[Hornlist] RE: fingering
Hi all , When I think about technique , I think about it as a career extender : one should do whatever makes his playing easier . So when it comes to fingering , I think that the real challenge is to temper the differences - in sound and in intonation . The guide should be the ear only - if 1,2 fingering sounds sharp on under stuff D it does not mean , necessarily , that you should abort this possibility . This fingering is a power full tool when used in the beginning of Strauss con.no. 2 , for instance . but of course , some work has to be done , and awareness has to be developed until it would seem natural to you . Alon ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
> Sorry, sorry, your philosophy is not right
Now look what's happened. I try to remove pedagogical thorn from the
Professor's learned
foot by simply explaining his meaning, and the Teutonic ("supertonic?")
crossbow gets
vectored my way. Professor, this has GOT to be a language thing. In my post I
espoused no
philosophy, and you spent several paragraphs in what I call, "vehement
agreement." In
other words, your content was negative, but you agreed with me. But allow me to
say this:
*** I was merely repeating what YOU had said to begin with! ***
(and also agreeing, BTW)
And I also might add here, I agree with what you said concerning 1st-valve Vs.
open for
the D2 (4th line, F-horn). And not that it matters, but the "deficits" you
mention are not
among my many problems on the horn. This open "D" has an almost surreal
"softness" about
it and, as you can tell, I have the normal problems associated with trying to
use WORDS to
explain the nearly unexplainable feeling one gets from "kissing" a downy-soft
open-D
across the string section. Like explaining the concept of love to a Martian,
"You've felt
it, or you ain't." (proper Southern US grammar, I assure you)
***
> If you depress the 1st valve, the action & bad
> intonation is just transposed for one full step
Well, yes and no. You are correct here but, in defense of whoever should've
been on the
receiving end of your pointed prose (certainly not me... in this instance), you
may
continue adding valves to your "flat 5th harmonic" test and find that the more
valves you
depress, the sharper that 5th harmonic becomes. When fingered 1-2-3 on the
F-side, an A#
just below the staff is not very sharp, is it? This example is--of
course--purely
hypothetical as one would never play A#/Bb with "all three," but since your
translation
slurred my meaning, and you have prosaically painted me into the proverbial
corner, I have
used the logic of your own example to insure that it's Professor Pizka's
footprints in the
shiny, new paint, not mine!
All in good fun though, Professor. No blood, no casualties! Just another rainy
day in the
Southeastern USA. Must get to a "King And I" rehearsal now. The King
(originally played in
the movie by Yul Brenner) is bald, but I still have some left.
jrc
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
Sorry, sorry, your philosophy is not right as it does not take in account the intonation advantage & the beauty of tone & the beauty of lip slurs, typical for the horn - or was it typically ? Intonation & tone quality comes first. If using the 1st valve for both occasions (d2 on F-Horn, g2 on Bb-Horn) means using the no.10 step (real bottom C included as no.1) - written as e2 on the (neutral) series of possible notes. And this step is quite flat on the majority of horns. To prove that, try written a2 on the open Bb-horn, but not on your horn where you are at home and correcting autoimatically by the lip action, No, try it on another horn of another brand & played by another person. You will be surprised how flat open a2 is on the Bb-horn & e2 on the open F-horn. If you depress the 1st valve, the action & bad intonation is just transposed for one full step. The contrary, using open F-Horn for d2 & open Bb-horn for the g2 means using the somewhat sharp nineth step of the natural tones, which gives you the advantage of a lucide note & lucide tone. Playing f2 with 1st valve on the Bb-horn will give you the same advantage (using nineth step and transposed down for one full step). But, - BUT -, using valve 1 for d2 on F-Horn or for g2 on Bb-Horn can help much for certain fingering combinations and for certain tonalities or for certain instrument combinations. I use them also sometimes in minor keys. There is one great deficit within the whole horn community: 1) Hanging on one side of the double horn & using the other side of the double horn just for very, very few notes. 2) hanging on the old rule, using F below a certain point & using Bb higher Both methodes are wrong absolutely. We have the double horn & should use it all over the range of the horn taking advantage of better sounding notes, better intonation, easier technique, better response. It all depends upon your horn & your embouchure and the musical text. Sometimes, unorthodox fingering helps a lot. Sometimes switching back & forth between the two sides, even middle in a scale or twice in a scale, can help much for clarity or beauty. But to explore these facts, it costs a lot of time & consequent practise or consequent playing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray & Sonja Crenshaw Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:28 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question > Hans, I don't see why you are answering a question from someone > playing a single F horn with Bb fingerings? Maybe I missed something, but it made sense to me to liken a 4th line "D" played on F-side's 1st valve to "G" above the staff played on the Bb-side's 1st valve. Think, "What's good for the goose..." I would belabor my point by lecturing on how those two