RE: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn?
Question for Hans regarding bad horns, it was "common knowledge" that a batch of Sansone horns would probably meet the criteria of "bad horn." Supposedly these horns were mass produced for the US military in the 1940s. Is this just a "horn urban legend?" -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hans.Pizka Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:34 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn? Why still keeping these junk horns or horn ruins ? Convert them to lamps instead playing them. There are no really bad horns, but a majority of weak players. Their weakness starts with their negligence to principles of playing & maintaining their instruments or setting them in proper playing conditions. Why are they out of tune many times ? Because the valve slides are not set properly but shoved in as much as possible. Why are they too sharp & too pinchy in tone ? Because the player use a very thin bore mouth piece as they have their problems with notes exceeding written e2 or f2. How to help ? Using a regular mouth piece with a 4.3 - 5 mms bore, not forcing the high register, not playing loud all the time. Gaining high register by playing low notes right. Why is the attack so difficult ? Because players croach into the mouthpiece with their upper AND lower lip so to block the hole in the middle. Understood. Then they have to push a lot of air & very hard, to open the HOLE in the middle. This results in the PLOP at the beginning of the sound they produce & name tone, but it is rather a fart (in the positive sense, as it is produced in a similar way). And the attack becomes more difficult, if the players use trumpetlike rims on their mouthpieces instead of smaller rims, which hurt if the pressure exceeds the normal pressure. Why do they press too much ? Because they do not practise enough or in improper way. They often practise things they do not need as they work anyway. So they waste time & embouchure strength, much needed to practice things they cannot do well yet. It is a brain matter. But they like to please themselves by playing the same things again & again, which they can do well anyway. If any player, good or less good, advanced or beginner, tries to explore the horn first with the natural harmonics playing softly, and listen where the pitches are & how they are, if they try first to play soft & slow things to get used to the instrument, they can play in a decent manner on ANY horn. Well, leakness is another matter, a technical matter, which cannot be calculated here. I speak about ANY horn in a decent condition. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:08 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn? In a message dated 3/4/06 1:00:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bill Gross writes: > Not sure of your point here. The implication is that if not all F > horns are good, B flat horns might be. Could you clarify it? > Nope, just that there are a lot of crummy F horns out there that even Hans couldn't play, well maybe HE could but nobody else could. Get a good F horn and make music! - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn?
Why still keeping these junk horns or horn ruins ? Convert them to lamps instead playing them. There are no really bad horns, but a majority of weak players. Their weakness starts with their negligence to principles of playing & maintaining their instruments or setting them in proper playing conditions. Why are they out of tune many times ? Because the valve slides are not set properly but shoved in as much as possible. Why are they too sharp & too pinchy in tone ? Because the player use a very thin bore mouth piece as they have their problems with notes exceeding written e2 or f2. How to help ? Using a regular mouth piece with a 4.3 - 5 mms bore, not forcing the high register, not playing loud all the time. Gaining high register by playing low notes right. Why is the attack so difficult ? Because players croach into the mouthpiece with their upper AND lower lip so to block the hole in the middle. Understood. Then they have to push a lot of air & very hard, to open the HOLE in the middle. This results in the PLOP at the beginning of the sound they produce & name tone, but it is rather a fart (in the positive sense, as it is produced in a similar way). And the attack becomes more difficult, if the players use trumpetlike rims on their mouthpieces instead of smaller rims, which hurt if the pressure exceeds the normal pressure. Why do they press too much ? Because they do not practise enough or in improper way. They often practise things they do not need as they work anyway. So they waste time & embouchure strength, much needed to practice things they cannot do well yet. It is a brain matter. But they like to please themselves by playing the same things again & again, which they can do well anyway. If any player, good or less good, advanced or beginner, tries to explore the horn first with the natural harmonics playing softly, and listen where the pitches are & how they are, if they try first to play soft & slow things to get used to the instrument, they can play in a decent manner on ANY horn. Well, leakness is another matter, a technical matter, which cannot be calculated here. I speak about ANY horn in a decent condition. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:08 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn? In a message dated 3/4/06 1:00:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bill Gross writes: > Not sure of your point here. The implication is that if not all F > horns are good, B flat horns might be. Could you clarify it? > Nope, just that there are a lot of crummy F horns out there that even Hans couldn't play, well maybe HE could but nobody else could. Get a good F horn and make music! - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn?
Then the schools (budget for schools is better then for the war machine !!!) or/and the parents must invest some more money, if they want a decent school band, if they want their kids playing a decent instrument. Cadgers have become abundant - wanting the best for free (instruments, lessons). == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 1:43 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn? Maybe stating the obvious, but it probably doesn't help to start on an F horn if it's not a decent instrument. There are an awful lot of basically unplayable F horns out there in the schools and on eBay. I'm with Carberg, a nice 4D is a good thing but there are plenty of them out there that are just plumb wore out, if they were any good to start with. When were the last 4Ds made? 1970 I think. Even if it's shiny and looks good that doesn't necessarily mean it will play good. Many unfortunate things can happen in the repair shop over the course of 36 years or so. I guess my point is that all the lofty goals such as experiencing the pure F horn sound, etc. kinda fall by the wayside if you're trying to experience it on a lemon of a horn. Reminds me of a quote I once saw that I think came from Phil Farkas: "It ceases to be espressivo if you miss most of the notes". - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn?
Not sure of your point here. The implication is that if not all F horns are good, B flat horns might be. Could you clarify it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 6:43 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: start off on an F horn? Maybe stating the obvious, but it probably doesn't help to start on an F horn if it's not a decent instrument. There are an awful lot of basically unplayable F horns out there in the schools and on eBay. I'm with Carberg, a nice 4D is a good thing but there are plenty of them out there that are just plumb wore out, if they were any good to start with. When were the last 4Ds made? 1970 I think. Even if it's shiny and looks good that doesn't necessarily mean it will play good. Many unfortunate things can happen in the repair shop over the course of 36 years or so. I guess my point is that all the lofty goals such as experiencing the pure F horn sound, etc. kinda fall by the wayside if you're trying to experience it on a lemon of a horn. Reminds me of a quote I once saw that I think came from Phil Farkas: "It ceases to be espressivo if you miss most of the notes". - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
