RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question
> -Original Message- > From: Jonathan West [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 12:57 PM > To: The Horn List > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question > > > > Jonathan, in all honour, who of the younger players is using hand > > stopping ? If I look around, all use the stopping mute & thus the > > trouble & complications. They never think about the right > use of the > > right hand. They learned it that way. > > Why ? Because they play everything except low g on the > Bb-side, - at > > least here in Europe. > > Hi Hans, > > Well, I'm of the younger generation (at least, I'm a > generation younger than you, I have a good 20 years to go > before retirement) and I was taught handstopping in my > teenage years. I don't own and never have owned a stopping > mute. I never saw the necessity. One more data point from a novice player - I find, whenever I'm unsure of my right hand position inside the bell of the horn, if I make sure I can move from stopped to open, I end up in the right spot. It's become something of a test/warmup for me - if I can't hand stop, then I know my hand isn't in the right spot. -S- > If anybody asks me, I make it clear that handstopping is a > necessary technique to learn if you want to become proficient > on the horn, precisely because pieces like the Bartok make > use of the technique. > > I'm sure you know even better than I do the range of pieces > that make use of handstopping, including quite a few where > rapid changes between stopped and open take place. And that > includes some quite mainstream orchestral pieces. > For instance, if I recall correctly the Polovtsian Dances > from Prince Igor have a passage for horn where you have to > alternate between stopped and open for consecutive notes. > There's no way you can do that with a stopping mute! > > Regards > Jonathan West > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridays computer.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question
> Jonathan, in all honour, who of the younger players is using > hand stopping ? If I look around, all use the stopping mute > & thus the trouble & complications. They never think about > the right use of the right hand. They learned it that way. > Why ? Because they play everything except low g on the > Bb-side, - at least here in Europe. Hi Hans, Well, I'm of the younger generation (at least, I'm a generation younger than you, I have a good 20 years to go before retirement) and I was taught handstopping in my teenage years. I don't own and never have owned a stopping mute. I never saw the necessity. If anybody asks me, I make it clear that handstopping is a necessary technique to learn if you want to become proficient on the horn, precisely because pieces like the Bartok make use of the technique. I'm sure you know even better than I do the range of pieces that make use of handstopping, including quite a few where rapid changes between stopped and open take place. And that includes some quite mainstream orchestral pieces. For instance, if I recall correctly the Polovtsian Dances from Prince Igor have a passage for horn where you have to alternate between stopped and open for consecutive notes. There's no way you can do that with a stopping mute! Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question
Jonathan, in all honour, who of the younger players is using hand stopping ? If I look around, all use the stopping mute & thus the trouble & complications. They never think about the right use of the right hand. They learned it that way. Why ? Because they play everything except low g on the Bb-side, - at least here in Europe. Those who adopted the handhorn as a fun tool or a welcome tool to make some extra money, they have no problems, neither playing on the F-side nor with hand stopping. And they know that hand stopping works well on the F-side only, just with a very few notes on the Bb horn (if they master the intonation problems then) & never on the high F-side, if using a triple or Bb-high F. Who is to be blamed ? The inadequate teachers, teachers with inefficient experience in the professional orchestra - and such teachers are abundant. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan West Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:24 AM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question As Steven said, I'm sure Bartok's intention was that you hand stop alternate bars. Bartok I'm sure knew enough about the horn to know about hand stopping and the effect that can be achieved with rapid changed between stopped and open notes. I'm not familiar with the piece, but can you describe exactly how those bars are notated? Do they say "con sord" and "senza sord" or are the notes on alternate bars marked with a + sign? I rather suspect the latter, in which case Bartok's intention is perfectly clear - he intended the notes to be hand stopped. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question
As Steven said, I'm sure Bartok's intention was that you hand stop alternate bars. Bartok I'm sure knew enough about the horn to know about hand stopping and the effect that can be achieved with rapid changed between stopped and open notes. I'm not familiar with the piece, but can you describe exactly how those bars are notated? Do they say "con sord" and "senza sord" or are the notes on alternate bars marked with a + sign? I rather suspect the latter, in which case Bartok's intention is perfectly clear - he intended the notes to be hand stopped. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Bartok question
Hand stop. Steven Ovitsky == Often, the horn has running eighth notes and has to insert and remove a mute every other measure without any rest. I am finding it difficult if not impossible to insert & remove a mute at that tempo. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with the piece and can tell me how they have handled it in performance. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Leslie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sotone%40cybermesa.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
