Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing (NHR)

[billbamberg]

Good and evil is a concept most often used to motivate individuals to commit 
atrocities that would otherwise be abhorrent to them if they were to comprehend 
the reality of what they are doing.  If evil were an absolute, you would find 
individuals and groups who consider themselves evil fighting good. 
 
-Original Message-
From: CHARLES RENFRO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing (NHR)


"There is no absolute good or evil, just different means to different ends..."
 
 
Within the above statement lies the problem...good and evil ARE absolutes!!!  
They can only co-exist for a time through "tolerance".  Evil, by it's very 
nature, will deceive through the exploitation of that "tolerance" to gain a 
foothold, then proceed to the next level by becoming intolerant of that same 
good, eventually squashing it, and ultimately winning.  
 
If we do not fight to uphold the good, we will loose to evil.
 
Charles Renfro
 
 
  -original message-

message: 5
date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:00:26 -0400
from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing

What you say makes sense.  There is no absolute good or evil, just 
differen=
t means to different ends, and often both the means and the ends are 
obscur=
ed and misrepresented by one side or the other, or both sides.  Take 
your p=
ick, or make up your own mind, depending on what position you already 
want =
to believe.

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Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing (NHR)

[CHARLES RENFRO]

"There is no absolute good or evil, just different means to different ends..."
 
 
Within the above statement lies the problem...good and evil ARE absolutes!!!  
They can only co-exist for a time through "tolerance".  Evil, by it's very 
nature, will deceive through the exploitation of that "tolerance" to gain a 
foothold, then proceed to the next level by becoming intolerant of that same 
good, eventually squashing it, and ultimately winning.  
 
If we do not fight to uphold the good, we will loose to evil.
 
Charles Renfro
 
 
  -original message-

message: 5
date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:00:26 -0400
from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing

What you say makes sense.  There is no absolute good or evil, just 
differen=
t means to different ends, and often both the means and the ends are 
obscur=
ed and misrepresented by one side or the other, or both sides.  Take 
your p=
ick, or make up your own mind, depending on what position you already 
want =
to believe.

___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at 
http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org

Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing

[billbamberg]

What you say makes sense.  There is no absolute good or evil, just different 
means to different ends, and often both the means and the ends are obscured and 
misrepresented by one side or the other, or both sides.  Take your pick, or 
make up your own mind, depending on what position you already want to believe.
 
Historically, the good guys always win the wars.  Hitler came alarmingly close, 
and he would have been a most 'efficient' good guy.  You're right.  People can 
be made to believe almost anything.  Recruiting suicide bombers with the 
promise of forty young virgins.  I have direct experience with that.  For about 
three years, I had four daughters aged 13 to 19.  That's only ten percent of 
the promise, but I had at least 40 sex crazed guys sneaking around my house.  
The very definition of adolescence is "when all the equipment is very 
functional, except the brain".  From my experience, the reward is quite 
appropriate to the crime.  I hope they only get one bathroom and one phone line.
 
As far as universal ID goes, there are many pro privacy groups relentlessly 
protecting our freedom.  However, you better get rid of your drivers license 
and all forms of bank cards, or any supermarket club cards, because they're all 
already in the system.  Not telling you you're being monitored is the FED's 
idea of privacy.  But just try functioning without them.  They can't arrest you 
for not carrying them, but they can 'detain' you until you can establish your 
identity.  Now think about getting on an airplane with strangers who can't 
establish their identity, especially if they're carrying a strange metal object 
in a weird case, and insisting it fly in the passenger compartment.
 
-Original Message-
From: Hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'The Horn List' 
Sent: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:14:31 +0200
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing


Hello Bill, you said something which is true. But isn´t that
the vision we had in the "Dr.Mabuse" movies of the 1950-ies
??? Or H.G.Wells vision 1986 ??? Total control or near total
control we have today as we all are victims to the use of
e-cards, cell phones, internet, is that much different from
control in totalitarian systems ? Aren´t we just regarded as
ciffres (numbers) on paper instead of human beings ? Aren´t
we just reduced to economic factors ? Part of a manipulable
workingforce or consumerforce ??? Or followerforce ??? 

What is the difference between our system, where any
hear-say-parole becomes a one or two day truth story in the
mass media, where you can be hunted down & jailed jus
because your name sounds different to local names or similar
to some suspect names, and other systems where you will be
jailed if somebody denounces you that your wife got some
education & shows her face to a stranger or where you have
been denounced of listening to "The Voice of America"
perhaps or another "enemy" radio station or even just
watching TV ?? 

I see no difference. Is it all a big deficit in education ?
Has our education (modern on our and antiquated on the other
side)just increased the narrow minded level of understanding
technique but reduced the general knowledge dramatically, so
we believe witches & fortune tellers again 

The same with horn playing: higher, faster, louder, newer,
special equipment instead beautiful tone, beautiful
phrasing, better adapting to the equipment at hand, more
natural playing ? I would recommend (???) the chip
implant, so your (orchestra) employer can track you & get
you off any musical activity outside your employment. I
would enforce that & demand chip implants, which can
stimulate you (hard), to prepare for your job, as I am sure,
they have some chips (in the pocket), which are designed not
only to surveillance your whereabouts but to monitore your
activities. They will be able to monitore your private (!!
night or day) activities, check them about success and
prescribe the appropriate v pills in sufficiant numbers,
to empty your pockets to their own benefits. Nightmares
coming one after the other. The next step will be to control
you by chip & radio command like robots. And we believe this
be a free society ?

And the other side brain wash their people by the so called
religion, to manipulate them to be suicide bombers, by
promising the super pious and chaste plenty of virgins in
paradise. Could it be more pervers  Promising the
paradise to the most desperate is more DANGEROUS than
anything else ! There is no paradise. Life is Life, death is
death. 