notes--on those two sides of a horn--are equivalents, but I reckon everyone who cares about it already knows, and everyone who does not isn't paying attention anyway. Pressing 1st valve for fourth line "D" on an F horn gives one something to do while waiting for a good slur to emerge (betwixt the open C, D, & E) but it's good to know that one should get good at moving around those notes without using valve action. The comment about playing this fingering against a section of Bb-1st&2nd'ers was well taken. Moving around the harmonic series (either open F, or choose a key by depressing the valve(s) of choice) of the F-horn was something Dave Krehbiel used to push on me, and something I figured I could do 'til I heard him do it. He impressed upon me the fact that this is HOW THE HORN IS PLAYED, and one mustn't get too far away from that concept. Use the valves to ASSIST in re-creating this proper technique, and not allowing them to become the technique proper. Another cool morning in upstate South Carolina, but the Solar Welding Torch of summer is surely biding its time in the skies, waiting for the first time I blink so it can sneak in and broil my little corner of the world. Stay safe, play well, and do NOT pull the trigger unless you really mean it. (yes, horn-related, and not Fort Sumter. Although...) jrc ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
> Hans, I don't see why you are answering a question from someone > playing a single F horn with Bb fingerings? Maybe I missed something, but it made sense to me to liken a 4th line "D" played on F-side's 1st valve to "G" above the staff played on the Bb-side's 1st valve. Think, "What's good for the goose..." I would belabor my point by lecturing on how those two notes--on those two sides of a horn--are equivalents, but I reckon everyone who cares about it already knows, and everyone who does not isn't paying attention anyway. Pressing 1st valve for fourth line "D" on an F horn gives one something to do while waiting for a good slur to emerge (betwixt the open C, D, & E) but it's good to know that one should get good at moving around those notes without using valve action. The comment about playing this fingering against a section of Bb-1st&2nd'ers was well taken. Moving around the harmonic series (either open F, or choose a key by depressing the valve(s) of choice) of the F-horn was something Dave Krehbiel used to push on me, and something I figured I could do 'til I heard him do it. He impressed upon me the fact that this is HOW THE HORN IS PLAYED, and one mustn't get too far away from that concept. Use the valves to ASSIST in re-creating this proper technique, and not allowing them to become the technique proper. Another cool morning in upstate South Carolina, but the Solar Welding Torch of summer is surely biding its time in the skies, waiting for the first time I blink so it can sneak in and broil my little corner of the world. Stay safe, play well, and do NOT pull the trigger unless you really mean it. (yes, horn-related, and not Fort Sumter. Although...) jrc ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
Because this is the same situation on F or Bb, but just shifted. How about the c#2 on the F-Horn ? By the way, these my fingerings are the ones taught in Vienna since the invention of the valve horn. And it is much better to use the dogmatic right fingerings & adjust them here & there according to the particular situation, then to work with alternated fingerings from the beginning. But this technique requires a profound knowledge of all possible fingerings. That´s exactly the point where we meet again in peace. But it is a pity, that many horn players or want to be horn players just know one set of fingerings due to the wrong teachers. So I blame those just knowing the Bb- & those knowing just the F-fingerings or those who know F-fingerings up to written c2 & Bb-fingerings above that only. These nuances of d2 with 1st or as open notes on the F-Horn are just hypothetic & come to value only for the real expert horn players, not with those who struggle permanently hitting the right notes. Happy Easter Richard. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 7:24 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question Hans, I dont see why you are answering a question from someone playing a single F horn with Bb fingerings? I teach a variety of fingerings and I teach the adjustments made by the hand in the bell to compensate for various differences between the natural overtones and equal temperament and various harmonic adjustments one has to make to sound in tune. You can not just say, for example this note is flat because it can be played in many different ways and the hand can be adjusted! Hans writes Do you also teach playing written g2 on 1st when using the Bb-side ? Arent both notes, written d2 on the F-side & written g2 on the Bb-side a bit flat if played with 1st on the respective sides, because using the 1oth (flat) step in the harmonic series ? Why not taking advantage of the nineth harmonic step as open notes on both sides, which is very lucid ? In Vienna, they teach using the nineth step for the d2. Burdick wrote Yes, I teach the D as 1st valve unless you want something really smooth and want the C-D-E on the open F horn Original question: "At my most recent lesson . . I'm playing a single F horn, I was playing all three as open. Chris suggested I finger the D with the first valve held down, Richard Burdick 1st Horn Regina Symphony Regina, SK Canada Certified Konzertstuckable ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
