Re: [Hornlist] Pedagogical tools (was Mouthpiece buzzing)
On 09/08/07, Johnson, Timothy A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jonathan, > > I did not intend to imply that Reba was a beginning or unprofessional > player. That is why I changed the subject line and omitted her original > comments that prompted the new thread. I was responding to your comment > that buzzing had little value. As others have supplied better > articulated support for a similar position such as held by Arnold > Jacobs, I'll leave it at that. I did point out a number of cases where buzzing was useful - practicing, where your horn is unavailable, and for diagnostic purposes in lessons. I've not yet had a chance to look up Wendell's links on the subject, but I will, and comment more after that. All I can say is that my experience has not given me reason to need to buzz in circumstances other than those I have described. As far as I can see, The key point if you want to devise a new teaching technique is first to define the "learning intention". In other words, what are you trying to get the student to achieve with the lesson? Now, it is quite probable that Arnold Jacobs and others did have a specific learning intention in mind with their buzzing exercises, and some people here have mentioned what those learning intentions might be. I suspect others have simply been told that buzzing is a good idea and so do it because they were told to, and in turn tell their pupils to, without there being any understanding as to why. > > This does, however, lead me to wonder about some of the pedagogical > tools that are used without necessarily understanding why or when they > may no longer be useful ( I am certainly not referring to anyone on this > list). Thus, if Arnold Jacobs recommended buzzing a particular song and > that got passed along without his rationale, it may be that it has taken > on the status of a totem. Perhaps its value does not require full > comprehension, but I suspect that it will be more valuable if > understood. An awful lot of teaching practice (and not just on the horn, this is in education generally) is based on somebody trying something, finding it works for them, and the idea getting passed from hand to hand, often without anybody really analysing matters closely. Education is still much more of an art than a science, and it is my opinion that it will remain so until we can usually answer the question "How can you know that what you are doing is right?". At present, we susually don't know, and are working with our best guess, on the basis that it is probably better than our second-best guess. > > I'll give another example. I was at a middle school concert not too > long ago, and it sounded like there was a 50 member percussion section. > Nearly all the players were dutifully tapping (some almost stomping) > their right foot, just as their teacher told them to. My sons were > taught, as I was taught, to tap a foot in order to internalize the beat. > At what point does one instruct students to break that habit? I never > was. I play in the Minnesota State Band; we had one recording session > ruined because someone was heavily tapping a foot and it was picked up > by the recording equipment. I would regard that as exceedingly bad teaching. If you are wanting to play together, you have to listen to each other and watch the conductor to ensure that you are all in time together. I would actively discourage foot-tapping while playing, since it gives you a false sense of security in terms of your belief that you are in time with anything other than your foot. If you looked carefully during the middle school concert, you may have noticed that the feet weren't quite all in time with each other! If a student can manage to internalize the beat without foot tapping, then that should be done, in order to avoid bad habits getting established in the first place. There are plenty of techniques available for helpring with that, some involving using a metronome, others without. If some physical movement is found to be absolutely necessary, let be a movement of the pupil's toes *inside* their shoe! > > How about tuning one's horn to concert B flat (just because that is what > the band always tunes to)? Tuning to a Bb is a pretty good idea. In one of the community orchestras I play in, the oboe does give a tuning Bb to the brass before giving an A to the rest of the orchestra. On the F side, a concert A is not a very good note to tune to, because the open E tends to be a bit on the flat side. Provided your valves are properly in tune (and once they are, they should rarely if ever need adjusting) tuning to a concert Bb by playing F open on the Bb side or with 1 on the F side will probably give you better results. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Pedagogical tools (was Mouthpiece buzzing)
The most I ever buzzed in my life was when I was teaching a bunch of beginners..I buzzed with them all the time...but now I don't teach any beginners...so now I never buzzz :( On 8/8/07, Johnson, Timothy A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Jonathan, > > I did not intend to imply that Reba was a beginning or unprofessional > player. That is why I changed the subject line and omitted her original > comments that prompted the new thread. I was responding to your comment > that buzzing had little value. As others have supplied better > articulated support for a similar position such as held by Arnold > Jacobs, I'll leave it at that. > > This does, however, lead me to wonder about some of the pedagogical > tools that are used without necessarily understanding why or when they > may no longer be useful ( I am certainly not referring to anyone on this > list). Thus, if Arnold Jacobs recommended buzzing a particular song and > that got passed along without his rationale, it may be that it has taken > on the status of a totem. Perhaps its value does not require full > comprehension, but I suspect that it will be more valuable if > understood. > > I'll give another example. I was at a middle school concert not too > long ago, and it sounded like there was a 50 member percussion section. > Nearly all the players were dutifully tapping (some almost stomping) > their right foot, just as their teacher told them to. My sons were > taught, as I was taught, to tap a foot in order to internalize the beat. > At what point does one instruct students to break that habit? I never > was. I play in the Minnesota State Band; we had one recording session > ruined because someone was heavily tapping a foot and it was picked up > by the recording equipment. > > How about tuning one's horn to concert B flat (just because that is what > the band always tunes to)? > > Are there any others out there? > > Timothy A. Johnson > > -Original Message- > From: Jonathan West > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:11 PM > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece buzzing > > Hi Timothy > > Reba by all accounts is a fairly advanced player - she had a > professional position in an army band. ... Therefore your point with > regard to younger players is probably not applicable to her. > ... > Regards > Jonathan West > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sallym.of.mclaurin%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Pedagogical tools (was Mouthpiece buzzing)
Hi Jonathan, I did not intend to imply that Reba was a beginning or unprofessional player. That is why I changed the subject line and omitted her original comments that prompted the new thread. I was responding to your comment that buzzing had little value. As others have supplied better articulated support for a similar position such as held by Arnold Jacobs, I'll leave it at that. This does, however, lead me to wonder about some of the pedagogical tools that are used without necessarily understanding why or when they may no longer be useful ( I am certainly not referring to anyone on this list). Thus, if Arnold Jacobs recommended buzzing a particular song and that got passed along without his rationale, it may be that it has taken on the status of a totem. Perhaps its value does not require full comprehension, but I suspect that it will be more valuable if understood. I'll give another example. I was at a middle school concert not too long ago, and it sounded like there was a 50 member percussion section. Nearly all the players were dutifully tapping (some almost stomping) their right foot, just as their teacher told them to. My sons were taught, as I was taught, to tap a foot in order to internalize the beat. At what point does one instruct students to break that habit? I never was. I play in the Minnesota State Band; we had one recording session ruined because someone was heavily tapping a foot and it was picked up by the recording equipment. How about tuning one's horn to concert B flat (just because that is what the band always tunes to)? Are there any others out there? Timothy A. Johnson -Original Message- From: Jonathan West Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:11 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece buzzing Hi Timothy Reba by all accounts is a fairly advanced player - she had a professional position in an army band. ... Therefore your point with regard to younger players is probably not applicable to her. ... Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