=

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:25 AM
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Subject: Re: 

Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing

[Bill Gross]

If nothing else this proves that the West and World of Islam have one thing
in common.  There are people more than willing to corrupt religious teaching
to justify any vile acts that suits their own warped world view.  The US has
more than its fair share of nuts who do this on a daily basis, the KKK and
other white separatists groups come to mind.  It is worth noting that such
perversions don't reside in the white separatist world.  It is probably a
universal failing of mankind.  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David Goldberg
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 11:33 AM
To: The Horn List
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, Hans wrote:

> I would recommend (???) the chip implant,

If that chip contains a metronome, tuner, and the complete recordings of 
Dennis Brain, it might be worthwhile.

> And the other side brain wash their people by the so called religion, to 
> manipulate them to be suicide bombers, by promising the super pious and 
> chaste plenty of virgins in paradise.

It's (only) 72 virgins.  For serious historical perspective on this, see:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,631332,00.html#articl
e_continue

If this URL is too long, Google "72 virgins", and click "I'm feeling 
lucky", as it is the first hit.  Not only a historical, but (verbally) 
graphic explication.


{  David Goldberg:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
 { Ann Arbor Michigan }
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Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing

[David Goldberg]

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, Hans wrote:

> I would recommend (???) the chip implant,

If that chip contains a metronome, tuner, and the complete recordings of 
Dennis Brain, it might be worthwhile.

> And the other side brain wash their people by the so called religion, to 
> manipulate them to be suicide bombers, by promising the super pious and 
> chaste plenty of virgins in paradise.

It's (only) 72 virgins.  For serious historical perspective on this, see:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,631332,00.html#article_continue

If this URL is too long, Google "72 virgins", and click "I'm feeling 
lucky", as it is the first hit.  Not only a historical, but (verbally) 
graphic explication.


{  David Goldberg:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
 { Ann Arbor Michigan }
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Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - in compair with horn playing

[Hans]

Hello Bill, you said something which is true. But isn´t that
the vision we had in the "Dr.Mabuse" movies of the 1950-ies
??? Or H.G.Wells vision 1986 ??? Total control or near total
control we have today as we all are victims to the use of
e-cards, cell phones, internet, is that much different from
control in totalitarian systems ? Aren´t we just regarded as
ciffres (numbers) on paper instead of human beings ? Aren´t
we just reduced to economic factors ? Part of a manipulable
workingforce or consumerforce ??? Or followerforce ??? 

What is the difference between our system, where any
hear-say-parole becomes a one or two day truth story in the
mass media, where you can be hunted down & jailed jus
because your name sounds different to local names or similar
to some suspect names, and other systems where you will be
jailed if somebody denounces you that your wife got some
education & shows her face to a stranger or where you have
been denounced of listening to "The Voice of America"
perhaps or another "enemy" radio station or even just
watching TV ?? 

I see no difference. Is it all a big deficit in education ?
Has our education (modern on our and antiquated on the other
side)just increased the narrow minded level of understanding
technique but reduced the general knowledge dramatically, so
we believe witches & fortune tellers again 

The same with horn playing: higher, faster, louder, newer,
special equipment instead beautiful tone, beautiful
phrasing, better adapting to the equipment at hand, more
natural playing ? I would recommend (???) the chip
implant, so your (orchestra) employer can track you & get
you off any musical activity outside your employment. I
would enforce that & demand chip implants, which can
stimulate you (hard), to prepare for your job, as I am sure,
they have some chips (in the pocket), which are designed not
only to surveillance your whereabouts but to monitore your
activities. They will be able to monitore your private (!!
night or day) activities, check them about success and
prescribe the appropriate v pills in sufficiant numbers,
to empty your pockets to their own benefits. Nightmares
coming one after the other. The next step will be to control
you by chip & radio command like robots. And we believe this
be a free society ?

And the other side brain wash their people by the so called
religion, to manipulate them to be suicide bombers, by
promising the super pious and chaste plenty of virgins in
paradise. Could it be more pervers  Promising the
paradise to the most desperate is more DANGEROUS than
anything else ! There is no paradise. Life is Life, death is
death. 


===


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:25 AM
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - NHR

Again, There is no point in arguing who is good and who is
evil.  Keep it simple, and even I can take a position.  If a
group of people claim to hear their god whispering into
their ear telling them to kill every man, woman, and child
who doesn't conform to their exact beliefs, under their
definitions, these people pose a real threat to the rest of
the population.  A threat equal to that of any homicidal
maniac or sex offender.  They should be prepared to be
hunted down and removed from circulation permanently, under
the rules they have proclaimed.  I have relinquished my
right of personal, individual enforcement, but if the
majority of my fellow citizens feels the need of the duly
elected authorities to take effective, aggressive action, I
support it.  My duty is then to vote in such a way, the
action stays under control.  My only other alternative is to
convert to their beliefs, and hope I can do it convincingly.
 
What I find really scary is our authorities seem more intent
on using this as a scheme to curtail individual freedoms
under the guise of protection.  We're going to prison so the
killers can run free.  Of course, where this is all leading
is to the requirement of a chip implant to track whereabouts
of everyone around any potential target, just like the Bible
says.  Face it, the technology is already mature and being
used every day.  The newer chips in credit cards can be read
from quite a distance, especially as they increase the
detector technology..  If your cell phone can find you, so
can the FEDS.
 
-Original Message-
From: Michael Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 21:49:10 -0700
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] UK attack - NHR


David Goldberg wrote:
 
>
 

Uh, sure Davidand for some background on the totally
discredited McCarthy-ite right wing racist nutcase Daniel
Pipes (should you be interested and concerned),  you might
want to check this out: 
 
http://www.actsofco