YES, YES, YES, YES ! Exactly what I meant. How about the c#2 on the F-Side ? == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pandolfi, Orlando Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:59 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question The bottom line is that it is good to be aware of both, and have the facility to use each. Often times the use of a valve in between two open notes can better articulate a rapid passage. Also there are times when harmonic intonation is improved when two players are on the same "crook". There are times when, in particular acoustic situations, the harmonics that resound as a result of a harmonic interval collide, causing a special type of intonation problem that is not easily fixed simply by tuning the played interval. Matching fingering can often fix the problem. I agree with Hans in that I wouldn't normally "sit" on one of the abovementioned notes and prefer the ninth harmonic, but have often used first valve on each of those notes in situations that warranted it. Musical sense should always prevail. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] u]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:10 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question Do you also teach playing written g2 on 1st when using the Bb-side ? Aren´t both notes, written d2 on the F-side & written g2 on the Bb-side a bit flat if played with 1st on the respective sides, because using the 1oth (flat) step in the harmonic series ? Why not taking advantage of the nineth harmonic step as open notes on both sides, which is very lucid ? In Vienna, they teach using the nineth step for the d2. Happy Easter. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 8:12 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question YEs, I teach the D as 1st valve unless you want something really smooth and want the C-D-E on the open F horn Richard Burdick 1st Horn Regina Symphony Regina, SK Canada Certified Konzertstuckable "At my most recent lesson, I was playing a passage from early on in the Horner method that started on third space C and went up C-D-E. Because I'm playing a single F horn, I was playing all three as open. Chris suggested I finger the D with the first valve held down, a fingering which I was aware of but hadn't really used much (ninth partial of concert E-flat instead of 8th partial of F). Playing around with this on my own for the first few days after the lesson, I decided I liked this fingering, and since then I've changed my default fingering for written fourth line D from open to 1. My guess is that this works because, for lack of a better way to put it, it makes the targets further apart. I'm curious to know if this agrees with others' experience. Thanks. -S-" ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40dee rfield.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
I do that all the time - in fact I love to play F horn all the way up to G and higher in live performances if it's suitable. Unfortunately - in ensemble playing most people don't play on the F side - so tuning to a first player who is using D 12 on the Bb side while you're playing open on the F drives them haywire. "Why is that not sharp???" So that leads me to wonder why so many out of tune fingerings become part of tradition. -William In a message dated 3/27/2005 3:11:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you also teach playing written g2 on 1st when using the Bb-side ? Aren´t both notes, written d2 on the F-side & written g2 on the Bb-side a bit flat if played with 1st on the respective sides, because using the 1oth (flat) step in the harmonic series ? Why not taking advantage of the nineth harmonic step as open notes on both sides, which is very lucid ? In Vienna, they teach using the nineth step for the d2. Happy Easter. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
Hans, I dont see why you are answering a question from someone playing a single F horn with Bb fingerings? I teach a variety of fingerings and I teach the adjustments made by the hand in the bell to compensate for various differences between the natural overtones and equal temperament and various harmonic adjustments one has to make to sound in tune. You can not just say, for example this note is flat because it can be played in many different ways and the hand can be adjusted! Hans writes Do you also teach playing written g2 on 1st when using the Bb-side ? Arent both notes, written d2 on the F-side & written g2 on the Bb-side a bit flat if played with 1st on the respective sides, because using the 1oth (flat) step in the harmonic series ? Why not taking advantage of the nineth harmonic step as open notes on both sides, which is very lucid ? In Vienna, they teach using the nineth step for the d2. Burdick wrote Yes, I teach the D as 1st valve unless you want something really smooth and want the C-D-E on the open F horn Original question: "At my most recent lesson . . I'm playing a single F horn, I was playing all three as open. Chris suggested I finger the D with the first valve held down, Richard Burdick 1st Horn Regina Symphony Regina, SK Canada Certified Konzertstuckable ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
Speaking strictly as a rank no-talent amateur, hooray for any alternate fingering or even fake-fingering that can simplify the clean, secure, musical execution of a vexingly tricky technical passage. Smoke on your pipe & put that it. -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~~ The bottom line is that it is good to be aware of both, and have the facility to use each. ***** Musical sense should always prevail. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.3 - Release Date: 3/25/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
