Fit In? Hooked on Hornonics, and What If Saddam Had Given Ouday and Qusay Olds Ambassador or Conn Pan American Single F Horns and a Kopprasch Book Instead of AK 47's, Booze and Porn? Founder, Director and CEO, Universal Institute for the Study, Preservation and Dissemination of Kopprasch Throughout the Solar System Founder and Guru Extraordinaire, Hornaholics Anonymous Grand Poobah of the Koppraschian Kult Director and Program Manager, The All Kopprasch Channel (AKC), Kopprasch Public Radio (KPR) Host of The Kopprasch Factor on AKC and All Kopprasch Considered on KPR Founder of Kopprasch Depot, your one stop shop for all you need! Owner-Operator, Bad Corner Petroleum Laboratory, The Worlds Largest Valve Oil Factory Interplanetarily Known Soloist and Artist of Record Exclusive Amborg, Bundy, Carl Fischer, Olds Ambassador, Sansone and Conn Artist Who Does Not Get His Horns For Free Phone: yes Fax: yes E-mail: yes Website: no Kopprasch will make you sing! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