The bottom line is that it is good to be aware of both, and have the facility to use each. Often times the use of a valve in between two open notes can better articulate a rapid passage. Also there are times when harmonic intonation is improved when two players are on the same "crook". There are times when, in particular acoustic situations, the harmonics that resound as a result of a harmonic interval collide, causing a special type of intonation problem that is not easily fixed simply by tuning the played interval. Matching fingering can often fix the problem. I agree with Hans in that I wouldn't normally "sit" on one of the abovementioned notes and prefer the ninth harmonic, but have often used first valve on each of those notes in situations that warranted it. Musical sense should always prevail. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:10 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question Do you also teach playing written g2 on 1st when using the Bb-side ? Aren´t both notes, written d2 on the F-side & written g2 on the Bb-side a bit flat if played with 1st on the respective sides, because using the 1oth (flat) step in the harmonic series ? Why not taking advantage of the nineth harmonic step as open notes on both sides, which is very lucid ? In Vienna, they teach using the nineth step for the d2. Happy Easter. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 8:12 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question YEs, I teach the D as 1st valve unless you want something really smooth and want the C-D-E on the open F horn Richard Burdick 1st Horn Regina Symphony Regina, SK Canada Certified Konzertstuckable "At my most recent lesson, I was playing a passage from early on in the Horner method that started on third space C and went up C-D-E. Because I'm playing a single F horn, I was playing all three as open. Chris suggested I finger the D with the first valve held down, a fingering which I was aware of but hadn't really used much (ninth partial of concert E-flat instead of 8th partial of F). Playing around with this on my own for the first few days after the lesson, I decided I liked this fingering, and since then I've changed my default fingering for written fourth line D from open to 1. My guess is that this works because, for lack of a better way to put it, it makes the targets further apart. I'm curious to know if this agrees with others' experience. Thanks. -S-" ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40deerfield.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
Do you also teach playing written g2 on 1st when using the Bb-side ? Aren´t both notes, written d2 on the F-side & written g2 on the Bb-side a bit flat if played with 1st on the respective sides, because using the 1oth (flat) step in the harmonic series ? Why not taking advantage of the nineth harmonic step as open notes on both sides, which is very lucid ? In Vienna, they teach using the nineth step for the d2. Happy Easter. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 8:12 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Fingering question YEs, I teach the D as 1st valve unless you want something really smooth and want the C-D-E on the open F horn Richard Burdick 1st Horn Regina Symphony Regina, SK Canada Certified Konzertstuckable "At my most recent lesson, I was playing a passage from early on in the Horner method that started on third space C and went up C-D-E. Because I'm playing a single F horn, I was playing all three as open. Chris suggested I finger the D with the first valve held down, a fingering which I was aware of but hadn't really used much (ninth partial of concert E-flat instead of 8th partial of F). Playing around with this on my own for the first few days after the lesson, I decided I liked this fingering, and since then I've changed my default fingering for written fourth line D from open to 1. My guess is that this works because, for lack of a better way to put it, it makes the targets further apart. I'm curious to know if this agrees with others' experience. Thanks. -S-" ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Fingering question
YEs, I teach the D as 1st valve unless you want something really smooth and want the C-D-E on the open F horn Richard Burdick 1st Horn Regina Symphony Regina, SK Canada Certified Konzertstuckable "At my most recent lesson, I was playing a passage from early on in the Horner method that started on third space C and went up C-D-E. Because I'm playing a single F horn, I was playing all three as open. Chris suggested I finger the D with the first valve held down, a fingering which I was aware of but hadn't really used much (ninth partial of concert E-flat instead of 8th partial of F). Playing around with this on my own for the first few days after the lesson, I decided I liked this fingering, and since then I've changed my default fingering for written fourth line D from open to 1. My guess is that this works because, for lack of a better way to put it, it makes the targets further apart. I'm curious to know if this agrees with others' experience. Thanks. -S-" ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering
But I have written all textes AND translated them by myself, have taken all the pictures & videos & sound recordings by myself, done the many MIDI files etc. - this is really a lot of work, a work going over years. Thanks for offering help. . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > OK That sounds a little better however to fill an entire site with a gig of > content is an awful lot :) > > You said the site was around 1GB though, which is very confusing. Web "pages" > themselves should normally be around 40-70k max for the data, graphics, etc. > that load at once, so when you said 1GB I did think that sounded rather odd. > > In fact as far as webspace itself goes 1GB isn't that much. I have a provider > right now that gives me 8GB's of webspace and about 80GB's of bandwidth a > month across 5 domains, all for 100 bucks a month. > > Bandwidth is important too by the way, and expensive. Just because you have > space doesn't neccessarily mean you have bandwidth :) Some sites, like Horn > sites I'm sure, dont get the gobs of traffic somthing like a video game site > might get so you should be fine though, after all it does take a lot of > traffic to run past 60 or so GB's a month. > > You see it is very simple for webhosts to provide the space for your site, > since not very many people use that much space and its inexpensive. However > Bandwidth is what usually costs an arm and a leg. > > If you have 10GB's of data on a server (and I've gone as far up as 40GB's on > one site) the host usually will not charge you very much until you start > pulling bandwidth. The highest a month I've ever gone is around 700GB's a > month and I'm not comfortable telling what I was paying over the net for that > even though it was an incredible deal. > > Hey if you need any help with webspace or websites let me know. I've been > doing them since 1996, and I've learned an awful lot :) > > -William > > In a message dated 11/7/2002 11:19:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > Subj:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering > > Date:11/7/2002 11:19:40 PM Pacific Standard Time > > From:mailto:Hans.Pizka@;t-online.de">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Reply-to:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > 1 GB, that is the total space I have for my WebSite. If you have the right > > provider, it does not cost much, about 40.-$ a month, even less. > > --- > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > > > -- > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > Woah one GB? Hope you meant around 20k or something for a page size... > > > > > > Anyways you are right about that Hans. I think Steven Mead summed it best > > > when he stated: > > > > > > "Brass playing is quite simple once you get the basics right" > > > > > > -William > > > > > > In a message dated 11/7/2002 11:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > > > > > Subj:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering > > > > Date:11/7/2002 11:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time > > > > From:mailto:Hans.Pizka@;t-online.de">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Reply-to:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Playing off-the-knee (seating position upright, holding the horn free) > > > > gives the player the chance, to bring the leadpipe in ideal position, > > or > > > > near to the ideal position verse the axis of the front teeth (if they > > in > > > > correct position) to have the airstream or air column in an unbroken > > way, > > > > streight forward through mouthpiece & leadpipe into the horn. > > > > > > > > Leaning on to the horn, perhaps head leaning verse the right shoulder, > > > > forms not only stress in the neck (play this way & wait thirty year to > > feel > > > > it, when it is irrepairable) but also squeezes the airstream and sends > > the > > > > airstream (longitudinal waves) against the inner wall of the mouthpiece > > & > >
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] OK That sounds a little better however to fill an entire site with a gig of content is an awful lot :) You said the site was around 1GB though, which is very confusing. Web "pages" themselves should normally be around 40-70k max for the data, graphics, etc. that load at once, so when you said 1GB I did think that sounded rather odd. In fact as far as webspace itself goes 1GB isn't that much. I have a provider right now that gives me 8GB's of webspace and about 80GB's of bandwidth a month across 5 domains, all for 100 bucks a month. Bandwidth is important too by the way, and expensive. Just because you have space doesn't neccessarily mean you have bandwidth :) Some sites, like Horn sites I'm sure, dont get the gobs of traffic somthing like a video game site might get so you should be fine though, after all it does take a lot of traffic to run past 60 or so GB's a month. You see it is very simple for webhosts to provide the space for your site, since not very many people use that much space and its inexpensive. However Bandwidth is what usually costs an arm and a leg. If you have 10GB's of data on a server (and I've gone as far up as 40GB's on one site) the host usually will not charge you very much until you start pulling bandwidth. The highest a month I've ever gone is around 700GB's a month and I'm not comfortable telling what I was paying over the net for that even though it was an incredible deal. Hey if you need any help with webspace or websites let me know. I've been doing them since 1996, and I've learned an awful lot :) -William In a message dated 11/7/2002 11:19:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Subj:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering > Date:11/7/2002 11:19:40 PM Pacific Standard Time > From:mailto:Hans.Pizka@;t-online.de">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reply-to:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent from the Internet > > > > 1 GB, that is the total space I have for my WebSite. If you have the right > provider, it does not cost much, about 40.-$ a month, even less. > --- > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Woah one GB? Hope you meant around 20k or something for a page size... > > > > Anyways you are right about that Hans. I think Steven Mead summed it best > > when he stated: > > > > "Brass playing is quite simple once you get the basics right" > > > > -William > > > > In a message dated 11/7/2002 11:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > > Subj:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering > > > Date:11/7/2002 11:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time > > > From:mailto:Hans.Pizka@;t-online.de">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Reply-to:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > Playing off-the-knee (seating position upright, holding the horn free) > > > gives the player the chance, to bring the leadpipe in ideal position, > or > > > near to the ideal position verse the axis of the front teeth (if they > in > > > correct position) to have the airstream or air column in an unbroken > way, > > > streight forward through mouthpiece & leadpipe into the horn. > > > > > > Leaning on to the horn, perhaps head leaning verse the right shoulder, > > > forms not only stress in the neck (play this way & wait thirty year to > feel > > > it, when it is irrepairable) but also squeezes the airstream and sends > the > > > airstream (longitudinal waves) against the inner wall of the mouthpiece > & > > > bouncing back in the leadpipe & again against the inner wall. > > > > > > All this stress in the lips, the neck, the airstream affects the purity > of > > > the sound & the intonation special in the higher zones, also in the > bass > > > region where many of these players get sharp while getting flat, very > flat > > > in the higher region. > > > > > > Try it & compare the result. It does not work within one day, but you > will > > > notice the change after very few days. Try it with a mirror, otherwise > you > > > return to the same habit. > > > > > > If you hold the horn correct, fatigue in the holding apparatus (body) > will > > > be
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering
1 GB, that is the total space I have for my WebSite. If you have the right provider, it does not cost much, about 40.-$ a month, even less. --- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Woah one GB? Hope you meant around 20k or something for a page size... > > Anyways you are right about that Hans. I think Steven Mead summed it best > when he stated: > > "Brass playing is quite simple once you get the basics right" > > -William > > In a message dated 11/7/2002 11:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > Subj:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering > > Date:11/7/2002 11:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time > > From:mailto:Hans.Pizka@;t-online.de">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Reply-to:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > Playing off-the-knee (seating position upright, holding the horn free) > > gives the player the chance, to bring the leadpipe in ideal position, or > > near to the ideal position verse the axis of the front teeth (if they in > > correct position) to have the airstream or air column in an unbroken way, > > streight forward through mouthpiece & leadpipe into the horn. > > > > Leaning on to the horn, perhaps head leaning verse the right shoulder, > > forms not only stress in the neck (play this way & wait thirty year to feel > > it, when it is irrepairable) but also squeezes the airstream and sends the > > airstream (longitudinal waves) against the inner wall of the mouthpiece & > > bouncing back in the leadpipe & again against the inner wall. > > > > All this stress in the lips, the neck, the airstream affects the purity of > > the sound & the intonation special in the higher zones, also in the bass > > region where many of these players get sharp while getting flat, very flat > > in the higher region. > > > > Try it & compare the result. It does not work within one day, but you will > > notice the change after very few days. Try it with a mirror, otherwise you > > return to the same habit. > > > > If you hold the horn correct, fatigue in the holding apparatus (body) will > > be normal, but less than you had before. > > > > But if you sit on you chair like a dough, there is no help. Sitting upright > > means also to be alert, to be concentrated. Change your habit & experience > > the great improvement (not only) for your playing. > > > > Interesting, why people just pick this from my message, as I intended to > > illustrate the "strange fingerings" as a result of false training. Another > > matter to think about, or ? > > > > Thank you, Robert, for your illustration of the positive change you > > experienced, by lifting the horn up from the knee. > > > > Jay Kosta asked about a special right hand position for the high register. > > There is no, if you have a correct right hand. The classical position is > > like gripping a tennis ball, fingers a bit spread each other , but hand > > inserted into the bell in most relaxed way. This enables a quick change of > > the position if necessary for fine tuning, mostly necessary if playing > > along with other wind instruments, as the horn mostly acts as the supporter > > e.g. for clarinet or flute. > > > > And, Jay, the less you change your (hopefully upright) position while you > > play, the better. > > > > > > Kindest greetings from cold & wet Munich expecting snow tonight. Just > > arrived home after todays Siegfried 1st act & LONG CALL once more (direct > > radio transmission). My special Siegfried page will be up tomorrow (divided > > into single scenes for easier loading), also my new pages about the > > Viennese Horn & the Viennese players, incl. a lot of video clips & sound > > clips. All is bilingual now. The "sigfrid" page is still in English only, > > but has some video clips of actual LONG CALL performances & some audio > > clips also. A "not to happen" LONG CALL , MIDI written with FINALE & the > > "Siegfried Fantasy" by Karl Stiegler (MIDI)is included. > > > > Many pages are now reorganised with Frontpage, bilingual, all updated one > > by one. The publication pages will need some new "make-up" until this > > weekend & are all to be found on the same 1 GB site, which I think, is more > > convenient for all visitors. > > &
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Woah one GB? Hope you meant around 20k or something for a page size... Anyways you are right about that Hans. I think Steven Mead summed it best when he stated: "Brass playing is quite simple once you get the basics right" -William In a message dated 11/7/2002 11:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Subj:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering > Date:11/7/2002 11:48:00 AM Pacific Standard Time > From:mailto:Hans.Pizka@;t-online.de">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reply-to:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To:mailto:horn@;music.memphis.edu">[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent from the Internet > > > > Playing off-the-knee (seating position upright, holding the horn free) > gives the player the chance, to bring the leadpipe in ideal position, or > near to the ideal position verse the axis of the front teeth (if they in > correct position) to have the airstream or air column in an unbroken way, > streight forward through mouthpiece & leadpipe into the horn. > > Leaning on to the horn, perhaps head leaning verse the right shoulder, > forms not only stress in the neck (play this way & wait thirty year to feel > it, when it is irrepairable) but also squeezes the airstream and sends the > airstream (longitudinal waves) against the inner wall of the mouthpiece & > bouncing back in the leadpipe & again against the inner wall. > > All this stress in the lips, the neck, the airstream affects the purity of > the sound & the intonation special in the higher zones, also in the bass > region where many of these players get sharp while getting flat, very flat > in the higher region. > > Try it & compare the result. It does not work within one day, but you will > notice the change after very few days. Try it with a mirror, otherwise you > return to the same habit. > > If you hold the horn correct, fatigue in the holding apparatus (body) will > be normal, but less than you had before. > > But if you sit on you chair like a dough, there is no help. Sitting upright > means also to be alert, to be concentrated. Change your habit & experience > the great improvement (not only) for your playing. > > Interesting, why people just pick this from my message, as I intended to > illustrate the "strange fingerings" as a result of false training. Another > matter to think about, or ? > > Thank you, Robert, for your illustration of the positive change you > experienced, by lifting the horn up from the knee. > > Jay Kosta asked about a special right hand position for the high register. > There is no, if you have a correct right hand. The classical position is > like gripping a tennis ball, fingers a bit spread each other , but hand > inserted into the bell in most relaxed way. This enables a quick change of > the position if necessary for fine tuning, mostly necessary if playing > along with other wind instruments, as the horn mostly acts as the supporter > e.g. for clarinet or flute. > > And, Jay, the less you change your (hopefully upright) position while you > play, the better. > > > Kindest greetings from cold & wet Munich expecting snow tonight. Just > arrived home after todays Siegfried 1st act & LONG CALL once more (direct > radio transmission). My special Siegfried page will be up tomorrow (divided > into single scenes for easier loading), also my new pages about the > Viennese Horn & the Viennese players, incl. a lot of video clips & sound > clips. All is bilingual now. The "sigfrid" page is still in English only, > but has some video clips of actual LONG CALL performances & some audio > clips also. A "not to happen" LONG CALL , MIDI written with FINALE & the > "Siegfried Fantasy" by Karl Stiegler (MIDI)is included. > > Many pages are now reorganised with Frontpage, bilingual, all updated one > by one. The publication pages will need some new "make-up" until this > weekend & are all to be found on the same 1 GB site, which I think, is more > convenient for all visitors. > > If you find some link not working, it would be nice to point me to. > > Some other "picture" pages from my Asian travels will be up soon, exciting > pictures from Angkor, Nepal, Myanmar & Thailand, including links for > travellers & hints for travellers, historic comments etc. not copied from > books but my own experience & text. > ... > "Robert Dickow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > > In 1973 I switched to off-the-knee playing. I noticed an > > immediate tendency to use less pressure, and I got > > better breathing. (Bei
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering
Playing off-the-knee (seating position upright, holding the horn free) gives the player the chance, to bring the leadpipe in ideal position, or near to the ideal position verse the axis of the front teeth (if they in correct position) to have the airstream or air column in an unbroken way, streight forward through mouthpiece & leadpipe into the horn. Leaning on to the horn, perhaps head leaning verse the right shoulder, forms not only stress in the neck (play this way & wait thirty year to feel it, when it is irrepairable) but also squeezes the airstream and sends the airstream (longitudinal waves) against the inner wall of the mouthpiece & bouncing back in the leadpipe & again against the inner wall. All this stress in the lips, the neck, the airstream affects the purity of the sound & the intonation special in the higher zones, also in the bass region where many of these players get sharp while getting flat, very flat in the higher region. Try it & compare the result. It does not work within one day, but you will notice the change after very few days. Try it with a mirror, otherwise you return to the same habit. If you hold the horn correct, fatigue in the holding apparatus (body) will be normal, but less than you had before. But if you sit on you chair like a dough, there is no help. Sitting upright means also to be alert, to be concentrated. Change your habit & experience the great improvement (not only) for your playing. Interesting, why people just pick this from my message, as I intended to illustrate the "strange fingerings" as a result of false training. Another matter to think about, or ? Thank you, Robert, for your illustration of the positive change you experienced, by lifting the horn up from the knee. Jay Kosta asked about a special right hand position for the high register. There is no, if you have a correct right hand. The classical position is like gripping a tennis ball, fingers a bit spread each other , but hand inserted into the bell in most relaxed way. This enables a quick change of the position if necessary for fine tuning, mostly necessary if playing along with other wind instruments, as the horn mostly acts as the supporter e.g. for clarinet or flute. And, Jay, the less you change your (hopefully upright) position while you play, the better. Kindest greetings from cold & wet Munich expecting snow tonight. Just arrived home after todays Siegfried 1st act & LONG CALL once more (direct radio transmission). My special Siegfried page will be up tomorrow (divided into single scenes for easier loading), also my new pages about the Viennese Horn & the Viennese players, incl. a lot of video clips & sound clips. All is bilingual now. The "sigfrid" page is still in English only, but has some video clips of actual LONG CALL performances & some audio clips also. A "not to happen" LONG CALL , MIDI written with FINALE & the "Siegfried Fantasy" by Karl Stiegler (MIDI)is included. Many pages are now reorganised with Frontpage, bilingual, all updated one by one. The publication pages will need some new "make-up" until this weekend & are all to be found on the same 1 GB site, which I think, is more convenient for all visitors. If you find some link not working, it would be nice to point me to. Some other "picture" pages from my Asian travels will be up soon, exciting pictures from Angkor, Nepal, Myanmar & Thailand, including links for travellers & hints for travellers, historic comments etc. not copied from books but my own experience & text. ... "Robert Dickow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > In 1973 I switched to off-the-knee playing. I noticed an > immediate tendency to use less pressure, and I got > better breathing. (Being tall with a long torso, I was > unknowingly hunching over slightly to reach the > lower elevation of my horn.) Playing off the knee > helped my posture. My intonation is unaffected. I still > have a mobile right hand. There is no fatigue from > the weight of the horn; I can hold mine elevated for > many hours with no complaint whatsoever. > > I'm not sure what you mean by '...adjust their upper-body > posture for the range they are playing?' I don't think that > there should be a change in body posture with regard to > register, no matter what on-or-off-the-knee posture one > chooses. > > Robert Dickow. > > -- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [Hornlist] Re: fingering > > Date: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:35 AM > > > > Prof.Hans Pizka writes: > > >... > > > If the player plays on the knee or leans on his horn, no wonder that > the high register gets flat. > &
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fingering
In 1973 I switched to off-the-knee playing. I noticed an immediate tendency to use less pressure, and I got better breathing. (Being tall with a long torso, I was unknowingly hunching over slightly to reach the lower elevation of my horn.) Playing off the knee helped my posture. My intonation is unaffected. I still have a mobile right hand. There is no fatigue from the weight of the horn; I can hold mine elevated for many hours with no complaint whatsoever. I'm not sure what you mean by '...adjust their upper-body posture for the range they are playing?' I don't think that there should be a change in body posture with regard to register, no matter what on-or-off-the-knee posture one chooses. Robert Dickow. -- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Hornlist] Re: fingering > Date: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:35 AM > > Prof.Hans Pizka writes: > >... > > If the player plays on the knee or leans on his horn, no wonder that the high register gets flat. > >... > > I would like to hear more about Hans' comment - is this a well known problem > with playing on-the-knee(leg)? What posture and/or righthand technique is > used for good high register intonation by on-the-leg players? Do OFF-the-leg > players adjust their upper-body posture for the range they are playing? > > Jay Kosta > Endwell NY USA > ___ > Horn mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
[Hornlist] Re: fingering
Prof.Hans Pizka writes: ... If the player plays on the knee or leans on his horn, no wonder that the high register gets flat. ... I would like to hear more about Hans' comment - is this a well known problem with playing on-the-knee(leg)? What posture and/or righthand technique is used for good high register intonation by on-the-leg players? Do OFF-the-leg players adjust their upper-body posture for the range they are playing? Jay Kosta Endwell NY USA ___ Horn mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn
